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The pages for AKIRA are outdated as hell!!

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Cyberblader90 said:
Not sure "at least" is needed
Click to expand...
ok. well the scaling for the other characters are already pretty clear cut. all the other espers(minus Akira) can scale to takashi as he seemed to be the strongest of esper children(masaru, kiyoko). also, could tetsuo have some type of soul manip? he almost brought kayori back to life but failed
 
Thank you. It seems like we have an agreement about what statistics that Tetsuo should have then.
 
i think his(tetsuo)last key should be "awakened" this key starts at the very end of the manga before tetsuo dies, he creates a blast very similar to the one Akira makes. whats confusing about this key and volume 5's key is that it possible that they are both low 2-C, but i think its safer to say that possibly 5-B is good enough. By the way, should we take this discussion to general threads? this isn't much of a CRT anymore, and is more of an entire verse rework.
 
A verse rework is still a content revisions thread.

Anyway, what are the arguments and evidence for Low 2-C?
 
Just to ask, why don't Sukuna or Alucard (Rosario + Vampire) have 5-B keys, they have consistent world destroying statements
 
Antvasima said:
A verse rework is still a content revisions thread.

Anyway, what are the arguments and evidence for Low 2-C?
Click to expand...
akira is 2-C because we know the "explosions" are linked with creations of new universes, teteuo himself crrated a minature big bang in volume 4, but this was stated to be less powerful than akiras explosion.
 
The issue here is that Tetsuo’s big bang is… weird. It’s very clearly not combat relevant, seeing how Kaneda and the rest of his world remained intact. Tetsuo was also not in control at all, and required Akira to guide him in order to achieve enlightenment and create that new universe. So, sure, Tetsuo is probably more powerful, but he’s never used that power in combat, nor do we even know if he could. He needed direct outside influence to reach the point where he could create a universe in the first place, and to top it all off, he only reached that level of power after uncontrollably mutating and transforming into a giant, grotesque fetus.


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Addressing the manga’s “big bang” feat which some claim to place Tetsuo at big-bang levels, this is also pretty easily disproven. At a glance, it does appear that this is a legitimate big bang being created in some shape or form.

Here’s the issue.

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As it turns out, the events playing out in this sequence are the memories of Tetsuo, and we know that Tetsuo is being consumed by Akira, as Kei puts it. There’s two ways to look at this, neither of which imply Tetsuo could create a big bang.
  1. Akira is recreating everything we see here. This would mean that Akira is powerful enough to do this, but also clearly vastly superior to Tetsuo, since he’s consuming Tetsuo at the same time.
  2. More likely, these are all projections and not literal. Kei later calls all of these sequences “illusions”, which makes sense when considering the wording used to describe “the memory of an entire universe”. These are espers, psychics, who deal with mental projection and readings. It’s far more likely that these are indeed just illusions and mental images, not literal feats on a universal scale.

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In case there was any doubt about Akira being superior to Tetsuo for the vast majority of the manga, if not all of it.
 
as for the anime:

I think it's a lot more likely than the manga, for sure, though IIRC the only basis for it is the scientist guy saying this? Which is hardly concrete, the statement itself is an estimate/guess in and of itself
https://cdn.**********.com/attachments/769234969641877525/879404541378965554/unknown.png
It would be weird to equate Tetsuo's feat to a big bang and then immediately show that the feat barely affected a city in the end, and we never actually see a whole new universe at the end, just some nebulous indistinct space with Tetsuo's voice

Not to mention there's still the issue of Tetsuo not being in control of this in the slightest, it taking a super long time to pull off, the obvious strain he has to go through, etc etc

tl;dr if you wanted to use the movie for uni Tetsuo, sure I guess? I don't think it's infallible but theres more supporting it than the manga, but even the movie has plenty of practical issues
 
Tldr

-The actual impact we see directly contradicts the statement of it being a big bang or big bang-esque event
-Another explanation could just as easily be that Tetsuo and the others ascend to a higher level of existence, which would not necessarily mean they're universal in power or needed to create one
-Tetsuo has absolutely no agency over this power whatsoever
-This power takes a long time to reach the 'universal' level, if you assume it to be that
-The scientist guy could just be wrong, he does state "if this is correct", which, it totally could be. Just because there's a statement that it 'could' be doesn't mean it is
 
the gross mutant part was him getting stronger, his body simply couldn't contain or control the massive amount of power inside him, leading to him not being able to use it potently. but when kei used sol to fire on tetsuo one last time, it pushed his power to its apex and he made an explosion just like akiras without help. this could be a misunderstanding of how their "power" works. tetsuo himself doesn't like to call it that, as seen in volume 5 when speaking to the scientists. their power is a result of manipulating the "memory of the universe" and "the stream" directing it through them. this is why its not really telekinesis, as just a very wide array of abilities. like how tetsuo can for some reason increase gravity.

TL;DR: Tetsuos power was simply not at its strongest, when it did he created a "big bang" and it is combat applicable cause it BFRs anyone who goes inside it to some place outside the universe itself. there power in of itself is confusing cause its not really "power" but more like directing a universal stream of energy and time. ill speak more later in a more organized fashion.
 
that really doesn't address the main issue with the manga one:

As it turns out, the events playing out in this sequence are the memories of Tetsuo, and we know that Tetsuo is being consumed by Akira, as Kei puts it. There’s two ways to look at this, neither of which imply Tetsuo could create a big bang. Akira is recreating everything we see here. This would mean that Akira is powerful enough to do this, but also clearly vastly superior to Tetsuo, since he’s consuming Tetsuo at the same time. More likely, these are all projections and not literal. Kei later calls all of these sequences “illusions”, which makes sense when considering the wording used to describe “the memory of an entire universe”. These are espers, psychics, who deal with mental projection and readings. It’s far more likely that these are indeed just illusions and mental images, not literal feats on a universal scale.
Click to expand...
 
Please explain the context. From those scans it seems like Tetsuo and Akira are channelling power created by the Big Bang, not like they are able to create universes on their own.
 
Cyberblader90 said:
except we see what happens at the end:

0006-331.png



0006-332.png


0006-333.png


0006-334.png


0006-335.png


0006-336.png


0006-362.png


Akira's surge dwarfs tetsuo, rips him apart, and we are told akira is absorbing tetsuo
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of course akira is stronger than tetsuo, they wanted to "bury" akira, not kill him. tetsuos power could still be in the ball park of akiras but not close to it. also it didn't "dwarf" it looks bigger because its in the air not on the ground, meaning it can be a full sphere now. also, that size was while it was absorbing tetsuos explosion, meaning it may have gotten larger. annyways what im saying is

Akira>Tetsuo>>>anyone else in the verse. pretty much that.
 
Cyberblader90 said:
thats because they dont create universes. they tap into a fundamental aspect of the universe, "the stream"
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taking everything into account, i think for both their final keys(akira and tetsuo) should be unknown. we know some type of new space was created by akira, because in tetsuos "mini big bang" he brought everything back akira took in volume 3. but im not sure if a new timespace was created, or if it was just a pocket dimension outside the universe.
 
Whycantinamemyself said:
taking everything into account, i think for both their final keys(akira and tetsuo) should be unknown. we know some type of new space was created by akira, because in tetsuos "mini big bang" he brought everything back akira took in volume 3. but im not sure if a new timespace was created, or if it was just a pocket dimension outside the universe.
Click to expand...
id be fine with this
 
Cyberblader90 said:
but tetsuo got torn apart by akira, they werent even depicted a relative in this moment
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tetsuo is relative to akira, this arguement makes no sense because wouldn't kaneda be destroyed if tetsuo if being ripped apart? tetsuo was being erased because akira absorbed him and then sent all of them to a higher plane of existence, this is an arguement that tetsuo is weaker than akira, but not that akira dwarfs his power.
 
Cyberblader90 said:
as for the anime:

I think it's a lot more likely than the manga, for sure, though IIRC the only basis for it is the scientist guy saying this? Which is hardly concrete, the statement itself is an estimate/guess in and of itself
https://cdn.**********.com/attachments/769234969641877525/879404541378965554/unknown.png
It would be weird to equate Tetsuo's feat to a big bang and then immediately show that the feat barely affected a city in the end, and we never actually see a whole new universe at the end, just some nebulous indistinct space with Tetsuo's voice

Not to mention there's still the issue of Tetsuo not being in control of this in the slightest, it taking a super long time to pull off, the obvious strain he has to go through, etc etc

tl;dr if you wanted to use the movie for uni Tetsuo, sure I guess? I don't think it's infallible but theres more supporting it than the manga, but even the movie has plenty of practical issues
Click to expand...
tetsuo did create a big bang in the movie but only with exterior help, akira and akira alone did. tetsuo only did once he controlled his power, but that was heavily with exterior help.
 
Whycantinamemyself said:
tetsuo is relative to akira, this arguement makes no sense because wouldn't kaneda be destroyed if tetsuo if being ripped apart? tetsuo was being erased because akira absorbed him and then sent all of them to a higher plane of existence, this is an arguement that tetsuo is weaker than akira, but not that akira dwarfs his power.
Click to expand...
this just further justifies your unknown proposal, but im fine with us treating them relativish, but akira as the superior
 
Whycantinamemyself said:
tetsuo did create a big bang in the movie but only with exterior help, akira and akira alone did. tetsuo only did once he controlled his power, but that was heavily with exterior help.
Click to expand...
ill need to rewatch the ending. from what i recall its kind of speculative.


-The actual impact we see directly contradicts the statement of it being a big bang or big bang-esque event
-Another explanation could just as easily be that Tetsuo and the others ascend to a higher level of existence, which would not necessarily mean they're universal in power or needed to create one
-Tetsuo has absolutely no agency over this power whatsoever
-This power takes a long time to reach the 'universal' level, if you assume it to be that
-The scientist guy could just be wrong, he does state "if this is correct", which, it totally could be. Just because there's a statement that it 'could' be doesn't mean it is
 
Cyberblader90 said:
ill need to rewatch the ending. from what i recall its kind of speculative.


-The actual impact we see directly contradicts the statement of it being a big bang or big bang-esque event
-Another explanation could just as easily be that Tetsuo and the others ascend to a higher level of existence, which would not necessarily mean they're universal in power or needed to create one
-Tetsuo has absolutely no agency over this power whatsoever
-This power takes a long time to reach the 'universal' level, if you assume it to be that
-The scientist guy could just be wrong, he does state "if this is correct", which, it totally could be. Just because there's a statement that it 'could' be doesn't mean it is
Click to expand...
its more kinda like this, tetsuo mutates, akira creates an explosion, tetsuo is swallowed by the explosion, akira teaches him to control his powers, and tetsuo creates new unvierse. this is further implied by the quote "I am, Tetsuo" signifying a transcendence into a godlike being.
 
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