The Binding of Isaac Repentance Upgrade *Spoilers*

[BLS]

As you may know the new Isaac DLC came out recently, so i wanted to add some stuff that is missing from the Afterbirth+ exclusive Isaac and verse in general. For this thread i will divulge into the meta aspect of Isaac for a tier, though that will be discussed the last, so for now some powers

Powers and Abillities​

Metal manipulation via Anima Zola

Intangibillity via Dark Arts

Existence Erasure via Eraser (Interstingly enough bosses and enemies will remain erased even after using the "R" Key item) it also has a property where things that are erased cannot appear again so for example if i erase a fly and there is an enemy that spawns flies, he is unable to do so after i did it

Creation? via Red Key (It allows creating "new rooms" in already small floors)

Can slow down and weaken enemies via upside down Strength

Upside down Magician provides greater projectile repelling aura than the Soul

Supernatural Luck should be added from various luck boosting items, though luck also has a large part in tear effects and the like. Also Cain's Lucky Foot which converts normally bad pills into good or neutral ones, but also increasing the chance at winning in stuff like slot machines. Sacred Orb also prevents lower quality items to spawn

Soul Manipulation from Vade Retro (Allows Isaac to destroy the ghosts enemies leave behind after death), Hungry Soul (Which lets Isaac use the enemies ghosts after death to attack other enemies), also passively summons spirits from Purgatory

X-Ray vision? from Guppy's Eye, it allows him to see if and what chests, fires and sacks have inside them

Passive empathic and fear manipulation from Venus and 2Spooky

Ice Manipulation from Uranus (Currently he has it incorrectly on his profile, Mom's Contact petrifies enemies not freeze them)

I'm not aware of what Echo Chamber fits to, Power Mimicry maybe?

R Key is also weird, it makes it so Isaac keeps everything he has but resets the run to the first floor allowing him to potentially fight the same final bosses multiple times, also has interesting interactions with Eraser as said above, the timer does not reset though

Full Earth Manipulation from stuff like upside down The Tower and Terra, also Inorganic physiology for the latter since he is literally made of rock.

Gravity Manipulation from Ocular Rift, Tiny Planet, Saturnus etc. generally he can make his tears orbit himself with the latter and attract tears, enemies, pickups etc. with the former

Precognition Dream Catcher which shows Isaac future bosses and items

Attack Reflection from Divine Intervention

Resistance to poison and fear with Evil Charm

Power Nullification in this case projectiles as he can negate them with Lost contact and fire abillities gained like Ghost Pepper, Bird's Eye, Candles etc. passively aswell via Broken Modem, this was added in Repentance

Non Physical interaction tons of enemies are ghosts or spirits, which Isaac can harm, but also weird abstracts like Delirium and now Dogma (I'm amazed it wasn't on there)

Sound Manipulation via Larynx

Resistance to Soul Manipulation, Isaac being able to control his soul is nothing new, but Astral Projection the actual item negates a hit of damage and returns his soul back. Also "Soul" disembodying items interact with extra lives, as in, even if his soul may be defeated he can seemingly rebuild his body and soul again

Mind Manipulation? from Rotten Tomato

Spindown Dice rolls down an items internal value, if the value would be the lowest in the data it makes it disappear instead

Tainted Apollyon is also an oddity since he is shown to be comprised of the "abyss" or a void portal of sorts, the item he has looks like his cracked head and essentially destroys items to gain new locusts. Same for T.Eden who is shown in the posted note to be a glitch entity

EDIT: I've found more stuff to add

Regeneration upgrade, various items make Isaac lose body parts, for example The Intruder completely destroys his head and Isaac regrows it when going out of a room, this should make it Mid level regen

Berserk Mode via Berserk!

Resistance to Disease manipulation, Isaac can hold Cancer and is completely fine, but also various other infectious or disease items like Leprosy

The Mind and other map/place revealing items should give him Clairvoyance

Panic Button lets Isaac use an active item before he would take damage, this would trigger shields, teleports and other items to protect him and evade attacks. Instinctive reaction seems to be the only thing that fits this from what i gather

Extrasensory perception, from various items that limit his eye sight or the above like him literally losing his head, that is to say he can function fine even with just his lower half

Probability manipulation from various items that prevent him from getting bad or unwanted outcomes for example Eucharist and Goathead, basically there is a percentage chance if Isaac gets angel/devil rooms, but those items guarantee that they appear. I've also mentioned Sacred Orb which prevents lower quality items from spawning, he can also pick between 2 outcomes from the "Option" items. But this goes alot deeper with percentage chance items and stuff that gives him better odds at getting different things, probably alot more than i can name of the top of my head

Limited Spatial Manipulation from Continuum, which allows his tears to go beyond rooms, come back and loop around

Resistance to Ice Manipulation, from Uranus wherein he is frozen or made of ice and once again is able to function as if nothing happens and Electricity manipulation where his head emits constant electric sparks from Jacob's Ladder, Reality Warping from Missing No which glitches his body up before turning back to normal, Blood Manipulation (Red Hearts in Isaac function akin to blood) Sumptorium further makes this point clear via the Blood Clots but also various blood disease items like Vasculitis or Haemolacria

Fate Manipulation/Plot Manipulation. So the game emphasizes routes and endings as different paths of Isaac's subconscious and imagination evidenced by the Polaroid/Negative which say "Fate Chosen" as their description. Though a more literal example he has control over the story as he literally changed the ending of ending 22 from a more grim ending where he sees a better alternate path flashing before his eyes when he ascends after defeating the Beast (Which is another embodiment of his Mother) to a more happy ending when his father recommended it to which he agreed.

Enemies and other profiles​

Enemies, bosses etc. are all figments of isaac's imagination, they can die and be recreated repeatedly through runs, final bosses especially you can fight multiple times through Victory laps and R key. So i think immortality type 8 should be on their profiles, Delirium especially should get abstract existence due to literally being an embodiment of Isaac's delusion

Tiering​

EDIT: Currently the Isaac cosmology is Universe sized at the very least, the planetarium rooms and posted notes confirm this, though i've decided to keep this for a later time when i have better justification for them if i even get the chance, so sadly i've omitted my original comment due to some inexperience in how Reality/Fiction works, sorry again

 

[DaReaperMan]

Nice and organized! It's fine at first glance

 

[DragonLord]

Pretty sure being the author of a in-universe fictional story doesn’t give a Low 2-C tier without further context that the fictional story in question is real

 

[BLS]

Pretty sure being the author of a in-universe fictional story doesn’t give a Low 2-C tier without further context that the fictional story in question is real

Ah if that's true then that's unfortunate, should not affect the rest though

 

[Thelastmlg]

R key sounds like time travel to me, that would give the eraser low 2-C range, I guess? Or something like causality erasure.

Pretty sure being imaginative would give all enemies and bosses AE

 

[QuasiYuri]

I think Isaac or Delirium could get RW on a Low 2-C scale as avatars (also type 9 immortality for Isaac).

Everything is fine otherwise.

 

[InfiniteDay]

Powers look good.

Neutral on AP.

 

[Voltairee]

Everything looks good

 

[BLS]

Bump

 

[Shmooply]

Hmm, I'm getting Madotsuki vibes...
Agree with the powers stuff, neutral on AP.

 

[BLS]

Does T.Appolyon count for Nonexistant physiology from what i said in my post above? That is to say the Void item and him having it in his body

 

[BLS]

Bump

 

[BLS]

I've updated the OP, removed the tiering placement since i don't feel very confident with it right now, i may tackle it in another revision or not. Please correct me on the stuff that i may have misinterpreted and ofcourse agree/disagree

 

[BLS]

Bump

 

[Livinmeme]

Agree on all of that

 

[BLS]

Bump

 

[Armorchompy]

Here's a calculation I made for Repentance a while ago, I was working on a CRT myself but kind of ran out of interest. I definitely disagree with tier 2 tho, at least it being scaled to physicals. Isaac is indeed the author of The Binding of Isaac, it is a hallucination he's having in his dying moments. And yes, Isaac is dying, the part with his father is also a hallucination, Eddie confirmed it a couple times. So no fate manipulation, not any kind he can directly control

Also, I disagree with Immortality Type 8. As seen with rooms that pit you against multiple instances of a boss at once (Take, for example, the double Adversary room in The Chest), I think the bosses are just species and not individuals. Same for enemies ofc. I'm not 100% sure if multiple runs are canon, the post it note and unlocking items always felt more like a gameplay thing to me.

 

[BLS]

Also, I disagree with Immortality Type 8. As seen with rooms that pit you against multiple instances of a boss at once (Take, for example, the double Adversary room in The Chest), I think the bosses are just species and not individuals. Same for enemies ofc. I'm not 100% sure if multiple runs are canon, the post it note and unlocking items always felt more like a gameplay thing to me.

Final bosses aren't really explainable through the "species" excuse, you can literally fight them multiple times through victory lap and R key

 

[BLS]

Eddie confirmed it a couple times.

I think creator statements aren't always just taken as gospel, not to mention the fact that ending 22 is the last ending and implies the contrary. Besides all that and my opinion on what is or isn't the "true" ending, it still happened, you cannot just say ending 22 did not happen.

 

[Armorchompy]

I think creator statements aren't always just taken as gospel, not to mention the fact that ending 22 is the last ending and implies the contrary

No, it's pretty obvious that it's a hallucination when you think about it. There's Isaac coughing to hint at the fact that he's running out of air inside the chest, the "are you getting sleepy yet", the messed up stuff you see in TBOI which a happy child would likely not think of (and that his father would object to), plus all of Dogma/The Beast is Isaac overcoming his issues by defeating what "started" them allowing him to finally imagine himself ascending and getting a peaceful death, and the fact that Isaac's dad was clearly an irresponsible POS and wouldn't go back to take him from Mom.

Also like, who do you think wrote that ending, Edmund did, I think he knows what it means better than you or I do.

Final bosses aren't really explainable through the "species" excuse, you can literally fight them multiple times through victory lap and R key

Which reset Isaac back to the run through Time Manip. That's not really resurrection if you go back in time to do that.

 

[BLS]

Which reset Isaac back to the run through Time Manip. That's not really resurrection if you go back in time to do that.

That's blatantly not true since the timer still stays intact and things like Boss rush and Hush don't open

 

[BLS]

No, it's pretty obvious that it's a hallucination when you think about it. There's Isaac coughing to hint at the fact that he's running out of air inside the chest, the "are you getting sleepy yet", the messed up stuff you see in TBOI which a happy child would likely not think of (and that his father would object to), plus all of Dogma/The Beast is Isaac overcoming his issues by defeating what "started" them allowing him to finally imagine himself ascending and getting a peaceful death, and the fact that Isaac's dad was clearly an irresponsible POS and wouldn't go back to take him from Mom.

Also like, who do you think wrote that ending, Edmund did, I think he knows what it means better than you or I do.

And quite literally how does that change from what i said in the OP that he does create everything in the game either subconsciously or consciously through his drawings

 

[Armorchompy]

That's blatantly not true since the timer still stays intact and things like Boss rush and Hush don't open

Even if they aren't time manip, they still clearly reset the state of the game somehow, they change the rooms and items, they make the Polaroid and the Negative appear again, they close the Knife Piece 2 door again and so on, as such I wouldn't use them as evidence.

 

[Armorchompy]

And quite literally how does that change from what i said in the OP that he does create everything in the game either subconsciously or consciously through his drawings

It is all subconscious, which means Isaac can't willingly alter it, which means no fate manip.

 

[BLS]

It is all subconscious, which means Isaac can't willingly alter it, which means no fate manip.

I assume you arguing against Plot manip aswell?

Even if they aren't time manip, they still clearly reset the state of the game somehow,

Things will stay erased even after using R Key, so it clearly keeps the status of the previous run in check not to mention keeping all your items

 

[Armorchompy]

I assume you arguing against Plot manip aswell?

Yeah I think it's the same thing

Things will stay erased even after using R Key, so it clearly keeps the status of the previous run in check not to mention keeping all your items

I think that's just a range thing for Eraser as for items being kept it resets the run, not Isaac himself.

 

[BLS]

Yeah I think it's the same thing

I think that's just a range thing for Eraser as for items being kept it resets the run, not Isaac himself.

They are not afaik

How is it range, what does it have to do with range? Also we know it does not completely reset it when the timer, item and pill pools stay intact

 

[Armorchompy]

They are not afaik

Oh yeah they're different abilities but the reasoning for them here is the same. Although come to think of it just cause he can't control it doesn't mean it isn't there, maybe it's some sort of Limited Plot/Fate Manipulation?

How is it range, what does it have to do with range?

Even after the run is reset the effect remains because it can still affect the new one, I meant. Isaac items affecting separate runs isn't unheard of, Eden's Blessing is a thing.

Also we know it does not completely reset it when the timer, item and pill pools stay intact

That's true, I suppose, the evidence is contrasting. But even if it partially resets the run, the bosses and enemies are among the things being reset.

 

[BLS]

Oh yeah they're different abilities but the reasoning for them here is the same.

Plot manipulation is creating/changing stories or literally the plot what have you, part of Reality Warping and Fate Manip is more just destiny, i was also confused about it hence my above statement

That's true, I suppose, the evidence is contrasting. But even if it partially resets the run, the bosses and enemies are among the things being reset.

This is ignoring the Victory Lap, which i also mentioned. But yeah i agree it isn't cut and clear, i don't agree it's time manip though

 

[Armorchompy]

Plot manipulation is creating/changing stories or literally the plot what have you, part of Reality Warping and Fate Manip is more just destiny, i was also confused about it hence my above statement

Yeah but both of them come from Isaac writing the story, so if he only does in a subconscious way both suffer from the same limitations.

This is ignoring the Victory Lap, which i also mentioned. But yeah i agree it isn't cut and clear, i don't agree it's time manip though

Victory Lap is a similar enough case to R Key that I didn't feel like mentioning it, but it works the same, and so does Forget Me Now on a smaller scale. I definitely agree it's not Time Manip though, probably some weird RW stuff.

 

[BLS]

Yeah but both of them come from Isaac writing the story, so if he only does in a subconscious way both suffer from the same limitations.

He portrays himself victorious against mom's heart in earlier endings and as a demon in others, so saying he has zero control/thought about what is happening is just not true and again ending 22 does exist and shows that wether or not he is hallucinating, he does make his own happy ending of sorts.

Victory Lap is a similar enough case to R Key that I didn't feel like mentioning it, but it works the same, and so does Forget Me Now on a smaller scale. I definitely agree it's not Time Manip though, probably some weird RW stuff.

It's Creation/RW most guaranteed, the fact that the time does not reset, the floors change (obviously) and minor things like pill pools imply this

 

[Armorchompy]

He portrays himself victorious against mom's heart in earlier endings and as a demon in others, so saying he has zero control/thought about what is happening is just not true and again ending 22 does exist and shows that wether or not he is hallucinating, he does make his own happy ending of sorts.

He doesn't really willingly make any of that happen though, that's just where his hallucinations take him. Well, there's an argument for Ending 22 being a limited case of him making his own fate, but I'm not sure.

It's Creation/RW most guaranteed, the fact that the time does not reset, the floors change (obviously) and minor things like pill pools imply this

Yeah probably

 

[BLS]

He doesn't really willingly make any of that happen though,

He does, that's exactly why he portrays himself as a demon, his mother as a monster and his dad as the narrator (the one who reads out pills and cards aswell), he blames himself for everything and so he thinks himself those events up

 

[BLS]

Also outside of this argument, his father in Ending 22 quite literally says "Are you sure this is how you want this story to end, Isaac? You're the one writing it", so saying he didn't knowingly think of the events in his head/story whatever or has limited/no control when he is able to portray various events, his parents and objects from his world into the story is not true. Especially when once again he portrays himself as a demon and his mother as various monsters

 

[Armorchompy]

i think you're reading a little too literally into it, the reason he's a demon sometimes is because he sees himself as that, and the reason his mom always shows up is that she's traumatized him so she's always in his subconscious. As for "you're the one writing this story" it's got more weight but considering that's a hallucination too I'm not sure it's reliable. Honestly you could argue post-dogma should be a separate key, it's clearly an amp after all

 

[BLS]

i think you're reading a little too literally into it, the reason he's a demon sometimes is because he sees himself as that, and the reason his mom always shows up is that she's traumatized him so she's always in his subconscious.

Dude, that's exactly why he portrays and inserts them there as he does, if he wasn't aware he wouldn't think of Guppy, his parents divorce etc. In Ending 20 he drew himself as a demon and showed his parents fighting in his drawings, so even that supports him knowing of and portraying those events and himself that way. That is to say, him being literally shown a demon was not something subconscious but something he willingly thought of himself.

And i'm not reading "too much into this", Isaac thinking he is at fault for his parents divorce, blaming himself and deluding himself is a theme of the game

 

[Armorchompy]

I didn't say you read too much into it, I said you read too literally into it, all these things could realistically be happening at a subconscious level, the drawings happened in Isaac's real life and they were meant to show us his thoughts, not to literally affect his dying nightmare (which wouldn't make any sense since, why would someone's drawing directly control their dreams)

 

[BLS]

they were meant to show us his thoughts, not to literally affect his dying nightmare (which wouldn't make any sense since, why would someone's drawing directly control their dreams)

Even though in ending 16 it shows him turning into a demon? My point was to show that he was aware and in control, him thinking he was evil or the devil affected his dreams and drawings, thus the game. They correlate

 

[Armorchompy]

There is a correlation and it does affect both, you are right on that, what I disagree with is that meaning he has control over his dreams. Him thinking he was evil does affect the game, but it's not a conscious thing, it's not a "i am evil > i will make myself suffer in my dying hallucinations", i think it's more of a "i am evil > i believe i deserve suffering > my dying hallucinations are me suffering"

 

[BLS]

There is a correlation and it does affect both, you are right on that, what I disagree with is that meaning he has control over his dreams. Him thinking he was evil does affect the game, but it's not a conscious thing, it's not a "i am evil > i will make myself suffer in my dying hallucinations", i think it's more of a "i am evil > i believe i deserve suffering > my dying hallucinations are me suffering"

I would agree if it weren't for ending 22 implying he is aware of what he is thinking about in his delusions, that story of slaying the Beast and ascending to heaven to see a more fulfilling perfect life, then nothing. That is to say he was in control and "wanted it to be that way" initially until his Father intervened whom said he could change it to something less grim