The Boxer - Venerating the Idol (Yu rework)

[azontr]

Ello. I have heavily improved upon and reworked the profile of Yu from the webtoon The Boxer. Took me a wee bit, but it's finally complete.

I obviously just posted the old profile in the previous sentence, so here's the new one. As you can or cannot see, it is much bigger, outfitted with more scans, justifications and references, and is just all-around superior. Apparently, it's a rule that I have to list what I've changed, but I'm not going to do that, because I do not want to.

All that is really necessary is for the profile to be looked over, I guess.

Agree - @Arceus0x, @Phoenks, @Youngwolf-0.1, @SeijiSetto, @Kachon123, @Shmooply, @Dark_Soul20189, @Vietthai96, @Nierre
r
Disagree -

Neutral(lame) -

 

[Arceus0x]

 

[Phoenks]

It's beautiful

 

[azontr]

bump or bust

 

[Youngwolf-0.1]

Yea, looks good to me

 

[azontr]

BUMP

 

[First_Witch]

No

 

[azontr]

 

[SeijiSetto]

the new profile looks ASS send that shit back to the drawing board IMMEDIATELY

unironically though it's very very good, good work
only thing i would ask is if it would be reasonable to give Yu average human LS rather than just unknown for his first key
i get he's scrawny but in his stamina justification Jay says he's pretty good at sports so i think that's enough to at least assume the literal baseline

 

[azontr]

That is mostly because of his crazy skill shi, he's noted later in the story to just be supernaturally good at sports due to it, but even so yeah he still shouldn't be that far below an average human, so I'll change it

 

[azontr]

Bump

 

[azontr]

Bump

 

[azontr]

Bump

 

[azontr]

Bump

 

[Kachon123]

Looks good
gonna make some Hajime no Ippo matches once I make my revisions

 

[azontr]

Raw

 

[azontr]

Bump

 

[Viott]

In the profile, this calculation should be used instead of that calculation.

 

[azontr]

That calculation is the one that's on the verse page, so I'm using it.

 

[Viott]

That calculation is the one that's on the verse page, so I'm using it.

This is the calculation on the verse page.

 

[azontr]

I know. Which is why i used that calculation.

 

[Viott]

I know. Which is why i used that calculation.

I just noticed that the calculation is used in the profile. Lol

By the way, I agree.

 

[azontr]

Bump

 

[Shmooply]

Awesome!!!!!!
Looks good.

 

[Dinozxd]

While I think that some of the justifications for the abilities are kinda wanky (the abilites or stats theirself aren't wank, just the wording), I like the profile overall, but I have problems/questions regarding some of the abilities.

Spoiler: yap

• Perception Manipulation (Yu's perception of time has been heavily skewed, allowing him to easily dodge attacks that would normally be impossible to avoid with the precision and grace of someone who'd already seen it coming.This creates a world where every moment of time feels sharp and clear, to the point that the world can come to a complete standstill from his perspective

I fail to see what exactly comes to a standstill in the bolded part.

His development goes beyond just his technical ability however, allowing him to quickly adapt to attacks that can massively out-pace him despite having an extreme advantage in speed prior.

The bolded parts kinda contradict each other. As far as I can see from the scans, Yu's way of dealing with attacks that massively outpace him is using his battle iq (which would partially be his technical ability) and lure his opponent to attack specific places on his body to be able to dodge them.

Now on to the ability The Boxer supporters love the most.

Jean Pierre, a Boxer whose technical ability is close to flawless, with an awareness of not only his weight distribution, coordination,

I think you linked the wrong scan here.

but but also the movement of muscles and ligaments, along with the beating of one's heart, flow of blood, and even the movement of electrical signals through the nervous system, isn't even in the same dimension of prowess as Yu.

I think the "isn't even in the same dimension as Yu" statement lacks context to be applicable to Body Control. I'm assuming the "perfection" in question is technical ability, so he just says "Yu's technique isn't even in the same dimension as mine" which would just be a skill feat imo

Even geniuses on the lower rung of the ladder such as Siha Lee can efficiently "download" information on their opponent to easily predict every move they could possibly make in a match, and Yu's transcendental cognition provides not only an ability far beyond Siha's, but also the unrestricted control of every facet of one's body)

How does this mean "Yu's anpr>Siha's anpr", exactlly? The scan used in the bolded part doesn't even have anything to do with Siha nor his anpr...

Also, Siha's ability sounds more like Info Analysis than anpr tbh as in theory, he wouldn't be able to read his opponent's attacks if his opponent decides to use a different fighting style or attack in the second round. That's not anpr.

Why is there no scan where Yu actually performs the anpr feat himself and not scale from others bruh. I thought anpr had to be scaled by feats, not scaling. Ngl, the only thing that should qualify Yu for anpr is this:

Even the weakest of pro Boxers has a degree of predictive ability that allows them to dodge attacks they'd normally be unable to, and Yu is far beyond that level.

Anyways, moving on.

Limited Durability Negation (A genius' punches can pierce through and cause damage through a solid guard, and Yu's blows can easily pierce through the guard of a much more skilled opponent. His blows literally "drill" through his opponent's body.)

Dealing damage through guards isn't dura neg. Like, blocking doesn't make you unable to take damage or something.

Damage Reduction (As he is far beyond Jean Pierre's level of skill, he should be able to turn his body at the last moment before impact to reduce the damage.)

He doesn't even use the ability himself... Get this outta here or give it a "Possibly" rating, at least.

Aura (Fear-Inducing - Simply looking into Yu's eyes was enough to inspire fear in K, a battle-hardened war veteran who'd killed dozens of people. His presence can drive the fear of death into an opponent, his blows inspiring an even greater sensation of fear that can stun one for multiple seconds at a time)

I fail to see any "aura" nor supernatural elements here. It's just Social Influecing with some over the top wording.

Resistence to;

• Analytical Prediction (More skilled than boxers such as Jean, Ryu and Siha)

What I said above.

 

[azontr]

1. The TV drawing is a representation of Yu saying that the world comes to a standstill for him. The TV is a reflection of him, as it's one of his only views into the outside world from the basement.

2. That was what happened initially. But afterwards, he became able to simply outspeed Aaron without needing to utilize technique. That's what "adaptation" means.

3. I did. Will fix later, at work rn.

4. There are a few reasons for this. For one, Yu having superhuman cognition and awareness would inherently place him below characters with "human" cognition. That's just basic reasoning—his brain operates at a superhuman level, Siha's operates below that. The second reason is via "genius scaling", smth accepted a while back which basically establishes a hierarchy of geniuses based on their "flow." Yu stands at the top of that hierarchy. Analytical prediction can be gained from scaling, and that's how it has always worked.

5. It's info analysis that allows for analytical prediction. The gathering of physical data is what allows for Siha to anticipate moves in advance. Just because it's not a limitless ability doesn't mean it's NOT analytical prediction. To begin with, when faced with unpredictable scenarios, Siha quickly adapted to that and just began to predict anyways. Objectively, this is analytical prediction, and your argument is somewhat disingenuous.

6. That's why it's limited durability negation, not durability negation.

7. No, it's not. To socially influence somebody, you have to speak to them, manipulate them, or do anything to change the state of their psyche. Yu is not doing this. His very presence inspires fear. That is simply an aura.

8. You're wrong, so i don't feel a need to address that.

 

[Dinozxd]

1. The TV drawing is a representation of Yu saying that the world comes to a standstill for him. The TV is a reflection of him, as it's one of his only views into the outside world from the basement.

Does it have to do with his Perception being fast?

2. That was what happened initially. But afterwards, he became able to simply outspeed Aaron without needing to utilize technique. That's what "adaptation" means.

Oh. I saw the scan you're talking about now. Mb

4. There are a few reasons for this. For one, Yu having superhuman cognition and awareness would inherently place him below characters with "human" cognition. That's just basic reasoning—his brain operates at a superhuman level, Siha's operates below that.

It's more so about how Yu uses his superhuman cognition in terms of anpr. Going off of the profile, he never replicates Siha's anpr feat, nor any anpr feat in general. How do we know his superhuman cognition gives him a better anpr?

The second reason is via "genius scaling", smth accepted a while back which basically establishes a hierarchy of geniuses based on their "flow." Yu stands at the top of that hierarchy.

Eh. The reasoning in the thread's kinda iffy, but I don't wanna mess around with previously accepted threads or scalings. It's fine.

Analytical prediction can be gained from scaling, and that's how it has always worked.

Can you give me some examples about this btw? Like verses that have precog/anpr scaling.

5. It's info analysis that allows for analytical prediction. The gathering of physical data is what allows for Siha to anticipate moves in advance. Just because it's not a limitless ability doesn't mean it's NOT analytical prediction.

He still needs prior analysis to predict the attacks though. That's too big of a weakness for the ability to qualify as a full anpr.

Siha quickly adapted to that and just began to predict anyways

Idk the context behind the scan btw

6. That's why it's limited durability negation, not durability negation.

It should still negate some durability to qualify as limited dura neg though. Punching through guards doesn't negate any durability of the opponent whatsoever.

7. No, it's not. To socially influence somebody, you have to speak to them, manipulate them, or do anything to change the state of their psyche.

Instigating Fear: Characters who can in some way or the other, instigate fear and affect the thinking or confidence of another person in their verse. The ways the characters use may include usage of position or a reputation in their verse, having an appearance or a certain feature in their appearance which other characters in the verse perceive as creepy or scary and easily scared by it or driving other characters into situations where they are set to feel fear, etc. This differs from fear manipulation, as this doesn't involve any supernatural factor and is escapable through simple willpower or confidence.

Having a creepy appearence is enough.

Yu is not doing this. His very presence inspires fear. That is simply an aura.

That is just wrong. It doesn't mention anywhere in the scan that the fear is caused by his presence. At best we have this where the coach guy states that Yu's eyes scared him, so it's not weird to assume that Yu's eyes/gaze is what actually induces fear here. It fits the other scan well as well since the guy stares Yu down at the start of the match.

 

[Dark_Soul20189]

From an overview of the profile, everything looks fine.

 

[azontr]

Does it have to do with his Perception being fast?

Yes. It's stated his potential bloomed around this age, as evident by how he developed enhanced senses as a child.

It's more so about how Yu uses his superhuman cognition in terms of anpr. Going off of the profile, he never replicates Siha's anpr feat, nor

Cognitive skill/cognitive ability inherently encapsulates one's ability to reason, predict, and process information. Siha processes information like a computer and utilizes this to predict moves—an extension of his inherent cognitive potential he had from birth. Yu having superior cognition, especially in the context of the Boxer and its genius scaling, would justify this type of scaling.

For some reason the forum isn't letting me quote your second message so I'll just respond to it here: check out this verse. It utilizes this type of skill scaling a lot.

Same thing is happening so next response: that's not how it works. To begin with, to predict through analysis, you need variables to consider which can initiate a prediction. This is how all types of analytical prediction function—whether it's through analyzing muscles, blood flow, heartbeats, etc, to analytically make a prediction, you need to analyze. Both information analysis and analytical prediction both literally have the word "analysis," so this should be obvious.

Context: you can read chapter 110 of the Boxer, but to explain it, basically Siha's opponent was able to move beyond his predictions and land some hits on Siha. However, not too long afterwards, Siha adapted his predictions and then began effortlessly countering his opponent's moves again.

Dura neg: a guard is meant to block an opponent's attacks by stopping the energy of it from getting through. If an attack "pierces" or "drills" through the guard, that means the energy is passing through the guard. It's not actually dura neg, yes, but it is a pseudo-form of it that allows one to circumvent a conventional guard. This ability even culminates in the greater dura neg Yu develops in his heavyweight key.

Social influencing: if it was an issue of having a creepy appearance, then everyone would be constantly terrified of Yu just by looking at him. But it's never stated or mentioned to be a matter of him looking weird. It's a sense of danger that he emits—not a matter of him looking weird, or saying or doing scary things. You say that the scan doesn't mention his presence, but it doesn't NEED to, because Yu is, in fact, present in the ring. Why would the story spell out that its his presence when you can easily infer that's what's happening by the fact that him just standing there is making a man see a giant gun loom over his head?

 

[Zefra3011]

I think you might add more in the profile:

Enhanced Vision:

• Kinetic Vision: Yu should upscale this (c29), and K seeing shot bullets (c in the scans) + slow motion implies KV.
• Telescopic Vision & Microscopic Vision (maybe?): Yu should upscale K being able to perfectly see and read Yu's eyes from far away (c2), and Bob, who saw Aaron's shoulder twitching, and their exchange of attacks, from far away (c85).

Enhanced Hearing:
You can add that Yu is also able to keep counting his heartbeat while having conversations (c97).
Enhanced Touch:
Upscales Jean (c28)

Reactive Evolution: (Maybe Limited)
Yu keeps adapting his technique when he faces a new adversity. When he couldn't hit Jean due to his slow-motion, Yu developed a technique that allowed him to blitz Jean(c29), further improving it once Jean thought of a tactic to counter it(c30). Kept improving it as the story goes, to counter Takeda (c48), who was not leaving Yu any space to use it (c47), to counter Fabrizio's strategy and reach (c61), and thirdly to counter Aaron, removing the need for space between him and the opponent, and to dash forward, even increasing the punches he throws(c81). + Yu counters Viktor's luck by remembering a technique, and Aaron punching with techniques by redirecting his attacks.

Information Analysis:
Yu is capable of judging the strength of attacks just by looking at them. He showed it by recognizing K's punch would have killed him(c2), while, just before, he couldn't be bothered to dodge worthless punches(c2), and even understood the danger of Aaron while using techniques(c85). Anticipated Fabrizio's strategy (c61).

 

[azontr]

Kinetic Vision: Yu should upscale this (c29), and K seeing shot bullets (c in the scans) + slow motion implies KV.

This is less kinetic vision and more so a reaction/perception feat, I'm tempted to have an upgrade but I won't deal with that.

Telescopic Vision & Microscopic Vision (maybe?): Yu should upscale K being able to perfectly see and read Yu's eyes from far away (c2), and Bob, who saw Aaron's shoulder twitching, and their exchange of attacks, from far away (c85).

They weren't really that far away, don't think this qualifies as much.

Enhanced Hearing:
You can add that Yu is also able to keep counting his heartbeat while having conversations (c97).
Enhanced Touch:
Upscales Jean (c28)

Enhanced touch works and I'll add it later. the hearing justification isn't really necessary tho, just adds fluff.

Reactive Evolution: (Maybe Limited)
Yu keeps adapting his technique when he faces a new adversity. When he couldn't hit Jean due to his slow-motion, Yu developed a technique that allowed him to blitz Jean(c29), further improving it once Jean thought of a tactic to counter it(c30). Kept improving it as the story goes, to counter Takeda (c48), who was not leaving Yu any space to use it (c47), to counter Fabrizio's strategy and reach (c61), and thirdly to counter Aaron, removing the need for space between him and the opponent, and to dash forward, even increasing the punches he throws(c81). + Yu counters Viktor's luck by remembering a technique, and Aaron punching with techniques by redirecting his attacks.

I kinda just lump this in with AD.

Information Analysis:
Yu is capable of judging the strength of attacks just by looking at them. He showed it by recognizing K's punch would have killed him(c2), while, just before, he couldn't be bothered to dodge worthless punches(c2), and even understood the danger of Aaron while using techniques(c85). Anticipated Fabrizio's strategy (c61).

This works, i suppose. I'll add it later.

 

[Dinozxd]

Yes. It's stated his potential bloomed around this age, as evident by how he developed enhanced senses as a child.

It should be fine then.

Cognitive skill/cognitive ability inherently encapsulates one's ability to reason, predict, and process information. Siha processes information like a computer and utilizes this to predict moves—an extension of his inherent cognitive potential he had from birth. Yu having superior cognition, especially in the context of the Boxer and its genius scaling, would justify this type of scaling.

This genius scaling stuff is already accepted so I can't really bother with arguing aganist it.

or some reason the forum isn't letting me quote your second message so I'll just respond to it here: check out this verse. It utilizes this type of skill scaling a lot.

Didn't know Re zero had skill scaling lol. I just thought the powerscaling was Reinhard slamming everyone.

Same thing is happening so next response: that's not how it works. To begin with, to predict through analysis, you need variables to consider which can initiate a prediction. This is how all types of analytical prediction function—whether it's through analyzing muscles, blood flow, heartbeats, etc, to analytically make a prediction, you need to analyze. Both information analysis and analytical prediction both literally have the word "analysis," so this should be obvious.

I guess you could say that, yeah.

Dura neg: a guard is meant to block an opponent's attacks by stopping the energy of it from getting through. If an attack "pierces" or "drills" through the guard, that means the energy is passing through the guard. It's not actually dura neg, yes, but it is a pseudo-form of it that allows one to circumvent a conventional guard.

That is pretty much possible irl though.

This ability even culminates in the greater dura neg Yu develops in his heavyweight key.

His dura neg in his heavyweight key is more like a solid technique. It's most definitely not the same thing as the "dura neg" he has in his start of the series key.

Social influencing: if it was an issue of having a creepy appearance, then everyone would be constantly terrified of Yu just by looking at him. But it's never stated or mentioned to be a matter of him looking weird.

Then it just means that his gaze is the stuff that induces fear. You don't just gaze at people you like being around. It's pretty common for boxers to be decent people outside the ring while being menaces inside the ring.

It's a sense of danger that he emits

This is kinda misleading. He specifically says that it's the sense of danger he felt, not some sense of danger Yu himself emitted. Those are two different things. Him feeling a sense of danger has something to do with psychology, not straight up supernatural stuff.

You say that the scan doesn't mention his presence, but it doesn't NEED to, because Yu is, in fact, present in the ring. Why would the story spell out that its his presence when you can easily infer that's what's happening by the fact that him just standing there is making a man see a giant gun loom over his head?

This argument doesn't really mean anything as it's just your overall thoughts about the scene.

 

[azontr]

That is pretty much possible irl though.

A lot of things possible in fiction are also possible in real life. That doesn't change the reality of what the ability is.

His dura neg in his heavyweight key is more like a solid technique. It's most definitely not the same thing as the "dura neg" he has in his start of the series key.

Whether or not it's a solid technique or not, it's still an application of the same skill that Yu honed to a greater level. We're just going to have to agree to disagree on this one, since it's clear we have fundamentally differing views on what qualifies as "dura neg."

Then it just means that his gaze is the stuff that induces fear. You don't just gaze at people you like being around. It's pretty common for boxers to be decent people outside the ring while being menaces inside the ring.

No, that's not what it means, because that's never stated in the story and something you just made up.

This is kinda misleading. He specifically says that it's the sense of danger he felt, not some sense of danger Yu himself emitted. Those are two different things. Him feeling a sense of danger has something to do with psychology, not straight up supernatural stuff.

And people affected by supernatural fear aura don't FEEL the fear affecting them? Is fear not an emotion inherently rooted in our psychology, but instead some supernatural phenomena? What does this argument even mean?

This argument doesn't really mean anything as it's just your overall thoughts about the scene.

No, it's the objective interpretation of the scene. Yu is present in the ring. He doesn't do anything, say anything, or even move at all. All he does is get into his stance, the match starts, and Taker feels fear. This isn't something that requires a statement, it's just basic reasoning.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

The CRT looks amazing but there is stuff i disagree with it;

Aura (Fear inducing) - This needs to be supernatural, the verse in no way shape or form has supernatural elements, what Yu's shows here is just high levels of instigating fear

Aura needs to be like for example nen, take Hisoka using his nen on Killua and Gon, before entering the tournament tower, or Meruem unleashing his aura so much that it made a professional hunter run away from fear and a chimera who from fear alone aged extremely fast

Based on this, i disagree with this ability

Next is;

Limited Attack redirection - Upon going by the justification of the ability we have this;

Attack Reflection is the explicit ability to turn one's opponent's attacks against them. This is a rather powerful ability, being able to perform offense and defense simultaneously by effectively turning one's efforts against them. Some common limitations include only

working on attacks of a certain type or power level, a lengthy preparation time, or a specific requirement for use.

Yu is not making Aaron punching himself, this is simply just a skill feat nothing else

This is it for the downgrades;

Like Zefra, i would like to give him some abilities like;

Enhanced Awareness - Dodged a sneak attack punch from Qasim without even looking, and dodged a lamp on the ceiling while tying his choose without looking

They weren't really that far away, don't think this qualifies as much.

I believe this qualifies (in Bob's case) seeing a muscle twitch from a fairly distance should warrant microscopic vision (not telescopic)

 

[XxZetsuxX]

Also, on the stats, it says attack speed, that's wrong, it's combat speed

Attack speed is the speed of attacks like kamehameha

 

[MrKerf]

Looks great. The only thing I feel iffy about is Yu being "Incomparably faster than J".

 

[azontr]

This needs to be supernatural, the verse in no way shape or form has supernatural elements, what Yu's shows here is just high levels of instigating fear

It literally cannot be social influencing as it does not qualify for the ability. To socially influence somebody you need to manipulate them or, as the ability implies, influence them with words, actions, or some kind of psychological element. I have no idea how this is social influencing, it's a completely separate ability. If you imbue somebody with fear just with your presence there is nothing it can be except for a supernatural ability.

Attack Reflection is the explicit ability to turn one's opponent's attacks against them. This is a rather powerful ability, being able to perform offense and defense simultaneously by effectively turning one's efforts against them. Some common limitations include only

That's why I have it listed as "redirection", not "reflection," and also why it's limited. Not really an important ability so I can remove it if others want, but it is an important distinction.

Looks great. The only thing I feel iffy about is Yu being "Incomparably faster than J".

Idk why that'd be smth to be iffy about, Yu is incomparable to J, when he's at the peak of his despair.

 

[XxZetsuxX]

It literally cannot be social influencing as it does not qualify for the ability. To socially influence somebody you need to manipulate them or, as the ability implies, influence them with words, actions, or some kind of psychological element. I have no idea how this is social influencing, it's a completely separate ability. If you imbue somebody with fear just with your presence there is nothing it can be except for a supernatural ability.

Aura section explicitly states that its "The ability to have energy envelop the user", Yu never did that, Aura is supernatural and it's not fear hax too btw

That's why I have it listed as "redirection", not "reflection," and also why it's limited. Not really an important ability so I can remove it if others want, but it is an important distinction.

I would like it to be removed, changing the name of the ability doesn't mean it has become valid all of a sudden, such ability is not even listed on vsbattle


Also, did you not see my comment below the attack redirection ;-;? enhanced awareness part and microscopic vision

 

[azontr]

Aura section explicitly states that its "The ability to have energy envelop the user", Yu never did that, Aura is supernatural and it's not fear hax too btw

It is, objectively, some type of fear hax. It can't be social influencing. The fear manipulation page itself says

It should be noted simply terrorizing the opponent either by authority, strength or demeanour only would qualify as Social Influencing, as Fear Manipulation would allow the user to inflict fear regardless of these factors.

Yu isn't using authority, strength, or demeanor to instigate fear. He just stands there and fear happens. That's supernatural.

I would like it to be removed, changing the name of the ability doesn't mean it has become valid all of a sudden, such ability is not even listed on vsbattle

I'm not going to do so, but if staff or other members come and want it removed I will.

 

[Shmooply]

some of you mfs have become too comfortable with making social influencing a supernatural power