- 5,698
- 3,670
We've got quite a bit to cover. I'll be breaking this post into multiple sections so everything can be discussed in an orderly fashion.
1. Characters to be added
This part will be rather simple, so why not get it out of the way? Anyway, while I don't think every character in the game needs to be added, there are several I'd propose due to them either possessing unique abilities, or factors into scaling. The character's I propose with reasoning are as follows;
Let's go over this by groups. We'll split the list between "Low-Tiers", "Mid-Tiers", and "High-Tiers" for simplification.
Low-Tiers:
Mid-Tiers:
High-Tiers:
This means all high tiers in the verse are Building level as opposed to Small Building level like the low to mid-tiers.
Judgement and Beelzebub at the least can scale off of Judgement's subsonic physical feat, as the two should be relative.
Everything in this blog should scale only to Judgement. Thing is, not all of it should scale to her physicals. In fact, nothing in that blog scales to her physicals, and it all scales to her Weapon Control. Her chains get Supersonic+ speed, Tens of Meters range, scales to City Block level, and her Weapon Control gets Class G LS. This is because her main method of attack is City Block level, and we have no reason to assume her physicals scale. In fact, there's not a single time where she physically fights throughout the base game, DLC, or Twitter Comics. She's reliant on her chains which are shown to easily kill The Helltaker and restrain several Demons simultaneously. Hell, they're shown to restrain Judgement herself. So yes, her Weapon Control and Chains should scale above her. Judgement physically is Building level with Subsonic combat speed. You might be able to argue Supersonic+ reactions since she can control the chains, but I never bothered to ask staff about that.
In short;
Low-Tiers = Small Building level, Class K LS, Superhuman speed
Mid-Tiers = Small Building level, Class K LS, Superhuman speed (Can all upscale)
High-Tiers = Building level, Class K LS, Subsonic speed (Except Subject 67)
With Judgement being a special case, as reflected above and in her sandbox.
3. Formatting
This one's rather simple. I think both characters and the verse page can be more well-formatted. For starters, the only thing I'd really change for the Verse page is adding portraits of the characters instead of just having names. It's also possible we could separate the characters by categories/groups. Though it's not necessary. I'll leave that up to you reading this.
What I would like to pay more attention to is the profiles. A lot of their powers and abilities aren't justified with links and simply require us to take their word for it. I've luckily gotten help with obtaining sources for all of these abilities and can simply edit them in. Azazel should have two keys, one for when she's an Angel, and one for after she's fallen and become a Demon. I've already made a very rough draft of what the profile would look like. The page would have Base Azazel, being a rather vanilla key, with Loremaster, the second key being treated as an inventor type character, with varying stats for their inventions. Quite fitting for what was shown.
4. Powers/Abilities
There's a decently hefty amount of abilities that can be added to the character's profiles that I'd like to propose. I'll organize the abilities based on ones that "scale" to everyone, and then the one's that individuals get.
Everyone:
That's all for now
To summarize everything above, the things that should be revised are; Addition of cast members, Statistics and scaling, Formatting verse page and profiles, Powers and Abilities/Resistances
There's probably a bit more that could be revised, but I'll save that for another time as to prevent covering too much in one sitting. I hope this goes well as it took a while to write this all in an orderly fashion
Agree: 6 (@Veloxt1r0kore, @Sparkive, @Adrianelloxd, @Fireld, @Dark-Carioca, @DarkDragonMedeus)
Disagree: 0
1. Characters to be added
This part will be rather simple, so why not get it out of the way? Anyway, while I don't think every character in the game needs to be added, there are several I'd propose due to them either possessing unique abilities, or factors into scaling. The character's I propose with reasoning are as follows;
- Subject 67; While his abilities wouldn't be anything unique, basically being identical to The Helltaker, he does contribute to scaling as he has Building level feat that stronger demons could scale off of, making him a stronger Helltaker essentially.
- Malina; She doesn't offer anything when it comes to scaling, however, she does possess notable magic. Having blood manipulation that other demons didn't showcase. (From what I've been told, all Demons have limited magic as stated by the creator in a stream, so it's likely unique to her as no one else did anything like it). With a hand gesture, she caused a fountain of blood to eject from The Helltaker's throat.
- Loremaster's mech; Like Subject 67, provides scaling to building level, and actually possesses a few interesting abilities itself, such as technopathy, large size, energy projection, weapon manipulation. It also scales to Loremaster with prep time. As does Subject 67.
- Judgement; This is an obvious candidate, and I'm honestly not sure why she doesn't already have a profile when she's the only demon who's actually a competent fighter. She has numerous feats that only scale to herself, and possesses several unique abilities. For those interested in what her profile would look like, I've made a sandbox here. It still needs a bit of tweaking, but that's fine. These changes never had to be immediate after all.
Let's go over this by groups. We'll split the list between "Low-Tiers", "Mid-Tiers", and "High-Tiers" for simplification.
Low-Tiers:
- The Helltaker; Every feat he has, scales to everyone.
Mid-Tiers:
- Cerberus
- Malina
- Azazel/Loremaster (She was able to conquer hell true, but only through prep time and research, and it was stated to be very difficult for her)
- Lucifer (Sure, she's the Queen of hell, but physically, she never showed anything impressive and relied on hax. While she should scale to other mid-tier demons who are rather on the lower end of strength, she shouldn't be a high tier. She attempts daily assassination attempts on Loremaster, and fails every time, though the specifics of this are unknown)
High-Tiers:
- Subject 67 (While I don't think he's unfathomably above the Demons in the mid-tier, he had originally planned to kill Loremaster, and Loremaster had to take precaution and install him with a weakness explicitly so it was safe to be around him. He also defeated her Mech in a drawn-out battle)
- Loremaster's mech (It's likely this is one of the things that allowed Loremaster to overthrow hell. It was done with prep time, and it took a drawn-out fight with Subject 67, a creation they deemed a success to defeat it.
- Beelzebub (I was hesitant to put them here. They're deemed the most dangerous type of demon, though like Justice, it's possible they've gotten weaker after their battle which left Justice blind and was soon replaced by Judgement. But I have no reason to believe she's weaker than the mid-tiers)
- Judgement (Her job is to torture the sinful denizens of Hell, which would of course include Demons. As noted in her artbook entry, she's good/proficient at doing this as well. She shows no fear when commanded to stop by the CEO of Hell [Lucifer] and even claims her role to be of more importance, and I would think as the successor High Prosecutor, she'd scale to Justice at her prime when she defeated Beelzebub, who was against considered the most dangerous demon by Lucifer)
This means all high tiers in the verse are Building level as opposed to Small Building level like the low to mid-tiers.
Judgement and Beelzebub at the least can scale off of Judgement's subsonic physical feat, as the two should be relative.
Everything in this blog should scale only to Judgement. Thing is, not all of it should scale to her physicals. In fact, nothing in that blog scales to her physicals, and it all scales to her Weapon Control. Her chains get Supersonic+ speed, Tens of Meters range, scales to City Block level, and her Weapon Control gets Class G LS. This is because her main method of attack is City Block level, and we have no reason to assume her physicals scale. In fact, there's not a single time where she physically fights throughout the base game, DLC, or Twitter Comics. She's reliant on her chains which are shown to easily kill The Helltaker and restrain several Demons simultaneously. Hell, they're shown to restrain Judgement herself. So yes, her Weapon Control and Chains should scale above her. Judgement physically is Building level with Subsonic combat speed. You might be able to argue Supersonic+ reactions since she can control the chains, but I never bothered to ask staff about that.
In short;
Low-Tiers = Small Building level, Class K LS, Superhuman speed
Mid-Tiers = Small Building level, Class K LS, Superhuman speed (Can all upscale)
High-Tiers = Building level, Class K LS, Subsonic speed (Except Subject 67)
With Judgement being a special case, as reflected above and in her sandbox.
3. Formatting
This one's rather simple. I think both characters and the verse page can be more well-formatted. For starters, the only thing I'd really change for the Verse page is adding portraits of the characters instead of just having names. It's also possible we could separate the characters by categories/groups. Though it's not necessary. I'll leave that up to you reading this.
What I would like to pay more attention to is the profiles. A lot of their powers and abilities aren't justified with links and simply require us to take their word for it. I've luckily gotten help with obtaining sources for all of these abilities and can simply edit them in. Azazel should have two keys, one for when she's an Angel, and one for after she's fallen and become a Demon. I've already made a very rough draft of what the profile would look like. The page would have Base Azazel, being a rather vanilla key, with Loremaster, the second key being treated as an inventor type character, with varying stats for their inventions. Quite fitting for what was shown.
4. Powers/Abilities
There's a decently hefty amount of abilities that can be added to the character's profiles that I'd like to propose. I'll organize the abilities based on ones that "scale" to everyone, and then the one's that individuals get.
Everyone:
- Supernatural Willpower; Everyone and their mom can exist in Hell. To exist in hell, you need a lot of willpower, otherwise, you instantly die. Quite literally
- Smoke/Heat Manipulation Resistance; Everyone in Hell is exposed to the flames of Hell that are stated to burn The Helltaker's lungs. I figure the reason their lungs burn is due to the smoke they'd be inhaling, but it's possible (not likely) that fire is literally burning in their lungs. Though they should still get limited manipulation to fire, or more accurately heat since Hell should logically be hot if fire is causing their lungs to burn everywhere they go.
- Possibly Death Manipulation Resistance; This is likely just an exploitable weakness of Hell, but as stated earlier, Hell kills those who run out of will. Meaning Willpower's protecting them from dying on the spot. It's unlikely this is an actual resistance, but I guess I'll see what staff thinks.
- Disease Manipulation; Pretty much every relevant character should have this. While it's true not everyone was in Beelzebub's presence, such as Azazel, or maybe even Judgement, every Demon, and even The Helltaker were immune to Beelzebub's passive disease inflicting presence. Helltaker on-screen was stated to be afflicted with every disease known to man, and was still capable of moving and acting just fine. Everyone in Hell at some point co-existed with Beelzebub as they originated from Hell, and Justice had to fight Beelzebub to seal them, and yet all of them are perfectly healthy. This is likely due to the Demon's different biology (They have no reason to have the same biology as normal humans). Same for Angel's. For them to be sending Angel's to Hell to investigate and regularly monitor them, you'd think they'd also need resistance to disease manipulation as to not have died when doing so when Beelzebub was still in Hell. Not to mention they also shouldn't have normal human biology.
- Longevity, possibly Immortality; Demons and very likely Angels at the very least have shown to have very long lifespans, with only their horns changing with age (Their horns become white, but only when they're truly ancient). You could make the argument this is also unique to Judgement, but she verbatim states she's immortal. At the very least, all Demons should have longevity, and possibly immortality.
- Precognition (At least analytical prediction); Against Judgement, he can see where Judgement is going to attack, and can thus act on it to evade the attack beforehand (It's what the transparent dim chains are. Where the chains will appear. The bright white ones are the actual chains. At the very least, this should be analytical prediction as he can dodge many of these chains which are over several times faster than him).
- Precognition (At least analytical prediction); Similar to Helltaker, Subject 67 can see where Loremaster's mechs attacks are going to be before they hit. In this battle, he can both predict when the lasers will fire, and where the mortar fire will land
- Large Size Type 0; Self-evident
- Weapon Control; Can cause spikes to protrude from the ground and move in a linear path
- Technology Manipulation; Can cause the lasers on the side of the stage to fire at random times, and causes the mortar's in the background to fire whenever they dance
- Energy Projection; Self-evident
- Overwhelming Aura; Her cuteness can give The Helltaker a heart attack (I'm not 100% sure what this should be classified as, so staff input is more than welcome. I just figured since their presence killed him with cuteness, that an overwhelming aura would work)
- Blood Manipulation; A swipe of her hand caused blood to burst from The Helltaker's throat violently
That's all for now
To summarize everything above, the things that should be revised are; Addition of cast members, Statistics and scaling, Formatting verse page and profiles, Powers and Abilities/Resistances
There's probably a bit more that could be revised, but I'll save that for another time as to prevent covering too much in one sitting. I hope this goes well as it took a while to write this all in an orderly fashion
Agree: 6 (@Veloxt1r0kore, @Sparkive, @Adrianelloxd, @Fireld, @Dark-Carioca, @DarkDragonMedeus)
Disagree: 0
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