The Walking Dead Upgrades

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Hi, it's been a while since my last thread.

My proposals for TWD are:

Level up the AP/Durability of protagonists of the live-action series, specifically Daryl Dixon and the humans that escalate from him. The feat belongs to a member of the Whisperers named Beta who survived a fall from several meters high without really noticeable damage



Walkers are also shown to be able to Punch through the wooden walls, which would require this much force

Human characters like Gleen, Michonne among others have crushed the skull of the walkers



Skip Minute 18:56 for Gleen's feat

Skip Minute 16:02 for Michonne's feat

Skip minute 30:23 for the Gobernor's feat

Skip minute 49:04 for Rick's feat

Such a feat makes them scale to these guns because their calibers can make a skull pop like a smashed eggshell. Skull crushing would be around 3000-3700 J worth of energy.

 

[Ped2018]

In what minute does the feat happens?

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

In what minute does the feat happens?

Minute 2:35

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks okay

 

[Artorimachi_Meteoraft]

I agree with the crt

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Looks okay

So, can I make the updates?

 

[SamanPatou]

The calc on the RFSF page uses a minimum height of 143 m, which surely isn't the case here. Also, the guy was clearly hurt, was growling in pain and left a visible stain of blood. Moreover, we can't tell the exact height of his fall.

The wall feat should be fine, even though you should find a video, that picture isn't very clear. Also, he's punching through a wooden plank nailed to the sides, not exactly a wall, but it's surely 9-C.

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

The calc would 100% not apply. He was falling for about 2.78 seconds. That means that he only fell about 38 meters. Falling from 38 meters =/= falling from 143 meters, which is what the calc was calculating

Street Level+ to Low Wall Level, sure. 98,315 Joules, no

I was considering making a giant CRT of the entire verse. Most of the pages are composite characters and have little to no justification for stats and inconsistant scaling. The video game profiles are fine, but the TV show profiles need a lot of work

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

The calc on the RFSF page uses a minimum height of 143 m, which surely isn't the case here. Also, the guy was clearly hurt, was growling in pain and left a visible stain of blood. Moreover, we can't tell the exact height of his fall.

The wall feat should be fine, even though you should find a video, that picture isn't very clear. Also, he's punching through a wooden plank nailed to the sides, not exactly a wall, but it's surely 9-C.

I see.

So the calc doesn't apply to the wooden plank feat?

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

I was considering making a giant CRT of the entire verse. Most of the pages are composite characters and have little to no justification for stats and inconsistant scaling. The video game profiles are fine, but the TV show profiles need a lot of work

Indeed

I was considering adding some references in the Zombies profile too

 

[DarkGrath]

I mostly concur with SamanPatou and ThePrimalHunter here.

The feat of surviving the fall is not useful. We don't know how long the fall was, and (as ThePrimalHunter mentions), judging the distance by the time between starting the fall and landing results in a far lower number than what the RFSF calc suggests. This feat isn't provably anything special.

The feat of the walker punching through the wooden plank is a bit questionable. I agree with SamanPatou that it is most likely 9-C, but punching through a wooden plank of undetermined thickness kept in place by nails isn't reasonably equivalent to punching through a full, standard-thickness wooden wall. In lieu of better options, though, it's probably fine to rate this around the calced fragmentation value (that being, 397.1925J).

The skull crushing is also very questionable - my main contention is that they are crushing the skulls of walkers, which are heavily decomposed humans, rather than just normal humans. The prior feat would suggest that their bodies still possess a good deal of structural integrity, but I'm not convinced this constitutes their skulls being precisely as stable as an ordinary human's would be. In fact, the link for this feat on the references page itself mentions that "fresh cadaver skulls are much more resistant to crushing/fracture than formaldehyde-preserved or desiccated skulls", with walker skulls naturally falling strongly into the "desiccated skull" category. Regarding this feat at around 3000-3700J is too much of a highball for me to pass it, but I'd be willing to hear out suggestions on how to estimate this.

9-C should be a perfectly acceptable rating. The ~400J calc should be fine, but I can't pass the 3000-3700J calc as it is.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I suppose Dark Grath and the others make strong points.

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

Many of the characters can decapitate zombies, with decapitation requiring 616 Joules of energy, so Street Level still works for most of the cast

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

I'd be willing to hear out suggestions on how to estimate this.

9-C should be a perfectly acceptable rating.

First Thank you for your input.

Second what if the human character kills a Walker with mere punches such as in the Governor case (Skip minute 30:23 for the Gobernor's feat), also many of the characters can decapitate zombies so this calc could be acceptable in this case?

 

[DarkGrath]

First Thank you for your input.

Second what if the human character kills a Walker with mere punches such as in the Governor case (Skip minute 30:23 for the Gobernor's feat), also many of the characters can decapitate zombies so this calc could be acceptable in this case?

If a human character can kill a walker with punches, that would suggest they are roughly around the walker's level in AP, yes. Though I was under the impression this wasn't really contentious. I'm already okay with scaling the human characters up to the walkers based on the ~400J feat.

By "decapitate", could you specify any examples you're thinking of? If it's something like "decapitating with an arm chop", then what I've said before about crushing a skull still applies - they're decomposed, and likely not as structurally stable, so using a full human calc would probably be a bit of a highball. If it's something like "decapitating with a sharp object (like an axe)", that probably doesn't mean anything special by itself. That's just the kind of thing an ordinary human can do, in theory.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

I'm already okay with scaling the human characters up to the walkers based on the ~400J feat.

Could you show me the 400J calc, please?

 

[ShionAH]

I disagree with the skull crushing. Walkers have bones that are probably not as durable as normal human since they are corpses.

 

[DarkGrath]

Could you show me the 400J calc, please?

The ~400J calc is just the standardised fragmentation calc for a wood wall you linked in the OP - the exact number is 397.1925J, but that's a bit much to type up every time, so I've referred to it as the ~400J (i.e.: "estimated 400 joules") calc.

Even though the situations aren't precisely equivalent, I'm perfectly okay with using that calc to scale the Walking Dead characters up to 9-C.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

The ~400J calc is just the standardised fragmentation calc for a wood wall you linked in the OP - the exact number is 397.1925J, but that's a bit much to type up every time, so I've referred to it as the ~400J (i

Even though the situations aren't precisely equivalent, I'm perfectly okay with using that calc to scale the Walking Dead characters up to 9-C.

So can I make the updates on the pages?

 

[DarkGrath]

I'd be okay with updating the pages with the ~400J calc in mind, and it sounds like both SamanPatou and DarkDragonMedeus are also okay with it (though it may be worth checking). Furthermore, no counterarguments exist that need to be addressed, and all members involved with the thread so far have expressed agreement.

So, updating the pages should be perfectly fine.

 

[CharlesZaGreat]

Also, I'm guessing we're counting that part of the explosion that Rick took in Season 9 Episode 5 as an outlier of sorts, right?

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Also, I'm guessing we're counting that part of the explosion that Rick took in Season 9 Episode 5 as an outlier of sorts, right?

I think Rick has Wall level dura due to that explosion.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Doneso.

I added some scans, videos and references to the profiles.

 

[DarkGrath]

The explosion feat does seem to be interesting. Has that been calced, by any chance?

 

[ShionAH]

The explosion feat does seem to be interesting. Has that been calced, by any chance?

Not sure if Rick can fully scale he probably escaped since it wasnt point blank (?)

 

[DarkGrath]

Not sure if Rick can fully scale he probably escaped since it wasnt point blank (?)

From the footage, I agree he wouldn't fully scale, but it might be a worthwhile feat to examine regardless. The downscaling could probably be accounted for if an estimated distance between Rick and the centre of the explosion could be established.

 

[ShionAH]

From the footage, I agree he wouldn't fully scale, but it might be a worthwhile feat to examine regardless. The downscaling could probably be accounted for if an estimated distance between Rick and the centre of the explosion could be established.

Yes I think that can be either really high into street level or really baseline wall level.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

I'd be okay with updating the pages with the ~400J calc in mind,

I have a question: What if the zombie whose head is crushed has been reanimated for a few minutes? That time isn't enough to be rotten.

 

[DarkGrath]

I have a question: What if the zombie whose head is crushed has been reanimated for a few minutes? That time isn't enough to be rotten.

Perhaps. It would depend on the rate of decay and how long it had been since they first passed away.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Perhaps. It would depend on the rate of decay and how long it had been since they first passed away.

Fresh zombies tend to be stronger, more agile, and more intelligent than older zombies.

 

[DarkGrath]

Fresh zombies tend to be stronger, more agile, and more intelligent than older zombies.

Yes, I'd imagine so.

Are you thinking of a particular example of a zombie kill? As in, is there a case of someone who had only just passed away who had their head crushed?

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Yes, I'd imagine so.

Are you thinking of a particular example of a zombie kill? As in, is there a case of someone who had only just passed away who had their head crushed?

Skip minute 30:17, please



That zombie was a person who had been dead less than five minutes, his head is crushed by the Governor although with the help of a cylinder. In fact zombies in TWD decay much slower than real-life corpses, some are still complete after 14 years since the outbreak.

 

[DarkGrath]

Mhm, I assume you're referring to the zombified David Chambler kill?

It's a bit difficult to tell just from what the clip shows, but it does at least appear that his skull becomes caved in. An issue here is that the 3000-3700J calc is assuming the feat is performed in a single strike, which isn't the case here - he needs to strike David Chambler multiple times to cave his skull in, indicating no single strike in the process necessarily reaches the 3000-3700J threshold. It's probably higher than ~400J, though, so I'm open to input.

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Mhm, I assume you're referring to the zombified David Chambler kill?

It's a bit difficult to tell just from what the clip shows, but it does at least appear that his skull becomes caved in. An issue here is that the 3000-3700J calc is assuming the feat is performed in a single strike, which isn't the case here - he needs to strike David Chambler multiple times to cave his skull in, indicating no single strike in the process necessarily reaches the 3000-3700J threshold. It's probably higher than ~400J, though, so I'm open to input.

Well, to be honest, that was my entire repertoire. I don't have any more feats to show and I think it would be difficult to give a measurement to the eye alone. The truth is I'm happy that I was able to improve the profiles as much as I could with the little I had.

I sincerely believe that this thread has fulfilled its mission. But if you wish it can remain open to see if someone brings a calculation to the table.

 

[DarkGrath]

No worries. I think there's potential for further upgrades within the constraints of some of the mentioned feats, but those don't need to be calced or compounded upon right away.

ThePrimalHunter mentioned earlier in the thread that he was planning on performing a large verse-wide CRT sometime soon. Perhaps you could consolidate any information you have with him that might be of use? I'm not usually involved with this verse, but I'd be willing to help out with evaluations if that CRT came to fruition.

 

[CharlesZaGreat]

Mhm, I assume you're referring to the zombified David Chambler kill?

It's a bit difficult to tell just from what the clip shows, but it does at least appear that his skull becomes caved in. An issue here is that the 3000-3700J calc is assuming the feat is performed in a single strike, which isn't the case here - he needs to strike David Chambler multiple times to cave his skull in, indicating no single strike in the process necessarily reaches the 3000-3700J threshold. It's probably higher than ~400J, though, so I'm open to input.

Most of the Walking Dead head crushing feats require multiple hits

Rick was able to crush a Walker's head with his barehands though...Though he isn't crushing the whole thing, only just hard enough to make the contents within explode.

While I don't this'll be too much of an upgrade, Morgan is strong enough to disembowel someone with his barehands (Though it was with the help of a previous existing injury to the stomach)

 

[ThePrimalHunter]

While I don't this'll be too much of an upgrade, Morgan is strong enough to disembowel someone with his barehands (Though it was with the help of a previous existing injury to the stomach)

I mean, this isn't really anything super special. They can already overpower zombies who can do a simular feat, so most characters already scale to stuff like this

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

No worries. I think there's potential for further upgrades within the constraints of some of the mentioned feats, but those don't need to be calced or compounded upon right away.

ThePrimalHunter mentioned earlier in the thread that he was planning on performing a large verse-wide CRT sometime soon. Perhaps you could consolidate any information you have with him that might be of use? I'm not usually involved with this verse, but I'd be willing to help out with evaluations if that CRT came to fruition.

Thank you so much for your input, it's really appreciated.

 

[CharlesZaGreat]

We should also probably clean up profiles while we're at it

Rick is listed with wall level durability (With no feat calc behind it). Yet the Governor, Daryl, and Negan can all harm him (Which is used as evidence on their profiles) and don't scale to this. Additionally, Merle can harm Rick yet for some doesn't have any scaling mentioned (With him only being at Athlete level).

 

[Apex_Predator_GX]

Most of the Walking Dead head crushing feats require multiple hits

Rick was able to crush a Walker's head with his barehands though...Though he isn't crushing the whole thing, only just hard enough to make the contents within explode.

While I don't this'll be too much of an upgrade, Morgan is strong enough to disembowel someone with his barehands (Though it was with the help of a previous existing injury to the stomach)

Rick's explosion feat in Season 9 Episode 05 needs a calc for sure. Eyeballing that's probably Wall level durability.