The Revenant Marvel Comics Discussion Thread

[ObberGobb]

So... are we sure that Thor's Yggdrasil feats are inherently 1-A? I know I'm the one who did the thread making it 1-A, but I don't know if it feels right for Thor to be 1-A. Like 1-A was settled on because of the Astral Realm being 1-A, and Yggdrasil encompassing "everything." But our tiering system says of 1-A that "A 1-A character or realm, on the other hand, fundamentally surpasses lower states of existence, with their sheer superiority not being expressible as the sum, union or permutation of anything in these lesser states. They, in other words, transcend lower existences to the point that those vanish into nothingness." I don't think that applies to Thor, or frankly most characters. Like, could these feats just be 2-A?

I'm also starting to feel iffy on Thor being on a completely higher level than other Heralds, like Silver Surfer. I know I helped establish this split but now I worry it might be wrong. In my recent readings, I haven't found much of anything that implies that. On the contrary, characters like Silver Surfer, Beta Ray Bill, Eric Masterson, etc. are kinda just shown to be on his same level. Thor even considers Silver Surfer more powerful than him, and while there is that scan of Loki thinking otherwise, that still implies that they are on the same level, as it could go either way who is stronger. There are also statements of Loki's physical strength being close to Thor's, supported by him physically hurting Eric Masterson, but Loki was physically overpowered by Silver Surfer.

 

[Eseseso]

So... are we sure that Thor's Yggdrasil feats are inherently 1-A? I know I'm the one who did the thread making it 1-A, but I don't know if it feels right for Thor to be 1-A. Like 1-A was settled on because of the Astral Realm being 1-A, and Yggdrasil encompassing "everything." But our tiering system says of 1-A that "A 1-A character or realm, on the other hand, fundamentally surpasses lower states of existence, with their sheer superiority not being expressible as the sum, union or permutation of anything in these lesser states. They, in other words, transcend lower existences to the point that those vanish into nothingness." I don't think that applies to Thor, or frankly most characters. Like, could these feats just be 2-A?

I'm also starting to feel iffy on Thor being on a completely higher level than other Heralds, like Silver Surfer. I know I helped establish this split but now I worry it might be wrong. In my recent readings, I haven't found much of anything that implies that. On the contrary, characters like Silver Surfer, Beta Ray Bill, Eric Masterson, etc. are kinda just shown to be on his same level. Thor even considers Silver Surfer more powerful than him, and while there is that scan of Loki thinking otherwise, that still implies that they are on the same level, as it could go either way who is stronger. There are also statements of Loki's physical strength being close to Thor's, supported by him physically hurting Eric Masterson, but Loki was physically overpowered by Silver Surfer.

There are plans to make Yggdrasil High 1-B at its lowest

 

[ObberGobb]

There are plans to make Yggdrasil High 1-B at its lowest

That sounds better than 1-A at least. High 1-B Thor still seems weird though.

 

[ObberGobb]

I would prefer 2-A Heralds. I think its more likely that this is the intended level of all of those Thor feats than High 1-B or especially 1-A. And also 2-A is a very nice looking tier

 

[Eseseso]

I would prefer 2-A Heralds. I think its more likely that this is the intended level of all of those Thor feats than High 1-B or especially 1-A. And also 2-A is a very nice looking tier

I agree. But what 2-A evidence is there for Yggdrasil?

 

[Antvasima]

I would prefer 2-A Heralds. I think its more likely that this is the intended level of all of those Thor feats than High 1-B or especially 1-A. And also 2-A is a very nice looking tier

Ditto.

 

[ObberGobb]

I agree. But what 2-A evidence is there for Yggdrasil?

There are 2:

1. Erik Solvang says there are infinite universes in Yggdrasil
2. Seth says that Yggdrasil exists across all of the infinite planes of reality

 

[Eseseso]

There are 2:

1. Erik Solvang says there are infinite universes in Yggdrasil
2. Seth says that Yggdrasil exists across all of the infinite planes of reality

Infinite planes seems more like High 1-B

 

[The_Impress]

wait **** this is my thread

 

[The_man_with_the_Midas_touch]

Props to whoever made this page for The Hood. Always love seeing a well-made Street Tier profile.

 

[The_Impress]

I claim 15% ownership for holding Saman hostage until he made it

It was to coincide with his MCU appearance and Saman did a great job

 

[Eseseso]

Speaking of street tiers, I'm working on a profile for Hexfinder. I know she's only had 8 appearances (though she definitely seems like she'll return in future SW issues), but she already has a fair amount of abilities and is an entertaining villain.

I might also do one for Equation, but he only had 3 appearances before he died.

 

[The_Impress]

what I ususally do is put them in a sandbox (or go to an alt. site) to publish em, until they hit the appearance limit

 

[Eseseso]

what I ususally do is put them in a sandbox (or go to an alt. site) to publish em, until they hit the appearance limit

That's probably what I'll do with Hexfinder, though Equation will probably...never reach that since he was in a Strange Academy spinoff and died in his 3rd run.

He does have a lot of good abilities despite his short appearance

 

[The_Impress]

Yeah then prolly make that one on an alt wiki. Confluctor knows some good ones.

 

[That_moron2]

Don't we allow profiles that don't meet the appearance limit if they're notable enough, like if the character is the main antagonist of a story or something of that kind?

 

[The_Impress]

Of an event, or if they get adapted alot

 

[Eseseso]

Don't we allow profiles that don't meet the appearance limit if they're notable enough, like if the character is the main antagonist of a story or something of that kind?

Equation is the main antagonist of the SA spinoff. Plus his main ability gives him a lot of hax.

Type 3 CM, power null, existence erasure, mind hax, busted regeneration, so on.

It's funny because physically he's only human level (though he endures getting roughed up by a pissed off Moon Knight) but his hax is really good. Plus he's a complex villain.

 

[SamanPatou]

Props to whoever made this page for The Hood. Always love seeing a well-made Street Tier profile.

Thank you, good sir.

I claim 15% ownership for holding Saman hostage until he made it

It was to coincide with his MCU appearance and Saman did a great job

True, I was held in Zark's smelly basement fed only with stale bread and water.

 

[Eseseso]

Thank you, good sir.


True, I was held in Zark's smelly basement fed only with stale bread and water.

Stale bread and water in exchange for one vs profile? In this economy that's a bargain!

 

[Sparkive]

I forgot to mention, the CGD is now a CTR

Collective-man's Ap calc fix

This will be quick I redid the calc for Collective-man's Ap Old version - New version What changed? Currently, the human level is 60-106 joules, unlike the previous version where the tier was 40-100 joules. The number of China's population had no source to justify it, and the producer of the...

vsbattles.com

 

[Excellence616]

Abstract Existance Type 1: Narrative For Astral Form ( Marvel Comic )

- The Astral Plane is a realm of ideas, narratives, and thoughts — a metaphysical realm. Souls are metaphysical stories. Soul is a power capable of shaping the universe, and the mind imposes order upon time. Victor Strange is no longer human — he himself has died and become a story. Victor...

vsbattles.com

 

[Hayato5652]

Is there any way for Hulk's speed to reach Immeasurable? Like by scaling him to other characters?

 

[Antvasima]

The Hulk is canonically rather slow, but since the fights between characters have to be choreographed to seem reasonably exciting, all of the character speeds are usually turned comparative to each other during confrontations as an ongoing Marvel Comics plot convention.

 

[The_Impress]

The based take is give up and make all Marvel Combat speeds Unknown because speed is the worst stat in all of fiction ever and Marvel's host of other problems ain't helping it.

But that is a conversation the "tolerant" left ain't ready to have

 

[Hayato5652]

I have a better suggestion regarding the Tier, Any Marvel character who doesn’t qualify for BDE Type 3 should have their Key 1-A removed.

I don’t understand why Captain America’s shield should have 1-A durability.........!

that’s really not how 1-A works...
If you read this CRT, you’ll understand:

Can 3-D characters have 1-A physicals?

So, as we all know, the Tiering System is divided into two directions of power: Quantitative and qualitative. When we say the difference between X and Y is "quantitative," we mean exactly what's on the tin: It has to do with quantity. Some numerical determination keeping them apart. So the...

vsbattles.com

 

[Excellence616]

Is there any way for Hulk's speed to reach Immeasurable? Like by scaling him to other characters?

Yes. His profile is outdated. I plan on revising him.

The Hulk is canonically rather slow, but since the fights between characters have to be choreographed to seem reasonably exciting, all of the character speeds are usually turned comparative to each other during confrontations as an ongoing Marvel Comics plot convention.

Are you sure? Don't compare Street tiers characters outmaneuvering Hulk as being slow. All powerful characters that are fast including Speedsters always fall victim of get blitz by street tiers of Marvel/DC comics due to inconsistency.

I have a better suggestion regarding the Tier, Any Marvel character who doesn’t qualify for BDE Type 3 should have their Key 1-A removed.

I don’t understand why Captain America’s shield should have 1-A durability.........!

that’s really not how 1-A works...
If you read this CRT, you’ll understand:

Can 3-D characters have 1-A physicals?

So, as we all know, the Tiering System is divided into two directions of power: Quantitative and qualitative. When we say the difference between X and Y is "quantitative," we mean exactly what's on the tin: It has to do with quantity. Some numerical determination keeping them apart. So the...

vsbattles.com

Not sure since there can also scale through other means. Cap's Shield 1-A and Base Hercules ratings will be downgraded to High 1-B since it's scaling is from Skyfather level feats. For Thor, he can tap into some inner powers of some forces that makes his case special. Hulk's case as i stated above, his profile is outdated. Multiple statements about him and his metaphysical connection to the One Above All/One Below, the right hand or agent of destruction blah blah blah.

Should Franklin, Squirrel girl, Gwenpool 1-A ratings be removed just because they lack BDE type 3?

 

[Hayato5652]

Should Franklin, Squirrel girl, Gwenpool 1-A ratings be removed just because they lack BDE type 3?

This is something Ultima mentioned that a 3D character can’t be 1-A
And I can’t say with complete certainty whether, even with Rage power, amp, and numerous consecutive feats, the character would still lack 1-A status or not
Imagine a character who doesn't have BDE Type 3, but can still defeat characters who do have BDE Type 3, that might actually be fine
But I still recommend that, in order to maintain a Tier 1-A,
the character should have a BDE Type 3 Because Ultima’s CRT has been accepted

 

[Excellence616]

This is something Ultima mentioned that a 3D character can’t be 1-A
And I can’t say with complete certainty whether, even with Rage power, amp, and numerous consecutive feats, the character would still lack 1-A status or not
Imagine a character who doesn't have BDE Type 3, but can still defeat characters who do have BDE Type 3, that might actually be fine
But I still recommend that, in order to maintain a Tier 1-A,
the character should have a BDE Type 3 Because Ultima’s CRT has been accepted

Cases of reality warping, metaphysical empowerment or gag character can get a pass

 

[ObberGobb]

I have a better suggestion regarding the Tier, Any Marvel character who doesn’t qualify for BDE Type 3 should have their Key 1-A removed.

I don’t understand why Captain America’s shield should have 1-A durability.........!

that’s really not how 1-A works...
If you read this CRT, you’ll understand:

Can 3-D characters have 1-A physicals?

So, as we all know, the Tiering System is divided into two directions of power: Quantitative and qualitative. When we say the difference between X and Y is "quantitative," we mean exactly what's on the tin: It has to do with quantity. Some numerical determination keeping them apart. So the...

vsbattles.com

I agree. Thor, Hercules, Hulk, Cap's shield, all Skyfathers and Celestial tier characters, etc. should be downgraded to High 1-B at the highest. Personally I actually have an issue with the infinite dimensional stuff, but for now that's better than 1-A.

 

[Excellence616]

Celestial tier characters

Including the Celestials?

 

[ObberGobb]

Including the Celestials?

I think so. At least their Universal bodies would be High 1-B, later two keys would still be 1-A I think.

 

[Hayato5652]

I agree. Thor, Hercules, Hulk, Cap's shield, all Skyfathers and Celestial tier characters, etc. should be downgraded to High 1-B at the highest. Personally I actually have an issue with the infinite dimensional stuff, but for now that's better than 1-A.

Someone has to make this CRT, though I doubt anyone like that will show up.

Characters like Moon Knight and even Iron Man’s armors are listed as 1-A, unfortunately...this kind of scaling is possible up to Low 1-A, but not for qualitative scaling, since the conditions are much more complicated

It might be possible, however, to defend Thor and Devil Hulk remaining 1-A, I mean because of Gamma connection with The One Below All and all that stuff... which is hard to properly explain

 

[Eseseso]

I agree. Thor, Hercules, Hulk, Cap's shield, all Skyfathers and Celestial tier characters, etc. should be downgraded to High 1-B at the highest. Personally I actually have an issue with the infinite dimensional stuff, but for now that's better than 1-A.

Someone has to make this CRT, though I doubt anyone like that will show up.

Characters like Moon Knight and even Iron Man’s armors are listed as 1-A, unfortunately...this kind of scaling is possible up to Low 1-A, but not for qualitative scaling, since the conditions are much more complicated

It might be possible, however, to defend Thor and Devil Hulk remaining 1-A, I mean because of Gamma connection with The One Below All and all that stuff... which is hard to properly explain

Once the Herald scaling to Low 1-C is removed, then we can scale the god realms in a way that will downgrade the skyfathers and hell-lords to High 1-B, with Celestials scaling above the Skyfathers.

But yeah, stuff like Cap's shield and Iron Man's armors will then indeed be downgraded to High 1-B

 

[ObberGobb]

Once the Herald scaling to Low 1-C is removed, then we can scale the god realms in a way that will downgrade the skyfathers and hell-lords to High 1-B, with Celestials scaling above the Skyfathers.

But yeah, stuff like Cap's shield and Iron Man's armors will then indeed be downgraded to High 1-B

Sounds good. Where would the High 1-B scaling come from in that case?

We will also have to find feats to replace the Low 1-C rating. Honestly I think you could well argue that most Herald Tier characters could be scaled to High 1-B, but I don't know if people will go for that (Baby Thor scales to Yggdrasil, young Thor > baby Thor, Heralds > young Thor. Alternatively, Heralds = Thor as only one Yggdrasil feat was peak). We could also downgrade Yggdrasil feats to 2-A for affecting infinite realms but not in an infinite dimensional way, if that's possible.

 

[Hayato5652]

Once the Herald scaling to Low 1-C is removed, then we can scale the god realms in a way that will downgrade the skyfathers and hell-lords to High 1-B, with Celestials scaling above the Skyfathers.

But yeah, stuff like Cap's shield and Iron Man's armors will then indeed be downgraded to High 1-B

I have no problem with Thor, Galactus, Hulk, or even Doctor Doom being 1-A, and even Beyonders, because I know these characters, with their special forms and things like amp, Rage power... have been able to perform a lot of feats and can interact with 1-A characters though it still needs to be examined.

But Moon Knight, Captain America shield, and Iron Man’s armors really seem contradictory and questionable

 

[Eseseso]

Sounds good. Where would the High 1-B scaling come from in that case?

Mystic realm stuff, Profectus and I are working on that.

We will also have to find feats to replace the Low 1-C rating. Honestly I think you could well argue that most Herald Tier characters could be scaled to High 1-B, but I don't know if people will go for that (Baby Thor scales to Yggdrasil, young Thor > baby Thor, Heralds > young Thor. Alternatively, Heralds = Thor as only one Yggdrasil feat was peak). We could also downgrade Yggdrasil feats to 2-A for affecting infinite realms but not in an infinite dimensional way, if that's possible.

That's kind of what Impress's thread is figuring out.

I have no problem with Thor, Galactus, Hulk, or even Doctor Doom being 1-A, and even Beyonders, because I know these characters, with their special forms and things like amp, Rage power... have been able to perform a lot of feats and can interact with 1-A characters though it still needs to be examined.

But Moon Knight, Captain America shield, and Iron Man’s armors really seem contradictory and questionable

Agreed, except for maybe Moon Knight when Khonshu is giving him a huge amp but I'm not a MK expert.

 

[Excellence616]

Someone has to make this CRT, though I doubt anyone like that will show up.

Characters like Moon Knight and even Iron Man’s armors are listed as 1-A, unfortunately...this kind of scaling is possible up to Low 1-A, but not for qualitative scaling, since the conditions are much more complicated

They would be downgraded. Someone plan on downgrading Yggdrasil which will affect most of them. Moon Knight scales from using a fraction of Khonshu's power and also defeating someone who is a treat to the multiverse. As for Tony's armor, Model 22, Model 61, Model 63 and Model 72 are going down. Not sure about Model 38.

It might be possible, however, to defend Thor and Devil Hulk remaining 1-A, I mean because of Gamma connection with The One Below All and all that stuff... which is hard to properly explain

Thor once had the ability to power up via Inner Essence, a rating given to him by Ultima but was removed for reasons i can't remember. Hulk stuff would come later since i would be handling that.

 

[Excellence616]

Sounds good. Where would the High 1-B scaling come from in that case?

We will also have to find feats to replace the Low 1-C rating. Honestly I think you could well argue that most Herald Tier characters could be scaled to High 1-B, but I don't know if people will go for that (Baby Thor scales to Yggdrasil, young Thor > baby Thor, Heralds > young Thor. Alternatively, Heralds = Thor as only one Yggdrasil feat was peak). We could also downgrade Yggdrasil feats to 2-A for affecting infinite realms but not in an infinite dimensional way, if that's possible.

2-A is the better choice since that would have been the tier if God Realms were not accepted as 5-D at that time. Scaling heralds to skyfather level is meh.

 

[That_moron2]

The based take is give up and make all Marvel Combat speeds stats Unknown

I fixed it for you