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Mind grabbing the quote that says the three had yet to become Einherjar in Interview?Yamatoryujin said:
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Three commanders revision
- Thread starter Yamatoryujin
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- shinza banshou
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- #42
They became Einherjar after the ritual in the prolouge of Dies Irae. All the characters mention how much stronger that they have gotten and I recall some were surpised that they would so willingly give their souls to Reinhard (iirc this was from Liza). I'm sure there's another screen in Ikabey If you'll give me a few minutes I'll grab it for you as well.
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That's correct. Ougon Rensei in Berlin made Kemono-dono stronger so... it is likely they also were made stronger. Riza, upon seeing a shade of Samiel working at less than 50% notes she's more powerful than she was at Berlin.Yamatoryujin said:
However, there are holes in your theory. For one, the Prologue does basically state the three of them were already part of the castle. Upon seeing Schreiber, his former subordinates confirm he was MIA. Machina, I don't need to explain. Then you have Beatrice and Eleonore's conversation, which implies she did become part of Kemono-dono's Valhalla prior to him leaving the world.
Furthermore, even if they didn't know of their power post Berlin... they are still scared shitless of those three. Even Kei, who's a newbie who didn't meet them in person, knows of their power. Them being "close to the others till Berlin" is bullshit. During IKaBey they were still portrayed as being MUCH superior.
EDIT: That's a scan I didn't remember. Bey's state during the fight is that of an Einherjar, yes, but keep in mind he was temporarily made into one just to fight off Lui. So far, I don't think the Commanders in Dies were boosted in the same way.
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I didn't mean to suggest they were closer to the others, there's a reason why Bey held his own against Machina and Schreiber during the free for all, they were in Gladsheimr. But yes, the whole point in that was to state that they were much weaker than they were in DI. I quickly had another look through the prolouge and you're right. I'll chalk that up to poor reading comprehension, sorry for wasting most of your and EMC's time with the whole "they were not Einherjar at the time" angle. Though I still stand by the idea that they should be scaled to Wilhelm, the fact that Ikabey was a year prior to the ritual in Berlin, they should be much stronger than what Wilhelm showed. Though I do want to preface this by saying it's been a while since I've read both works and had to skim through Ludwig vs the L.D.O. Eleonore even thought that she had a chance to do something but she held back since it would have probably resulted in the death of some of the other members and it was still a gamble nonetheless. Schreiber couldn't do much as raming into Meth with his Briah + Yietzrah had no effect on him.
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Re-reading the Lui vs LDO fight and I'm inclined to agree with Trex. The statements of infinite soul supplementation are true for Einherjar, however that alone can't explain why he could actually damage and fight him on even grounds. The only thing that could make sense to me is that when Wilhelm states that he has far surpassed his limit, he might also be referring to his vessel's capacity being unlimited as well as. Iirc His vessel could only hold 8000 souls, even if he put his entire stock into a single attack like the other Einherjar do, his damage output would be vastly inferior. Though the Wolfgang running out of souls weakness should be removed, that much I'm certain of. Schrieber's vessal can hold 181,000, so he can put that entire amount behind a single attack and have it instantly replenished by Gladsheimr. Reinhard's vessal has an unlimited capacity.
Edit - Nope vessel is still the same https://imgur.com/a/pFIUOqI. I don't get this. Is it Wilhelm's nature? Was it becuase he activated his Yietzrah from the inside? it's a mess.
Edit - Nope vessel is still the same https://imgur.com/a/pFIUOqI. I don't get this. Is it Wilhelm's nature? Was it becuase he activated his Yietzrah from the inside? it's a mess.
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Probs because of how his Yetzirah was used
Meth previously sucked Claudia blood which the latter sucked too from Wilhelm after his fight with Machina and Wolfgang IIRC.
Hence why he harmed him
Still Wilhelm did smash the jaws of Methuselah which are composed of 100 night. And other stuff.
Meth previously sucked Claudia blood which the latter sucked too from Wilhelm after his fight with Machina and Wolfgang IIRC.
Hence why he harmed him
Still Wilhelm did smash the jaws of Methuselah which are composed of 100 night. And other stuff.
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- #48
Yeah that was the titular "Kiss in the Dark", but yeah on my second reading boosted Wilhelm by all counts should be weaker than the Three Commanders, Machnia would have one punched him, Eleonore had a chance to take him down but didn't go through with it since it would have been "uncouth" of her to blast her comrades along with him. Schreiber is the only one who lets the trio down, he smashes into him with his fake Briah Yetzriah combo and Lui doesn't even move an inch or feel a thing. Maybe striking him from the inside bypasses his mystery as he's dealing direct damage to the undead body of Ludwig?ALRF said:
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That still requires piercing through the mystery "outside". Far as I know, Mystery isn't just some layer on his body. It literally IS his body.Yamatoryujin said:
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Bump. We need to sort this out, at least Wolfgang's weakness since that costed him matches in the past and could end up continuing unless we sort it out. I'm doubling down, boosted Wilhelm is weaker than the three commanders, only reason he won was because of Claudia's "Kiss in the Dark". He even said that was what marked his victory. "Doesn't matter if you're a human, demon, or even a god, when you go poking around their insides it doesn't matter what type of monster they are, you can beat them down".
Also, good thing I decided to re-read the fight. Wilhelm wasn't actually capable of directly harming Lui during their fight, it consisted of Bey literally hurling insults at him whilst he destroyed his Jaws of Darkness composed of hundreds of nights and having his body torn apart by Lui's stakes (which he instantly healed from of course). It wasn't until he used his Yietzrah that he could actually hurt Lui. If I had to give a reason more eloquent than Wilhelm's it's probably due to directly attack Ludwig's corpse which acts as a puppet for Meth. That can also explain why Wolfgang, who has a vessel which can hold at least 20x more souls than Wilhelm, and theorticaly can dish out that difference in terms of attack power.
https://imgur.com/a/F8cyft8
Also, good thing I decided to re-read the fight. Wilhelm wasn't actually capable of directly harming Lui during their fight, it consisted of Bey literally hurling insults at him whilst he destroyed his Jaws of Darkness composed of hundreds of nights and having his body torn apart by Lui's stakes (which he instantly healed from of course). It wasn't until he used his Yietzrah that he could actually hurt Lui. If I had to give a reason more eloquent than Wilhelm's it's probably due to directly attack Ludwig's corpse which acts as a puppet for Meth. That can also explain why Wolfgang, who has a vessel which can hold at least 20x more souls than Wilhelm, and theorticaly can dish out that difference in terms of attack power.
https://imgur.com/a/F8cyft8
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could you explain the kiss in the dark thing?
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oh wow lolz that has gotta sting
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That still requires piercing through the mystery "outside". Far as I know, Mystery isn't just some layer on his body. It literally IS his body.
Whoops forgot to respond to this. The thing is that his body isn't actually his, it's the body of a Ludwig van Rosenkranz, whom he killed and took over, taking all of his memories and experiences and impersonating him. It kind of serves as a hub for all of his mystery, as Methuselah's true form is just all the darkness in the world. I assume it works that way since when Reinhard threw his spear, all that remained was the corpse of Ludwig, which Methuselah was still occupying, despite him losing all his mystery. By impaling him from within he did damage to the host, before we actually get to see anymore Reinhard just throws his spear.ÒÇÇ
Whoops forgot to respond to this. The thing is that his body isn't actually his, it's the body of a Ludwig van Rosenkranz, whom he killed and took over, taking all of his memories and experiences and impersonating him. It kind of serves as a hub for all of his mystery, as Methuselah's true form is just all the darkness in the world. I assume it works that way since when Reinhard threw his spear, all that remained was the corpse of Ludwig, which Methuselah was still occupying, despite him losing all his mystery. By impaling him from within he did damage to the host, before we actually get to see anymore Reinhard just throws his spear.ÒÇÇ
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Got it. Thanks
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- #57
Bump
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it will be your way of life ovo
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I recall you bumping your threads and thought to myself "there's no way things can be that slow". I was wrong. When I get home I might look for the scans that say Claudia's hadou territory could cover the entire world. Unless you want to go for that ALRF. May as well get all Ikabey shit sorted whilst we're here.
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- #62
Ah yes, yellow boy. Thanks for that.
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Oh yeah, about Gladsheimr range.
Shouldn't that be more than just multiversal? (2-B)
It exists outside The Throne rule due to its singularity nature among many other things.
It's also capable of interacting with the world despite being in another dimension iirc
Shouldn't that be more than just multiversal? (2-B)
It exists outside The Throne rule due to its singularity nature among many other things.
It's also capable of interacting with the world despite being in another dimension iirc
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it should be since it was disconnected from merc's entire rule
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I still really want proof that it can be used as a launch pad and affect anywhere in the multiverse, considering that it could only enter and exit the world with a big magic ritual and a point in one of the final routes was that if Ren and Shirou just left the city, the LDO would be trapped there.
It might exist outside the Throne, but it's still only got one way in and out
It might exist outside the Throne, but it's still only got one way in and out
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"þÅ¥õ©ûÒüºÞüûµºìÕìüõ©ëÚ¿ÄÕú½ÕøúÒü«µ£¼µïáÕ£░Òü¿ÒüòÒéîÒüªÒüäÒüƒÕƒÄÒüºÒüéÒéèÒÇüþÅ¥Õ£¿Òü»Òâ®ÒéñÒâ│ÒâÅÒâ½ÒâêÒü«þê¬þëÖÒüºÒüéÒéïÚ½æÚ½ÅÒüºµºïµêÉÒüòÒéîÒüƒÕÉÿÒü«ÕåàÚâ¿ÒéƵîüÒüñÕƒÄÒüîÕëÁÚÇáÒüòÒéîÒüªÒüäÒéïÒÇéÕëÁÚÇáÕÉìÒüïÒéëÒüØÒü«Òü¥Òü¥Òé░Òâ®Òé║ÒâÿÒéñÒâáÒÇüÒü¥ÒüƒÒü»Òâ┤ÒéíÒâ½ÒâÅÒâ®Òü¿Õæ╝Òü░ÒéîÒéïÒüôÒü¿ÒééÒüéÒéïÒÇéõ©ûþòîµ│òÕëçÒüïÒéëÕêçÒéèÚøóÒüòÒéîÒüƒþ®║ÚûôÒü»ÞÀØÚøóÒü¿Õ║ºµ¿ÖÒü«µªéÕ┐ÁÒéÆþá┤ÕúèÒüùÒÇüÞ│çµá╝Òü«Òü¬ÒüäÞÇàÒü»þÖ¥Õ╣┤ÚáæÕ╝ÁÒüúÒüªÒééÕàÑÒéïÒü®ÒüôÒéìÒüïÞ┐æÒüÑÒüÅÒüôÒü¿ÒüòÒüêÕç║µØÑÒü¬ÒüäÒüîÒÇüÚÇåÒü½µïøÒüïÒéîÒéîÒü░õ©ûþòîõ©¡Òü«õ¢òÕçªÒüïÒéëÒüáÒéìÒüåÒü¿ÕàÑÒéîÒéïÒÇé "
Won't go in details. But due to its Singularity nature from the world law (Mercurius and therefore Throne), it "destroys" the concept of distance and coordinates and can freely go anywhere it wants in the multiverse
Won't go in details. But due to its Singularity nature from the world law (Mercurius and therefore Throne), it "destroys" the concept of distance and coordinates and can freely go anywhere it wants in the multiverse
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I got a shitty translation from Dr Google, but I got the gist of it.
Can't get in no matter how hard you try even if you travel for a hundred years, but if you're invited ("invited") in, you get pulled in from anywhere in the world. I assume that "world" here means anywhere within Merc's domain / the Throne.
However, that still only says they can get invited in from anywhere in the world. It doesn't say you can get out anywhere.
Maybe I would understand this a bit better if I understood what was the point of Reinhard leaving the world and hanging out in valhalla for a few decades just to try and get back in later.
Can't get in no matter how hard you try even if you travel for a hundred years, but if you're invited ("invited") in, you get pulled in from anywhere in the world. I assume that "world" here means anywhere within Merc's domain / the Throne.
However, that still only says they can get invited in from anywhere in the world. It doesn't say you can get out anywhere.
Maybe I would understand this a bit better if I understood what was the point of Reinhard leaving the world and hanging out in valhalla for a few decades just to try and get back in later.
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But there's nothing on going anywhere, just inviting people in from anywhere.
Was more thinking of the restrictions on it, like how they could only come in the city
Was more thinking of the restrictions on it, like how they could only come in the city
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The Berlin ritual was to innact the arc of the covenant iirc, that was to put Issak at the core of Reinhard's castle and allowing it to take permeant form. Prior to the ritual he could keep his briah up for three months, where other hadou briahs would last a few minutes. This was all to prep him for emanation. It was a roundabout way to do it as Merc wanted everything to go according to his script, he never wanted Reinhard to attain "True-godhood", not in the same sense as say Rea's route. The Swastikas' opening allowed for him to remanifest his castle back under the scope of Mercurius' mandala.
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