The endless war against Yogiri's fans. (Debunking Yogiri and Instant death characters)

[Nexus_still_slams]

Back Again (Hi, first of all, i've seen a lot of people complaining about my debunks or sweet dao's debunks on facebook and discord (yes i see everything you say), such as "these debunks are garbage", "they've never read instant death it's obvious" etc. I want to say that im' absolutely not a hater of the verse, I just think that a lot of instant death pages contain wank abilities, so I just want these pages to be as accurate as possible. And nobody's stopping you from coming to the threads to argue why these debunks are bad and the abilites should stay, I find it too simple to just criticize and not come and talk. And please stop talking about the fact that there are other feats proving the hax debunks and therefore these debunks are bad, we are only debunking the reasoning behind the hax provided on the pages, it has nothing to do with other feats not given on the character pages. I therefore invite all these people to come and argue on the threads in order to provide a constructive exchange. No hate and let's get on with the debunks.

Edit : They banned me from their chat so i can't see when they talk about me lol, it shows a lot.

UEG:

• Flight, Non-Physical Interaction, Nonexistent Physiology (Nature Type 1, Aspect Type 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5; Can exist after the destruction of his body, soul, mind, and concept, before regenerating himself over time) (Isn't she a girl?)

The panels where UEG is erased are this one and these ones. First, it was said nowhere that her soul, mind, and concept were erased. The divine core is not said to be a concept . The only justification used is the fact that Rick's sword can attack conceptually, but that doesn't mean that he conceptually attacked UEG or that the divine core is conceptual (Anyway it was remove in another threads). Contrary to that, we are only told that the body of UEG has been erased and not anything else.

He had definitely felt her destruction. Her body had been erased, and her presence had vanished. Rick was absolutely certain she had been defeated. Yet even so, she stood before them like nothing had happened.

The justification for the NEP is that she can exist after the destruction of her body, soul, mind, and concept before regenerating herself over time.

"You... You should have been erased." He had watched her being erased along with the universe around her, failing to escape in time. And in truth, up until that point, the UEG had ceased to exist.
"Indeed, I was erased, but sorry, that is not enough to kill me. Now, if something like that takes you by surprise, I feel as if I have seen the limits of your abilities. Let us bring an end to this."

Nothing like that is said here. He just said that UEG should have been erased, which she confirmed by saying that she WAS erased, but not that she was currently erased. There is no mention that she was still in a non-existence state when she spoke. It was even said that she was standing behind him, which shouldn't be possible if she doesn't exist. And again, it is said nowhere that the attack of Touichirou erased her at another level than just the physical level.

There's also this chapter, where a godess is dead and going to the bottom of a sea of darkness (which should prove the nep), first, being able to exist in a non-existent place do not qualify for a nep because you are still existent. It is stated nowhere that it a real non-existent place, and directions are mentionned in the place which is contradictory to a non-existent void (the concept of direction should not apply here)

Looking around, there was nothing but darkness in every direction.

And while she is in this state, she cannot do anything, like see or interact with the world, she's just here, waiting for her resurection.

she could still see the world she had lived in, but she was unable to influence it anymore. How long would she be able to see it? Before long, darkness would close in around her and she wouldn't be able to see anything.

To continue, when UEG was in the void, she said that a concept like "nothing" cannot exist, was horrified of this non-existent place and could not do anything about it (weird if she's herself non-existent) and she should have a nep 1 all aspects ? And the simple fact that she "died" after being absorbed by the darkness shows that she has no NEP, since the very principle of this void is the fact that nothing can exist in it, and UEG was no exception to this rule, if she could remain non-existent the void would have done nothing to her.

"It's useless. There's nothing here. You can't destroy something that isn't there."
"Don't **** with me! There's no such concept!"

Hearing that, UEG was horrified. She was left alone in a place where there was nothing like this. She just realized what it meant.

If there is nothing and nowhere to go, then she can create it here herself. She is a god, so she can at least do creation. It should be possible, but no matter what was made, it immediately melted into the darkness. Nothing is allowed to exist here.And UEG realized that she was in the process of melting into the darkness.She tried to keep herself together somehow, but gradually she began to lose sight of what she was doing.

UEG lost her shape, lost sense of who she was, and eventually disappeared into the darkness.

• Resurrection (Mid-Godly over time, Non-Combat Applicable; Given time, Gods will always reappear even if they are killed or destroyed)

Why is that a Mid-Godly resurrection?? The only thing said is that even if you erased gods, they will reappear, but since when is "erased" assumed to be at a physical and soul level? The only thing this panel qualifies for is a Low-Godly resurrection unless there's more scans related to this.

• Regeneration (Mid-Godly; She can regenerate herself even after her divine core and whole body were destroyed. Regenerated seconds after her divine core was destroyed by Rick's sword.[2] Gods can still regenerate from states[3][4] like causality erasure and complete erasure.[5])

Literally the same thing, the same panel is used for this regeneration, with a panel that says things like causality erasure and complete erasure are common things in the sea (We don't even know the meaning of causality and complete erasure, it is literally impossible to use), but it doesn't say that the gods can regenerate from such erasure, it is just an assumption that if "anyone" can do this then the gods can regenerate from such erasure, plus, standards for mid-godly regeneration are the erasure of body, mind, and soul, which is not demonstrated in the panels (no, "complete erasure" does not necessarily mean an erasure of these aspects).

• Conceptual Manipulation, Durability Negation and Spatial Manipulation (Via the ability of the sword that can cut through space and concepts[19]), Statistics Amplification (Able to raise all physical stats[20] by 10000)

Could someone just put a type to this conceptual manipulation?

Yukimasa:

• Plot Manipulation, Text Manipulation, & Fate Manipulation (Yukimasa's class is the Reader and according to the narration, the novel is a manifestation of his power that tells the story from the past into the future in first person perspective from Yukimasa's perspective as the "main character." There are other stories pertaining to other characters as "side characters" under the section of "side stories" written in third person perspective. Writing into his novel allows Yukimasa to erase or alter future events at his convenience, much like a writer[2])

In my opinion that's not a plot manipulation, the only thing that tends to show it is a simple analogy between the fact that he can change the future thanks to his book and an author. The only thing he can do with his power is to modify the future at a low degree and without contradiction with past events. this power has no effects like a plot manipulation but is just a fate manipulation and a text manipulation with an analogy. he should show that he can manipulate the aspect of plot, which affect the future, and not altering the Future directly.

(Yukimasa's power → Manifest in a book → Yukimasa can write in this book which affect plot → modify future [valid plot manip])
(Yukimasa's power → Manifest in a book → Yukimasa can write in this book → modify future [not valid plot manip because he only affect the future and not plot])



Yogiri :

• Regeneration Negation (Mid-Godly. Permanently killed UEG[23])

Should be changed to Low godly for reasons above.

• Resistance to Text Manipulation & Fate Manipulation (Yogiri resisted Yukimasa's power, and not only that but overwhelmed it to the point that the text written in the novel turned against Yukimasa himself and detailed his demise to Yogiri instead[76])

This is not a resistance : the whole point of Yogiri's character in Instant Death is to win every time, being the strongest, without limit etc. And if we look closely at the panel of "Resistance", it was just that for every possibility he could write, Yukimasa end up dead, this is just the same case as Aoi, for every possibility, Yogiri win, that's why the book turned against him. and not because Yogiri can resist to his power. Every possibility lead to Yogiri's win.

Conclusion :

• UEG : Removal of Non-existent Physiology, downgrade of Mid-Godly Regeneration / Resurection to Low-Godly. (In fact it should be remove to all gods)
• Yukimasa : Removal of Plot manipulation
• Yogiri : Downgrade of Mid-Godly regeneration negation to Low-Godly, Removal of resistance to text manipulation and Fate manipulation by the Yukimasa's Hax justification.

Agree : TWILIGHT-OP (Everything except neutral on plot manipulation removal), Dark_Soul20189 (also neutral on plot manip), SweetDao, Grabbing_dragon, Georredannea15, 07epicgg07 (Everything except neutral on plot manip), Eseseso, Astral_Trinity439, FaZe_Liam, Van_Npc, RM97, Robo432343, DarlingAurora, ActuallySpaceMan42, DarkDragonMedeus, Catbowtie

Disagree : Deidalius, YungManzi​

Neutral :

(Please precise the points you agree and the points you disagree)

 

[TWILIGHT-OP]

Unreal, back to back downgrades

 

[MrKerf]

The Great Sage’s Quest to Downgrade Instant Death

 

[TWILIGHT-OP]

• UEG : Removal of Non-existent Physiology, downgrade of Mid-Godly Regeneration / Resurection to Low-Godly. (In fact it should be remove to all gods)

Yeah looks good agree.

• Yukimasa : Removal of Plot manipulation

Won't comment, but neutral.

• Yogiri : Downgrade of Mid-Godly regeneration negation to Low-Godly, Removal of resistance to text manipulation and Fate manipulation by the Yukimasa's Hax justification.

Yeah fine with it too.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

I agree with everything, but Plot manipulation which I am currently neutral about it to be removed.

 

[SweetDao]

Regarding Mid-Godly resurrection and Mid-Godly Regeneration, I thought that it should have been viable, but after careful research, nothing really prove it, so yeah, I'm fine with the downgrade.

Plot should be removed if there is no supporting evidence.

Rest is fine.

 

[Deidalius]

(inb4 ID supporters continue to do nothing and let all the downgrades pass without even trying to defend their verse)

I'd be arguing if I read the light novels but I'm allergic to reading.

 

[SweetDao]

(inb4 ID supporters continue to do nothing and let all the downgrades pass without even trying to defend their verse)

And then complain that "those were shitty debunks" yet, they do nothing. Funniest shit I've seen in a while.

I'd be arguing if I read the light novels but I'm allergic to reading.

I mean, you're allergic to trash-tier LN, so that's fine, you're really saving yourself some unnecessary trouble.

 

[Robo432343]

maybe some of the supporters don't even know this verse is being downgraded
i'll wait for more input

 

[SweetDao]

maybe some of the supporters don't even know this verse is being downgraded

In the Imaginary Ultimate Ensemble World maybe...

 

[Nexus_still_slams]

maybe some of the supporters don't even know this verse is being downgraded
i'll wait for more input

A lot of the supporters do know because i've seen a lot of screen of them talking about these downgrades but they all have an excuse to not comming on the threads

 

[Deidalius]

And then complain that "those were shitty debunks" yet, they do nothing. Funniest shit I've seen in a while.

Ngl, pretty scummy of them. If I gave C ability to a character. I'd be defending it with my life unless I changed my mind. (Same if I wanked a character, I would defend it with my life)

I mean, you're allergic to trash-tier LN, so that's fine, you're really saving yourself some unnecessary trouble.

How bad are the novels? Isekai at peace/Wild last boss levels of bad?
I know the manga and anime are good.

A lot of the supporters do know because i've seen a lot of screen of them talking about these downgrades but they all have an excuse to not comming on the threads

I can confirm. All they do is complain and call the downgraders biased (They are) and that they're wrong without even trying to defend their verse. Pretty cowardly.

 

[SweetDao]

How bad are the novels? Isekai at peace/Wild last boss levels of bad?

Isekai at peace has Shallow Vernal, so that's, out of necessity, better than ID.

AWLBA do have some moment I'd say, so that's more than ID once again.

Overall, it has been a long time since I've read something "as bad". Obviously, this is just my opinion, but I got more enjoyment reading this than ID.

I know the manga and anime are good.

The manga and anime are way better, yeah. Still suffer from the same problems, though.

 

[TWILIGHT-OP]

reading this than ID.

I had a stroke while reading it.

 

[Deidalius]

Isekai at peace has Shallow Vernal, so that's, out of necessity, better than ID.

AWLBA do have some moment I'd say, so that's more than ID once again.

Overall, it has been a long time since I've read something "as bad". Obviously, this is just my opinion, but I got more enjoyment reading this than ID.

The manga and anime are way better, yeah. Still suffer from the same problems, though.

I don't get the hype behind shallow vernal tbh. She's white, she's pale, she has a nice body and what else? Emotionless anime girls aren't that hard to find. I doubt she's that unique or special.

I talked a lot about off topic stuff. I'll probably read the scans in a while just to argue and defend my man. (I haven't read the novels)

 

[SweetDao]

anime girls

All the reason needed.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

Ngl, pretty scummy of them. If I gave C ability to a character. I'd be defending it with my life unless I changed my mind. (Same if I wanked a character, I would defend it with my life)

The funny thing is that they are considering just making a CRT, to delete the verse so "Misinformation about Yogiri being so weak, don't spread"

 

[SweetDao]

The funny thing is that they are considering just making a CRT, to delete the verse so "Misinformation about Yogiri being so weak, don't spread"

They are just asking for the End of All Illusions to release, I swear.

 

[Deidalius]

The funny thing is that they are considering just making a CRT, to delete the verse so "Misinformation about Yogiri being so weak, don't spread"

If they do that, I will read the light novels and powerscale the verse myself just to prevent the verse from being deleted. That is scummy as ****. Deleting a verse just because you don't want to argue in the downgrade threads.

 

[Grabbing_dragon]

I agree with everything even plot manipulation.
This is a good exempel of plot manipulation it is affecting the story itself

 

[Deidalius]

UEG:


The panels where UEG is erased are this one and these ones. First, it was said nowhere that her soul, mind, and concept were erased. The divine core is not said to be a concept . The only justification used is the fact that Rick's sword can attack conceptually, but that doesn't mean that he conceptually attacked UEG or that the divine core is conceptual (Anyway it was remove in another threads). Contrary to that, we are only told that the body of UEG has been erased and not anything else.


The justification for the NEP is that she can exist after the destruction of her body, soul, mind, and concept before regenerating herself over time.

Nothing like that is said here. He just said that UEG should have been erased, which she confirmed by saying that she WAS erased, but not that she was currently erased. There is no mention that she was still in a non-existence state when she spoke. It was even said that she was standing behind him, which shouldn't be possible if she doesn't exist. And again, it is said nowhere that the attack of Touichirou erased her at another level than just the physical level.

I agree. This is not NEP. The first scan has UEG revive from the destruction of her body. It is possible that that sword guy can delete concepts but unless his sword always deletes everything conceptually or further context tells you that he used conceptual erasure, we should just assume he just erased UEG's body.

As for the second scan. The universe UEG was in, and UEG herself were erased from existence and UEG still managed to resurrect from that. That seems more like a feat of regeneration rather than NEP because nothing proves she can do anything while being non-existent, just that she can regenerate from it.

What does it mean to be erased from existence? Does it mean that your soul and mind get deleted too? I mean, souls and minds exist in ID, they're part of your existence, they should probably be included in existence erasure unless you want to imply that UEG got her body deleted but not her soul and mind too

Either way, this should be at least Low godly regeneration, if UEG doesn't have Low godly regen, it should be added to her profile

If EE gets interpreted as erasing your mind and body too, then she should get Mid godly regeneration

There's also this chapter, where a godess is dead and going to the bottom of a sea of darkness (which should prove the nep), first, being able to exist in a non-existent place do not qualify for a nep because you are still existent. It is stated nowhere that it a real non-existent place, and directions are mentionned in the place which is contradictory to a non-existent void (the concept of direction should not apply here)





And while she is in this state, she cannot do anything, like see or interact with the world, she's just here, waiting for her resurection.





To continue, when UEG was in the void, she said that a concept like "nothing" cannot exist, was horrified of this non-existent place and could not do anything about it (weird if she's herself non-existent) and she should have a nep 1 all aspects ? And the simple fact that she "died" after being absorbed by the darkness shows that she has no NEP, since the very principle of this void is the fact that nothing can exist in it, and UEG was no exception to this rule, if she could remain non-existent the void would have done nothing to her.

These texts explicitly show that UEG isn't non existent, but rather that she is in slowly being erased from existence. Which further proves that she doesn't have NEP, I agree.

Why is that a Mid-Godly resurrection?? The only thing said is that even if you erased gods, they will reappear, but since when is "erased" assumed to be at a physical and soul level? The only thing this panel qualifies for is a Low-Godly resurrection unless there's more scans related to this.


Literally the same thing, the same panel is used for this regeneration, with a panel that says things like causality erasure and complete erasure are common things in the sea (We don't even know the meaning of causality and complete erasure, it is literally impossible to use), but it doesn't say that the gods can regenerate from such erasure, it is just an assumption that if "anyone" can do this then the gods can regenerate from such erasure, plus, standards for mid-godly regeneration are the erasure of body, mind, and soul, which is not demonstrated in the panels (no, "complete erasure" does not necessarily mean an erasure of these aspects).

After looking at her profile, I agree with the downgrade. Nothing proves she can continue living as a ghost without a body or as a mind. So we should just assume she can just regenerate from complete body destruction. Her mid godly should be changed to Low godly regeneration/resurrection.
Also the scans don't prove she can regenerate from causality/conceptual erasure so those things should be removed too.

Could someone just put a type to this conceptual manipulation?

It seems like it's a type of conceptual erasure. Destroying a concept can be any type of CM. It should have a type yeah. If only a light novel reader could look at the context and tell us what type of CM this is...

Yukimasa:

In my opinion that's not a plot manipulation, the only thing that tends to show it is a simple analogy between the fact that he can change the future thanks to his book and an author. The only thing he can do with his power is to modify the future at a low degree and without contradiction with past events. this power has no effects like a plot manipulation but is just a fate manipulation and a text manipulation with an analogy. he should show that he can manipulate the aspect of plot, which affect the future, and not altering the Future directly.

(Yukimasa's power → Manifest in a book → Yukimasa can write in this book which affect plot → modify future [valid plot manip])
(Yukimasa's power → Manifest in a book → Yukimasa can write in this book → modify future [not valid plot manip because he only affect the future and not plot])

Yukimasa:

In my opinion that's not a plot manipulation, the only thing that tends to show it is a simple analogy between the fact that he can change the future thanks to his book and an author. The only thing he can do with his power is to modify the future at a low degree and without contradiction with past events. this power has no effects like a plot manipulation but is just a fate manipulation and a text manipulation with an analogy. he should show that he can manipulate the aspect of plot, which affect the future, and not altering the Future directly.

(Yukimasa's power → Manifest in a book → Yukimasa can write in this book which affect plot → modify future [valid plot manip])
(Yukimasa's power → Manifest in a book → Yukimasa can write in this book → modify future [not valid plot manip because he only affect the future and not plot])

I disagree with this, it seems like pretty text book plot manipulation. Yukimasa's can abilites should stay, I find it too simple to just criticize and not come and talk. And please stop talking about the fact that there are other feats proving the hax debunks and therefore these debunks are bad, we are only debunking the reasoning behind the hax provided on the pages, it has nothing to do with other feats not given on the character pages. I therefore invite all these people to come and argue on the threads in order to provide a constructive exchange. No hate and let's get on with the debunks.

Yogiri :

Should be changed to Low godly for reasons above.

I agree with changing his regen/resurrection negation from whatever it is now to Low godly.

This is not a resistance : the whole point of Yogiri's character in Instant Death is to win every time, being the strongest, without limit etc. And if we look closely at the panel of "Resistance", it was just that for every possibility he could write, Yukimasa end up dead, this is just the same case as Aoi, for every possibility, Yogiri win, that's why the book turned against him. and not because Yogiri can resist to his power. Every possibility lead to Yogiri's win.

I disagree. If you look at the anime (And maybe the manga, I don't remember well)
Yukimasa tries to rewrite Yogiri's future to make him die, multiple times but it fails. This seems like textbook resistance to plot/fate hax because if he didn't had those resistances, Yukimasa's abilities would have nullified Yogiri's death manipulation but the fact that he didn't proves that Yogiri can bypass them.

List me as neutral

I agree with the first point, disagree with the second point and third point.

 

[Nexus_still_slams]

I disagree with this, it seems like pretty text book plot manipulation.

By his book, he does not affect plot but only the future, that does not qualify for a plot manipulation but a fate manipulation, just because he write in a book does not mean he directly change plot.

I disagree. If you look at the anime (And maybe the manga, I don't remember well)
Yukimasa tries to rewrite Yogiri's future to make him die, multiple times but it fails. This seems like textbook resistance to plot/fate hax because if he didn't had those resistances, Yukimasa's abilities would have nullified Yogiri's death manipulation but the fact that he didn't proves that Yogiri can bypass them.

Like i said, with Aoi's power, we know that Yogiri win in every possible future, so even if Yukimasa change the future it won't work because yogiri win every times, and yukimasa cannot write contradictory things, so he cannot write yogiri's future, but that's not a resistance, i would say that it's more a plot armor or a passive fate manipulation that makes him always him (or Maybe just an overwhelmed power).

 

[SweetDao]

What does it mean to be erased from existence? Does it mean that your soul and mind get deleted too? I mean, souls and minds exist in ID, they're part of your existence, they should probably be included in existence erasure unless you want to imply that UEG got her body deleted but not her soul and mind too

Quick information message, but the "erasure" here is more akin to annihilation than a traditional "erasure". While, yeah, you're right that soul and mind exist within ID, there is no proof that erasure or annihilation erase at such a level. There is no proof whatsoever that she got erased to such levels.

 

[Deidalius]

By his book, he does not affect plot but only the future, that does not qualify for a plot manipulation but a fate manipulation, just because he write in a book does not mean he directly change plot.

How does it not count as plot manipulation??
He literally changed what will happen by writing about it in a book. TextBOOK plothax

Like i said, with Aoi's power, we know that Yogiri win in every possible future, so even if Yukimasa change the future it won't work because yogiri win every times, and yukimasa cannot write contradictory things, so he cannot write yogiri's future, but that's not a resistance, i would say that it's more a plot armor or a passive fate manipulation that makes him always him (or Maybe just an overwhelmed power).

Having a plot armor or "passive fate manipulation that makes you always win" is plot/fate hax resistance...

You should have been arguing about his plot hax being limited by what is possible instead.

Plot hax doesn't always mean you auto win. You can have plot hax and still lose fights.

 

[Deidalius]

I changed my mind, put me in the disagree section of the OP.

 

[SweetDao]

He literally changed what will happen by writing about it in a book. TextBOOK plothax

Light Yagami plot hax coming next ?

You should have been arguing about his plot hax being limited by what is possible instead.

Yogurt is just at the center/end of Fate. Fate was compared to plot as an analogy. There is no "fundamental plot" for the world or the cosmology.

 

[Georredannea15]

UEG:

• Flight, Non-Physical Interaction, Nonexistent Physiology (Nature Type 1, Aspect Type 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5; Can exist after the destruction of his body, soul, mind, and concept, before regenerating himself over time) (Isn't she a girl?)

The panels where UEG is erased are this one and these ones. First, it was said nowhere that her soul, mind, and concept were erased. The divine core is not said to be a concept . The only justification used is the fact that Rick's sword can attack conceptually, but that doesn't mean that he conceptually attacked UEG or that the divine core is conceptual (Anyway it was remove in another threads). Contrary to that, we are only told that the body of UEG has been erased and not anything else.

He had definitely felt her destruction. Her body had been erased, and her presence had vanished. Rick was absolutely certain she had been defeated. Yet even so, she stood before them like nothing had happened.

This is basically true, yes. If all we are shown is that the body is erased and we are not given any extra context about other aspects of existence, then it is not NEP because NEP requires at least 1 aspect type.

The justification for the NEP is that she can exist after the destruction of her body, soul, mind, and concept before regenerating herself over time.

"You... You should have been erased." He had watched her being erased along with the universe around her, failing to escape in time. And in truth, up until that point, the UEG had ceased to exist.
"Indeed, I was erased, but sorry, that is not enough to kill me. Now, if something like that takes you by surprise, I feel as if I have seen the limits of your abilities. Let us bring an end to this."

Nothing like that is said here. He just said that UEG should have been erased, which she confirmed by saying that she WAS erased, but not that she was currently erased. There is no mention that she was still in a non-existence state when she spoke. It was even said that she was standing behind him, which shouldn't be possible if she doesn't exist. And again, it is said nowhere that the attack of Touichirou erased her at another level than just the physical level.

Well, when I look at it, it can basically give you some immunity because you are deprived of these species but NEP doesn't because NEP = being non-existence =/=being lack

There's also this chapter, where a godess is dead and going to the bottom of a sea of darkness (which should prove the nep), first, being able to exist in a non-existent place do not qualify for a nep because you are still existent. It is stated nowhere that it a real non-existent place, and directions are mentionned in the place which is contradictory to a non-existent void (the concept of direction should not apply here)

Looking around, there was nothing but darkness in every direction.

1- Yes, basically exist in a non-exist place does not make you "non-existence."

Secondly, it talks about "nothing", so "nothingness". But there is a problem, basically even "nothingness" has energy in it just like a "void", so basically "void" and "nothingness" will not give you NEP, they are basically the same. For NEP you need to be directly "non-existent", meaning you don't even have energy or anything in you, but things like void and nothingness (which are basically synonyms) at least have energy in them.

• Resurrection (Mid-Godly over time, Non-Combat Applicable; Given time, Gods will always reappear even if they are killed or destroyed)

Why is that a Mid-Godly resurrection?? The only thing said is that even if you erased gods, they will reappear, but since when is "erased" assumed to be at a physical and soul level? The only thing this panel qualifies for is a Low-Godly resurrection unless there's more scans related to this.

Well, on the wiki we consider being"erasured" to be at least spirit, body and mind. So I think it's fine to keep this one, but it's still a majority decision.

• Regeneration (Mid-Godly; She can regenerate herself even after her divine core and whole body were destroyed. Regenerated seconds after her divine core was destroyed by Rick's sword.[2] Gods can still regenerate from states[3][4] like causality erasure and complete erasure.[5])

Literally the same thing, the same panel is used for this regeneration, with a panel that says things like causality erasure and complete erasure are common things in the sea (We don't even know the meaning of causality and complete erasure, it is literally impossible to use), but it doesn't say that the gods can regenerate from such erasure, it is just an assumption that if "anyone" can do this then the gods can regenerate from such erasure, plus, standards for mid-godly regeneration are the erasure of body, mind, and soul, which is not demonstrated in the panels (no, "complete erasure" does not necessarily mean an erasure of these aspects).

Basically same with above.

Yukimasa:

• Plot Manipulation, Text Manipulation, & Fate Manipulation (Yukimasa's class is the Reader and according to the narration, the novel is a manifestation of his power that tells the story from the past into the future in first person perspective from Yukimasa's perspective as the "main character." There are other stories pertaining to other characters as "side characters" under the section of "side stories" written in third person perspective. Writing into his novel allows Yukimasa to erase or alter future events at his convenience, much like a writer[2])

In my opinion that's not a plot manipulation, the only thing that tends to show it is a simple analogy between the fact that he can change the future thanks to his book and an author. The only thing he can do with his power is to modify the future at a low degree and without contradiction with past events. this power has no effects like a plot manipulation but is just a fate manipulation and a text manipulation with an analogy. he should show that he can manipulate the aspect of plot, which affect the future, and not altering the Future directly.

Yes, I definitely agree with that. Plot manipulation is about the changes you make to the whole story on a meta-fictional level, and the changes you make with Plot manipulation "must permanently affect the all of story."

For example, you should not make changes to just part "X" or just part "Y", it should be shown that you can permanently change both parts X and Y, or together with X, the entire scenario and story that comes after X.

Apart from that, controlling a certain period of time for a limited amount of time and not being able to ensure permanence gives you a classic fate manipulation.

 

[Nexus_still_slams]

How does it not count as plot manipulation??
He literally changed what will happen by writing about it in a book. TextBOOK plothax

Having a plot armor or "passive fate manipulation that makes you always win" is plot/fate hax resistance...

You should have been arguing about his plot hax being limited by what is possible instead.

Plot hax doesn't always mean you auto win. You can have plot hax and still lose fights.

fate hax, writing in a book doesn't mean you affect plot directly

 

[Deidalius]

Light Yagami plot hax coming next ?

Do I have to explain the many differences between Light's death hax and Yukimasa's plot hax?

Yukimasa can force certain events to happen by altering the future.

Yogurt is just at the center/end of Fate. Fate was compared to plot as an analogy. There is no "fundamental plot" for the world or the cosmology.

Are you hearing yourself? You just said plot and fate were compared.

Fate manipulation abilities in the verse can alter the future and events like writing a story or like plot armor, if anything, that seems to prove fate manipulation is the same as plot manipulation in the verse.

Yogiri being the end of fate (And the plot) would mean he has fate/plot manipulation if he can end them

Plot manipulation does not need to be "fundamental" to be plot manipulation. Idk what you're on about that

fate hax, writing in a book doesn't mean you affect plot directly

It does, it is equated to rewriting a story and the power is literally rewriting the story of what will happen or the story of others.

This is basically true, yes. If all we are shown is that the body is erased and we are not given any extra context about other aspects of existence, then it is not NEP because NEP requires at least 1 aspect type.


Well, when I look at it, it can basically give you some immunity because you are deprived of these species but NEP doesn't because NEP = being non-existence =/=being lack


1- Yes, basically exist in a non-exist place does not make you "non-existence."

Secondly, it talks about "nothing", so "nothingness". But there is a problem, basically even "nothingness" has energy in it just like a "void", so basically "void" and "nothingness" will not give you NEP, they are basically the same. For NEP you need to be directly "non-existent", meaning you don't even have energy or anything in you, but things like void and nothingness (which are basically synonyms) at least have energy in them.


Well, on the wiki we consider being"erasured" to be at least spirit, body and mind. So I think it's fine to keep this one, but it's still a majority decision.

Basically same with above.


Yes, I definitely agree with that. Plot manipulation is about the changes you make to the whole story on a meta-fictional level, and the changes you make with Plot manipulation "must permanently affect the all of story."

For example, you should not make changes to just part "X" or just part "Y", it should be shown that you can permanently change both parts X and Y, or together with X, the entire scenario and story that comes after X.

Apart from that, controlling a certain period of time for a limited amount of time and not being able to ensure permanence gives you a classic fate manipulation.

If this wiki equates existence erasure to erasing the body, soul and mind then I disagree with the low mid regeneration removal

Anyway, I want my vote to be changed to disagree with everything, basically

 

[Nexus_still_slams]

Well, on the wiki we consider being"erasured" to be at least spirit, body and mind. So I think it's fine to keep this one, but it's still a majority decision.

Basically same with above.

If this wiki equates existence erasure to erasing the body, soul and mind then I disagree with the low mid regeneration removal

According to the existence erasure page, erasure isn't on a mind, soul and body level by default

"This ability's destructive power is not absolute, and one should not assume that it can erase the soul by default. It can only be judged by what it has accomplished, and one's resistance to the ability can only be judged by the specific method by which this effect is achieved. The means vary from character to character,"

 

[Nexus_still_slams]

Anyway, I want my vote to be changed to disagree with everything, basically

Could you explain me why ?

Do I have to explain the many differences between Light's death hax and Yukimasa's plot hax?

Yukimasa can force certain events to happen by altering the future.

Are you hearing yourself? You just said plot and fate were compared.

Fate manipulation abilities in the verse can alter the future and events like writing a story or like plot armor, if anything, that seems to prove fate manipulation is the same as plot manipulation in the verse.

Yogiri being the end of fate (And the plot) would mean he has fate/plot manipulation if he can end them

Plot manipulation does not need to be "fundamental" to be plot manipulation. Idk what you're on about that

It does, it is equated to rewriting a story and the power is literally rewriting the story of what will happen or the story of others.

If this wiki equates existence erasure to erasing the body, soul and mind then I disagree with the low mid regeneration removal

Anyway, I want my vote to be changed to disagree with everything, basically

You said it, he only altering the future, not plot directly, this is the problem, he just alter Future and not Plot -> Future

 

[Georredannea15]

If this wiki equates existence erasure to erasing the body, soul and mind then I disagree with the low mid regeneration removal

If it's destroye your "whole existence", yeah.

According to the existence erasure page, erasure isn't on a mind, soul and body level by default

But being "completely erasured" should give you that, at least that's what I think. Well, if there's no definitive statement on that, then it seems fair enough

 

[SweetDao]

Do I have to explain the many differences between Light's death hax and Yukimasa's plot hax?

Yukimasa can force certain events to happen by altering the future.

Beside the fact that Yukimasa's power is more straightforward, yeah, I don't see the difference.

Are you hearing yourself? You just said plot and fate were compared.

Yeah, because Fate can be similar to the "plot" of the world/characters. This is a common analogy used in a lot of fictions.

Fate manipulation abilities in the verse can alter the future and events like writing a story or like plot armor, if anything, that seems to prove fate manipulation is the same as plot manipulation in the verse.

"Like writing a story", yeah, "like". It's not because your Fate Manip has a "book skin" that it makes it plot manip as a result.

Even Aoi just straight up uses the "script" analogy to explain her power, she's not saying the world has a "script" like a movie, just that Fate could be likened to one. Which is, again, something common in fiction.

Yogiri being the end of fate (And the plot) would mean he has fate/plot manipulation if he can end them

No, it just means that nothing can go past him.

Plot manipulation does not need to be "fundamental" to be plot manipulation. Idk what you're on about that

It is, because merely saying "Hey, I'm controlling fate like an author write a book" would be enough to grant people Plot Manipulation.

 

[SweetDao]

If it's destroye your "whole existence", yeah.

The erasure here is merely "annihilation", not even an existence erasure.

 

[Georredannea15]

The erasure here is merely "annihilation", not even an existence erasure.

Then yeah, it's not mid godly. It should more context for Mid-Godly.

 

[Nexus_still_slams]

If it's destroye your "whole existence", yeah.

But being "completely erasured" should give you that, at least that's what I think. Well, if there's no definitive statement on that, then it seems fair enough

there's no further explanation to "Complete erasure" so i think it should not be counted at such levels

 

[07epicgg07]

Checked the justifications.

Everything seems fine for me except for plot manipulation and mid godly regen (I'm leaning neutral on plot manip and I don't have enough context on what the divine core is).

It's weird that the vsbw ID supporters aren't even attempting to defend their own verse. If there was even an effort to attempt to defend the verse, there might not be back to back downgrades.

And if it's true that vsbw ID supporters are complaining about the debunk in another platform instead of attempting to address it in this forum, that's even worse.

 

[SweetDao]

I don't have enough context on what the divine core is

There is no additional context. It's just something existing within a God's body.

 

[07epicgg07]

There is no additional context. It's just something existing within a God's body.

Wait, so there's no other context even in the novel or the vsbw ID supporters not adding context? If so (and I haven't read the light novel), then feel free to remove mid godly and replace it with low godly.

 

[SweetDao]

Wait, so there's no other context even in the novel or the vsbw ID supporters not adding context? If so (and I haven't read the light novel), then feel free to remove mid godly and replace it with low godly.

From what I've read and unless I'm forgetting something, yeah. The Divine Core is just "something" inside the body of a God.