The Boys (TV Show): Tier Revisions

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Pre-training Queen Maeve is currently "likely 9-A" on her page and the justification is a deleted scene which says that Maeve is the most powerful Supes on the planet with Homelander. Deleted scenes canonicity are questionables, so it should not be used. So 9-A should be deleted from Maeve's page and characters who scale with her.

Post-heart attack A-Train is 9-C for no reason. There is no evidence in the show that A-Train has diminished in physical strength, it is never said or shown. It should have the same strength as its first key.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Bump

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Bump

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Bump

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Bump

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Bump

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Bump

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Bump

 

[57Dev]

Message a Moderator to help with the revision

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Bump

 

[WilliamXJoe]

Agree

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Bump

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Bump

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Bump

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Bump

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Bump

 

[Just_Butchering]

Well, hello there!
First of all, Maeve's statement does come from a deleted scene, but it also has some implicit merits (for example, if Nubian Prince was any more powerful than Maeve, he wouldn't be 'sold' to outsiders). However, those are minor, and we also have Kimiko being implied to survive a blast from Lamplighter.

Therefore, I agree that it should be changed to 'possibly' instead of 'likely'.

BUT, with the release of S4 tomorrow, and the likehood of Sam and Cate affecting the scaling (I have feats for Gen V, just didn't the profile in case anything popped up in The Boys S4), I would suggest to wait and see, before making any changes.

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Well, hello there!
First of all, Maeve's statement does come from a deleted scene, but it also has some implicit merits (for example, if Nubian Prince was any more powerful than Maeve, he wouldn't be 'sold' to outsiders). However, those are minor, and we also have Kimiko being implied to survive a blast from Lamplighter.

Therefore, I agree that it should be changed to 'possibly' instead of 'likely'.

BUT, with the release of S4 tomorrow, and the likehood of Sam and Cate affecting the scaling (I have feats for Gen V, just didn't the profile in case anything popped up in The Boys S4), I would suggest to wait and see, before making any changes.

Ok, but what about A-Train?

 

[Just_Butchering]

Mostly because he seems to have lowered to Deep and Temp-V Hughie's level of strength. With Deep being fodder and Hughie getting one shotted by Annie.

Now, S4's trailer hints to Deep looking stronger, but we should get more context first. So, Post Heart Attack A-Train is better scaled down to Hughie and Deep (who might be upgrade depending on this season), BUT I could see some arguments for A-Train being the same in physicals (personally, I don't agree with it since this means Hughie and Deep are Annie/Kimiko level, but I'm open to hear)

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Mostly because he seems to have lowered to Deep and Temp-V Hughie's level of strength. With Deep being fodder and Hughie getting one shotted by Annie.

Now, S4's trailer hints to Deep looking stronger, but we should get more context first. So, Post Heart Attack A-Train is better scaled down to Hughie and Deep (who might be upgrade depending on this season), BUT I could see some arguments for A-Train being the same in physicals (personally, I don't agree with it since this means Hughie and Deep are Annie/Kimiko level, but I'm open to hear)

It just means that The Deep and Hughie downscale to Annie and Kimiko. It's better to do this than to diminish the strength of A-Train without evidences.

 

[Just_Butchering]

It just means that The Deep and Hughie downscale to Annie and Kimiko. It's better to do this than to diminish the strength of A-Train without evidences.

I mean, the scaling is still weird. Going with A-Train's durability scaling from his AP (He can floor Annie right before having a heart attack, and can hurt kimiko), having Deep one shot him (granted, A-Train was off guard and has worse stamina) feels iffy, also his tackle didnt even damaged the wall that much (and the trailer has him dealing not much damage to a pillar), whereas Annie, Kimiko and the like can break those objects. As for Hughie, he got one shotted by Annie (You could say he held back, but with that logic clearly Annie wasn't going all out either).

All in all, while I'm 100% against it, it should be looked more cautiously. Logically A-Train shouldn't be less durable, but maybe the writers forgot that went making him weaker? And if he is the same, just worse stamina, how does Hughie and Deep measure with the others?

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

having Deep one shot him (granted, A-Train was off guard and has worse stamina) feels iffy

A-Train just suffered from The Deep's tackle, and the latter was also on the ground suffering, so both are comparable.
It is also important to mention that Deep only dared to provoke A-Train because the latter could not use his speed, which implies that Deep fears A-Train's speed, not his physical strength. In season 1 The Deep also feared Starlight because of her light/energy manipulation, not her physical strength. The Deep should scale to the AP of A-Train and Starlight.

also his tackle didnt even damaged the wall that much (and the trailer has him dealing not much damage to a pillar), whereas Annie, Kimiko and the like can break those objects.

Homelander, Soldier Boy and Butcher destroyed no walls during their fight at Herogasm, but that doesn't mean they're weaker than Starlight or The Deep. The Deep and A-Train who don't destroy the wall after the tackle is just an anti-feat

As for Hughie, he got one shotted by Annie (You could say he held back, but with that logic clearly Annie wasn't going all out either).

Hughie was just pushed back, he wasn't knocked out. Black Noir was also pushed back by Starlight's light in season 2, but that doesn't mean Starlight is physically superior to Black Noir. Starlight's light/energy is just higher than her physical strength.
Starlight, Kimiko, Deep, A-Train, V Hughie, Black Noir, Stormfront and Pre-Training Maeve are all close in physical strength

 

[ShionAH]

With Deep being fodder

SHUT UP. HE IS THE PEAK. U ARE A CAPYBARNIA. A RODENT FROM SOUTH AFRICA

 

[Just_Butchering]

A-Train just suffered from The Deep's tackle, and the latter was also on the ground suffering, so both are comparable

Deep was floored also because he got hit ok his sensitive gills, and recovered faster than A-Train. Though yeah, that mostly an stamina thing.

Hughie was just pushed back, he wasn't knocked out.

He was shown with discomfort and trying to catch his breath, and he also took time to arrive at Herogasm. In fact, despite teleporting, even Annie arrived before Hughie. So what was he doing? It could that he was waiting for Annie to get out of the mansion, but even then he took a while. It's likely he just stayed down recovering.
Again, one could also argue that's his not-so-good stamina and low pain tolerance, but still.
Also the Noir example isn't great since Noir quickly got up, even though Annie was desperate.

However, I'll say that is not entirely impossible for them to downscale (At most X rating), and it's more logical for A-Train to remain the same durability, just with worse stamina (which could help explain him staying down for longer than Deep with a more 'hurt' expression). As for the Hughie stuff, maybe they just wanted Annie to defeat him in a comical manner? Ironic considering he then pushes back Homelander, but maybe it was just that?

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Deep was floored also because he got hit ok his sensitive gills, and recovered faster than A-Train. Though yeah, that mostly an stamina thing.

The Deep still scale (and not just downscale) A Train and Starlight for the reasons I gave in my previous comment.

He was shown with discomfort and trying to catch his breath, and he also took time to arrive at Herogasm. In fact, despite teleporting, even Annie arrived before Hughie. So what was he doing? It could that he was waiting for Annie to get out of the mansion, but even then he took a while. It's likely he just stayed down recovering.

This is just speculation, there could be plenty of reasons why Hughie arrived after Annie

Also the Noir example isn't great since Noir quickly got up, even though Annie was desperate.

We didn't see Hughie quickly get up because we cut to another scene as soon as Hughie hit the ground

However, I'll say that is not entirely impossible for them to downscale (At most X rating), and it's more logical for A-Train to remain the same durability, just with worse stamina (which could help explain him staying down for longer than Deep with a more 'hurt' expression

I think The Deep scales entirely to A Train and Starlight, and there's nothing that contradicts this scaling.

 

[Just_Butchering]

This is just speculation, there could be plenty of reasons why Hughie arrived after Annie

Assuming he got up quickly is also speculation though.

We didn't see Hughie quickly get up because we cut to another scene as soon as Hughie hit the ground

Yeah, but from a directing standpoint, if you have an scene of someone falling down, on the floor, breathing heavily trying to recover, then cut that scene for the character to show a while after, I dont think they're saying "he quickly got up" but rather "he stayed down for a while".

Again, speculation, but so is assuming he took it like a champ and got up quickly. Neither is shown, though assuming he stayed down is more likely. Also, Annie downed him in one attack and then changed the scene, clearly the writers/director meant it for it to be "he got one-shot".

However, one could just assume it was for comedic value and not that he actually that much weaker than her.

Like, in other episode he can take Soldier Boy's hits pretty well (granted, held back, but still). So they probably just thought it was funny for him to be defeated by Annie without much thought into powerscaling.

 

[Just_Butchering]

(Simplicity, let's assume the supe cast at 9-A)
So 9-A for Deep, and Likely (downscale) 9-A for Hughie? Hughie for hurting A-Train with a punch, but still somewhat inferior to the main cast. Deep at 9-A for hurting A-Train with a tackle? (And we'll see how the fight with Annie goes in S4)

 

[Ser_Hakim_Dayne]

Deep at 9-A for hurting A-Train with a tackle? (And we'll see how the fight with Annie goes in S4)

And especially because The Deep is not afraid of Starlight's and A-Train physical strength, but just of their respective powers.

 

[Deidalius]

I agree with OP

 

[Just_Butchering]

And especially because The Deep is not afraid of Starlight's and A-Train physical strength, but just of their respective powers.

Adding to that, I think that Deep just lacks courage in general. S4 is showing that, with how he gain an spine and stood up to Ashley (you know, a normal human).
When he has any sort of way of holding power, Deep isn't scare. So, as you said, he was scare of Annie's op light powers and Atrain's far superior speed. But without those involve, he is willing to fight them.