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The hunter fights an idol

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Where is Hunter's 9-A rating coming from? The Remington gun, the T-rex's kinetic energy, the energy of real life T-rexs, and the grenades the T-rex can tank, none of them are 9-A. They cap at 9-B. Is there an error, or am I missing something?

Anyway, Hunter's supply ship is irrelevant because they're inside a warehouse. He's got his shotgun, pistol, and his animal sound imitation, so he has range on his side.
Any hit from Suisei, either from her weapons or her superior LS, defeats Hunter, not to mention the BFR. Because of the location, her ability to shrink would be valuable. (I don't know why you include Suisei's sushi, it's not a combat ability. It's not something that can realistically be used in battle.)
They are equalized to Superhuman reactions, but Suisei retains her faster movement speed.

I'm leaning towards Suisei
 
GoldenScorpions said:
Where is Hunter's 9-A rating coming from? The Remington gun, the T-rex's kinetic energy, the energy of real life T-rexs, and the grenades the T-rex can tank, none of them are 9-A. They cap at 9-B. Is there an error, or am I missing something?

Anyway, Hunter's supply ship is irrelevant because they're inside a warehouse. He's got his shotgun, pistol, and his animal sound imitation, so he has range on his side.
Any hit from Suisei, either from her weapons or her superior LS, defeats Hunter, not to mention the BFR. Because of the location, her ability to shrink would be valuable. (I don't know why you include Suisei's sushi, it's not a combat ability. It's not something that can realistically be used in battle.)
They are equalized to Superhuman reactions, but Suisei retains her faster movement speed.

I'm leaning towards Suisei
Click to expand...
The 9-A comes from the fact his guns can kill the T-Rex who upscales from ceolophysis who did this

vsbattles.fandom.com

Coelophysis destroys a bridge (Carnivores)

vsbattles.fandom.com vsbattles.fandom.com
 
It's really not optimal to need to go through 3 links to get to the relevant feat. Hunter should have the feat linked to his profile, too.
 
So they essentially one-shot each other.
I think that, specifically because of the location, Hunter's range advantage isn't as important as it would be otherwise. It's still good, but all the materials, containers and items stocked inside the warehouse makes cover far easier. Suisei's faster movement and shrinking should give ample opportunity to get close to Hunter.
 
GoldenScorpions said:
Where is Hunter's 9-A rating coming from? The Remington gun, the T-rex's kinetic energy, the energy of real life T-rexs, and the grenades the T-rex can tank, none of them are 9-A. They cap at 9-B. Is there an error, or am I missing something?

Anyway, Hunter's supply ship is irrelevant because they're inside a warehouse. He's got his shotgun, pistol, and his animal sound imitation, so he has range on his side.
Any hit from Suisei, either from her weapons or her superior LS, defeats Hunter, not to mention the BFR. Because of the location, her ability to shrink would be valuable. (I don't know why you include Suisei's sushi, it's not a combat ability. It's not something that can realistically be used in battle.)
They are equalized to Superhuman reactions, but Suisei retains her faster movement speed.

I'm leaning towards Suisei
Click to expand...
Btw that in tons of tnt is
GoldenScorpions said:
So they essentially one-shot each other.
I think that, specifically because of the location, Hunter's range advantage isn't as important as it would be otherwise. It's still good, but all the materials, containers and items stocked inside the warehouse makes cover far easier. Suisei's faster movement and shrinking should give ample opportunity to get close to Hunter.
Click to expand...
So are you voting for suisei?
 
GoldenScorpions said:
So they essentially one-shot each other.
I think that, specifically because of the location, Hunter's range advantage isn't as important as it would be otherwise. It's still good, but all the materials, containers and items stocked inside the warehouse makes cover far easier. Suisei's faster movement and shrinking should give ample opportunity to get close to Hunter.
Click to expand...
Yeah is the shrinking in-character?
 
GoldenScorpions said:
They are equalized to Superhuman reactions, but Suisei retains her faster movement speed.
Click to expand...
Speed Equalization Rules and Assumptions make it so the combat speed of the faster character is decreased to be equal to the combat speed of the slower character, and the other types of speed of the faster character gets reduced by the same amount of times. What is Suisei's combat speed? Her profile only has her own movement speed and the speed of her cardboard train.
GoldenScorpions said:
It's really not optimal to need to go through 3 links to get to the relevant feat. Hunter should have the feat linked to his profile, too.
Click to expand...
I had brought this up in a different versus thread because I also found the Hunter's attack potency justification a bit odd, so that makes two people.
 
GoldenScorpions said:
Where is Hunter's 9-A rating coming from? The Remington gun, the T-rex's kinetic energy, the energy of real life T-rexs, and the grenades the T-rex can tank, none of them are 9-A. They cap at 9-B. Is there an error, or am I missing something?

Anyway, Hunter's supply ship is irrelevant because they're inside a warehouse. He's got his shotgun, pistol, and his animal sound imitation, so he has range on his side.
Any hit from Suisei, either from her weapons or her superior LS, defeats Hunter, not to mention the BFR. Because of the location, her ability to shrink would be valuable. (I don't know why you include Suisei's sushi, it's not a combat ability. It's not something that can realistically be used in battle.)
They are equalized to Superhuman reactions, but Suisei retains her faster movement speed.
Click to expand...
GoldenScorpions said:
So they essentially one-shot each other.
I think that, specifically because of the location, Hunter's range advantage isn't as important as it would be otherwise. It's still good, but all the materials, containers and items stocked inside the warehouse makes cover far easier. Suisei's faster movement and shrinking should give ample opportunity to get close to Hunter.
Click to expand...
I vote for Suisei winning the battle for the quoted reasons, aside from what is mentioned about speed because I would like that to be clarified.
 
James_Plays_4_Games said:
I vote for Suisei winning the battle for the quoted reasons, aside from what is mentioned about speed because I would like that to be clarified.
Click to expand...
From what I have seen on other threads, Suisei just confronts her opponent head on. Her first move isn't gonna be shrinking to sneak up on people.
 
AThe1412 said:
From what I have seen on other threads, Suisei just confronts her opponent head on. Her first move isn't gonna be shrinking to sneak up on people.
Click to expand...
I don't know how accurate those other threads are. Was it something like a member who knows about Holo no Graffiti attesting that this is how Suisei fights?
 
Well, since Suisei doesn't seem to start her fights with shrinking, I think the Hunter just shoots her on sight and win. Even if she does shrink, he can probably still hear the sound of her chainsaw as she's moving towards him.
 
AThe1412 said:
Well, since Suisei doesn't seem to start her fights with shrinking, I think the Hunter just shoots her on sight and win. Even if she does shrink, he can probably still hear the sound of her chainsaw as she's moving towards him.
Click to expand...
Does she still manage to hit him sometimes on occasion?
 
Artorimachi_Meteoraft said:
Does she still manage to hit him sometimes on occasion?
Click to expand...
I mean, he probably wouldn't expect a tiny little person sneaking up on him without prior knowledge so yeah. This is also assuming that she goes for the chainsaw (which is the weapon she most likely starts with from what I have seen on previous matches) when she also has a flail, a polearm, and a nailed bat.
 
I would argue that, against a gunner, shrinking is more likely to happen in order to effectively close the distance between them.
There's also nothing that indicates Suisei would use the chainsaw more often than other weapons.
 
GoldenScorpions said:
I would argue that, against a gunner, shrinking is more likely to happen in order to effectively close the distance between them.
There's also nothing that indicates Suisei would use the chainsaw more often than other weapons.
Click to expand...
1. Susie wouldn't know that she's fighting a gunman until she sees the Hunter. That requires prior knowledge.
2. Wouldn't shrinking actually make it harder to close the distance because, well, she's smaller so she'll have to cover more distance?
3. She's associated with chainsaws and axes more than any other weapon.
 
Here's my detailed take.

The two of them start without seeing the other. Much of the fight's outcome lies in who sees the other first. If Hunter sees her first, he shoots and hits. If Suisei sees him first, she charges in no time and smacks him.
It's in the scenario if they see each other at the same time, where the result lies.
  • Hunter's shotgun is a pump action shotgun, which requires a slide movement between each shot. If the first bullet hits Suisei, it's over. If it misses, there's trouble, because Suisei's fast movement would allow her to reach Hunter before he can slide again. That's without taking into account aiming, which would take a couple extra deciseconds. Suisei's options are:
    • Suisei charges. In this scenario, Hunter has a better chance to hit, because of the closing distance. However, while Suisei is violent, she's not reckless. Running towards a gunner isn't a smart move.
    • Suisei shrinks on the spot. This scenario guarantees a miss of the first shot, but then things are up in the air. Suisei would likely have to turn back to normal size to reach max speed. The positive for Suisei is that she gains a free couple deciseconds + likely a couple extra ones due to Hunter's surprise. The negative for Suisei is that she's revealed her shrinking, so Hunter now knows she can do that, and she likely can't reach max speed while shrunk. If Suisei decides to attack and fails to capitalize on this precious time gained, Hunter is likely to recover on time, but if she does, then she has the upper hand. After shrinking, she can also retreat instead of attempting a charge, which would reset the encounter, but with the knowledge of the gun: cover is more valuable to Suisei than Hunter, so its existence is to her benefit.
    • Suisei tries to dodge. Because of the environment, stepping back out of view/behind the cover she just came from would be the most likely dodging option. This scenario greatly reduces the chance of the shotgun shell hitting Suisei. Afterwards, it would turn into a game of carefully chasing each other amidst the warehouse's covers. Here, the shrinking hasn't been revealed, so Hunter still doesn't know, which is a big plus for her. Against a gunner, using this ability would be a smart move, to hide and approach stealthily.
That's mainly in the scenario if they see each other while at 30ft apart. While they start 30ft apart, nothing guarantees they will see each other at 30ft apart. If they happen to see each other at closer range within reach of Suisei's weapons, it's to Suisei's advantage. And if they happen to see each other at a further distance than 30ft, the same options I described apply.

Finally, while more minor, Suisei's LS can be useful, specifically due to the environment. The option to toss containers and large boxes is there.

Taking all that into account, and based on the circumstances of the fight, location, equipment, weapons, and options available to each, I'm leaning towards Suisei having a higher chance on average.



PS : Genuine question: where's the idea Suisei's more associated with chainsaws coming from? If we go purely by number of appearances per weapon Suisei has used in HoloGra, her halberd/axe has the most.
 
GoldenScorpions said:
Here's my detailed take.

The two of them start without seeing the other. Much of the fight's outcome lies in who sees the other first. If Hunter sees her first, he shoots and hits. If Suisei sees him first, she charges in no time and smacks him.
It's in the scenario if they see each other at the same time, where the result lies.
  • Hunter's shotgun is a pump action shotgun, which requires a slide movement between each shot. If the first bullet hits Suisei, it's over. If it misses, there's trouble, because Suisei's fast movement would allow her to reach Hunter before he can slide again. That's without taking into account aiming, which would take a couple extra deciseconds. Suisei's options are:
    • Suisei charges. In this scenario, Hunter has a better chance to hit, because of the closing distance. However, while Suisei is violent, she's not reckless. Running towards a gunner isn't a smart move.
    • Suisei shrinks on the spot. This scenario guarantees a miss of the first shot, but then things are up in the air. Suisei would likely have to turn back to normal size to reach max speed. The positive for Suisei is that she gains a free couple deciseconds + likely a couple extra ones due to Hunter's surprise. The negative for Suisei is that she's revealed her shrinking, so Hunter now knows she can do that, and she likely can't reach max speed while shrunk. If Suisei decides to attack and fails to capitalize on this precious time gained, Hunter is likely to recover on time, but if she does, then she has the upper hand. After shrinking, she can also retreat instead of attempting a charge, which would reset the encounter, but with the knowledge of the gun: cover is more valuable to Suisei than Hunter, so its existence is to her benefit.
    • Suisei tries to dodge. Because of the environment, stepping back out of view/behind the cover she just came from would be the most likely dodging option. This scenario greatly reduces the chance of the shotgun shell hitting Suisei. Afterwards, it would turn into a game of carefully chasing each other amidst the warehouse's covers. Here, the shrinking hasn't been revealed, so Hunter still doesn't know, which is a big plus for her. Against a gunner, using this ability would be a smart move, to hide and approach stealthily.
That's mainly in the scenario if they see each other while at 30ft apart. While they start 30ft apart, nothing guarantees they will see each other at 30ft apart. If they happen to see each other at closer range within reach of Suisei's weapons, it's to Suisei's advantage. And if they happen to see each other at a further distance than 30ft, the same options I described apply.

Finally, while more minor, Suisei's LS can be useful, specifically due to the environment. The option to toss containers and large boxes is there.

Taking all that into account, and based on the circumstances of the fight, location, equipment, weapons, and options available to each, I'm leaning towards Suisei having a higher chance on average.



PS : Genuine question: where's the idea Suisei's more associated with chainsaws coming from? If we go purely by number of appearances per weapon Suisei has used in HoloGra, her halberd/axe has the most.
Click to expand...
Would she go for stealth in character though, especially since she doesn't even have stealth mastery on her profile? I also fail to see how she can avoid a shotgun blast from a skilled marksman at close range and wouldn't shrinking in an attempt to dodge it actually be more dangerous for her because a shotgun shell contains hundreds of pellets and they'll be massive relative to her smaller size? Hunter can just shoot through cover. His guns have more than enough AP and penetration to go through anything she hides behind and he can dodge things that are thrown at him more easily than she can dodge bullets.
About the chainsaw association, I assume that we're also using content outside of Hologra because her intelligence section uses feats from both Hologra and her channel's content (an example is being able to hold her own for a solid 5 minutes against the world's 2nd best Tetris player).
 
GoldenScorpions said:
Here's my detailed take.

The two of them start without seeing the other. Much of the fight's outcome lies in who sees the other first. If Hunter sees her first, he shoots and hits. If Suisei sees him first, she charges in no time and smacks him.
It's in the scenario if they see each other at the same time, where the result lies.
  • Hunter's shotgun is a pump action shotgun, which requires a slide movement between each shot. If the first bullet hits Suisei, it's over. If it misses, there's trouble, because Suisei's fast movement would allow her to reach Hunter before he can slide again. That's without taking into account aiming, which would take a couple extra deciseconds. Suisei's options are:
    • Suisei charges. In this scenario, Hunter has a better chance to hit, because of the closing distance. However, while Suisei is violent, she's not reckless. Running towards a gunner isn't a smart move.
    • Suisei shrinks on the spot. This scenario guarantees a miss of the first shot, but then things are up in the air. Suisei would likely have to turn back to normal size to reach max speed. The positive for Suisei is that she gains a free couple deciseconds + likely a couple extra ones due to Hunter's surprise. The negative for Suisei is that she's revealed her shrinking, so Hunter now knows she can do that, and she likely can't reach max speed while shrunk. If Suisei decides to attack and fails to capitalize on this precious time gained, Hunter is likely to recover on time, but if she does, then she has the upper hand. After shrinking, she can also retreat instead of attempting a charge, which would reset the encounter, but with the knowledge of the gun: cover is more valuable to Suisei than Hunter, so its existence is to her benefit.
    • Suisei tries to dodge. Because of the environment, stepping back out of view/behind the cover she just came from would be the most likely dodging option. This scenario greatly reduces the chance of the shotgun shell hitting Suisei. Afterwards, it would turn into a game of carefully chasing each other amidst the warehouse's covers. Here, the shrinking hasn't been revealed, so Hunter still doesn't know, which is a big plus for her. Against a gunner, using this ability would be a smart move, to hide and approach stealthily.
That's mainly in the scenario if they see each other while at 30ft apart. While they start 30ft apart, nothing guarantees they will see each other at 30ft apart. If they happen to see each other at closer range within reach of Suisei's weapons, it's to Suisei's advantage. And if they happen to see each other at a further distance than 30ft, the same options I described apply.

Finally, while more minor, Suisei's LS can be useful, specifically due to the environment. The option to toss containers and large boxes is there.

Taking all that into account, and based on the circumstances of the fight, location, equipment, weapons, and options available to each, I'm leaning towards Suisei having a higher chance on average.



PS : Genuine question: where's the idea Suisei's more associated with chainsaws coming from? If we go purely by number of appearances per weapon Suisei has used in HoloGra, her halberd/axe has the most.
Click to expand...
Nice analysis. Though, are you sure equalizing the probability of the characters spotting each other is a good idea? What if one character is more likely to spot the other before the other has time to react, based on something like strategical skill, so the result of the match-up doesn't depend on a scenario where the two spot each other at the same time?
AThe1412 said:
Would she go for stealth in character though, especially since she doesn't even have stealth mastery on her profile? I also fail to see how she can avoid a shotgun blast from a skilled marksman at close range and wouldn't shrinking in an attempt to dodge it actually be more dangerous for her because a shotgun shell contains hundreds of pellets and they'll be massive relative to her smaller size? Hunter can just shoot through cover. His guns have more than enough AP and penetration to go through anything she hides behind and he can dodge things that are thrown at him more easily than she can dodge bullets.
Click to expand...
Good point about the Hunter being able to break cover and having accuracy. However, even though Suisei doesn't have stealth mastery, she still may attempt stealth anyway. A character doesn't have to have mastery over something to attempt it, and a warehouse seems like a good location to attempt sneaking in.
 
AThe1412 said:
Would she go for stealth in character though, especially since she doesn't even have stealth mastery on her profile?
Click to expand...
As James said, you can attempt to stealth even without being a master at it, just like any other skill. In a warehouse, it's a prime location to do that, even more against a ranged opponent. There is one scene where Suisei managed to sneak up behind another character and attack her with her halberd. I'm not sure it counts as "mastery", but it's there.
AThe1412 said:
I also fail to see how she can avoid a shotgun blast from a skilled marksman at close range and wouldn't shrinking in an attempt to dodge it actually be more dangerous for her because a shotgun shell contains hundreds of pellets and they'll be massive relative to her smaller size?
Click to expand...
I see what you mean, but shrinking to as small as an insect makes it harder to aim precisely, and would be shocking to see another human do. If Suisei shrinks before Hunter shoots, there's a time of surprise recovery that gives a few moments to Suisei, with the downside that Hunter now knows this ability and won't take him by surprise again. If she shrinks as Hunter pulls the trigger, she will most likely avoid that first shot as the pellets fly over her, and the time for a cartridge slide is added to the shock recovery time. Obviously, once Hunter knows she can shrink, he can re-aim accordingly, taking the new knowledge into account, and his skill is more than enough that he's likely to hit the next one. That's why I mentioned the pros and cons, and that if Suisei fails to capitalize on those few moments to either retreat or charge, it won't end well for her.
AThe1412 said:
Hunter can just shoot through cover. His guns have more than enough AP and penetration to go through anything she hides behind and he can dodge things that are thrown at him more easily than she can dodge bullets.
Click to expand...
That's fair, I hadn't thought of that. With 9-A bullets, she can crush whatever she shoots at. So even behind cover, Suisei needs to be careful, but Hunter still wouldn't know where Suisei is behind the cover, so there's a lack of accuracy.
AThe1412 said:
her intelligence section uses feats from both Hologra and her channel's content (an example is being able to hold her own for a solid 5 minutes against the world's 2nd best Tetris player)
Click to expand...
Ah, I see. Good point, thank you for pointing it out. Because these profiles are supposed to be purely HoloGra+official lore, and nothing else, the Tetris and music programs lines shouldn't be there, my bad. The rest happens in HoloGra.
James_Plays_4_Games said:
are you sure equalizing the probability of the characters spotting each other is a good idea? What if one character is more likely to spot the other before the other has time to react, based on something like strategical skill, so the result of the match-up doesn't depend on a scenario where the two spot each other at the same time?
Click to expand...
I don't think one has a better chance over the other. Neither has enhanced senses at base, Hunter doesn't have the radar, and in a closed environment with cover everywhere, the binoculars don't help.
 
GoldenScorpions said:
As James said, you can attempt to stealth even without being a master at it, just like any other skill. In a warehouse, it's a prime location to do that, even more against a ranged opponent. There is one scene where Suisei managed to sneak up behind another character and attack her with her halberd. I'm not sure it counts as "mastery", but it's there.

I see what you mean, but shrinking to as small as an insect makes it harder to aim precisely, and would be shocking to see another human do. If Suisei shrinks before Hunter shoots, there's a time of surprise recovery that gives a few moments to Suisei, with the downside that Hunter now knows this ability and won't take him by surprise again. If she shrinks as Hunter pulls the trigger, she will most likely avoid that first shot as the pellets fly over her, and the time for a cartridge slide is added to the shock recovery time. Obviously, once Hunter knows she can shrink, he can re-aim accordingly, taking the new knowledge into account, and his skill is more than enough that he's likely to hit the next one. That's why I mentioned the pros and cons, and that if Suisei fails to capitalize on those few moments to either retreat or charge, it won't end well for her.

That's fair, I hadn't thought of that. With 9-A bullets, she can crush whatever she shoots at. So even behind cover, Suisei needs to be careful, but Hunter still wouldn't know where Suisei is behind the cover, so there's a lack of accuracy.

Ah, I see. Good point, thank you for pointing it out. Because these profiles are supposed to be purely HoloGra+official lore, and nothing else, the Tetris and music programs lines shouldn't be there, my bad. The rest happens in HoloGra.

I don't think one has a better chance over the other. Neither has enhanced senses at base, Hunter doesn't have the radar, and in a closed environment with cover everywhere, the binoculars don't help.
Click to expand...
So are you voting for incon I mean?
 
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