Tier 0 and High 1-A+ Question - Mod/Admin Needed

[FreezerMonkey]

Tier 0 on our wiki is currently described as such:

They not only encompass the collection of all possible "qualities" represented by High 1-A+, but also exceed it utterly, existing beyond any and all distinctions between ontologies and any division between objects.

This ultimately begs the question. Is it necessary for a verse to have a High 1-A+ structure/entity for a tier 0 to exist in that verse, or nah? I'm of the opinion of the latter, considering the Force(Legends) is still at tier 0.

 

[Mythic381]

Is it necessary for a verse to have a High 1-A+ structure/entity for a tier 0 to exist in that verse, or nah? I'm of the opinion of the latter, considering the Force(Legends) is still at tier 0.

I'm not a mod. You can wait for one to comment, but I can give an answer.

It is not necessary. You can technically gain Tier 0 via transcending a High 1-A+ structure, as Ultima mentioned:

Due to the nature of how it works, High 1-A+ has similar properties to Tier 0, in a way. For instance, all characters in that tier are exactly equal. You can't really be above the collection of all possibilities and yet be, yourself, one of those possibilities, as that'd be an obvious contradiction. So ultimately, transcending a High 1-A+ means you're Tier 0, and if you supposedly do that while also displaying traits very unlike those of a Tier 0, then the thing you transcended was just never High 1-A+ to begin with.

Tier 0 is ultimately independent of cosmology, so no you do not need a High 1-A+ structure to scale to tier 0.

You can check something like The White Light :

• No manifestation or avatar that is High 1-A+
• No characters in the verse page who are High 1-A+
• No structure which is High 1-A+

I also recall that Marvel doesn't have a character or cosmological structure (from a quick search in the cosmology page) which is High 1-A+.

 

[FreezerMonkey]

I'm not a mod. You can wait for one to comment, but I can give an answer.

It is not necessary. You can technically gain Tier 0 via transcending a High 1-A+ structure, as Ultima mentioned:

Tier 0 is ultimately independent of cosmology, so no you do not need a High 1-A+ structure to scale to tier 0.

You can check something like The White Light :

• No manifestation or avatar that is High 1-A+
• No characters in the verse page who are High 1-A+
• No structure which is High 1-A+

I also recall that Marvel doesn't have a character or cosmological structure (from a quick search in the cosmology page) which is High 1-A+.

I appreciate the response. I agree, but would like a mod to confirm. The guy I'm arguing with likely won't accept anything else

 

[Mythic381]

I appreciate the response. I agree, but would like a mod to confirm. The guy I'm arguing with likely won't accept anything else

Fairs. I unironically did that twice.

Here and here.

 

[FreezerMonkey]

Fairs. I unironically did that twice.

Here and here.

Ah well. We'll see.

 

[TheTenno07]

I'm not a mod. You can wait for one to comment, but I can give an answer.

It is not necessary. You can technically gain Tier 0 via transcending a High 1-A+ structure, as Ultima mentioned:

Tier 0 is ultimately independent of cosmology, so no you do not need a High 1-A+ structure to scale to tier 0.

You can check something like The White Light :

• No manifestation or avatar that is High 1-A+
• No characters in the verse page who are High 1-A+
• No structure which is High 1-A+

I also recall that Marvel doesn't have a character or cosmological structure (from a quick search in the cosmology page) which is High 1-A+.

Marvel does!

 

[Mythic381]

Marvel does!

Not sure why that isn't mentioned in the tier sections but ok