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Terminator Revisions.

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XING06

XING06

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I think we should revert the stats for the T-800 Pre-Genisys or start another category for the T-850 to improve accuracy. In lore, the T-800 model was sent back in Terminator 1 and 2, but afterwards the T-850 was sent back (http://terminator.wikia.com/wiki/T-850). The T-850 is stronger and more durable by far comprared to the T-800 as it is an upgraded version based on WoG. The original T-800 should be wall to room level at most (In Terminator 2 the terminator was badly stunned during the factory fight by getting his head rammed in with what looks like a heavy beam of steel). In addition, the original terminator (T-800) was killed in Genisys by a armor piercing .50 BMG, a wall level weapon with at the very best low room level penetration , which "Pops" or Guardian was also stated to be vulnerable to.
 
I suppose that this seems to make sense, but we need more community input first.
 
I don't mind the proposed revisions at all, the feat present currently on the profile is suspect not only for being potentially anomalous but for appearing in a comic book which we can't even locate. For all I know it could be non-canon.
 
Okay. I think that seems reasonable,
 
Which ones are you thinking of?
 
Most of the feats here for the T-800 support what I was talking about. The terminator being buried under rubble (which the page scan doesn't even show properly - this is just a guess but probably not that much because it looks like a part of a mine shaft collapsed by a single dynamite stick) and crawling out is something wall to room characters are capable of (a Space Marine who has building level durability was able to dig his way out of "thousands of tons of rubble" without damage), the explosions they are shown to tank are never more than wall level at best (pipe bombs mostly rely on shrapnel to kill with low explosive charge, propane truck explosion [exploding gas has a low amount of explosive force most damage through burns], car bomb (not that big - enough to be room level maybe probably lower seeing as how the human girl in the picture survives being nearby) The most impressive is probably surviving the ocean depths but again I'm fairly sure a high wall to room level character can survive this - eg. a submarine/deep sea explorer robot. However it does show really impressive resistance to electricity and plasma.
 
Well, in lack of further community input, I think so, yes.
 
Okay. I suppose that seems reasonable then, but it of course depends on how far down we are talking about.
 
Well in the first respect thread it shows the feat and all you see is the T-800 going under the surface and comic states it sunk beneath the waves and seeing how they can't swim at all I would think it sunk all the way to the bottom. After looking at the respect threads the T-800's also have other great durability feats like ,surviving a lightning bolt, surviving getting hit with an anti tank rocket, surviving getting hit with all the energy of a city power grid, surviving an explosion that nearly leveled a house. Nearly all of these are pretty consistent with being in tier 8. Seeing how every feat I just listed, even including the high 8-C feat that's currently on his profile came from the comics shows that the T-800's in the comics seem to be far more impressive than the ones seen in the movies which consistently get damaged and even destroyed by wall to room level explosions/attacks.
 
Well, we would have to know to what depth that he sank in order to calculate and scale from the feat.

The other feats may be useful though, but we still need calculations.
 
So here's the feat http://pm1.narvii.com/6529/a85a58ac303e293f08ba3b3df085f683002628cb_hq.jpg

It's shows the terminator beings dropped into the ocean and it states that its 354 miles off the California coastline which would be in the Pacific Ocean which has a minimum depth of 4,280 meters (around the same as the aqua man calc) and a max depth of 10,911 meters (around 2.5 times deeper than the aqua man feat).

So even at the minimum depth terminator sank around the same depth aqua man did in that aqua man calc which was 11.742 tons/city block level.
 
Okay. That seems reliable then, but you should preferably write a calculation blog (that includes the explanation you just told me, and uses the same method as the Aquaman calculation) to link to in the page.
 
XING06 has a good a point though as in the T-800's from the movies are really weak compared to the T-800's from the comics so maybe its a possibilty that the stats from the movies and comics should be keep sperate.
 
Fictional calcs give me a headache but they're fun! Anyway this calc seems pretty good, but I believe this to be a greater resistance to crushing pressure which we already knew the terminator had (eg. the hydraulic press the first T-800 was destroyed by was factory grade [some can go to the millions of psi] so easily matching the undersea-level calc in psi and it still took a while to crush it apart) as opposed to the terminator's actual combat durability (eg. a submarine can withstand crushing pressure but a wall level torpedo can sink it). So the terminator has a weakness to piercing (eg. T-800 speared through torso, sniped with .50 BMG, John Connor terminator impaled by helicopter blade) and sudden impact attacks? (eg. Explosions, Steel-beam ram - meh this one is kind of iffy) but is immensely durable and strong against massive force applied slower, electricity, and heat.
 
Terminator's canonicity is actually a rather complicated subject, but here's a link that will help. Consideing time travel is a big part of the Terminator franchise, it actually does make sense for it to be a multiverse. Anyway, I think the comics are considered dubiously canon. Then again, so is the Samus & Joey Manga and we allow it do to it being likely canon. And iirc, the Large Building Level+ feat came from a comic that was considered a sequal to Sarah Connor Chonicles. Anyway, I'm all for Terminator being upgraded to 8-B.

On topic, I know the first two Terminator movies have relatively unimpressive feats compared to the comics, but actually, I think Terminator 3 actually did have some very impressive feats. The main one being his Hydrogen Fuel Cell detonation; which would be roughly Large Town level+ AP due to it being a small hydrogen bomb. But that would also make him a glass cannon as it would not scale to his durability. I'll look for links in a moment, but I do recall him hanging on to a crane that was casually demolishing multiple buildings; and the Terminator's back taking the hit of each one. As well as him casually flipping over a tractor trailer in either T3 or T5.

Edit: Crane feat; dragged through the side of a building and then took a direct hit from a speeding fire truck. 2:29 to 3:04
 
@DarkDragonMedeus I've always wondered what level the terminators hydrogen fuel cell would be. And yea some other good feats from the terminator films are the lifting strength feats like in T3 where the T-850 holds up a huge nuclear blast door with one arm burning the doors motor in the process and in T-5 where the T-800 holds up a school bus that was hanging of the side of a bridge with one arm.

And the T-800 likely has another 8-B feat, which would be surviving all the energy of a city power grid and seeing how electro from amamzing Spider-Man 2 is Multi-city block level+ from absorbing the power of from New York city's power grid I have high hopes for this feat.
 
Terminator vs Wesker VS Thread outcome should definately be removed on top of this. I never agreed with it to begin with due to false reasonings and NLF's regarding his healing factor. But the upgrades and the fact that he defeated an opponent with an even stronger healing factor (Low-High T-1000 vs Low-Mid Wesker) proves it.
 
Damn T-850 is a lot more impressive than I thought. But back on topic should we still make a seperate category for T1 and T2 T-800s? Because as everyone has remarked they don't have very impressive feats there. Also if we raise to 8-B for other movie terminator T-800s should be specify weakness to piercing attacks, as they may take concussive force really well but they can still be defeated by high caliber bullets similar to Spiderman
 
To be fair have the T-800's been affected by 50 cals in any other media rather than just in one terminator movie.

Bullets in fiction are subject to massive amounts of PIS and WIS since many characters in comic that have no special weaknesses to piercings attacks still get harmed by bullets when like every one of there feats are far more impressive than bullets.
 
Another thing is that seemingly every wall to room level thing that harms/destroys a T-800 happens in the terminator films rather the terminator comics.
 
Yeah I know which is why I wanted to make a special section for the T-1/2 movie T-800.

Also I agree, most fictional characters capable of tanking a building level explosion can still be killed with a sharpened piece of metal or a fast moving slug. Its dumb and it doesn't make a lot of sense but it is how it is. Sometimes for a more scientific explanation I think of it like kevlar - their dense muscular/skeletal system helps disperse the force of a slow enough or large enough projectile (eg. a pistol bullet/fist/rock/explosion) but a fast focused attack (eg. a rifle bullet) goes right through. Course its just a really undeveloped theory feel free to disagree and or add to it.

Still I think we should put two different durabilities or specify piercing/cutting weakness if we do decide to update the profile as piercing/cutting attacks have been shown to have extremely consistent effect on all models of Terminators except the T-1000 (eg. T-800 .50 BMG AP, T-X Helicopter edge sliced/crushed legs off, T-300 impaled by helicopter blade).

Also the energy absorption thing seems like the terminator's extreme resistance to electricity which we have already established.
 
"As heavy caliber AP bullets have been shown to have extremely consistent effect on all of models of Terminators."

Can you show some examples because the only time I've seen heavy caliber AP bullets do anything to a terminator was in Terminator Genesis.
 
Sorry was editing at the time I meant piercing/cutting damage. Fixed that and gave examples of other instances where it seems to overcome their durability.
 
And honestly if killing a terminator is as easy as shooting it with an AP 50 cal round then why didn't the humans do that in the fight against skynet.
 
Yeah pretty much all the cutting/piercing examples came from the movies. Which is why we should add a new profile for T-800s in Terminator 1 and 2 or start a new profile/section for the comics like you said before. So can we?

Oh I found a good supporting feat for how in the comics they do seem a lot more powerful. One text lines shows that they can be damaged and survive high explosive force ("CPU Re-Boot initiated, tempo---rary directive purge:Critically damaged by high explosives. Entombed in Mexican sewer after detonation and structural collapse. Z000.M inoperative and components available for repair. Resume sec--ondary objective after repairs complete." - got the quote from the wiki). Seems like it supports your city block level durability calc as a big gas line explosion is really, really bad capable of collapsing multiple large buildings. Even if it is only gas the blast and shockwave is contained and reflected magnifying the force of the initially weaker explosion. Add on to the fact that they are then buried under tons of rubble and survive seems like a good supporting feat.

The electricity feat can be stopped by electrical resistance. We can make small faraday cages or an equivalent that surround important components of our own electronics which electricity is comepletely useless against. The terminator could use similar technology to do so, as again it is a hyper-advanced killing machine. The main benefit is that it would also gain EMP resistance which seems like something they would want.
 
I think that incorporating separate statistics keys for the movies and comicbooks seems like a good idea.
 
Yea I think the comic version would have its own stats as well.

And yea those feats along with the feat that's currently on his profile all support the city block feat.
 
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