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Third Match betwen Geralt and Wolf (Sekiro)
- Thread starter M3X_2.0
- Start date
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You can add tags to your VS threads like we did on the old forum, by the way.
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How many tags at max?
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Not sure, actually, although from what I understand you're no longer limited to four.
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Geralt won last time we held this due to axii hax.He should still take this.
voting old man
voting old man
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Well that isn’t the only reason either,Geralt is far more versatile then him as well.
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Doesn't the argument assume that Axii can't be resisted?
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What feats does Wolf have that suggest he can resist Axii?
Might be best to wait for Ovens/Abstractions to continue their arguments on the match, though.
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The official Witcher game guides mention that strong-willed people can resist Axii, in gameplay higher level human enemies can resist Axii, in a W3 cutscene a grunt managed to snap out of Axii. I'd say Wolf has more will power than generic bandits and guards. Is it enough? That's up to debate.
IC Geralt is also unlikely to open with Axii in a duel against a swordsman. So the fight needs to get prolonged or Geralt should witness Wolf resurrecting first.
IC Geralt is also unlikely to open with Axii in a duel against a swordsman. So the fight needs to get prolonged or Geralt should witness Wolf resurrecting first.
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given wolf's circumstances and what he goes through I don't think it's a stretch to say he's got decently strong willpower, probably enough to resist axii given random thugs can do this. also are we giving wolf the mortal blade and all his arts here?
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That's a very vague and contradicting thing, you can mess up the minds of characters like Vesemir and Dettlaff in game. Probably an in-verse only thing.
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What's shown in the cutscenes/story takes priority over gameplay elements if a contradiction is present.
If Axii is shown in cutscenes to be stopped by strong willpower it's fair to say it won't work too well on Wolf.
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Muddling Vesemir's mind is canon. It's literally in the tutorial.
Anyone who wasn't sleeping while reading/playing the series knows who Vesemir is so I won't go into details, it's contradicted in canon. Geralt can even use Axii on himself (which was in Tower of the Swallow). So yeah, I'm pretty sure it's in-game shit that just prevents you from Axii'ng your way through anything on your path.
Anyone who wasn't sleeping while reading/playing the series knows who Vesemir is so I won't go into details, it's contradicted in canon. Geralt can even use Axii on himself (which was in Tower of the Swallow). So yeah, I'm pretty sure it's in-game shit that just prevents you from Axii'ng your way through anything on your path.
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What’s the mindhax potency for Axii tho?
does it just bypass basic resistances or?
does it just bypass basic resistances or?
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At very least 2 people. Geralt in Novigrad could mindhax two dudes at once. Can't find this on YT, but I could record it sometime.
I don't know about the gameplay. In "The Last Wish" ("Witcher" substory) he used Axii on few guards but was it few at once? I don't know. There could be more feats of Axii potency but maybe it is on level of Philippa who could mindhax 4 dudes.
I don't know about the gameplay. In "The Last Wish" ("Witcher" substory) he used Axii on few guards but was it few at once? I don't know. There could be more feats of Axii potency but maybe it is on level of Philippa who could mindhax 4 dudes.
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We discussed this off-site but this wouldn't be a contradiction with willpower giving a resistance to Axii, since that assumes that the character isn't a willing participant of the mindhax. Geralt wanted Axii to have an effect on him so he wasn't fighting it.
This is a big point against willpower = resistance to Axii, though. Saying Vesemir doesn't have more strength of will than random muggles would be pretty stupid, and if he was genuinely trying to fight off Axii right then and there that's pretty much a large nail in the coffin for that argument.
However, context can help us interpret the scene in a way that makes both ideas (Axii had an effect on Vesemir, and Axii is ineffective against characters with strong wills) compatible. This was a non-serious sparring session between Vesemir and Geralt - not a life-or-death altercation; and it could be said that he would have reacted to the use of Axii a lot differently if someone tried it on him while he was in his last fight against the Wild Hunt. There wouldn't be much of a point in letting Geralt train with his signs if one of them was rendered completely ineffective by Vesemir's strength of will. So I feel like there's an argument here that Vesemir let Geralt muddle his mind, or at least that he wasn't in a state of mind during the fight that would make him more liable to resist Axii (he fully trusts Geralt, and there's nothing at stake in the fight).
Not to mention that even if we disregard the above, it's still a bit much to say that objective explanations of Axii are incorrect because of a single instance in a tutorial fight - that could be an exception to the rule rather than a trend that says the rule doesn't exist.
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Actually, we never saw a character resisting Axii with will power. Nothing that Shadow posted prove that. In the video he posted, Geralt used Axii then the NPC immediately made his partner regain consciousness, it has nothing to do with will power. Also, this is also bullshit. Axii worked even when people tried to broke it, like when Lambert used and made a dude to kill his friend, and even he couldn't broke Axii's effect just by telling his friend to wake up.
And even in gameplay, all sigs are consistently portrayed, like you can't mindhax some Monsters because they simply resist Axii, Yrden sometimes doesn't slow the opponents, because they resist. Igni doesn't work against some Golemd, because they resist. Its how the game works
And even in gameplay, all sigs are consistently portrayed, like you can't mindhax some Monsters because they simply resist Axii, Yrden sometimes doesn't slow the opponents, because they resist. Igni doesn't work against some Golemd, because they resist. Its how the game works
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Non-serious, but Geralt can't reduce the power of his Sign and you could see Vesemir visibly fighting off Axii as it hit him. It was only sparring session but I really don't think Vesemir was feeling endangered by Geralt using Axii on him so he probably just tried to resist it because he doesn't like the effects it takes on his head. Witchers have enhanced mind and greater strength of will/balls than average people, not to mention a Witcher that was living for around 400 years.
Witchers do resist full Axii mind control, but they are not resisting the quick stun version that "muddle your mind" (they have mind resistance after all, even if there were people like Triss who could mindhax Geralt, but their hax is simply too strong I guess), gameplay example but Axii works on most if not all Witchers you encounter in the series IIRC.
You could also make an argument that "Axii doesn't work on average folk because you need to improve it in Witcher 3 for it to actually work on them", but I think that's all just a game mechanic, same with the will thing. My opinion is that it's simply just made for gameplay so you couldn't Axii everyone you meet.
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There is actually a cutscene where Geralt uses Axii on five people.
But the DLC has an anti-feat where Geralt is incapable of using Axii on three people at the same time.
Signs are the lowest level of magic spells and are consider small tricks by mages, so not comparable to what Philippa or other mages can do.
Axii being resistible by will power, as the official game guides state, is the best explanation for the variety in showing. It is very possible that Vesemir was not intending to seriously resist Axii in order to provide a demonstration.
The NPC in the cutscene was looking down as if he is dazed. He was not looking at his partner, nor at Geralt. You can argue that this is bad face-animation by CDPR, but the in-universe explanation is readily available - that he woke up from an Axii daze.
But the DLC has an anti-feat where Geralt is incapable of using Axii on three people at the same time.
Signs are the lowest level of magic spells and are consider small tricks by mages, so not comparable to what Philippa or other mages can do.
Axii being resistible by will power, as the official game guides state, is the best explanation for the variety in showing. It is very possible that Vesemir was not intending to seriously resist Axii in order to provide a demonstration.
The NPC in the cutscene was looking down as if he is dazed. He was not looking at his partner, nor at Geralt. You can argue that this is bad face-animation by CDPR, but the in-universe explanation is readily available - that he woke up from an Axii daze.
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I don't think I said Geralt reduced the power of his sign? And I'm not sure what specifically indicates Vesemir is trying to fight off the effects of Axii at least in a fully serious sense. And yeah, Vesemir wasn't endangered in his fight with Geralt, nor were there anything at stake in the fight, and he trusts Geralt, so he's not going to seriously try resisting Axii in the same way that he would if, say Ciri's life was endangered.
And not denying Witchers have balls of steel. Like I said earlier saying Vessemir has less willpower than a muggle would be stupid. However I think it's fair to say Vesemir wasn't seriously trying to shake Axii off in what was a sparring match.
Well, the kind of Axii Geralt would need to use on Wolf would be full mind control to force the fight to end rather than just get an opening for a hit. At least in that case there's zero examples against strong willpower equating to resistance that have been brought up so far.
Yeah that's just a game mechanic.
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Honestly five people at once would be breaking the will of five people at once (that's at least how potency of mindhax works on this wiki), so that's a pretty good feat too. I'm not really fond of side quests so didn't know about this one.
So it really comes down to "was Vesemir serious", well in my opinion he still did resist it but as he said "I hate this one" and "Axii can really muddle your mind", he was fully conscious, just stunned. I don't know if Sekiro has the willpower to stand against Axii mind control or something, that's just debatable if we really want to take that claim with "strong will resists Axii" seriously
So it really comes down to "was Vesemir serious", well in my opinion he still did resist it but as he said "I hate this one" and "Axii can really muddle your mind", he was fully conscious, just stunned. I don't know if Sekiro has the willpower to stand against Axii mind control or something, that's just debatable if we really want to take that claim with "strong will resists Axii" seriously
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