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The Boys discussion thread

Too many messages to read now lol
First of all, I still would give the ending a 8/10, rushed but still had really good scenes and moments.

Second, so, how do we handle the scaling from the final fight?

Butcher was shown prior as Kimiko's level (in ep4 and then in ep6 he only did marginally better than her against Bombsight, and on that note, he did lost to Bombsight lmao), yet he is Homelander level now?

Ryan I can see it. And whike Kimiko didn't fight, she did withstood multiple shots of heat vision that 100% was with the intent to kill her, and I think reactive evolution coild explain her power increase.
 
Just_Butchering said:
Too many messages to read now lol
First of all, I still would give the ending a 8/10, rushed but still had really good scenes and moments.

Second, so, how do we handle the scaling from the final fight?

Butcher was shown prior as Kimiko's level (in ep4 and then in ep6 he only did marginally better than her against Bombsight, and on that note, he did lost to Bombsight lmao), yet he is Homelander level now?

Ryan I can see it. And whike Kimiko didn't fight, she did withstood multiple shots of heat vision that 100% was with the intent to kill her, and I think reactive evolution coild explain her power increase.
Click to expand...
Butcher scales to Homelander only in the final episode bc he definitely didn't before (for some reason)

Finale Kimiko scales to the big bads in durability apparently

Ryan being 8-B is fine ig
 
Omegas03 said:
Butcher scales to Homelander only in the final episode bc he definitely didn't before (for some reason)
Click to expand...
So either we find a justification or is just an outlier lmao
Omegas03 said:
Finale Kimiko scales to the big bads in durability apparently
Click to expand...
Gen V's reactive evolution can justify Kimiko's power up (and her ap should scale to her durability)
Omegas03 said:
Ryan being 8-B is fine ig
Click to expand...
Yeah, he would already (somewhat) scale from ep3, so this makes sense
 
GunshyFever said:
Considering the thematic scale around that fight there is no way it can be an outlier. Best to base scaling around it.
Click to expand...
Butcher is no where near Homelander level before this fight. In EP4, while they were both bloodlusted (or at least not holding back) while he defeated Kimiko, she could put up a fight against him. And in EP6, he got clapped by Bombsight, who is comparable but inferior to Homelander.

I don't want to take it as an outlier either, but there's no justification for his jump in power.

I mean, we can give him a key for the finale, but still no way to explain his power boost.
 
NGL guys, Homelander might just... actually be fast?

In the finale he takes a guy to space and then is back pretty much instantly. Its about 2 seconds total.

If you assume he went to the mesophere (middle of Earth's atmosphere), its around Mach 150.

If you assume he went to the thermosphere, its around Mach 200.

And if you assume he went to the exosphere (where you would typically say 'space' begins), it could get all the way to Mach 1000 or slightly higher than that.

And then, in the SAME episode, Butcher/Ryan are reacting to Homelander trying to fly out of the oval office. And catching him while he is mid-flight.

I mean, if you want to say the verse is slow, be my guest, I don't particularly care for the boys powerscaling...

But they DO have the potential to scale that high. They DO have feats like this happening relatively often.
 
Phoenks said:
NGL guys, Homelander might just... actually be fast?

In the finale he takes a guy to space and then is back pretty much instantly. Its about 2 seconds total.

If you assume he went to the mesophere (middle of Earth's atmosphere), its around Mach 150.

If you assume he went to the thermosphere, its around Mach 200.

And if you assume he went to the exosphere (where you would typically say 'space' begins), it could get all the way to Mach 1000 or slightly higher than that.

And then, in the SAME episode, Butcher/Ryan are reacting to Homelander trying to fly out of the oval office. And catching him while he is mid-flight.

I mean, if you want to say the verse is slow, be my guest, I don't particularly care for the boys powerscaling...

But they DO have the potential to scale that high. They DO have feats like this happening relatively often.
Click to expand...
Meet potential MHS ver--

Just kidding, the feat is highly inconsistent with the verse, we have an OVERWHELMING majority of Supersonic feats, and transonic statements. To the point where the narrative quite literally breaks if it was MHS, outlier.
 
NikHelton said:
No, Kripke is simply a talentless idiot who's been making jokes about farts, asses, shit, and memes for the past few seasons.
He has absolutely no idea when jokes are appropriate and when they're not.

Not to mention that he ruined one of the greatest antagonists in media, turning him from a terrifying, manipulative psychopath into a cartoonish jerk who was humiliated by every character he encountered in Season 5. Instead of a bold satire of superhero satire, we got a toothless attempt to ridicule a certain segment of society and one specific individual.
Click to expand...
Preach
 
Phoenks said:
But they DO have the potential to scale that high. They DO have feats like this happening relatively often.
Click to expand...
I agree that they seem to be aiming for him being extremely fast to that degree.

The antifeats seem then like just their inability to be consistent in that portrayal when it's actually on screen.

In general I get the impression that their budget and Homelander's intended strength never aligned.
 
Just_Butchering said:
Butcher is no where near Homelander level before this fight. In EP4, while they were both bloodlusted (or at least not holding back) while he defeated Kimiko, she could put up a fight against him. And in EP6, he got clapped by Bombsight, who is comparable but inferior to Homelander.

I don't want to take it as an outlier either, but there's no justification for his jump in power.

I mean, we can give him a key for the finale, but still no way to explain his power boost.
Click to expand...
Maybe, and just maybe, we could say reactive evolution trigger by the desperation of Homelander potentially escaping and losing his chance? It's kinda headcanon and pretty reachy, but it's something lmao.
Phoenks said:
And then, in the SAME episode, Butcher/Ryan are reacting to Homelander trying to fly out of the oval office. And catching him while he is mid-flight.
Click to expand...
Also the only moment Homelander's flight isn't a blur. Even Soldier Boy got blitzed by the flight speed. And Bombsight also blitzed Butcher.
 
FinePoint said:
I agree that they seem to be aiming for him being extremely fast to that degree.

The antifeats seem then like just their inability to be consistent in that portrayal when it's actually on screen.

In general I get the impression that their budget and Homelander's intended strength never aligned.
Click to expand...
The funniest comment I read on the topic was "Toretto does more destruction than Homelander in a fight"
 
57Dev said:
Potential....
Click to expand...
Marie essentially lol!

A reminder there's a stronger and more versatile Victoria Neuman just chilling in Canada with a sister that can see the future and a friend that can read, trap and break minds.

They really couldn't balance the story around the P&A of Gen V, so two cheap throw away lines about Marie's powers being grossly exaggerated and still not having control over them before getting lazily written out it is then (and again "budgeting and scheduling issues").

Yeah I feel like some of the growing discourse about The Boys and how the show handled representation in the end is entirely deserved.
 
Ethnikistis said:
Cant we consider the performance against Bombsight as an outlier or PIS?
Click to expand...
Clearly PIS in order to give Soldier Boy and Bombsight screentime. Also for some reason, Butcher just forgets he has 8 tentacles and just uses two ever after ep1.

NGL Shinchi Izumi vs Butcher would go hard.
 
57Dev said:
Average Bollywood fights have more destruction than "scorched earf".

Normal ass humans btw
Click to expand...

Am I the only one who enjoyed the fight 😭😭
It was short,but yeah obv,they had the anti-Homelander weapon with them.Idrc that they didn't bring down buildings and shit,since idc about Homie upscales,and most TB fights are similar (room level).
 
57Dev said:
Clearly PIS in order to give Soldier Boy and Bombsight screentime. Also for some reason, Butcher just forgets he has 8 tentacles and just uses two ever after ep1.

NGL Shinchi Izumi vs Butcher would go hard.
Click to expand...
Maybe he is just cautious, because getting them damaged might also hurt him too.
 
Where did yall get the impression that Butcher losing to Bombsight is PIS

Actually, we are shown that Bombsight is comparable to Soldier Boy and like more durable to the point Soldier Boy was hurting his hand when punching him lol

Butcher was consistently shown as weaker than top tiers until the final fight and actively avoiding 1v1s
 
Omegas03 said:
Where did yall get the impression that Butcher losing to Bombsight is PIS

Actually, we are shown that Bombsight is comparable to Soldier Boy and like more durable to the point Soldier Boy was hurting his hand when punching him lol

Butcher was consistently shown as weaker than top tiers until the final fight and actively avoiding 1v1s
Click to expand...
He one shot a big threat in s4.
And he just ducked fights with the top 1 and 2 of the verse.

Idk why he shouldn't be stronger than Bombsight.
 
They could have just given Butcher high dosage of radiation saying that his cancer feeds on it and made him fight Homelander in a extreme diff fight with Ryan, Marie, Sam, Kimiko and the military.

Kimiko blasting and depowering him as cathartic as it was, still just feels like we would could have done this in season 3 far better.

You can still have Homelander begging after being brutally beaten and his bones broken.

The Kimiko stuff just comes out of nowhere in the semi finale, makes V1 pointless and just doesn't work because Homelander can fly away any time (the only reason he isn't able to is plot armor.)
 
FinePoint said:
In general I get the impression that their budget and Homelander's intended strength never aligned.
Click to expand...
I dislike the budget argument. Marvel and DC with similar budgets are capable of showing greater scope far more consistently than Amazon ever did. If they wanted to make Homelander fast they've had that ability since the early 2000s.
 
57Dev said:
They could have just given Butcher high dosage of radiation saying that his cancer feeds on it and made him fight Homelander in a extreme diff fight with Ryan, Marie, Sam, Kimiko and the military.

Kimiko blasting and depowering him as cathartic as it was, still just feels like we would could have done this in season 3 far better.

You can still have Homelander begging after being brutally beaten and his bones broken.

The Kimiko stuff just comes out of nowhere in the semi finale, makes V1 pointless and just doesn't work because Homelander can fly away any time (the only reason he isn't able to is plot armor.)
Click to expand...
i feel like they had a different script originally for this season but for some reason last minute they had to change it with another.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
I dislike the budget argument. Marvel and DC with similar budgets are capable of showing greater scope far more consistently than Amazon ever did. If they wanted to make Homelander fast they've had that ability since the early 2000s.
Click to expand...
CGI had a decline in quality due of restriction from directors or movie studio to save money, i feel Amazon is really inclined to give so little budget for animation and so little time are a factor in this.
 
If I had to pace it.

- Epsiode 6 Homelander get's V1, calls immediate press conference and announces himself god.

- Epsiode 7 Actual consquesnces and destruction at the hand of Homelander. The world fully turns against him. And in turn he wages war against the world with other Supes. Here you can have the start of the final fight with the boys invading the white house, Billy walking through the yard while other sneak in. Respective match ups.


- Epsiode 8 Get the other stuff done first in epsiode 7, now this epsiode is Homelander vs everything they can throw at him. Chipping at him bit by bit. He dies. Then Butcher's ending.
 
57Dev said:
If I had to pace it.

- Epsiode 6 Homelander get's V1, calls immediate press conference and announces himself god.

- Epsiode 7 Actual consquesnces and destruction at the hand of Homelander. The world fully turns against him. And in turn he wages war against the world with other Supes. Here you can have the start of the final fight with the boys invading the white house, Billy walking through the yard while other sneak in. Respective match ups.


- Epsiode 8 Get the other stuff done first in epsiode 7, now this epsiode is Homelander vs everything they can throw at him. Chipping at him bit by bit. He dies. Then Butcher's ending.
Click to expand...
agreed altho i feel like butcher should have his own ep, considering the aftermat of the homelander death in the comics was really intresting to me
 
LandonTheGuy said:
CGI had a decline in quality due of restriction from directors or movie studio to save money, i feel Amazon is really inclined to give so little budget for animation and so little time are a factor in this.
Click to expand...
It's more like poor budget choices in my view than just not enough money. Superman and Lois had a budget of 5 million per episode, Flash/Supergirl had something like 3 million an episode, Smallville had a budget of like 4.5 million an episode and they all do more with their characters than the Boy's 12 Million an episode budget.

Like the MCU does spend more per episode sure, but Amazon wasn't cheaping out on The Boys either.

I guess there is an acceptable quality limit with the Biys unlike the Flash, but still you'd think we'd get more S&L or Titans-esq scenes.
 
CGI has a decline in quality because directors without a clear vision or know how started using it.

There are three types of directors when. You got your Del Toro or Cameron. These guys have worked in post production, they know how it works and they streamline their production accordingly. That why pacific rim so absurdly good.

Then you have your average director. They know enough to keep it working and give the vfx team time and direction.

Then you have your Andy Muskety (pretty sure I misspelled it) aka "fix it in post". They overwork the cgi/vfx teams, they constantly change shots with no clear vision. Then you get atorcties like The Flash (saw that shit in theaters, I still want my money back)

The boys doesn't have a budget or time problem. It has a ambition problem. They are more focused on their next asshole, balls or gore sets/props. The cgi and vfx goes to the heads exploding or the long peni5 or mace testies. There is no vision for the action to be wide scale.
 
Ethnikistis said:
Cant we consider the performance against Bombsight as an outlier or PIS?
Click to expand...
Ethnikistis said:
Maybe he is just cautious, because getting them damaged might also hurt him too.
Click to expand...
I mean, if anything Butcher v Homelander is an outlier
Ethnikistis said:
He one shot a big threat in s4.
Click to expand...
Neuman best feat is just upscaling from Starlight
Ethnikistis said:
And he just ducked fights with the top 1 and 2 of the verse.
Click to expand...
And also struggled to defeat Kimiko in Ep4

Butcher is just more consistent with that level of power. Him avoiding the 1v1s vs Homelander and Soldier Boy while losing to Bombsight proves this.
 
Qawsedf234 said:
It's more like poor budget choices in my view than just not enough money. Superman and Lois had a budget of 5 million per episode, Flash/Supergirl had something like 3 million an episode, Smallville had a budget of like 4.5 million an episode and they all do more with their characters than the Boy's 12 Million an episode budget.

Like the MCU does spend more per episode sure, but Amazon wasn't cheaping out on The Boys either.

I guess there is an acceptable quality limit with the Biys unlike the Flash, but still you'd think we'd get more S&L or Titans-esq scenes.
Click to expand...
Yes but you really have to ask where money goes to, for example, Invincible has a really rich cast of famus actors, so i always assumed that the money went to the vc more than the animation.
 
its not a budget problem, its what the showrunners decide to focus on— just like how kirkman doesnt respect animation, kripke doesnt respect the whole superhero genre, which inherently comes packaged with fight scenes on a higher scale than your regular action show.

i do not think the “neutron bomb” statement or any statement of these characters are meant to be hyperbole, i think they ARE supposed to be that strong, but its hard to translate that amount of power into a live action show to begin with (especially compared to an animated show), and even harder when you have a showrunner who cares more about “muh anus” and politislop more than anything else
 
E1iminxtion said:
its not a budget problem, its what the showrunners decide to focus on— just like how kirkman doesnt respect animation, kripke doesnt respect the whole superhero genre, which inherently comes packaged with fight scenes on a higher scale than your regular action show.

i do not think the “neutron bomb” statement or any statement of these characters are meant to be hyperbole, i think they ARE supposed to be that strong, but its hard to translate that amount of power into a live action show to begin with (especially compared to an animated show), and even harder when you have a showrunner who cares more about “muh anus” and politislop more than anything else
Click to expand...

I agree that they’re probably actually intended to be that strong. There’s too many statements saying they are. They just never show it. The literal closest is the factory explosion Homelander survives in the Boys: Diabolical
 
I just remembered there was a whole Death Battle advertisement of The Boys 5 years ago.


I think it makes the statements and feats not align even worse since I'm pretty sure Death Battle use the whole manmade weaponry statement for Homelander and whatnot.

Yeah, I like Kripke, but I blame him for the seeming dissonance the show has between feats and statements.
 
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