The Gamer upgrades, the reniggings.

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Because he just keeps getting new stuff to pile on his OP-ness.

TL;DR for the lazy or busy: Berith and Zaga go to Low 7-B/Low 7-B/7-B for their keys respectively for being comparable to Hwa at full power. Ha (New key, probably) goes to Low 7-B (For being logically superior to the redhead that beat Zagan 10%), possibly 7-B with magic (Because 980 INT should be comparable to the dimension smasher at this point+magic power stat-amps.)


First, an upgrade for the god's, specifically Berith and Zagan. They, as gods, should scale above Hwan (As he himself admits a god is too much for him), who himself is 7-B. That mean they at full power are 7-B, and are Low 7-B at 5% and 10%.

Now, onto Han.

First, his tier. He went through a martial arts awakening superior to that of Sun or Kwon, and he honestly should be superior to the redhead company member that defeated Zagan. Which would make him... low 7-B (Why is this consistent still?). To be honest, I'd also argue that Han is comparable to Hwan himself at this point, enough to get a possibly 7-B with his magic (I mean, 980 INT? Strength that is equivalent to decades of training in X10 time dilated spaces? That should make him at least comparable.)

He also got a new enhanced sense in that he could see the "filth" of the world after becoming an immortal/going through a complete overhaul (It's a common trope that stuff tends to be full of corruption, except martial artists, who cleanse themselves. In Chinese novels anyways, and complete overhaul is based on that).

Actual new skills:

Transcendental Superhuman Strength: 50% Strength increase

Transcendental Reflexes: +50% speed (which means that he crossed the Sub-rel+) and intuition skills (his reflexes, I imagine)

Transcendental Resilience: +300% Regenerationn (Comparable to a troll, which is pretty much instantly heal any non-deadly wound.)

Transcendental Durability: 500% dura increase.

New profile pic for Ha


That should be it for the next few days, until another chapter comes out. I'll update the OP when that happens.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

I'll think more on this later, though it seems fine at first glance.

I'd like the scans of Berith and Zagan being gods, I thought they were demons, and we haven't really received much information on demons.

Otherwise, the general scaling seems alright, but Hwan, to an extent, is also getting the Beerus treatment in that he's stronger than he was originally shown to be (despite struggling a bit). So it may be safer to wait. Especially since the 1000 INT landmark should be coming up rather soon.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

They are gods, as is the chaos dude. The 72 gods that were curropted and all that.

Their power is normally restricted, since their status as a devil, but not in hell as far as we understand.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

Ah, gotcha, thank you.

I wonder if I just read a different translation or something. But that clears it up.

I knew that their power was restricted down to 5%, and that they could raise it to 10%. But I didn't remember much else.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I mean, that was from webtoons. Tough those parts were hardly that memorable.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes]

That profile pic.

For a moment I thought this was gonna be based on douchery or how Han's ass was whooped (mostly) in the latest chap. I don't think any of these are wrong but I'm neutral leaning mostly on yes though.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

...1680 INT.

The equivalent of over level 300 in just one stat.


And we got his flame incarnation.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

Flame incarnation? 1690 INT?

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Yup. Both o those happened in the korean raw.

Jesus christ... The stats are crazy.


I think we can all agree on Low 7-B with that tough, yeah?

 

[Ciruno_Fortes]

1690 Int but not high WIS

In all seriousness yikes yeah, might be even higher maybe. Probably not.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

While I personally find Low 7-B to be fine, there's no really much of a way to gauge the red haired guy's strength.

Like, I guess he's weaker than The President. But we can't say that Han is stronger than The President at this point.

I'm trying to find the logic other than, "Oh, it just feels like he should definitely be this strong." Which, while this is almost certainly the case, I'd rather have a feat or a more certain scaling.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I mean, Beerus treatment he might be getting, I soubt Han is much weaker than Hwan at this point.

Buy more importantly, he also has the magic multiplier with his staff.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I mean, his base magic should be at least High 7-C in it's nirmality, so Han should get Low 7-B by simply stat amps and his staff's multiplier, if not anything else.

 

[Ciruno_Fortes]

Fair nuff on those, stronger than the Prez from back then imo.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

But we don't know how big of a buff he gets from his magic normally, right? Also, we've already established that, as far as AP goes, his stats don't scale linearly.

Like I said, I also agree that he's Low 7-B, but I can't find any solid line of logic or a feat that allows us to safely say such.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Stats don't scale linearly. Clear cut, % based stat amps directly stated to affect magical power do. We know for a fact that he gets a X4 amp from his staff.

That, and the president's puppets are nowhere near being categorized in the heavenly thousand, and are only S class. The heavenly thousand's most mebers we saw weren't exactlty AP based, but people likethe sand dude do use physical attacks as their main attack method, and should scale above redhead.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

That, and he thinks he can mach a nuke's power. Yeah, a nuke can be only 7-C, but he also taught that a tactical nuke could kill the storm guy and the redhead.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

They affect magical power, but it's still unquantifiable. A majority of his skills give some % stat increase, but it's not linear, as calcs have already proven. Only thing that has a shown multiplier is his thought acceleration.

And none of that gives solid logic for Low 7-B, unfortunately. It's better to just wait, as usual.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

No. That is not true at all. He plain stated that the power increase given in % are lineral. The only thing that is not linear is his base power increase through stats. The tier changes are due to his base stats being non-lineral. Here we aren't assuming a linear increase based on a based stat, we are assuming a linear increase based on a clearcut multiplier.

He says thata nuke can kill them, and now he says he can make a nuke... That, and the point about the heavenly thousand being superior to normal S class fighters is also pretty clear. In-fact, it was plain stated that we should think of people like Hwan when talking about the thousand. Saying that they are superior to redhead seems pretty obvious for the non-hax fighters.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

Scan for that statement please. % increases are not clear cut multipliers.

Like I said before, it's not as though I don't think Han is Low 7-B at this point, but that there is not enough concrete scaling or evidence to upgrade him. As you said, the nuke thing is 7-C, so that's largely irrelevant here. We can claim that they're superior to the red head, but without actual evidence or concrete scaling, we can't do so. For all we know, the red head could be retconned to be part of the heavenly thousand. I don't see the harm in waiting.

 

[Antvasima]

So what are the conclusions here?

 

[Litentric_Teon]

The new ability updates are fine. We're still discussing the possible tier increase.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

The staff's statement you know already, right? You agreed with it as a reason for 7-C to be proper, so I'm guessing so. The % is at the very beginning where he explains how critical hit abilities effects. Or for all his other stuff like his staff that doubled his arrows' power, or his mana bomb which quadrupled (or was it times six? Not sure) his normal magical power. There is no reason to say they are incorrect when his other % stuff like recovery, speed amps and other stuff are not.

The nuke thing can be anywhere from 7-C to 7-A. Him believing that nukes are > the afromentioned low 7-B's is the point. And this is the seconds time you seemed to ignore how the heavenly thousand surpass your average S class by a mile anyways. Han did point out that he can beat them through raw power now.


And the discussion is made moot by the fact that Han claims to have become twice as powerful after the demon tower (which itself was after his complete overhaul). That alone makes him Low 7-B by being twice >>>High 7-C+.

Anyways, all of his martial arts section get's simply changed to Myriad Style Mastery, Hn gets some pseudo reactive evolution (after controlling his energy backflow he evolved, and got extra stats), his classification ought to mention hiw his race apparently changed to "master" (which, beyond giving nekopara flashbacks, I have no idea about) and he gets a new weakness in that his sensing can fail if he's distracted.

I was also thinking about putting some new images. The style of his current one is pretty outdated compared to the current artwork, and it would be better to put his spiritualization image there too.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

The staff is one thing. Literally one item. I'm referring to every single other % change he gets from stats or any other item. It's also possible that we shouldn't have taken the 4x multiplier from the staff in the first place. As it's the only time we've used a % increase as reasoning for a tier. His other % stuffs, when totaled, don't correspond to the calcs. Refer back to when he first became Low 7-C. Him being High 7-C comes from the Dancer of the Storm thing, which, thinking on it now, might just be a guess. And also don't forget that Rep agreed that taking the % increases Han receives literally was and is incorrect.

I'll reiterate again, it's not as though I don't believe Han is Low 7-B. Quite the contrary. The only heavenly thousand member who was physically based was Changeon, who was beat by mind manip. And we still don't know where the Red Haired fellow stands since he was able to defeat Zagan. The issue lies in that the Red Haired guy defeated Zagan, so we don't know what the upper limits of his power actually is. So to claim Han is superior to him without knowing this is simply incorrect here.

To be fair, Han claims to have become significantly more powerful all the time. I'm more fine with the 2x multiplier than I am with any of the other logic, since that's a statement from verse.

I agree with the new images. Spiritualized Han looks pretty cool.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Not literally one item. There are many other items that increase his stuff like that. Your doesn't correspind with calcs argument is simply wrong. Not one calc has contradicted them. His stats vary inbetween each feat he scales to, and stats are not linear. The whole reason why Ogre's Strenght was kept relevent was the exponential nature of stats. His % based staffs never ended up giving him a higher amp calcwise than they advertised, nor lower for the matter. He directly uses the linear scaling while explaining his critical strikw, his amps, and his time dilatation, all of which are % based. Rep only ever used the stats not being linear argument, which doesn't matter to non-stat related skills and items.

Long story short, we get a stated % increase by an in-verse nigh-omniscient, and nothinf you brought up disqualifies using them. Your being skeptic over flat out statements by Han's powers for no reason.

That diesn't matter. You believing it or not doesn't change the fact that I find your logic flawed. Red head is S rank, we know that for a fact. If the company had heavenly thousand members as lackeys, that would have been mentioned, it's not a fair assumption to make that he is comparable to Cheon or the others. And Han directly states that he can overpower the heavenly thousand members through raw power, so how he beat them prior to his ivverhaul hardly matters.

Again, bottim line is that redhead was S rank. The heavenly thousand are the top 1000, and Sun said to think of Hwan when thinking about them. I'm also pretty sure there was something about them being more dangerous than people previously met, but that might be just my memory. You seem to think that beating Zagan makes him stronger on the ladder, which doesn't seem to have any basis befire it. Loli is rated as an S rank taking her summons in consideration, not for only her own power. She on her own can't even use life absirbtion on anyone S class or above that we met.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

That's literally unture. Rep said stats, and Han at the time had things such as his earrings and a staff (wand?) at that time as this was during the time when he fought Hyungin In. His items literally give his stats boosts, trying to differentiate them makes no sense. Whether they're stats he gains from his items or from his gamer ability itself, both are expressed in terms of percentages and both affect the stats on his stat screen. And you keep saying that the calcs don't prove this but they do. Have you ever actually bothered to add up all those percentages and correlate them to a calculation? The number of 200% increases, 400% increases, 50% and 30% increases are insane, and would have increased his power by at least ten times, yet the calcs say otherwise. He was at basically the pinnacle of 8-A in his battle against Hyungin In, and yet his meteor feat is only Low 7-C. And, admittedly, while that wasn't his strongest attack, it was among his strongest, and the one with the most AoE.

Nigh-omniscient? Who?

You can find the logic flawed, that's fine. But that doesn't totally prove that it is. You forget that some of The Gamer was retconned, such as Hwan being massively stronger than what he was shown to be, and the heavenly thousand not even being mentioned in season 1 despite him being a part of it (authors can create things for their story later on and use earlier parts to make it more credible, which is incredibly likely to be the case here). Even to this point when Han was supposedly "two steps beneath him" during the earlier parts of the Church of Masks arc. The gods have received more credit as well, and have more lore behind them. This extends to the devils as well, whom, as you have stated, are gods in their own right. I'm sure we'd agree that Han isn't at the level of a god yet, but the Red Haired guy defeated a god. That makes the red haired guy stronger by simple scaling, ignoring the fact that we don't even know the upper limits of his strength. He literally one shot Zagan, didn't even get his clothes dirty. And now we want to assume that Han is stronger than someone who can one shot a devil? Seems fairly farfetched to me, especially now that we know a bit about how strong gods are supposed to be.

And honestly, rank isn't everything. I can't recall where they said that the red haired guy was S rank, but they definitely implied him to be over level 100, and likely with stats far above his level. Someone's rank or level doesn't always dictate exactly how strong they are. Take someone like Loli and someone like the dancer, or the CEO. Fairly wide changes in power. Not to mention that we don't know where on the heavenly thousand Hwan lies. There's nothing that says S ranks aren't a part of it at all. Only that Hwan is a part of it. Comparing Loli to the red haired guy is a fairly bad comparison. As you said, her powers are limited by whom she can take life energy from. Whereas the red haired guy literally one shot a devil. Seems like a fairly large difference in power.

 

[Antvasima]

I am unsubscribing from this thread. You can send me a message if you reach an agreement later, and need my help.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I'll just cut it short here, and explain in depth more on later. Your point about how Hwan is "only a member of it" and it's unknown how other's scale to him is incorrect. The statements we got were:

Shin saying to compare the heavenly thousand to Hwan, period.

Han saying that they can solo one of the 10 main korean guilds.

Cheon is one of the strongest ninth gate members, and top 10 in his own guild.


The heavenly thousand can singlehandedly defeat one of the ten main korean guilds when faced in a battle. Stated to be so. The Company was one of said 10 companies. That's very clear cut scaling. Cheon himself was one of the top 10 mebers of a ninth gate guild, and statedly one of the strongest members of the ninth gate period. Thats quiet a bit above anything the president was implied to be.

For the % part, no. Han's calcs don't contradict any of the % increases, because up until he became 7-C, he never got more than a 600% increase with a single spell.


No, that's wrong. None of his % based amps apply to his raw stats, that is ridiculous. He has no amp that increases one of his stats in a % at all. His items increase his Regenerationn and energy output by an unknown amount, but not his stats. His stat amps and his potion increase his stats by a set amount, 50.

All of his % based increases refer to other stuff. His time acceleration doesn't increase his DEX/AGI by 2000%. It increases his speed by that much. His mana spiraling bomb doesn't increase his INT by 600%, but his "attack power" by that much. His Passive stat amps he got with stat landmarks don't amplify his stats, they amplify stuff related to the stats (Speed, mana costs, magical power, physical strength, etc.)

His replica staff increases his magic power by 4. Not his intelligence, he'd long since have gotten his current passives if it did.


I did, yes. He never got enough to jump a tier, because martial art stat amps and intelligence stat amps are completely unrelated. And pinnacle of 8-A? He scaled somewhat above 100. And not only are most of his amps, again, unrelated (his staffs back then only worked on low level magic. His swordsmanship, spearmanship and blunt weapon mastery were never stacked and didn't affect magic, ditto for marial arts, etc.) and not activated at once, he still upscales from a baseline 100 ton feat. No, he doesn't scale to the golem itself, he could only do small amounts of damage while amping himself the best he could, which is perfectly reasonable for someone a fourth of it's power (Especially with how his arrows and mana bomb have penetration specifically for that)


Gaia. If there is anyone that objectively knows how much the powers work, it's the goddess aware of all supernatural happenings, and the one ready to fate manip anyone that acts out.


No, that alone doesn't prove it, cue the explanation of why I think that. Those aren't retcons, no. Hwan's full power was never known tier-wise. He was one-shotting everyone left and right while a legendary artifact was holding him down. The closest thing to a retcon related to him was Han thinking of being two step away from him (Which he technically could very well have been, with how Hwan lost his pent-up energy he gathered for the occasion). "Two-steps" can mean anything, even something as ridiculously broad as rating from an F to an SSS rating, where he would be S rank if he was "two steps below him", which he is. where a D class could vaporize most E ones with it's firebreath.

Gods getting more lore behind them means nothing here. here is no contradiction to what we knew so far above them, so the fact that they are an amalgamate of people's daydreams doesn't matter to this discussion. The redhead did not defeat a god. He defeated a god whose power was heavily restricted. Beyond being limited to 10%, but Zagan and Berith showed new abilities as the % of their power went up (Berith's golems became a hundred meters larger, and he personally possesed metal. Zagan regenerated when he released his power up to 10%)

Redhead is an S class, inferior to the CEO, who wasn't all that impressive himself.

The heavenly thousand are far above S class, and rapresent enough of a danger to be thinking of Hwan when dealing with them.

And nothing of what we know about the gods makes their power restricted to 10% superior to Han. Amaterasu had been building up her powers for millenia to make one explosion. You cannopt claim every god scales to that, and that is the only thing that would make 10% of a god far above the heavenly thousand. Other than that, nada.


And rank isn't everything. It's still a hint to the fact that one of the strongest members of the 9th gate is superior to a random S rank dude that will likely never come up again, as his soul is now part of an unimaginable large pool. The S rank varies a lot, much like how the D rank goes from High 8-C to 8-A. That in no way means a completely physical S rank is superior to a physical member of the heavenly thousand. It's not a fair assumption to make. And being implied to be over level 100 means nothing. Han just gained stats equivalent to 180 levels. When level 0 he found level 70 monsters to be small fry. Dragoniak is level 120 if I recall correctly. Han soloed the thing two arcs ago.

Despite referencing what I said, you seem to have missed the point where I point out that her S rank rating comes from her ability to summon the afromentioned gods.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

I see what you're saying, but you're incorrect/not addressing certain things.

Firstly, the percent increases. This "increase to his attack power" somehow not correlating to his int (or even his str) makes no sense. It's literally on his stat screen, he has a base stat plus a particular number. And he's even said that increasing his intelligence, increases his magic attack power. Simply because the exact same language isn't used doesn't mean it has zero effect on a stat. In this case, the same language is used, as his INT directly correlates to his magic attack power. Same thing with his STR, which has been directly stated and shown to correspond to his physical strength. They're equivalent. He literally gains strength points when doing strength training, so to say the two aren't directly related, or that the % increases to his physical strength don't affect his STR stat is strictly incorrect.

Secondly, percentages stack, and you seem to be treating them as though they do not. Not one of his %'s being above 600% means little when he has multiple smaller percentages that , when combined, produce a significantly higher value than whatever the original value was. That's simply how percents stack on each other. Having two 50% increases results in a greater value than a single 100% increase. And Han has received tons of these kinds of % increases.

Thirdly, you didn't really fully address how Red Hair one shot a god with little difficulty. "Zagan was only using 10%." And Zagan is still a god while only using 10% of his power. And he was still one shot, meaning that Red Hair is vastly above that.

As far as Hwan and the company goes, while it's logical to say that the President is indeed the strongest, much of his strength comes from hax. But when we look at the feats, the President was similarly one shot by Hwan multiple times, whereas Red Hair wasn't one shot by Zagan. Generally speaking, feats > statements. Red Hair one shotting a god is right there and in your face. Hwan one shotting the President multiple times is also right there and in your face. The argument can now be presented that the President's durability, doesn't compare to that of the Red Hair's. Red Hair also has superior feats to that of the CEO. Once again, rank isn't everything, so using it as a means to attempt to objectively say he's weaker is incorrect.

I'll concede from the lore perspective, since that logic seems more sound that the logic previously presented. Heavenly thousand are, lore wise, supposed to be able to take on multiple guilds of the 9th gate. Though, being fair, we have no clue where these members rank compared to Hwan, as no specifics have been given as to their rank within the heavenly thousand. We also don't know who the weakest member of the Heavenly thousand is, and for what reason. Using them as scaling, while generally seems like a good idea, is a bit hard since we know so little about who ranks where. Hwan could be anywhere from rank 999 to rank 567 to rank 87. We don't know, same with the other members.

The 100 levels thing, while a fair point, was more so me just pointing out what was stated in the text. There's not really a reason why a purely physical S rank can't be physically superior to someone of the heavenly thousand when half of the members we've seen are hax based. Seeker himself is particularly weak physically without his space control barrier. His hax is what likely gets him to heavenly thousand level. It's a fair comparison to make when many in verse have stats far above their level (or rank).

And yes while red hair is a one of who is unlikely to appear again (inb4 he's shown to be one of the heavenly thousand), that doesn't mean we can just ignore his feat of one shotting a god, who we know from the lore as being incredibly powerful, even at 10%.

@Ant

Alright.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Again, you failed to counter my main point. Cheon is stated to be one of the strongest members of the nine gates, and the heavenly thousand in general are stated to be able to singlehandedly stand up to one of the ten guilds at once.

The Company is one of the ten guilds.

The ninth gate is far above the company.

The Dan-Ui guild, one of the members of the ninth gate, viewed one-shotting a full powered god to be expected. There is no in-verse reason for a god to be more impressive than a heavenly thousand member, and there seems to be a heck of a lot to say that they aren't.


Stats=/=Potency. Unless you believe all his % based stat amps affect his actual stats (Which you should know for a fact to be wrong), your point is just a non-sequitur. Mana Bomb increases his magical attack potency by 600%, and has nothing to do with his intelligence stat. Time Acceleration makes him 2000% faster, and has nothing to do with his agility stat.

You simply cannot claim that his skills amplifications always aply to his skills. It's ridiculous to claim that. His undead slayer title makes that pretty clear. It increases his attack power and durability by 30%, and it increases his stats. The two are separate things. Cehonbu skills also reflect this. The ki control increases his stats by 10%, the footwork increases his plain speed by 10%.


Your second point is also pretty wonky. They stack, yes. His percentages are still nowhere above x8 before he reaches 7-C and above. Because they are almost never actually stacked, as he doesn't go around dual wielding a blunt weapon and a sword. All his passive stat amps are already mostly there by his tier 7 keys, so percentages on top of those aren't any more impressive then what he would be if his base was that strong without the skills amping him. Weather he had a passive that made him 5 times stronger when he made the meteor or not, if he gets twice as strong later it's still the same.


For your third point, so what? You seem to be stuck up on the point that gods are all above the heavenly thousand to the point where they would stomp. They are not. Purple hair taught she could one-shot a god, and the only feat a god would have had that would have made them too impressive to scale to took her 1000 years of saving up energy for a kamikaze attack. There is no reason not to think that Han is more than a tenth as powerful as a fallen god. None at all. The President is stated to be stronger than redhead, plain out. Your train of logic simply means that Zagan is not at all impressive as far as power goes.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Oh shit, just realized that Zagan is 7-B at 10%...

I mean, I still think Han is superior to the reandom S class by virtue of being comparable to Cheon, since even Berith needed to use 10% to counter some of the golems that the Dan Ul giuld uses to flaunt their power. Cheon is pretty damn strong as a guild, but I doubt the golems are stronger than one of the best of the 9th gate.


I'll update Han to Low 7-B for now, we can discuss weather him scaling to a tenth of Hwan works or not.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

I'll return here later on, when I'm less busy with some things.

Though I already conceded on the lore part, I've already established that his stats don't scale linearly, so I don't see the point in saying that stats =/= potency. I was already suggesting such by saying that his stats don't scale linearly. But an increase in his intelligence is indeed an increase in his magic power and therefore its potency. Same thing can be said of his strength stat and his physical strength.

Also, if there's no reason for a god to be more impressive than a heavenly thousand member, then, on that same token, there's no real reason for the reverse as well. While an anomaly, Arc is still vastly above what the Dan UI guild can handle, despite not being part of the Heavenly thousand. And Amateratsu's sleeping corpse, AP wise, solos the verse despite there being no mention of her being part of the heavenly thousand while she was awake. Same thing with the gods of Asgard. Han isn't part of the Heavenly thousand and he's managed to defeat three different members, albeit, with some help, but the feat is there nonetheless.

Also:

It increases his attack power and durability by 30%, and it increases his stats. The two are separate things.

This bit makes zero sense. His attack power and durability can be, and are, expressed through his stats. The 30% has to apply to a number, and the only other number he has, aside from his current level, are his stats. (Excluding skill specific things like the number of mana arrows he can fire). Percentages work by being applied to a number, and if they're not applied to his stats, then what number are they being applied to? His stats are the only real option, and it's consistently shown when he has his base stat plus some number (regardless of whether or not the number is actually the true value or not). And these percentages do stack merely by how the math works. Say his INT stat is 100, and he has three buffs that give him a 30%, 50%, and 40% increase. After the first buff, he'll be at 130 INT. After the second, he'll be at 195 INT. After the third buff, he's at 273 INT, nearly triple his original value.

I'll get back to it later, though.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

The tl;dr again, it makes no sense for something like "hand striking speed" to aply to Agility as a stat. And again, there is a difference between a specific increase and a stat increase. It's made clear in Ep. 14. where increases in "Agility" and "Strength" are different from increases in "Attack Potency" and "Movement Speed" according to his own ability description. Furthermore, I am backed up by Ep.16 where his Status clearly shows that he only gains a total of 10% stat increase, despite the fact that by your logic he'd be getting over 30%.

Arc is also a non-factor here, Arc absolutely slaps everyone. The gods scale above the mountain sized golems that the Dan-Ul guild used as a token of good will, something that any top-tier fighter should be above of. Amaterasu took 1000 years of sucking up energy to get to that level, you can't say every god is normally on that level.

Stat=/=potency is in the point of his ability not viewing them as the same. INT increases his magical potency, but when a skill says +50% speed or magical power, it does not refer to DEX or INT.


"The 30% has to apply to a number"... why? This makes zero sense. I just gave you an example where the system clearly differentiates the stat and the raw output. Footwork increases his speed. Qi control increases his DEX. The two are obtained in the same chapter, so different wording isn't an excuse.

Not everything needs to have a number on his status window. The idea of an attack twice your power is not that difficult, and has no reason to be represented on his status window as his personal stats are unaffected.


"then what number are they being applied to?" Before I explain this, let me ask, what number does 300% increased mana regen apply to? Or the 20% increase in "Hand Striking Speed"? His stats? No, it applies to his mana Regenerationn and his hand striking speed.

Anyway, to the obvious, it says itself what it applies to. I mean, how do you apply "+10% hand strike speed" or "+20% movement speed" to Agility when in the same chapter there is a skill that increases agility by 10%? If the two are differentiated, then there is no reason to assume that they are the same.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

Hell, how is the 500% increase in durability supposed to work?

He got it as a 300 vitality landmark, but by your logic he would have 2500 vitality through it by now, and that is obviously and factually wrong.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

You're using examples that I did not provide. I didn't speak to hand striking speed, agility, etc. I explicitly spoke to skills that increase either his physical or magical strength, and for a specific reason. As, once again, those two things have been equilibrated to his STR and INT stats respectively. You're using the examples of strength and agility not applying to movement speed or attack potency to disprove of examples that have nothing to do with her characteristic.

To be fair, Arc hasn't shown feats above city level, and is rated as such. And while it's true that Amateratsu's corpse did suck up that much energy, it literally says that she was at 0.1% of her original power. With her original power being, presumably, when she was alive. (Season 4, Ep 60). I think it's a safe bet to say that most natural gods would be around that level of strength.

Furthermore, if he has stats that increase things such as his, power, strength, magic power, physical strength, etc, etc the question then becomes, what is the difference? Please tell, what is the difference between power and strength as they are definite synonyms. And then describe why they would have zero effect on his physical strength or magical power, as they are definite synonyms as well.

Last, percentages mathematically work by being valued in association with some number. 30% is unquantifiable and has literally no meaning unless we know what the 30% applies to. A 30% increase in magic power means his magic power increases by 30%, that's literally the mathematical functionality behind a percent increase. To imply otherwise is strictly incorrect.

...no, it applies to his mana Regenerationn and hand striking speed.

Once again, I wasn't talking about mana Regenerationn, which is given as a rate. Or hand striking speed, which is also given as a rate (though I don't think we've been given a base value for this one). I was speaking only to his physical and magic strength/power increases. Speaking to anything else aside from them is irrelevant towards the point I made. This statement in conjunction with the one implying that percentages don't have to be associated with some value also doesn't make sense.

500% increase in durability means that his durability would literally increase 5x over, making him a bit of a stonewall. But this is very likely not the case. And while he got it as a 300 vitality landmark, it may be, as you've said with other stats, not directly correlated to his vitality. But if it is, then the author simply did their math wrong (it's not like they haven't messed things up before), as 300 multiplied by 5 is 1500 (not 2500). By definition a 500% increase is an increase by a factor of 5. Anything else is incorrect. So, assuming durability is directly proportional to vitality, it simply means that the author did their math wrong.

But, once again, Han's stats don't scale linearly. So it doesn't really matter.

 

[Ricsi-viragosi]

I don't want to offend you, but this is just...

"So, assuming durability is directly proportional to vitality"

Again, no offense, but I don't know how else to say it: no.

And before you make your counter, could you please bother giving proof? I have proof against your idea, after all. According to you, a % increase in magic power should increase his INT, and a % increase in dura should increase his VIT. But it doesn't. It didn't back in season 2, 31, where the 30% increase in magical power didn't affect his INT. Nor did his INT increase thanks to the staff of Hermes. Nor in the newest episode, where a 500% increase in dura didn't affect his VIT stat.

The idea that "all increases in INT increase magical power, but not all increases in magical power increase INT" is a simple one, and saying that "the author is bad with numbers" is not an argument. Saying it's a plot hole is not an argument when every item or skill he got that is stated to increase magical power left his INT unaffected.


Intelligence is not directly proportional to magic power, calculating speed and memory

Strength isn't directly proportional to raw power

Durability is not proportional to vitality. Nor is it proportional to Regenerationn.

The stats increasing increase those things, but those increasing due to skills doesn't increase the stats.

 

[FloweryAlex]

I'll have to agree with Ricsi here.

Increases to things like Magical Attack Power, Speed and etc. constantly leave the Stats unaffected.

That, and Ricsi did give links to the chapter where attack power and STR stat are reffered to differently by the skill, and his skill making the distinction between INT and "Magical Attack Power" makes it clear that the increase in the latter isn't = to the former.

 

[Litentric_Teon]

Firstly, assuming means just that, assuming, not that I actually believe vitality is directly proportional to vitality. Once again, I am only talking about magic power as it relates to INT and physical strength as it relates to STR.

I will be back once I find the time to do this since this week and the upcoming weeks are rather busy for me. But I would like to ask, if a 500% increase in magical power doesn't increase his INT by 500%, then what does it increase? Percentages must apply to a number to have any value at all, so they must be applied to something.

 

[Nico-v11]

What about that Subjective Reality we talked about?