Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken Discussion Thread 7

[NeoSuperior]

Most TL mistakes are in regards to whether "resist" or "cancel" are used. It's a difference in potency but as we know even "cancel" doesn't neccessarily grant perfect protection. Rimuru mentioned that his own Hellflare would break through his own Cancel Temperature, but said Hellflare reaches temperatures of "hundreds of millions degrees", which is over ten times the sun's core temperature. Note that essentially, Cancel temperature is 6 tiers higher than "Resist Flame Attack", which the Orc Disaster used to completely defend against Rimuru's/Great Sage's improved Flare Circle, which reaches just "thousands of degrees". In regards to Fire-based resistances, it probably goes like this:

Resist Flame Attack -> Resist Heat -> Resist Temperature -> Resist Natural Effects -> Cancel Flame Attack -> Cancel Heat -> Cancel Temperature -> Cancel Natural Effects

In regards to actual changes, it seems like the whole "Tempest Crest" thing was removed completely after all. I mistook it for a translation mistake earlier, but looking at it again, it seems everyone in Rimuru's camp simply got Veldora's divine protection now.

In regards to my blog post, I am working on it and am thinking on whether or not I should put it into my previous blog post or make a seperate one. I'll post it here either way.

 

[Doomrider7]

Most TL mistakes are in regards to whether "resist" or "cancel" are used. It's a difference in potency but as we know even "cancel" doesn't neccessarily grant perfect protection. Rimuru mentioned that his own Hellflare would break through his own Cancel Temperature, but said Hellflare reaches temperatures of "hundreds of millions degrees", which is over ten times the sun's core temperature. Note that essentially, Cancel temperature is 6 tiers higher than "Resist Flame Attack", which the Orc Disaster used to completely defend against Rimuru's/Great Sage's improved Flare Circle, which reaches just "thousands of degrees". In regards to Fire-based resistances, it probably goes like this:

Resist Flame Attack -> Resist Heat -> Resist Temperature -> Resist Natural Effects -> Cancel Flame Attack -> Cancel Heat -> Cancel Temperature -> Cancel Natural Effects

In regards to actual changes, it seems like the whole "Tempest Crest" thing was removed completely after all. I mistook it for a translation mistake earlier, but looking at it again, it seems everyone in Rimuru's camp simply got Veldora's divine protection now.

In regards to my blog post, I am working on it and am thinking on whether or not I should put it into my previous blog post or make a seperate one. I'll post it here either way.

Cool and thanks.

 

[Elizhaa]

Yeah, I loook up Yuuki's profile and he got Law manipulation.

Early I said, Rimru should have Law manipulation in Ultimate Lifeform Key:

He got it too: Normal magic cannot be used with time being stopped since everything stops in stopped time. The only usable magic is Primitive Magic [ch247].

Futhermore, it is stated that:

Just as Yuuki planned, Rimuru seemed to be analyzing the Primitive Magic[ch247].


It also doesn't look the primitive magic Rimuru has was only said to be able to affect souls since the usage of the word has not been linked with Primative from Ch246-248.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Yuuki only has law manipulation cause of the akashic records which would give him acess to Ramiri's specific primative magic which can modify the laws of the world, has nothing to do with his own primative magic.

 

[NeoSuperior]

Here is the promised blog post. This was primarily the Tolerance-Skills along with some other things. I have no idea how the translators could make so many foolish mistakes. Perhaps they were behind schedule or lazy, but still, not being able to even differentiate between þäíÕè╣ [Cancel] and ÞÇɵǺ [Resist] so many times is rather disappointing for a so-called "official translation".

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Plus the fact that it takes so long for a volume to come out, the official translation is pretty disappointing.

 

[NeoSuperior]

Oh, that too. 4 months between each release resulting in 3 volumes per year.

Though to be fair, the Slime LN volumes are considerably longer than most LNs. For example LN vol. 5 and escpacially LN vol. 6 are at least twice the length of an average Spice & Wolf volume. I'd know since I am turning the LN volumes into mp3 voice files to listen to underway. And Spice & Wolf volumes tend to be 2 - 2.5 hours long voice files, while Slime vol. 5 was almost 5 hours long and vol. 6 was over 6 hours long.

 

[Elizhaa]

Yuuki only has law manipulation cause of the akashic records which would give him acess to Ramiri's specific primative magic which can modify the laws of the world, has nothing to do with his own primative magic.

It is mentioned that Yuuki's Primitive magic manipulated phenomenon which likely mean law, in this case. Rimuru analyzed the Primitive magic that Yuuki used against him, so I think Rimruru should have it from his analysis of it.

Primitive Magic was a magic that reflected the user's Will and it wouldn't just activate because Yuuki understood what kind of magic to use. Just by wishing it, the phenomenon was invoked. This characteristic was the reason why it was called as the Ultimate Magic.
	~ Wn Ch.247​

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Key word is "the phenonmemon", if you wish for something, it will happen, that's not law manipulation, if anything sounds like reality warping, nothing about laws is mentioned there.

As i already said only Ramiris's primative magic is specifically said to manipulate laws.

@Neo True, also Fuse did say he basically gets to make the volumes as long as he wants.

 

[Elizhaa]

Key word is "the phenonmemon", if you wish for something, it will happen, that's not law manipulation, if anything sounds like reality warping, nothing about laws is mentioned there.
As i already said only Ramiris's primative magic is specifically said to manipulate laws.

Then, I would be fine with Reality Warping for Rimuru from Primitive Magic since he does not have until his last key

 

[NeoSuperior]

Actually, do we really need to differentiate between Pseudo-True Dragon and Ultimate Form? I have been wondering about this for a while, but do we really need two seperate keys just because of strength doubling that's not even enough to get an "At least" in the key for it, alongside with (up until now) no P&A differences?

Can't we just remove the Pseudo-True Dragon key altogether and merge it into Ultimate form?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

It isn't necessary, we can just have the key being psuedo true dragon and in the ap section say high 4-C, can get 2x stronger with ultimate form or something like that.

 

[NeoSuperior]

Wasn't the Ultimate Form something permanent though? So the result for AP would be something like this:

"Far superior to before. Velda, who is superior to Milim Nava and was a massive threat to Rimuru before, is now completely inferior to Rimuru as Rimuru evolves becoming stronger every day and then even became 2x stronger than that through Ultimate Form."

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Was it? Thought it was just a transformation.

 

[NeoSuperior]

I don't know... what chapter is it explained in?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Chapter 242, "Diablo declared the end of the match and refined his magic power to the maximum with ultrafast magic power excitation. Diablo's energy broke free of its maximum value immediately. He had drawn an equivalent amount of energy to his maximum energy out from Rimuru's『Nihility Collapse』. Besides that, he absorbed the surroundings' particles and instantaneously reinforced his body. He reconstructed a strong body that could withstand handling a high amount of energy by taking in the matter from his surroundings. That was completed in a blink of an eye. Without any time lag, Diablo transformed into his combat form. And that was Diablo's Ultimate Form. While wearing a cool smile, Diablo dealt with Damrada's kicks. Unlike earlier, Diablo easily stopped Damrada's full powered kicks with one hand. The reason was simple and clear. His energy had doubled and it became possible for him to bring out the same strength as Damrada."

It's not permanent, Diablo released the form:

"At the same time as Damrada disappeared, Diablo released his combat form. Although he used it composedly, the burden of magic power excitation wasn't low."

It's even called unstable:

"ÒÇîWhat was that technique just now? It looked like magic, but――ÒÇì ÒÇîThat's right. It's the fusion of Ultimate Skill and magic and its evolutionary series. I learned it while cooperating with Rimuru-sama who had developed it for fun. Because it's still an incomplete technique, a stable usage is still difficult.ÒÇì"

 

[NeoSuperior]

Oh right. But would that even be a problem for Rimuru who got his TD body (which is IIRC the strongest body one can possibly possess in Slimeverse), his infinite sized stomach with Turn Null within that's constantly generating energy and his own Infinite Regenerationn Skill, anyway?

And by the way, shouldn't Rimuru's intelligence get an upgrade to Supergenius "with Raphael"? Perhaps "with Ciel" even Nigh-Omnipotent?

Something like "Extraordinary Genius, Supergenius with Raphael" and "Supergenius, Nigh-Omnipotent with Ciel"?

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

That's speculative though, Rimuru himself never got the chance to use due to Yuuki stopping time, so we don't know.

What proves his intellect with Raphael is Supergenius? Nigh Omniscience for Ciel sounds like massive stretch, where is all the proof for this?

 

[NeoSuperior]

OK, I might take back the part about Raphael since I can only think of the fact that she got "all of creation" which let's her understand all non-conealed phenomena, though the lack of the "concealed phenomena" and the fact that these phenomena need to be encountered first might be exactly what disqualify her.

For Ciel though there are several things: First disconnecting Rimuru from the Voice of the World, an ancient Tier 2-C being that existed perhaps from close to the beginning of time up until now. Then Ciel proceeded to re-create Turn Null, the pinnacle skill that only the creator dragon god once possesed and lost upon a single use and was unable to recover ever since. Ciel on the other hand not only re-created that Skill but also combined it with Rimuru's physiology to get rid off the one-time-use limitation, making it permanent and probably the most potent Skill in existence, capable of creating and destroying multiverses when loaded enough. If that's still not enough then aside from the various inventions in magic, tech and magi-tech of Rimuru and/or Ciel, Ciel observed the entire central-universe for a time that might be within hundreds of digits of years for all we know, during which she witnessed an attempt at destroying the universe (or even multiverse) by Yuuki and later the process of a conceptual existence type 3 obliterating all other conceptual existences type 3 and even the process of said conceptual existence trying to obliterate Rimuru which failed and enabled her to do reactive evolution on and witnessing it finally disappearing/self-destructing once time ceased to function and Rimuru awoke. If that amount of collected data isn't enough to make Ciel AT LEAST a supergenius or maybe even Night-Omnipotent, then I don't know what would. Not to mention Rimuru somehow gained all info about Veldanava and past events somehow, which should also contribute to that.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

At best that might qualify Ciel for supergenius, btw nigh-omnipotent means almost all powerful, nigh omniscience is almost all knowing.

I don't think that's enough to say she knows almost everything.

 

[NeoSuperior]

Again, I want to point out that Rimuru somehow gained the knowledge about Veldanava, who died before Rimuru even started existing, implying that Rimuru became aware of the entire history of the universe (or even multiverse).

That's not all. Ciel actually had enough data to make a nigh-perfect copy of the universe (or multiverse?), with everything within being an almost exact copy, even able to appearently simulate anyone with a soul-connection to Rimuru, including memories, up to near perfection. Isn't that "night-omnipotent" right there?

 

[Elizhaa]

Between, is Reality Warping from Primitive Magic for Ultimate Form Rimuru and Yuuki alright for me to add or do I need a CRT?

Primitive Magic was a magic that reflected the user's Will and it wouldn't just activate because Yuuki understood what kind of magic to use. Just by wishing it, the phenomenon was invoked. This characteristic was the reason why it was called as the Ultimate Magic.
	~ Wn Ch.247​

 

[Elizhaa]

I also think Ciel would be supergenius.

 

[Celestial_Pegasus]

Actually, looking at Galactic Gladiator, he is rated as Nigh-Omniscient for being able to recreate the universe in exact detail, so you might have a case here. As i said before though the word is nigh omniscient not nigh omnipotence, Rimuru isn't all powerful.

 

[GLHF22]

I agree with nigh omniscient, but nigh omnipotence is a no, even most of 1A didnt have this

 

[Elizhaa]

Actually, looking at Galactic Gladiator, he is rated as Nigh-Omniscient for being able to recreate the universe in exact detail, so you might have a case here.
As i said before though the word is nigh omniscient not nigh omnipotence, Rimuru isn't all powerful.

Nigjh-omniscience, I can also agree with

 

[NeoSuperior]

Yea, that was a typo. I was talking about nigh-omniscient of course.

 

[NeoSuperior]

By the way, which sounds better to you? Since the official version mistranslated it, we need something more suitable to properly reflect what it does:

• Resist Holy-Demonic Attack
• Resist Holy & Demonic Attack
• Resist Chaos Attack
• Resist Chaotic Attack

All four would be viable translations for ÞüûÚ¡öµö╗µÆâÞÇɵǺ but what do you think?

The first one is the most literal translation.

The second one is a bit more optimized for simplicity of understanding.

The third and fourth one are based on how Beretta's (physical) race has been mentioned in LN vol. 6 to have changed from Arch Doll to Chaos Doll. The Kanji says ÞüûÚ¡öõ║║Õ¢ó [Holy-Demonic Doll] while the Katakana Òé½Òé¬Òé╣ÒâëÒâ╝Òâ½ [ka-o-su-dou-ru] reads as Chaos Doll, which basically establishes that ÞüûÚ¡ö, which is "Holy-Demonic", can be interpreted as "Chaos" or "Chaotic" in other places as well, hence why the resistance type with that combination can be like that. Of course the explanation would still be that it's a resistance for "holy & demonic" types of attacks.

It should be noted that "demonic" in the context of Slimeverse is basically just "magic" in general, as well as magicules. Ú¡ö is a very broad kanji that emcompasses not only most "demonic" things, but also most "magical" things, or rather, magic itself, aside from spirit magic and holy magic, is treated as something demonic in nature in general.

 

[Elizhaa]

The second option looks the best one, to me.

 

[Elizhaa]

Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken Minor Revision

 

[Elizhaa]

Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken Minor Revision

Inputs would be appreciated!

 

[NeoSuperior]

By the way, which sounds better to you? Since the official version mistranslated it, we need something more suitable to properly reflect what it does:

 

[Elizhaa]

The second option looks the best one, to me.

I known that we don't the WN version anymore. But in this case, since there both errors and ambiguity, I think the definition is closer to WN definitions

 

[NeoSuperior]

Yea, but I think in context of Beretta what I posted here is probably better though. "Hybrid" might actually not be quite right since it might be interpreted as ONLY working for combined effects, but perhaps not the seperated "pure" versions, which is an unwanted misunderstanding. In Japanese you could have both "Resist Holy-Demonic/Holy&Demonic Attack" and "Resist Chaos/Chaotic Attack" or "Resist Hybrid Attack" at the same time due to the Japanese "meaning + reading" system, but unfortunately English doesn't have a convenient feature like that. Though in our case, since a description comes alongside the ability/resistance, it gets explained anyway, so there is not much of a problem.

Still since LN vol. 6 properly established "Chaos" as the "fancy term" by the author to represent things in regards to being able to interact with both "Holy and Demonic" stuff. I think it's better to use that in comparison to "hybrid" at least.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Skills aren't magic, correct?

 

[Doomrider7]

Skills aren't magic, correct?

They require magicules/mana to work, but no they aren't magic. Think like the "Tales of..." franchise where your SP is used for both, but there's a distinct difference. Someone more knowledgeable should chime in soon, but that's my general understanding of things.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Ah, alright.

 

[NeoSuperior]

It really depends. Some things can be appliable both as either Magic or Skill like Black Lightning, appearently. I think the difference is that External Skills like Black/Dark Flame rely on internal magicule reserves to execute, unlike Magic or the Ogres' Mystic Arts which can use the surrounding magicules from the atmosphere to operate. Internal Skills on the other hand only require a meager amount of magicules or perhaps even none at all, like Magic Sense, Keen Smell or even Great Sage.

Another difference is that Magic can be used with only knowledge and magic circle and/or chant, though how a magic circle gets created hasn't really been explained at this point and even Rimuru using Icicle Lance is portrayed differently between manga and anime, though it can just be reasoned that even in the anime Rimuru is using a magic circle, but it's just created within Rimuru's own stomach. Rimuru also doesn't need a chant because of Great Sage's Chant Cancellation, but others do need to chant. Even Orc Diaster Geld needed to "quietly murmur something" to activate his healing magic.

Skills on the other hand don't need any chants whatsoever, but they can only be "learned" by engraving them within one's soul, which always gets accompanied by the Voice of the World announcing it. Learning new Skills also lowers one's maximum magicule capacity. Shuna escpacially "suffered" for it as one who obtained two unique skills which threw her back down twice after she finally reached A-Rank.

There are also Arts, which can only be learned through training, Holy Magic which is based on faith, and Spirit Magic based on interacting with or controlling SpiritsElementals.

Did that ruby text display correctly? I consider adding that stuff to the character profiles if it displays correctly. That would give people here the same "experience" as the Japanese readers of the LN get, for example:

Classification: SlimeViscous Organism, Demon SlimeDemonic Viscous Spirit Body

I'd like to get some feedback on that, if possible.

 

[OpMasada]

Yeah, I can see it, I think it's fine as it's just giving more explanation.

 

[NeoSuperior]

I'd still like some more feedback on this:

By the way, which sounds better to you? Since the official version mistranslated it, we need something more suitable to properly reflect what it does:

Also is OK to add Ruby texts to the profiles or not?