Instant death revision

[SweetDao]

Don't know that, although it's also weird when he has no "sense of self", yet he's still just "almost died".

For the context, a big ass rock fell on his head and he was at death's door for a few moments (but was able to come back to reality thanks to healing power)

Point is, if he had truly died or failed to heal himself, he would've lost his sense of self. Meanwhile, in the scene, he still had his consciousness keeping him from truly dying.

 

[Delta333]

For the context, a big ass rock fell on his head and he was at death's door for a few moments (but was able to come back to reality thanks to healing power)

Point is, if he had truly died or failed to heal himself, he would've lost his sense of self. Meanwhile, in the scene, he still had his consciousness keeping him from truly dying.

I mean doesn't the scan say that he already had no sense of self as opposed to just almost losing it? Although even being almost is still hilarious since it implies that the falling of a bigger rock would seriously damage on the Yogiri's level.

 

[SweetDao]

I mean doesn't the scan say that he already had no sense of self as opposed to just almost losing it?

No, the scans say that he had "no sense of self beside his own consciousness", it means that everything else that makes his existence, beside his consciousness, weren't there anymore. Which, I mean, is logical, he was in a "dream-like" state.

Although even being almost is still hilarious since it implies that the falling of a bigger rock would seriously damage on the Yogiri's level.

Not really.

What I mean is that, obviously, if I kill you in body, mind and whatever your existence is made off, obviously your sense of self will crumble away. That's not my doing, however, it's merely how a concept linked to the physical/metaphysical component of reality should work. I think that's what CM type 3 is for? idk. Basically, if nothing remains, you can't have a "sense of self" anymore, since you're not there anymore.

What Yogiri is doing is not "destroying the parts to kill the origin" it's "destroying the origin while letting the parts alone". Exceptions exist, of course, like when he kills the arm of someone, he obviously doesn't kill the sense of self of the person, but merely the "existence" of that arm.

 

[Delta333]

No, the scans say that he had "no sense of self beside his own consciousness", it means that everything else that makes his existence, beside his consciousness, weren't there anymore. Which, I mean, is logical, he was in a "dream-like" state.

Not really.

What I mean is that, obviously, if I kill you in body, mind and whatever your existence is made off, obviously your sense of self will crumble away. That's not my doing, however, it's merely how a concept linked to the physical/metaphysical component of reality should work. I think that's what CM type 3 is for? idk. Basically, if nothing remains, you can't have a "sense of self" anymore, since you're not there anymore.

What Yogiri is doing is not "destroying the parts to kill the origin" it's "destroying the origin while letting the parts alone". Exceptions exist, of course, like when he kills the arm of someone, he obviously doesn't kill the sense of self of the person, but merely the "existence" of that arm.

Yeah being in a "dream-like state" in a way that has no ability to feel or see anything seems like perception manipulation to me, it's the most logical way to explain why a normal rock can put a normal person in that state when falls in their head as opposed to damaging them at the conceptual level. That's not something that a normal rock could do, and we know that the same happens when someone gets killed by Yogiri since the darkness is mentioned when UEG is about to be dead as well.

 

[SweetDao]

Yeah being in a "dream-like state" in a way that has no ability to feel or see anything seems like perception manipulation to me, it's the most logical way to explain why a normal rock can put a normal person in that state when falls in their head as opposed to damaging them at the conceptual level. That's not something that a normal rock could do, and we know that the same happens when someone gets killed by Yogiri since the darkness is mentioned when UEG is about to be dead as well.

You didn't understand what I meant.

I'm not saying the rock was doing "conceptual level of damage". I just mean that, if Hanakawa's heart would've completely stopped, his sense of self and consciousness would've disappeared, and he would've been "truly dead". The difference between this and what Yogiri's is doing is that Yogiri remove the existence of something and doesn't allow it to come back.

It's striving to fulfill a human life, and that's everything to it. It neutralizes and eliminates any entity or concept that jeopardises that. Once something is removed, it's deemed unnecessary and won't come back

And yes, the same happen with UEG because it's just what people see "before dying". Like the "you see a flash of your whole life in front of your eyes before dying" thingy.

 

[Delta333]

I just mean that, if Hanakawa's heart would've completely stopped, his sense of self and consciousness would've disappeared, and he would've been "truly dead".

If this happens to everyone death even without Yogiri’s influence then it’s already contradicted to concept imo, like if someone gets killed by a car his concept gets removed too? The difference that you described doesn’t make it conceptual either, just death hax with regeneration negation if he kills someone and they never comeback, the removal of concept is not necessary to do such thing.

 

[SweetDao]

If this happens to everyone death even without Yogiri’s influence then it’s already contradicted to concept imo, like if someone gets killed by a car his concept gets removed too? The difference that you described doesn’t make it conceptual either, just death hax with regeneration negation if he kills someone and they never comeback, the removal of concept is not necessary to do such thing.

I mean, if you kill me, you'll effectively affect/erase my mind while just affecting my body. We wouldn't give you "mind manip" because you killed me, tho. That's the same case that applies here to me.

"Removing" something from the Ultimate Ensemble World seems more prone to affect the most fundamental aspect of a being or an object. The "Existence" of something here would need to be conceptual at least.

In any case, we're already two pages in and for nothing much tbf, in any case, if we need to discuss it, it's better to be on a CRT about his change from Death Manip to EE rather than here.