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The Omnitrix functioning even with Ben's hand being chopped

Eficiente

Eficiente

He/Him
VS Battles
Thread Moderator
15,441
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So, giving the resent DB and its result, I saw many people saying that the Omnitrix can function on its own and that cutting off Ben's hand wouldn't give him a lose.

I see nothing about this on any profile, and almost never see evidence of this, only on this blog I read where does it come from and wouldn't you know it, I disagree with it.

Ben's hand wasn't truely chopped, it was still functional with Ben's body due to being conencted to it through Spatial Manipulation. Pretty much like having part of one's body inside a portal.

As such I believe a note should be made on his and the Omnitrix's profiles to clarify this matter.
 
Just so I understand this clearly, what are you asking for exactly Eficiente? You want a note specifying that the Omnitrix is useless if Bens hand is chopped off?
 
A "Contrary to popular belief" type of note, yes. We do that.
 
Okay. Then yes i'll agree with this.

Being 100% honest, this kind of thing is a surprise to me. It usually never occurs to me that Ben's omnitrix could be made useless if his hand is cut off.

The Failsafe being able to work, even if its disconnected from Bens body, doesnt seem to have any evidence for it and seems kind of NLFish if not carefully used. So I agree it should be a weakness to be noted on his page.
 
I think at one point Ben did loose his hand with the Omnitrix for reasons and ''it started walking on it's own''
 
It walked on its own but needed assistance from other people to turn the dial so it could turn Ben into an alien and reunite him with the Omnitrix.

But yeah.
 
Eficiente said:
So, giving the resent DB and its result, I saw many people saying that the Omnitrix can function on its own and that cutting off Ben's hand wouldn't give him a lose.
I see nothing about this on any profile, and almost never see evidence of this, only on this blog I read where does it come from and wouldn't you know it, I disagree with it.

Ben's hand wasn't truely chopped, it was still functional with Ben's body due to being conencted to it through Spatial Manipulation. Pretty much like having part of one's body inside a portal.

As such I believe a note should be made on his and the Omnitrix's profiles to clarify this matter.
Click to expand...
A hand can still be functionally and reattachable when separated from the body. Within a certain amount of time of course.
 
And plus, the moment someone would try to cutt off bens arm or even attack him and his not able to react in time, he'd automatically transform into an alien suited for whatever hit him. As seen here. Literally the first 28 seconds of the video and 0:29-49 here.
 
Yes and thats not the point of this thread.

Obviously if it can be prevented, Bens Omnitrix will save him. But if his hand actually gets cut off, then hes powerless. That is the weakness.

And the former is assuming the Omnitrix will automatically know and have a counter measure for any x threat that comes to Ben, which can easiily sound like an NLF.
 
Trying to cut bens arm off is trying to hurt ben or possibly end his life correct? Then it automatically applies to the failsafe.

Did you not watch the two videos or did you ignore them? The omnitrix transformed ben into BigChill an alien that can phase through solid objects, like i don't know, a big-ass boluder? And same with the New Dawn, it cycled from bens many aliens until it stopped at an alien that could hold on to the massive amount of energy in his hands, i.e Feedback, an energy manipulator. Stop claiming NLF please, obviously a being higher then any alien ben has would negate that.
 
Peter "Quicksilver" Maximoff said:
Trying to cut bens arm off is trying to hurt ben or possibly end his life correct? Then it automatically applies to the failsafe.
Click to expand...
And again, your still missing the point.

I dont really care if the Omnitrix's failsafe activates in time to save Ben. That is not the point. The point that the OP is saying is that if an opponent manages to successfully cut Ben's hand off, then the Omnitrix at that point cannot be used anymore. Which is the weakness that is being suggested.

It has nothing to do with whether or not the Failsafe will activate in time, but whether it can activate post-hand being cut off, which it cannot.

Peter "Quicksilver" Maximoff said:
Did you not watch the two videos or did you ignore them?
Click to expand...
They have nothing to do with the point im trying to explain here so yes im ignoring them. The omnitrix activating in time to save Ben is not whats the issue.

The issue is if it can activate after his hand is cut off.

Peter "Quicksilver" Maximoff said:
Stop claiming NLF please, obviously a being higher then any alien ben has would negate that.
Click to expand...
Its not just a matter of strength but the complexity of the opponents entire arsenal of powers, not to mention how foreign they are to the Omnitrix since the said opponent is from an entirely different verse than it is.

The Omnitrix will not automatically always be aware of what threat the opponents abilities have against ben, stronger or not. So anyone claiming that the Failsafe would auto give Ben an ailen to take on a power that even the Omnitrix itself would not understand entirely would potentially become a No Limits Fallacy easily.
 
I agree with Kukui if we're talking about AFTER the cut to the arm happens, because it assumes the arm was already cut off and that the failsafe failed somehow.
 
Cutting off Ben's Arm being a weakness is like saying cutting off Gold Expirience Requiem's head is a weakness. If the character in question is strong enough to exploit the weakness, then they probably could beat them in a fair fight normally.
 
Amexim said:
Well, yeah, but it's one of those things that needs clarifying anyway.
Click to expand...
This.

The Failsafe has 0 feats of activating when not connected to Ben's body (barring the portal instance, which Efficiente himself explained is just spatial manipulation), so this is something that should be clarified on Ben's page.
 
Technically, the hand only needed people to activate it because Ben didn't have Master Control active. Logically speaking, if master control was active, the hand would have just switched into whatever hero would have helped Ben at the time.
 
"And again, your still missing the point.

I dont really care if the Omnitrix's failsafe activates in time to save Ben. That is not the point. The point that the OP is saying is that if an opponent manages to successfully cut Ben's hand off, then the Omnitrix at that point cannot be used anymore. Which is the weakness that is being suggested.

It has nothing to do with whether or not the Failsafe will activate in time, but whether it can activate post-hand being cut off, which it cannot."

That's a case by case scenario, it depeneds on if the opponet is smart enough to figure that out.

"They have nothing to do with the point im trying to explain here so yes im ignoring them. The omnitrix activating in time to save Ben is not whats the issue.

"The issue is if it can activate after his hand is cut off."

Like i said case by case scenario.

Its not just a matter of strength but the complexity of the opponents entire arsenal of powers, not to mention how foreign they are to the Omnitrix since the said opponent is from an entirely different verse than it is.

The Omnitrix will not automatically always be aware of what threat the opponents abilities have against ben, stronger or not. So anyone claiming that the Failsafe would auto give Ben an ailen to take on a power that even the Omnitrix itself would not understand entirely would potentially become a No Limits Fallacy easily."

How complex are we talking here? Again, i said "Stop claiming NLF please, obviously a being higher then any alien ben has would negate that. " I don't know how to be more clearer than that.
 
i think there was a video explaining the db battle and that if ben`s arm gets cut off it is still count as forcing the watch off of him meaning that would activate the failsafe
 
>That's a case by case scenario, it depeneds on if the opponet is smart enough to figure that out.

Um, what does this have to do with the Failsafe not being able to be activated post-hand cut?

>Like i said case by case scenario.

See above.

>How complex are we talking here? Again, i said "Stop claiming NLF please, obviously a being higher then any alien ben has would negate that. " I don't know how to be more clearer than that.

As complex as being from an entirely different universe? Unless the opponent has abilities that the Omnitrix would easily recognize as being similar to the opponents Ben has went up against, im pretty sure I dont need to explain any further than that.

And "higher" is not exactly clear. Your argument is pushing the narrative that it isnt an NLF just because the opponent is stronger than Ben in every way. And thats not the only issue as i've already pointed out.

>i think there was a video explaining the db battle and that if ben`s arm gets cut off it is still count as forcing the watch off of him meaning that would activate the failsafe.

Just because a fan explained the battle doesnt mean it automatically becomes evidence, unless you want SethTheProgammer to be added to the equation.

Anyway, cutting Bens arm wouldnt actually be the same as forcing the Omnitrix off of him because the Omnitrix is still attached to a form of Bens DNA: his hand.

In order for it to count as "forcing it off" of Ben, the Omnitrix has to be forcefully removed from something with Bens DNA as it locks onto that. Even if Bens hand/arm is cut off, that wouldnt apply because the Omnitrix would still be attached to his hand, thus locked on to Bens DNA. It just wouldnt be physically connected to Bens body.
 
>That's a case by case scenario, it depeneds on if the opponet is smart enough to figure that out.

"Um, what does this have to do with the Failsafe not being able to be activated post-hand cut?"

Sigh, ignoring this, because i can't be any more clearer.

>How complex are we talking here? Again, i said "Stop claiming NLF please, obviously a being higher then any alien ben has would negate that. " I don't know how to be more clearer than that.

"As complex as being from an entirely different universe? Unless the opponent has abilities that the Omnitrix would easily recognize as being similar to the opponents Ben has went up against, im pretty sure I dont need to explain any further than that.

And "higher" is not exactly clear. Your argument is pushing the narrative that it isnt an NLF just because the opponent is stronger than Ben in every way. And thats not the only issue as i've already pointed out."

They're a million and two (meaning alot) fictional characters that have same power sets as people ben has faced aganist, the chances of that happening is greater to facing an someone who doesn't have a power the omnitrix doesn't recongize.

I don't know how it isn't, a being that is above all of bens aliens will negate that, literally said that 3-4 times now.

>i think there was a video explaining the db battle and that if ben`s arm gets cut off it is still count as forcing the watch off of him meaning that would activate the failsafe.

"Just because a fan explained the battle doesnt mean it automatically becomes evidence, unless you want SethTheProgammer to be added to the equation.

Anyway, cutting Bens arm wouldnt actually be the same as forcing the Omnitrix off of him because the Omnitrix is still attached to a form of Bens DNA: his hand.

In order for it to count as "forcing it off" of Ben, the Omnitrix has to be forcefully removed from something with Bens DNA as it locks onto that. Even if Bens hand/arm is cut off, that wouldnt apply because the Omnitrix would still be attached to his hand, thus locked on to Bens DNA. It just wouldnt be physically connected to Bens body."

If he's points make sense and can't be refuted, it kinda does. And i highly recommend watching it, it's very insightful. Also Seth is a....special person to say the least, so i don't it's right for you to compare himn to kuro if your implying that.

Even though bens hand was disconnected through spatial manipulation or whatever, he was still able to transform into aliens and what not, and the only reason that was the case through outside help is because ben was transported to another dimension, i'm sure if bens hand cutt off and not transported to another dimension, he'll be able to transform, through voice command or manully and after that he won't need the omntrix on his hand to tranform anymore as you explained above, it's locked into bens dna.
 
Probably wrong, but I've heard Ben has something akin to Type 8 Immortality via his Watch. How much truth is to that?
 
>Sigh, ignoring this, because i can't be any more clearer.

Okay. Concession accepted then I guess.

>They're a million and two (meaning alot) fictional characters that have same power sets as people ben has faced aganist, the chances of that happening is greater to facing an someone who doesn't have a power the omnitrix doesn't recongize.

Yes and im very certain some of those characters abilities are more complex than they appear on paper. But even ignoring this, alot =/ = all and misses the point.

>I don't know how it isn't, a being that is above all of bens aliens will negate that, literally said that 3-4 times now.

Because simply being above another character is not all that it takes to stop something from being an NLF?

>If he's points make sense and can't be refuted, it kinda does.

Show me a character on this site that uses fan-arguments as evidence for their capabilities and i'll be more inclined to agree with you on this point.

>Even though bens hand was disconnected through spatial manipulation or whatever

Eficiente already debunked this. Bens hand wasnt truly disconnected, it was still connected to him via spatial manipulation. Similar to someone putting their hand through a portal.

>he was still able to transform into aliens and what not, and the only reason that was the case through outside help is because ben was transported to another dimension

See above

>i'm sure if bens hand cutt off and not transported to another dimension, he'll be able to transform, through voice command or manully and after that he won't need the omntrix on his hand to tranform anymore

He actually would, even with voice command or manual control, because the issue is that the Omnitrix would no longer be physically connected to his body. So even if Ben could activate the Omnitrix, only his hand would be transforming into the alien at that point, not Ben himself.
 
Ben didn't feel a thing that was happening to his hand throughout the episode when his hand got his hand cutoff, it was even acting on its own (Which is a point that I forgot to make) and he still didn't feel anything... If it wasn't truly disconnected how would that be happening?
 
"Show me a character on this site that uses fan-arguments as evidence for their capabilities and i'll be more inclined to agree with you on this point."

His arguments are inclined to our ratings and such here, so it's not worth ignoring and plus this entire wiki is based off of fan opinion in a way, just like other VS communities they've their own opinion and such as whole and so do we.
 
Fail-safe only acts when in a life-threatening scenario, yeah?

Other incarnations only had a pulse blast as a protection, yeah?

If yoir durability is enough to exceed the pulse blast's shown capabilities, then there's no proof a more durable character can't just force it off through intangible hax or matter manipulation/spatial manipulation. The watch being taken off isn't a fatal scenario, is it? Meanwhile, when Ben is in danger, it will act, but Ben wouldn't be in a fatal scenario should someone force it off.

Is there anything going against what I said? Because most fans said the fail-safe only existed in Omniverse. I do believe someone said there was a time Ben got coveres in large rocks and was smashed into a puddle or something but he still manahed to phase through as Ghostfreak, though? Or maybe he wasn't a puddle and it was simply a feat of durability?

Did the fail-safe act even when people tried to force it off? Like, is that even an established thing? Cause I think most people just assume they're related when they don't apparently seem to be unless I see evidence toward the contrary.
 
Basically, being a real durable dude and then forcing Ben's watch off isn't a fatal scenario, and unless there's proof the fail-safe can work, there's nothing saying someone can't incapacitate Ben through some means and then force the Omnitrix off should they be able to just tank the pulse blast it gives off when others try to touch it. Don't think the pulse blast has universal showings, so if you're stronger than the strongest thing it defended against, there's nothing, at least to my knowledge, showing you can't just take it off at that point.

As for the fail-safe, even if he wasn't incapacitated, ripping it off his skin after tanking or absorbing the blast it does to try and repel you isn't fatal nor life-threatening to Ben, is it?

The fail-safe isn't so loosely-defined, so lots of things can work should you be able to reasonably tank the pulse blast it sends off to try and fend others off.

Also, would soneone using Absolute Zero to freeze Ben in one of hus forms count as an incap? The Omnitrix hasn't shiwn resistance to Absolute Zero temps, has it? If not, then it gets frozen from the inside-out and thus can't function properly enough so Ben gets shattered. I know there's Big Chill, but Absolute Zero is basically the greatest form of Ice and Cold Manipulation you can get, which U don't believe I've seen mentioned for Big Chill.
 
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