The Revenant Marvel Comics Discussion Thread

[Excellence616]

lowball.
but decent and this is semi unrelated

But Thor and Surfer both have blatant infinite speed feats on their profiles that are given to them as MFTL+ instead. Why is that?

Speed: Massively FTL+ (Flew through 500,000 light-years in a short timeframe. Crossed the universe. Flew galactic distances in a panel. Crossed the universe in minutes. Searched through the entire galaxy in seconds. Visited every planet across numerous galaxies in hours)

Speed: Massively FTL+ (Can regularly travel across the universe or between the Nine Realms without the aid of the Bifrost in a very short amount of time. The Nine Realms are shown to be separate universes, Crossed several lightyears nigh-instantly)

• Jane Foster as Valkyrie searches the 10 realms and every point in between in the blink of an eye | Thor Vol. 6 #12

• Ares fights with X-Man between moments in Planck time | Dark X-Men Vol. 1 #3

 

[Excellence616]

Early draft of new/revised profiles for a bunch of Asgardians and other Thor characters I'm planning a CRT on. Characters like the Warriors Three, Balder, Sif, and Heimdall all seem to be roughly at the same tier, and in my sandbox I have them currently at "At least 3-C, possibly Low 1-C" but they'll probably end up just being 3-C. There's a lot of feats downscaling them from people who scale or downscale from Thor, so I don't really know whether they'd scale to his 3-C or Low 1-C end. I'm going to need to revisit some older stories though because I have half-memories of a bunch of potentially good feats, like I think Sif sword-fought either Loki or Malekith, but I don't remember it well.

Characters I'm planning to revise:

• Loki (Huge strength upgrade to him, bringing him from 5-B all the way up to Low 1-C. Probably controversial 1-A magic upgrade too, scaling from pre-Sorcerer Supreme Doctor Strange, Bor, and Seth)
• Volstagg (Very bare-bones profile. Probably will want to upgrade War Thor to Low 1-C, and I think base Volstagg is going to end up at 3-C)
• Jane Foster (Mostly just upgrading her to Low 1-C, since I don't think there is any indication she is below characters like Beta Ray Bill or Eric Masterson)

Characters I'm planning to add:

• Malekith the Accursed
• Sif
• Balder the Brave
• Amora the Enchantress
• Karnilla
• Brunnhilde
• Heimdall
• Zarrko the Tomorrow Man
• Weapon profile for the Odinsword

Can we consider Jane, Beta, Eric as Gods?

 

[ObberGobb]

Can we consider Jane, Beta, Eric as Gods?

I think so. It isn't just them as mortal wielding Thor's power, it completely changes their forms, and Eric is said to look almost identical to Thor when transformed. Based on this, it looks like it entirely transforms their physiology into being an Asgardian. The fact that they can use the God Blast also indicates to me that they are fully divine when using their Thor forms.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Legion of X issue 6

• Legion describes his power as ineffable and unimaginable, stating that at the level of power he's at, words don't work.
• Legion then proceeds to fight Uranos and this is literally how their fight is described. It is literally stated that not only do words don't work at this level of power, actions don't either.

So, yeah, I would really appreciate feedback as to what to do with this. Also um, in A.X.E Judgment Day, The Celestial Progneitor is able to just atomize Phoenix and it's heavily implied not just Earth but all of Krakoa would've been judged as well. Yes, I know in Legion of X that Legion was confident he wouldn't be judged, but the very issue with that is, if Progneitor believed Legion was beyond judgment despite knowing his power and even explicitly being told how it works by Legion himself, he would've done so. But, he didn't, which heavily implies Legion can very much be judged by the Celestial. Meaning Progneitor, who is a decayed variant of a Celestial is > Legion

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

"We want to keep you"

That doesn't necessarily mean they want or can keep him alive forever.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Thread '(STAFF NEEDED) Marvel Comics: God Physiology Additions'

Jan 28, 2025

God Physiology current page:

God Physiology (Marvel Comics)

In Marvel, it has been constantly shown that the divine pantheons of the Marvel universe, from Asgardians to Elder Gods, are an instrumental part of the cosmology and narrative. As such, the Gods of Marvel have all constantly been shown to share similar powers, despite the differing natures of...

vsbattles.fandom.com

My sandbox with other abilities and justifications for already accepted abilites added

Ser Hakim Dayne/Sandbox3

vsbattles.fandom.com

I also propose to remove the common abilities of the gods mentioned in the pages of certain characters (like Thor and Hercules), they are not necessary because they are already mentioned in the Physiology page.


List of abilities added:

• Space Survival
• Automatic Translation
• Immo Type 3

List of resistances added:

• ...

• Ser_Hakim_Dayne
• marvel comics
• Replies: 46
• Forum: Content Revision

• 

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

That doesn't necessarily mean they want or can keep him alive forever.

If they were worried about Thor dying they would have taken the stake off his head, and the Blood Coven gets stronger with strong blood, feasting on a god's blood is their heaven.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

If they were worried about Thor dying they would have taken the stake off his head, and the Blood Coven gets stronger with strong blood, feasting on a god's blood is their heaven.

It still doesn't necessarily mean that Thor could survive this injury forever. Depending on your stamina you can survive several days, weeks, months or years with a mortal injury before dying. If this is the case for Thor, it's normal that vampires don't worry.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

It still doesn't necessarily mean that Thor could survive this injury forever.

This is the exact scan before he says that he wants to keep Thor. He specifically states that Kill Thor is a waste and intended on keeping him.

Depending on your stamina you can survive several days, weeks, months or years with a mortal injury before dying. If this is the case for Thor, it's normal that vampires don't worry.

That's BS one thing is surviving a few minutes with a fatal wound but days or weeks untreated that's not a stamina feat it's straight up immo 2 even more so if they are shown to not actually be dying, also that's nonsense do you really think that everyone with immortality type 2 needs to be shown living forever to get type 2? The page says "indefinitely" not forever, as long as it's shown they aren't under the risk of dying soon which this is the case it counts.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

This is the exact scan before he says that he wants to keep Thor. He specifically states that Kill Thor is a waste and intended on keeping him.

Which doesn't mean it's immortality Type 2.

That's BS one thing is surviving a few minutes with a fatal wound but days or weeks untreated that's not a stamina feat it's straight up immo 2

Not if they don't end up dying from it, even if you have this injury untreated for 10 years. If you die from it it means it's lethal for you, so it contradicts the description of immo 2 on the wiki.

also that's nonsense do you really think that everyone with immortality type 2 needs to be shown living forever to get type 2?

No, a statement is enough, but there is none for Thor.

as long as it's shown they aren't under the risk of dying soon which this is the case it counts.

With a "possibly/likely" yeah, not a straight up Immo 2.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Which doesn't mean it's immortality Type 2.


Not if they don't end up dying from it, even if you have this injury untreated for 10 years. If you die from it it means it's lethal for you, so it contradicts the description of immo 2 on the wiki.

That's BS if the injury is a fatal wound for a normal human such heart and head surviving for 10 years is immo type 2, if you didnt' die in those 10 years means the wound wasn't fatal.

No, a statement is enough, but there is none for Thor.
With a "possibly/likely" yeah, not a straight up Immo 2.

Have you seen the examples for immo type 2 none of them actually have a statement that they are capable of surviving forever, Zombies from Plants vs Zombies have immo type 2 from surviving without arms and or legs no statement of being permanently capable of surviving.
The main difference between stamina and type 2 is surviving post battle with wounds that would be fatal to a normal human, because fights usually last for very short time of a few minutes which wouldn't normally be fatal to a normal human so that's stamina or superhuman willpower. If you have intention of capping immo 2 then that's a subject for a wiki wide CRT

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

That's BS if the injury is a fatal wound for a normal human such heart and head surviving for 10 years is immo type 2, if you didnt' die in those 10 years means the wound wasn't fatal.

If you don't end up dying from it even 10 years later, it's not immo 2. Eventually dying from an injury, no matter how long it takes, is the opposite of immo 2. It has been explained and applied here, and this is literally why Stamina specifies the difference between Immo 2 and Superhuman/Extreme Stamina:

• Injury tolerance: How much actual damage a character can withstand and continue to act in spite of it. It is common in fiction to see characters continue to fight despite grievous injuries, such as broken or missing limbs, heavy blood loss, and organ damage. Extreme cases may resemble Type 2 Immortality, with characters temporarily pushing on through injuries that should have killed them. However, as long as an injury remains lethal, it is not actually Type 2 Immortality.

Have you seen the examples for immo type 2 none of them actually have a statement that they are capable of surviving forever

One of the most famous examples of Immo 2 is Hidan in Naruto, who is stated to be unkillable and one of the few ways to kill him is by starvation. This easily confirms type 2.

Zombies from Plants vs Zombies have immo type 2 from surviving without arms and or legs no statement of being permanently capable of surviving.

Your example is bad, you're talking about zombies, of course they won't die from a fatal injury for a normal human.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Jane Foster as Valkyrie searches the 10 realms and every point in between in the blink of an eye | Thor Vol. 6 #12

Doesn't that just seem like dimensional travel?

Ares fights with X-Man between moments in Planck time | Dark X-Men Vol. 1 #3

Someone should calculate this feat, this is possibly an insane mftl+ feat

 

[Excellence616]

Doesn't that just seem like dimensional travel?

It say she searched in a blink of an eye and she was using a horse which implies pure speed.

Someone should calculate this feat, this is possibly an insane mftl+ feat

I can't calc but i already asked someone to help me calculate it.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

It say she searched in a blink of an eye and she was using a horse which implies pure speed.

Yeah but it's still dimensional travel, I don't know how it can be calculated

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

If you don't end up dying from it even 10 years later, it's not immo 2. Eventually dying from an injury, no matter how long it takes, is the opposite of immo 2. It has been explained and applied here, and this is literally why Stamina specifies the difference between Immo 2 and Superhuman/Extreme Stamina:

The key word is fatal wound, one thing is a scratch that can kill you by blood loss another is having a stake piercing your skull and survive for a indefinetly time.

One of the most famous examples of Immo 2 is Hidan in Naruto, who is stated to be unkillable and one of the only ways to kill him is by starvation. This easily confirms type 2.

I stated the other examples because they are what are used in the immortality page as examples of immortality 2. And Hidan was never stated to be capable of surviving forever with mortal injuries all that proves is that he would die of starvation before his wounds could kill him, so by your own definition of immo type 2 Hidan doesn't have immo type 2.

Your example is bad, you're talking about zombies, of course they won't die from a fatal injury for a normal human.

No, that's exacly my point, you said that they need to be stated to survive forever with those injuries which they aren't, being a zombie or not means nothing, even more so the game has zombies dying when they lose their head.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

The key word is fatal wound, one thing is a scratch that can kill you by blood loss another is having a stake piercing your skull and survive for a indefinetly time.

Which changes absolutely nothing. No matter how bad the injury is and no matter how long you have it, if you end up dying from it, it's not immo 2. Period. Make a CRT say you don't agree with that.

I stated the other examples because they are what are used in the immortality page as examples of immortality 2. And Hidan was never stated to be capable of surviving forever with mortal injuries all that proves is that he would die of starvation before his wounds could kill him, so by your own definition of immo type 2 Hidan doesn't have immo type 2.

He is straight up stated as unkillable and can even continue to speak normally while his head is detached from his body. This is easily immo 2.

No, that's exacly my point, you said that they need to be stated to survive forever with those injuries which they aren't, being a zombie or not means nothing,

Again, your example is bad. Being a zombie means you have an Immo 7, so you are already dead, so you also have an Immo 2.

even more so the game has zombies dying when they lose their head.

It just shows that their Immo 2 is limited, and it's a common trope among zombies. But they still have immo 2 because they can't die from other injuries that would be lethal to a normal human.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Characters I'm planning to add:

• Malekith the Accursed

I think mythological/legendary creatures (elves, trolls, dwarves, dragons, giants, etc) should share some common abilities and resistances with Gods, like AE Type 2, Acausality Type 4, etc.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Which changes absolutely nothing. No matter how bad the injury is and no matter how long you have it, if you end up dying from it, it's not immo 2. Period.

And unless you show me Thor dying from it, that still accoutns to nothing.

He is straight up stated as unkillable and can even continue to speak normally while his head is detached from his body. This is easily immo 2.

Means nothing because as you said he was never stated to be capable of living with those forever.

Again, your example is bad. Being a zombie means you have an Immo 7, so you are already dead, so you also have an Immo 2.

Irrelevant Zombies can still be permanently killed one way or another.

It just shows that their Immo 2 is limited, and it's a common trope among zombies. But they still have immo 2 because they can't die from other injuries that would be lethal to a normal human.

Irrelevant I will even quote you

No matter how bad the injury is and no matter how long you have it, if you end up dying from it, it's not immo 2. Period.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

And unless you show me Thor dying from it, that still accoutns to nothing.

And unless you prove that Thor can survive this indefinitely, it counts for nothing. Do a CRT if you are so sure.

Means nothing because as you said he was never stated to be capable of living with those forever.

It is said and proven implicitly with feats. Taking me literally at my word changes nothing to my point and the debate. Stop being dishonest.

Irrelevant Zombies can still be permanently killed one way or another.

They still have an immo 2 because they cannot die from a mortal wound for a normal human, It is just limited.

Irrelevant I will even quote you

Once again you are dishonest.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

And unless you prove that Thor can survive this indefinitely, it counts for nothing. Do a CRT if you are so sure.

I can since there is no statement that he would die from it it means he would survive indefinetly. And I already have 2 threads open one for marvel and I'm working on another stuff for Marvel.

It is said and proven implicitly with feats. Taking me literally at my word changes nothing to my point and the debate. Stop being dishonest.

It's dishonest to use your own words against you? It's dishonest that you have to contradict yourself to prove your own point?

They still have an immo 2 because they cannot die from a mortal wound for a normal human, It is just limited.

The profile doesn't say limited. And except they can die from a mortal wound for a normal human, considering that surgery of head transplant exists nowadays I guess they die even to injuries that are not mortal to humans.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

I can since there is no statement that he would die from it it means he would survive indefinetly.

It's almost similar to saying "there is no statement that character A is not FTL, therefore he is"

It's dishonest to use your own words against you? It's dishonest that you have to contradict yourself to prove your own point?

I'm not contradicting myself, you're just deliberately not understanding (or maybe you just really don't understand?). Hidan is straight up stated as unkillable, he can even easily survive and talk even when his head is detached from his body, and to kill him permanently they have to starve him. Zombies are already dead so they can't die from injuries that would be fatal for humans. Thor has nothing comparable to Hidan and he's not a Zombie, so the only way for him to prove he has Immo 2 is a statement that says he can survive an injury that would be fatal for a normal human indefinitely.

The profile doesn't say limited.

If they can actually die from a decapitation like you have said, and not just be incapacitated, it should be (or not, just mentioning it in weaknesses is enough).

And except they can die from a mortal wound for a normal human, considering that surgery of head transplant exists nowadays I guess they die even to injuries that are not mortal to humans.

They are already dead and can continue to attack even when dismembered or impaled, so no they cannot die from injuries lethal to a normal human (except for the head for some zombies from some verses)

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

It's almost similar to saying "there is no statement that character A is not FTL, therefore he is"

That's actual dishonest, you are the one assuming he would die when he shown no signs of dying to that, if something is the same as saying "he was shown to be capable of keeping up with FTL for a short time, so he is FTL"

I'm not contradicting myself, you're just deliberately not understanding (or maybe you just really don't understand?). Hidan is straight up stated as unkillable,

Thor also states that he cannot be killed right before the vampires put a stake on his head, Thor has immortality type 4 and 8 and apparently that doesn't mean he can have type 2.

he can even easily survive and talk even when his head is detached from his body, and to kill him permanently they have to starve him.

False equivalence, being killed from starvation doesn't mean he couldn't have died some other way or that "to kill him permanently they have to starve him" all you saying is that he can die from starvation without any evidence that he can survive forever with those injuries.

Zombies are already dead so they can't die from injuries that would be fatal for humans.

Zombies are half dead, they are still half alive too that's why they are "undead".

Thor has nothing comparable to Hidan and he's not a Zombie, so the only way for him to prove he has Immo 2 is a statement that says he can survive an injury that would be fatal for a normal human indefinitely.

By your logic neither Zombies or Hidan have immo type 2 so nothing is enough really.

If they can actually die from a decapitation like you have, and not just be incapacitated, it should be (or not, just mentioning it in weaknesses is enough).

They are already dead and can continue to attack even when dismembered or impaled, so no they cannot die from injuries lethal to a normal human (except for the head for some zombies from some verses)

Irrelevant they were never stated that they can keep those injuries forever so either it's 10 years 100 years 1 Billion years they still have a chance to die from that because they were never stated to be capable of surviving forever with those injuries, which by the way it also says that you can't have immo type 2 without type 1 since you need to survive forever, if you keep a fatal injury for 100 years but die of old age it doesn't prove you can't die from that injury if you lived for 200 years.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

That's actual dishonest, you are the one assuming he would die when he shown no signs of dying to that

If we can't prove that he's going to die or that he can live indefinitely from this injury, then we can't prove anything, so no immo 2.

Thor also states that he cannot be killed right before the vampires put a stake on his head

Then show it?

Thor has immortality type 4 and 8 and apparently that doesn't mean he can have type 2.

Because there is no connection?

False equivalence, being killed from starvation doesn't mean he couldn't have died some other way or that "to kill him permanently they have to starve him" all you saying is that he can die from starvation without any evidence that he can survive forever with those injuries.

There is no false equivalence, he is straight up stated as unkillable and can speak normally even when his head is detached from his body. So you can't kill him by inflicting a lethal wound on him.

Zombies are half dead, they are still half alive too that's why they are "undead".

And Thor isn't, so still not comparable.

By your logic neither Zombies or Hidan have immo type 2 so nothing is enough really.

That's not my logic. I explained that Thor needs a clear statement because his case is not comparable to Hidan and a Zombie. Some things have to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis, not everything can be judged the same way.

Irrelevant they were never stated that they can keep those injuries forever so either it's 10 years 100 years 1 Billion years they still have a chance to die from that because they were never stated to be capable of surviving forever with those injuries, which by the way it also says that you can't have immo type 2 without type 1 since you need to survive forever, if you keep a fatal injury for 100 years but die of old age it doesn't prove you can't die from that injury if you lived for 200 years.

They are already dead, that's why they have Immo 7, so they can't die from it, so Immo 2.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Thor also states that he cannot be killed right before the vampires put a stake on his head

I took a look at the comic myself and yeah, it looks like it's Immo 2:

"you may cut me, monster but you cannot turn me and you cannot kill me--"

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

If we can't prove that he's going to die or that he can live indefinitely from this injury, then we can't prove anything, so no immo 2.

No, you can't prove he was dying, the scans directly state that he was put in that state (With a stake on his head) with the intent to keep him alive.

Then show it?

I already did, the scan I linked earlier states that

This is the exact scan before he says that he wants to keep Thor. He specifically states that Kill Thor is a waste and intended on keeping him.

If you actually had read it, you would have seen it.

Because there is no connection?

It is, many characters are stated to be unkillable for their resurection or their really fast healing or even just because they are too strong to be hurt.

There is no false equivalence, he is straight up stated as unkillable and can speak normally even when his head is detached from his body. So you can't kill him by inflicting a lethal wound on him.

Irrelevant without any statement you can't prove that he wouldn't die 10 years later if he spent all that time decapitated, "he is doing it out of pure stamina and will power" because even injuries that would be impossible for a human to be alive are not enough to prove immo type 2.

And Thor isn't, so still not comparable.

Irrelevant.

That's not my logic. I explained that Thor needs a clear statement because his case is not comparable to Hidan and a Zombie. Some things have to be evaluated on a case-by-case basis, not everything can be judged the same way.

Yet you did by saying

No matter how bad the injury is and no matter how long you have it, if you end up dying from it, it's not immo 2. Period.

And

If we can't prove that he's going to die or that he can live indefinitely from this injury, then we can't prove anything, so no immo 2.

You set those as rules not case by case scenarios

They are already dead, that's why they have Immo 7, so they can't die from it, so Immo 2.

Irrelevant, even people with immo type 7 can die or something close to dying, many zombies in fiction are shown to still have a soul habitating a rotten corpse meaning they can still be killed in a normal generic sense by sending their souls to afterlife. Others are shown as empty bodies moving through sheer force of will which means thats supernatural willpower not immo type 7. Others are just empty bodies and just will vanish with EE or something like that, reagardless of their state there is a definition of death still left so they can still die, like for example the instant death guy who killed even non living things because for him death means them stop moving or not existing instead of normal death.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

I already did, the scan I linked earlier states that

If you actually had read it, you would have seen it.

Bruh my bad

It is, many characters are stated to be unkillable for their resurection or their really fast healing or even just because they are too strong to be hurt.

I still don't see how having an Immo 4/8 gives you an Immo 2 for Thor

Irrelevant without any statement you can't prove that he wouldn't die 10 years later if he spent all that time decapitated,

Except he has a statement, "unkillable"

Irrelevant.

Because?

Yet you did by saying

And

You set those as rules not case by case scenarios

Context is key: I was talking about Thor, and all in VS is it handled on a case-by-case basis

Irrelevant, even people with immo type 7 can die or something close to dying, many zombies in fiction are shown to still have a soul habitating a rotten corpse meaning they can still be killed in a normal generic sense by sending their souls to afterlife. Others are shown as empty bodies moving through sheer force of will which means thats supernatural willpower not immo type 7. Others are just empty bodies and just will vanish with EE or something like that, reagardless of their state there is a definition of death still left so they can still die, like for example the instant death guy who killed even non living things because for him death means them stop moving or not existing instead of normal death.

We're talking about Plants vs Zombies' Zombies, not all fictional zombies, and again it is handled on a case-by-case basis

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Bruh my bad


I still don't see how having an Immo 4/8 gives you an Immo 2


Except he has a statement, "unkillable"

Being "unkillable" is how any character that is hard to kill is described, characters are often called invincible because they can regenerate from any attack but that's not actual invincibility, being capable of regenerating or resurrect would still be called being "unkillable", and also Hidden died of malnutrition which means he can be killed as such being unkillable is false.

Because?





Context is key: I was talking about Thor, and all in VS is it handled on a case-by-case basis

Irrelevant when you made those rules you said those by your interpretation of the requirements to get immo type 2 and the requirements aren't case by case.

We're talking about Plants vs Zombies Zombies, not all fictional zombies, and it is handled on a case-by-case basis.

You set the burden of evidence by saying that unless stated they can survive forever with those injuries then no immo type 2, Plants vs Zombies don't have such statement as such the burden of evidence is on you to prove that they can survive forever not on me to prove they can die, as I said zombies and other undead creatures are differently portrayed across fiction so the word zombie doesn't mean immo type 2.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Being "unkillable" is how any character that is hard to kill is described, characters are often called invincible because they can regenerate from any attack but that's not actual invincibility, being capable of regenerating or resurrect would still be called being "unkillable", and also Hidden died of malnutrition which means he can be killed as such being unkillable is false.

Again, context is key. In Hidan's case it gives him an Immo 2, as it does for Thor's now.

Irrelevant when you made those rules you said those by your interpretation of the requirements to get immo type 2 and the requirements aren't case by case.

This is not my interpretation of immo 2 but the one accepted by the wiki, that's why Thor's Immo 2 was removed. And again, everything is handled on a case-by-case basis in VS, I was just talking about Thor.

You set the burden of evidence by saying that unless stated they can survive forever with those injuries then no immo type 2, Plants vs Zombies don't have such statement as such the burden of evidence is on you to prove that they can survive forever not on me to prove they can die, as I said zombies and other undead creatures are differently portrayed across fiction so the word zombie doesn't mean immo type 2.

I was just talking about Zombies from Plant vs Zombies. I feel like I'm talking to a wall dude seriously.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

The feat should also give Thor a regen upgrade I think (from High-Low, his current regen, to Mid)

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Oh btw Jean Grey probably needs to get upgraded in her base form as of Post X-Men: Red. She had multiple goat quotes even way back then, but Cassandra quite literally implied that Jean is stronger than she was back when they last met, when Jean had the Phoenix Force's powers. Jean then doubled down later on in X-Men: Red that the Phoenix Force was significantly holding back her power back then. This was also shown during her fight versus Xavier when it was revealed that Jean was somewhat holding back the Phoenix Force even back then. Also The Phoenix Force of all people straight up said Jean's untapped power as of X-Men: Hidden Years is almost limitless. If a Cosmic Entity like Phoenix Force remarks that your power is almost limitless, you kind of HAVE to take that to heart.

Combining ALL of that, she should be way higher than her current base tier suggests.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Oh btw Jean Grey probably needs to get upgraded in her base form as of Post X-Men: Red. She had multiple goat quotes even way back then, but Cassandra quite literally implied that Jean is stronger than she was back when they last met, when Jean had the Phoenix Force's powers. Jean then doubled down later on in X-Men: Red that the Phoenix Force was significantly holding back her power back then. This was also shown during her fight versus Xavier when it was revealed that Jean was somewhat holding back the Phoenix Force even back then. Also The Phoenix Force of all people straight up said Jean's untapped power as of X-Men: Hidden Years is almost limitless. If a Cosmic Entity like Phoenix Force remarks that your power is almost limitless, you kind of HAVE to take that to heart.

Combining ALL of that, she should be way higher than her current base tier suggests.

Now that you talk about Jean Grey who is Rouge?

 

[HenshinIntervention]

Is Black Winter supposed to be High 1-A? It seems to scale only to Abstract level stuff and the Abstracts got downgraded to 1-A on all keys

Black Winter

The Black Winter devoured the sixth iteration of the cosmos, leaving only a single survivor - Galan of Taa, who it chose as its Herald. Known vaguely to the Asgardians as the Fimbulwinter, its coming was prophesized to herald the beginning of Ragnarok. Seeking to take Galactus back into its...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Also the In-Betweener is still High 1-A

The In-Betweener

The In-Betweener is a fictional character that appears in comic books published by Marvel Comics. The character first appeared in Warlock #9 (Oct. 1974) and was created by Jim Starlin. By the In-Betweener's own admission, he represents duality itself, specifically in respect to concepts such as...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[LordTracer]

Whoever applied the upgrade from High 3-A to Low 1-C, you forgot some people.

• Beast (Marvel Comics)
• Cosmo (Marvel)
• Hope Summers
• Old Man Logan
• Squirrel Girl (Marvel Comics)

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I have a really genuine question about the Phoenix Five, if they have a literal 1/5th of the Phoenix Force, why in the love of all that is acceptable in the world are they not just straight up 1-A ? Like implying they are any lower than 1-A implies having a fifth of the Phoenix Force's powers somehow makes one unfathomably weaker than a fraction of a 1-A's powers, which doesn't make logical sense in any regard.

Also, Phoenix Force Cyclops could fight on par with the same Hope and Scarlet Witch who proceeded to erase the Phoenix Force. Like... Am I the only one who things how weird them being any lower than 1-A is ?

 

[HenshinIntervention]

I have a really genuine question about the Phoenix Five, if they have a literal 1/5th of the Phoenix Force, why in the love of all that is acceptable in the world are they not just straight up 1-A ? Like implying they are any lower than 1-A implies having a fifth of the Phoenix Force's powers somehow makes one unfathomably weaker than a fraction of a 1-A's powers, which doesn't make logical sense in any regard.

Also, Phoenix Force Cyclops could fight on par with the same Hope and Scarlet Witch who proceeded to erase the Phoenix Force. Like... Am I the only one who things how weird them being any lower than 1-A is ?

Only way I can see this being in any way valid is if fractions of the Phoenix only give them a selected amount of power from the Phoenix which I... Think is variable?

 

[Excellence616]

Whoever applied the upgrade from High 3-A to Low 1-C, you forgot some people.

• Beast (Marvel Comics)
• Cosmo (Marvel)
• Hope Summers
• Old Man Logan
• Squirrel Girl (Marvel Comics)

Done

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Done

Why does Hope summers have 3 keys on her P&A section but only 2 on the rest of the profile?

 

[Excellence616]

Why does Hope summers have 3 keys on her P&A section but only 2 on the rest of the profile?

One for her actual power, the other for Wanda's power she mimicked and the other as White Phoenix force

 

[Muteki616]

which doesn't make logical sense in any regard.

agreed