The Revenant Marvel Comics Discussion Thread

[MrKerf]

Judging by his story output alone he seems like the type of gleefully nearly completely unsympathetic and ideologically malevolently cruel and amoral human being that the world would have been a much better place if they had not been born.

That's a very dangerous way of thinking, my friend.

I, too, am not particularly fond of some of his writing decisions, but at least his stories have a certain structure that doesn't fold immediately (God knows, Krakoa era took a significant dip in logic after he departed).

 

[SamanPatou]

Ant, sometimes your opinions sound very extremist, moralist and borderline, tbh, sorry if I say that....

 

[Eseseso]

I simply didn't like how Krakoa not only allowed some of the most evil mutants to join freely, but was absurdly racist towards those who only got X-genes later in life (Franklin Richards) and just towards humans in general.

When Doctor Doom of all people is calling you a flat-out racist and mutant supremacist, you have a massive problem.

 

[Entity]

Stories can be amoral, heroes can do bad choices and sometimes they're forced to choose between an evil act and annihilation, good does not always wins against evil and sometimes good characters can become more morally questionable. It's good to have these kind of stories, obviously if they make sense and do not **** up completely a characterisation. Heroes are not perfect and cannot be perfect

I simply didn't like how Krakoa not only allowed some of the most evil mutants to join freely, but was absurdly racist towards those who only got X-genes later in life (Franklin Richards) and just towards humans in general.

something like this, for exemple, is completely forced and illogical, ruining the story

 

[Antvasima]

Ant, sometimes your opinions sound very extremist, moralist and borderline, tbh, sorry if I say that....

Sorry about that. I am definitely moralist, although I am not sure whether or not I am self-righteous, given that I have such a low opinion of my own current abilities to live up to my moral ideals. I am basically just continuously trying hard to strive towards them, but do not remotely perceive myself as some kind of ideal.

However, I do not think that it is extremist or borderline to strongly dislike when authors actively and systematically seem to try to idealise, normalise, and in effect help to indoctrinate their audiences to accept or even embrace, ridiculously extreme degrees of genuine evil and corruption, and/or systematically try to drain and defile all existential true hope, love, faith, and kindness out of life, and my impression of Hickman is that he is one of the recurring worst offenders in these areas among the authors I have analysed the works of.

That said, maybe he is a good person in his personal life, but is still actively causing poisonous malignant harm to culture and society through his creative work? People can definitely often be complicated or contradictory in that manner.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

I simply didn't like how Krakoa not only allowed some of the most evil mutants to join freely, but was absurdly racist towards those who only got X-genes later in life (Franklin Richards) and just towards humans in general.

When Doctor Doom of all people is calling you a flat-out racist and mutant supremacist, you have a massive problem.

And don’t get me started on how Xavier literally became the thing he hated the most from the start. That’s just… Okay I’m okay it’s the idea of mutants not having an upper limit to their mutant powers now (which I’m likely making a CRT for in the very near future detailing who gets affected by this retcon) , but all of this is crazy to me.

In Franklin’s case , even if he reality warped himself to be a mutant, he is still technically a mutate and has been an ally to mutant kind for as long as they can remember. Why on earth would they NOT want him on Krakoa or even the Fantastic Four as an ally to mutant kind ? That’s just… Dumb. On so many levels. Especially if Franklin fits the power requirement of being an Omega level mutant even without the x-gene…

Like… If I was Xavier I’d still allow him in. Like even ignoring the ethical aspects, having someone like Franklin in your corner will always be a good thing. For example, Him fighting Cormurant on even footing while running on fumes proves he’s still OP even at his worst, which is an insane implication, so keeping him around in case you need him is what I’d do at least

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

In Franklin’s case , even if he reality warped himself to be a mutant, he is still technically a mutate and has been an ally to mutant kind for as long as they can remember. Why on earth would they NOT want him on Krakoa or even the Fantastic Four as an ally to mutant kind ? That’s just… Dumb. On so many levels. Especially if Franklin fits the power requirement of being an Omega level mutant even without the x-gene…

Gwenpool did the same thing but was accepted just fine.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Gwenpool did the same thing but was accepted just fine.

It’s implied Krakoa straight up couldn’t detect what Gwenpool did

 

[Jimmy.robinson.5099]

Gwenpool did the same thing but was accepted just fine.

TBF, that whole story was kinda dumb.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

It’s implied Krakoa straight up couldn’t detect what Gwenpool did

Better be, she reconned herself that's some R>F **** right there

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

TBF, that whole story was kinda dumb.

I don't know what to say about the reason why she retconned herself into a mutant but the story that led to this happening was good.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Better be, she reconned herself that's some R>F **** right there

Considering her story/4th Wall powers is explicitly stated to only be limited by what the Author allows her to do (I.E: The only reason she doesn’t retcon all of Marvel is the Authors won’t let her do that, that’s literally stated in the comic btw), they do have an in comic explanation for her doing stuff like that.

 

[ShakeResounding]

I've read 8 deaths of spider-man yesterday.

I am super late to this, but I really enjoyed the 8 Deaths of Spider-Man as well.

I know Spidey often operates at his best when he's a street-leveler (or using his intelligence to sometimes reach above it), but the narrative for this story was very fitting. They brought him to the Cosmic level and kept the focus about his humanity (and humanity as a whole) all the while, even with such high stakes.

Tho the Spider-Juggernaut stuff was just dumb imo

Would it count as Social Influencing (Charisma) for Spidey, for being so heroic in actions and thoughts, that he is able to change Cyra and Cyttorak, showing the values of life to immortal beings and making Cyttorak himself be the shield that protects the dimension?

Absolutely. Additionally, he should have more added onto his Supernatural Willpower due to his handling of Cyra's challenge (feeling the deaths of thousands of others through the march of time rather than detaching from it as Strange had).

 

[FinePoint]

Snip

The frequency at which you bring up you-know-who is probably a bit much.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

Omega Level Mutant - Marvel Retcon (X-Men 2024 #13)

So, as of a recent retcon in X-Men (2024) #13, due to Quentin and Xavier fighting (I'm not explaining the context behind it, I still don't like the direction Marvel took Xavier and the X-Men, but we're moving on from that) , Xavier tells Quentin that Omega Level Mutants are classified as having...

vsbattles.com

Okay, I know I said in the very near future but I didn't really say it was going to be literally minutes later. I apologize for that.


But, I would appreciate help with this if someone is able to give it.

 

[Antvasima]

The frequency at which you bring up you-know-who is probably a bit much.

My apologies, but Apocalypse, Mystique, Mister Sinister, etc. genuinely are that evil, or even worse.

 

[FinePoint]

My apologies, but Apocalypse, Mystique, Mister Sinister, etc. genuinely are that evil, or even worse.

I understand that, but I also understand how it can be jarring to suddenly bring up real tragedies while discussing fictional characters.

 

[Antvasima]

As far as I am aware, the psychological context and influence of idealising and normalising pure satanic evil doesn't truly shift nearly as much as most people think between fictional and reality contexts. It still has similar effects. Absolutely amoral indoctrination is absolutely amoral indoctrination, even if one type of it has turned much more socially normalised.

 

[The_2nd_Existential_Seed]

With all due respect Antvasima, but is such topics even appropriate for a general marvel discussion thread considering the rules set in place here ? This is really teetering on the edge between 'fictional discussion' and 'political topics'.

 

[FinePoint]

Snip.

Well I'm not even disagreeing with you necessarily, and in fact I think trying to argue with you about that would be entirely pointless since your reasons are moral in nature.

I'm merely saying there's definitely ways to say someone is evil without invoking the Holocaust, and it would probably be more tonally appropriate.

 

[Antvasima]

Originally, before you pushed the issue, I only matter of fact stated that Hickman had the X-Men casually take orders from characters with casually genocidal supremacist ideological viewpoints and actions, which is matter of fact accurate as far as I am aware, and I am not sure how I should otherwise express it concisely, as the alternative would be to have to list the atrocities each of them have committed indepth, and which Hickman and other writers seem to be offhandedly borderline endorsing through their narratives.

 

[FinePoint]

Snip.

I mean, you could just mention genocide, torture, and systemic prosecution, which are the primary things you-know-who is guilty of.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I am just saying that it is my genuine impression from this type of in my view thoroughly irresponsible storytelling that works much the same way as regular propaganda, not that it is a proven fact, which falls under freedom of speech and thought as far as I am aware. I cannot go through life consistently lying about it.

 

[FinePoint]

Well, I am just saying that it is my genuine impression from this type of storytelling, not that it is a proven fact, which falls under freedom of speech as far as I am aware. I cannot go through life consistently lying about it.

Not everyone is as reasonable as you and I, so I'm simply saying it might be wise to be more careful about invoking very specific tragedies and political figures like that, if for nothing else then to avoid seriously offending anyone.

I'm not suggesting you lie about it, but perhaps being slightly more sensitive with the wording.

 

[Antvasima]

I can try to simply reword it as "normalising or even idealising ideologically genocidally supremacist villain characters, and thereby indirectly their types of mindsets" yes. It doesn't take much extra time to write.

 

[FinePoint]

I can try to simply reword it as "normalising or even idealising ideologically genocidally supremacist villain characters, and thereby indirectly their types of mindsets" yes. It doesn't take much extra time to write.

I think that's reasonable and far less likely to cause drama.
Thank you for being open to criticism. It's a rare trait.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I consistently reevaluate my personal viewpoints from new information, and strive towards continuously evolving spiritually, mentally, and emotionally, and I often get chewed out by our regular members without any negative repercussions whatsoever for them. I do have strong moral convictions, but I am continuously trying hard to be kind and helpful and not be unreasonable beyond that part.

 

[MrKerf]

I am super late to this, but I really enjoyed the 8 Deaths of Spider-Man as well.

I know right?! Haven't had this much fun in a looong time.

Tho the Spider-Juggernaut stuff was just dumb imo

True, but it gets a pass on being plausible, at least, in my book.

Also, in the air question, not to Snake in particular, I recall someone was making pages for Enigma and Dominions. Were those ever finished?

 

[Progrev228]

It was pretty funny what in verse demons get less hate than anybody despite being most evil group

 

[Entity]

For those who will do a Hulk upgrade, I can help them finding the scans necessary that are in the most recent runs

 

[Excellence616]

For those who will do a Hulk upgrade, I can help them finding the scans necessary that are in the most recent runs

I planning on Upgrading his Reactive Evolution and Adaption, his Intelligence to Gifted via Usually Magical Thinking for Savage Hulk and other Hulk persona, Possible Super Genius for Banner (since he is smarter than Stark and Hank) and others.

 

[Entity]

I planning on Upgrading his Reactive Evolution and Adaption

There are some broken scan in his notable attacks for RE and Adaptation

his Intelligence to Gifted via Usually Magical Thinking for Savage Hulk and other Hulk persona

Could this give Devil Hulk limited/unconventional precognition, since he understood there would be a moment in which stripping Joe of his Hulk body would be foundamental?

Possible Super Genius for Banner (since he is smarter than Stark and Hank) and others.

You could use the supermath to argue this, since Amadeus Cho theorises that Hulk has that too and that is how he was able to not kill anyone in his rampages

And there are more haxxes that could be added

 

[Excellence616]

There are some broken scan in his notable attacks for RE and Adaptation

Imgur has issues

Could this give Devil Hulk limited/unconventional precognition, since he understood there would be a moment in which stripping Joe of his Hulk body would be foundamental?

idk but i would check it out

You could use the supermath to argue this, since Amadeus Cho theorises that Hulk has that too and that is how he was able to not kill anyone in his rampages

That would be part of the CRT for sure.

And there are more haxxes that could be added

Yeah, there are others too

 

[Entity]

Yeah, there are others too

You could DM me with a list? So I could add something if possible

 

[Antvasima]

Imgur has issues

It supposedly works much better for hosting images if the people who upload them at logged in at the time and do not unnecessarily mark the images as NSFW.

 

[AcidSilver]

Cool, another feat for the Eternity Mask. Loki uses it to kill an Elder God. Though I don't know if this is better than its feat for being able to match Anti All or not, though my gut tells me that Anti All is way stronger than Kemur.

 

[Antvasima]

The Anti-All is far stronger as far as I am aware.

 

[AcidSilver]

Though is this the first time the mask has been used as a weapon instead of just as a mask?

 

[Antvasima]

I think so, yes. Loki likely used their narrative manipulation powers.

 

[Antvasima]

News about what is going to happen with Thor:

Thor Gets a New Identity in Thor #1 by Al Ewing and Pasqual Ferry

Thor gets a new identity, or something, in Thor #1 by Al Ewing and Pasqual Ferry, from Marvel Comics in August

bleedingcool.com

As long as Thor remains the same person, with the same noble and sympathetic values and characterisation, I do not at all mind bonding him to an apparently African-American human male. It will both give a kick against any remaining genuinely racist fanbase and hopefully remove most of the overly neurotic storytelling surrounding the character in recent years because of said racist fanbase.