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The High 1-A description

Antvasima

Antvasima

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Hello.

In a recent thread, our tiering system guru DarkLK gave the following comment:

"In my opinion, the high 1-A should be so much higher than the baseline 1-A that it can not be estimated by the perspectives (for example, by some metaphorical analogues of dimensions at 1-A level).

That is, a high 1-A must at least exceed the baseline 1-A in the same way as the baseline 1-A exceeds tier 11."

https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/1080753

Would the rest of you find it acceptable if we make a clarification about this in the Tiering System description for High 1-A?

NOTE: STAFF ONLY
 
If this were to pass, wouldn't this make some 1-A's be High 1-A?

I just thought up that the Mythos verse may apply to this due to having an SMT style of scaling above mere baseline 1-A. Although Azathoth and others more familiar with the verse may have a better answer for their case in this situation.

Edit: @Kaltias: I believe that's the case. Hajun from KKK is of the same case aside from his many weaknesses but that's of another case for his verse. The topic of this thread is in reference to DarkLK's opinion of what a High 1-A should be though...
 
I mean, one could transcend a 1-A as much as said 1-A transcend a tier 11 while still being 1-A. Isn't that what the Outer Gods from the Cthulhu Mythos do?

High 1-A is more "character that would quality for tier 0 if it wasn't because there is someone stronger", or at least that's my understanding of it

Edit: Ninja'd by Cross
 
I do not think that Hajun would qualify. Being an infinite number of times stronger than a regular or baseline 1-A is nowhere near enough to fit the description.
 
Also, we would keep all of the old definitions of/requirement for High 1-A. This would only be an additional description.
 
Was just saying...

Anyways, I question how this would affect many others that may fit the bill of this if we go with DarkLk'a idea. Red gave a specific example but that seems to only be that of there. And I think the Mythos has at least 3 others that I think SORT OF fits this as well (one of which is obviously Yog), but I'm unsure of the vast deities that are the Outer Gods though...
 
I see. I don't have any problem with it then.

It's just to give an idea of the gap between 1-A and High 1-A, if I understood correctly? The requirement is fundamentally the same as it was before?
 
Antvasima said:
Also, we would keep all of the old definitions of/requirement for High 1-A. This would only be an additional description.
Click to expand...

Exactly. I specially wrote "at least". That is, even if this elementary requirement is not met, then you should not even ask unnecessary questions.

I just remembered this blog, where it is assumed that this character should be high 1-A, although even if there is a correct interpretation of feats and characteristics, it does not seem (for me at least) like something spectacular at the 1-A tier.
 
Okay. Thank you for the reply.
 
Adding a clarification like this seems good. It also sounds quite a bit like what we have for stuff like Yog-Sothoth, who is defined as transcending all conceptions of perspective and size, regardless of what it is being compared to.

Then, as Red mentioned, we have other High 1-As who are listed as being so simply because they are drastically above other 1-As.

This should be a decent approximation of what should and should not apply.
 
well another sample i would like to mention kind of similar to the ones i mentioned is Haju with his tumor because at full power makes Tenma Yato who at full power himself can stomp the other weaker gods infinitely if the difference in taikyoku value is 10 (in shinza 10 taikyoku value difference = infinite stomp and Yato is the strongest sans Hajun) but Yato compares himself as a human fighting god (yato = human, Hajun = god) IIRC. Ik there are weaknesses but we have a seperate key of him having the tumor and him without it just saiyain.
 
So, how about adding something like this draft to the previous description?

"A High 1-A should be so much higher than baseline 1-A characters that it can not be estimated or comprehended from their perspectives. That is, to even be considered for High 1-A, a character must at the very least transcend baseline 1-A in the same manner as the baseline exceeds tier 11."

I am open for improvements in the wording. Do you have any suggestions Azathoth?
 
"A High 1-A should be so much higher than baseline 1-A characters that it can not be estimated or comprehended from their perspectives. That is, to even be considered for High 1-A, a character must at the very least transcend baseline 1-A characters in the same manner as they exceed tier 11."

^ This could work?
 
Yes, that is a better sentence structure.
 
So, are everybody okay with if I add Kaltias' version?
 
Since there is nobody protesting against this, I suppose that I should add it to the description.

However, I am obviously open for changing it afterwards.
 
From what I remember DarkLK said that Hajun does definitely not qualify.
 
Welp that goes out the window.

I don't think there's anything else for here unless anyone of staff wants to improve the wording of the new change?
 
Yes, but since it is a staff thread, and we might receive more input later on, it is probably unnecessary to close it.
 
Antvasima said:
From what I remember DarkLK said that Hajun does definitely not qualify.
Click to expand...

I doubt that I said anything like that about Hajun.
 
Really? I seem to recall that you said that his weaknesses were too severe for him to qualify. I suppose that I misremember then.
 
Okay. I recall being shown an image of Hajun being killed by a sword strike, and told that if he had been a High 1-A, it would have been impossible, but I have lots of constant tasks, so sometimes I misremember.
 
That's a bit of a complicated tale to explain~

But yeah, that;s basically it albeit there was a lot of factors that lead to that soo...
 
well to answer he died because his tumor was taken by Habaki Sakagami after keishirou cut a wound at throne hajun (not throne with tumor hajun is weaker than tumor hajun at full power). And honestly just saying that it should only be for his "with tumor" key because we have two keys to differentiate his power (with tumor and without tumor) again just sayain
 
Well, personally I do not have the impression that Hajun remotely qualifies to be in the same tier as Featherine Augustus Aurora and Yog-Sothoth, but if DarkLK disagrees, I am obviously willing to reconsider.
 
Can a High 1-A be High 1-A if they have a weakness that can be exploited by "regular" 1-As? That seems to go against the whole "not estimated by perspectives" thing.
 
IDK~

But in the canon fight of Hajun vs DI Gods (Marie, Merc, Rein, Ren), that was really the only thing they had won in the first place, albeit in heavy causalities for the DI Gods side. Basically, Reinhard was able to notice the Tumor inside Hajun and Marie was able to extract it (i.e reincarnate it) outside of him while the others hold him off. In that time after it was lost was when Hajun was at a level they can defeat him at, albeit he was still powerful enough to have 3 of them die with him after they managed to finally kill it off.

So...take that of what you will on his case.
 
Well, the problem is that if he was High 1-A, the regular 1-A characters should not have been able to do that in the first place.
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
Can a High 1-A be High 1-A if they have a weakness that can be exploited by "regular" 1-As? That seems to go against the whole "not estimated by perspectives" thing.
Click to expand...

There's no 1-A except Habaki, who can do it, and Habaki is part of Hajun.
 
@DarkLK

So do you think that we should upgrade Hajun with the tumor?
 
Antvasima said:
Well, personally I do not have the impression that Hajun remotely qualifies to be in the same tier as Featherine Augustus Aurora and Yog-Sothoth, but if DarkLK disagrees, I am obviously willing to reconsider.
Click to expand...

I'm definitely not the best Masadaverse expert. That's why I just could not deny the high 1-A Hajun. For the same reason, I can not confirm this.
 
Okay. That is a problem then.
 
I can't really make much of a counter-argument so whatever~

Well since you point that out, it wouldn't make any sense for Hajun to have lost it. The only best i can say is Hajun at his best would be a really high-end 1-A or less but not far higher to be a High 1-A sooo.......~

Cause he's pretty much of a height where even this guy could be compared to a mortal as one would to that of a god. And the latter in turn is much higher than those of Reinhard, Mercurius, and Marie among that in turn...
 
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