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Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken Discussion Thread 15

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Regarding Analytical prediction as i said US skill doesnt cover resistance to their surrounding, for example if Zegion use His US to turn something in Rimuru hand, say he turn a pen in Rimuru hand to a pencil, he likely can do it but he cannot turn Rimuru into anything, same case as analytical prediction i know we are talking about fiction and amongs nonsensical power in slime there is no such thing that far to the point you think the author doesnt care about anything he write
 
Yes, but predicting Rimuru means it works on Rimuru and not just the surroundings. In your example with Zegion, Rimuru doesn't even factor into his action.
 
Thats it, by predicting Rimuru Action there is nothing involving Rimuru resistance unless it future attack prediction which see Rimuru future, Analytical prediction is not absolute and as its name its just prediction, i mean can predict someone movement doesnt mean you see His future, in fact all of Hinata prediction doesnt makes Rimuru cannot block her attack nor make her able to Dodge/block all of Rimuru attack. Again its just prediction.
 
Except that resisting analytical prediction is very mich a thing and is even listed on the WN profiles. You haven't given any explanation for why Rimuru just not resisting it, is false.

So again, resisting analytical prediction is a thing, but Rimuru wasn't able to do so.
 
Saying Hinata Cannot use analytical prediction on Rimuru is the same as saying Great Sage cannot make strategy if Rimuru fought someone with ultimate skill in large scale war, yes Great Sage can make strategy but doesnt mean everything Will be according to the plan.
 
Except that Great Sage does that through pure intelligence, while Hinata specifically uses an ability for it. Also people resisting analytical prediction through analysis is also a thing that happens in fiction.
 
Rimuru couldn't have been awakened during his battle against the Farmus army. He needed the ÒÇîSoulsÒÇìof the defeated Farmus army in order to achieve evolution.

He was able to take out the twenty-thousand men army when unawakened.

What an absolute monster......

Thinking back to her battle with Rimuru, he didn't seem that capable back then. But there is also the possible explanation that he intentionally made a concession because the opponent was Hinata.

Would such a person be planning to kill her even to this day?

Even if he does hate Hinata to the bone, it is still quite unnatural for someone seeking revenge to invite her to a duel.

And even though his motives may be to remove the obstacles posed by Hinata and the Western Saints Church, Rimuru shouldn't strike first. If he is dumb enough to not know this, how is it possible for him to come up with the scheme against Farmus Kingdom?

With that being said, there may also be another reason.

It's quite strange, no matter how I think about it. Has the situation changed? Or perhaps, evolving to Demon Lord has deprived him of humanity——?

A human's mind can be easily corrupted by such immense power. For instance, Shizue put in much effort trying to suppress the power of Ifrit, whose enormous power can easily destroy a person. Moreover, the fact that Rimuru has awakened....... ——No, there shouldn't be such thing. It wouldn't make sense for him to says that he is on the human's side if that's the case...... Ruminas mentioned that Rimuru announced his desire to protect mankind. Had he lost his humanity, his talk of building an utopian city would be nothing but claptrap. There is still not enough information, Hinata thinks to herself. She believes there's still truth hidden behind all this, yet her ÒÇîMathematicianÒÇì cannot work out the right answer.
 
She begins to observe Rimuru. Now only Rimuru and herself remain there as Arno and the rest have gone somewhere else with their own opponents. Hinata starts to quietly analyze Rimuru using her Unique Skill ÒÇîMathematicianÒÇì. However, he is completely different from before. Rimuru's power after becoming a Demon Lord has become hard to measure.

His potential growth is truly huge. I'll get chills down my spine at even the thought of him becoming enemies with humans. Rimuru's power is immeasurable by Hinata's ÒÇîMathematicianÒÇì, meaning that he should either have a similar power cap as her, or greater. Upon thinking so, Hinata activates her unique skill ÒÇîUsurperÒÇì. This skill gives her the absolute advantage against an opponent who is stronger than her.

See? Mathematician doesnt work
 
Non of that supports your claims. There's nothing stating that Mathematician is pure intelligence and Mathematician does in fact work, it gives information about Rimuru, but it's not as easy as before.

All of this also ignores the fact that as I said, resisting analytical prediction that comes from pure intelligence is also a thing.

And by your logic resistance to analytical prediction should be removed from WN profiles.
 
Eh? I don't know if there is resistance to that IIRC Hinata precog work in WN but we consider that as inconsistency, since thats the only anti feats for Rimuru US user and thats happen on early chapter.

And nothing proof that mathematician is not Inteligence, i think thats enough evidence that mathematician gave Hinata some sort of inteligence
 
Also you have to remember that US user can give fake information about themselves, nothing proof that Hinata can analyze Rimuru.
 
That's why all I need to do is to cut off one of his arms. Hinata thinks to herself.

She won't kill Rimuru. The duel will be over if Rimuru is willing to admit Hinata as the victor. Yet Hinata has not been able to execute this plan.

Through his extraordinary control of dimension and body functions, Rimuru has seen through the pattern of Hinata's attack. What an incredible growth. But, these all have to do with body functions. You can't follow up with my level of skill.

His evolution is indeed astounding, yet in terms of techniques, he is just about the same as what she has experienced before. Even for a skill such as Hinata's ÒÇîUsurperÒÇì that can rob the opponent's skills, it can only make the user's body memorize the movements of the skill. In order to master the principles of these skills, the amount of repetitive training required would be so much as to cause one to faint. It seems to be the same case for Rimuru. Hinata sees a chance to win. For there is a difference in their experience on the battlefield. Rimuru is clearly lacking in that regard. Hinata decides to change her tactics as she realizes this in order to give her opponent the false sense of her attacks being random in speed.

This is the so called feinting.

She decides to toy Rimuru in the palm of her hands with the skill she accumulated through her rich experience——

Indeed Hinata sword Skill also a factor why she can On par with Rimuru in CQC
 
Moss's design is revealed (In case you don't know, he's one of the Demon Nobles and a subordinate of Testarossa. Also the Strongest Non-Primordial Demon)
Moss Slime
 
@GLHF22 You're still missing the point that even if mathematician is intelligence which btw you haven't proven, the burden of proof is on you to prove it since you're the one asserting it is, it doesn't change the fact that ppl can resist their moves being predicted by intelligence.

Honestly this argument is getting annoying, bottom line is we shouldn't add a bunch of resistances without further proof, the only reason it's ok for the WN is because we have multiple statements, the first of which makes it clear, no matter how power the ability is, it won't work on an ultimate skill user.

You're going through all these hoops to justify why Hinata did what she did when the simple answer is shown to us, that using mathematician she can predict Rimuru's attacks, occam's razor applies here.
 

Rimuru's power is immeasurable by Hinata's ÒÇîMathematicianÒÇì, meaning that he should either have a similar power cap as her, or greater. Upon thinking so, Hinata activates her unique skill ÒÇîUsurperÒÇì. This skill gives her the absolute advantage against an opponent who is stronger than her.
~ LN vol. 7​
This means that she can't analyse Rimuru himself, but his psychological behaviour pattern does not seem to be included in the protection. I have yet to see ANY proof whatsoever that the statement from Guy in vol. 6 includes protection against something as abstract as someone's thought patterns. I'd actually say it's wank to assume that it does rather than the opposite.

But if you insist that it really is covered, shouldn't US users also gain Madness Manipulation (type 3) resistance for, and I quote:


Limitations: Those who are capable of perceiving, understanding and/or experiencing that which is naturally extreme or incomprehensible should be able to ignore this. Likewise, unless there is evidence to suggest differently, beings whose physical forms are similarly complex or extreme in nature are likely to be unaffected by exposure to such a being.
If we assume them to be "incomprehensible" in terms of psychology like that, and considering US users CAN "comprehend" each other, shouldn't this resistance against type 3 madness extend to US users?
 
MrDrProfessorPatricio said:
Moss's design is revealed (In case you don't know, he's one of the Demon Nobles and a subordinate of Testarossa. Also the Strongest Non-Primordial Demon)
Moss Slime
Click to expand...
Looks like they decided to drop the excuse of it being his ability and just officialize him as a shota
 
Like Neo said, US user doesnt makes Unique skill cannot working at all, but it makes Unique skill cannot affect Them, and the fact that how Mathematician work is a proof that it never working on Rimuru because

first, it cannot analyze Rimuru

Second, Hinata prediction was proven doesnt true since Rimuru can block/Dodge and counter her attack

Third, Mathematician work by make simulation in her mind and then applied it on battle and thats no different than make a strategy for a war, so it never really affect Rimuru, what's Mathematician do is see how Rimuru fight with His sword then Hinata make a 10.000 simulation to fought him in equal ground.

Its just mechanic of US as Guy said in vol 6, Unique skill cannot affect US user at all but that doesnt mean it cannot working when US user around in fact Great Sage can still work and talking when US user around, great Sage does that through pure inteligence? But its still working isnt it? Then by your Logic Great Sage can work on US User.

where is stated mathematician work on Rimuru, If Hinata can really predict Rimuru attack then she definitely can defeat Rimuru, the fact that Hinata still lose is a proof that her prediction was wrong, because you are the one who said this was anti feat for US user then give me scan where is stated that mathematician work on Rimuru? When Hinata prediction was proven to be wrong
 
Saying that Mathematician work on US user its the same as said Mai Unique skill traveler work on Rimuru how it is work on Rimuru when It never involve not affect Rimuru?

Again Resisting Analytical prediction was completely different matter since As i said above US user doesnt makes Unique skill doesnt working when they around
 
@GLHF

I still don't understand what your explanation for Mathematician not involving Rimuru is. Hinata uses it to predict Rimuru's moves. She looks at what he is going to do and he follows her simulation exactly. How does that not involve Rimuru?

Anyway you're just saying the same thing over and over now, so I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree.
 
Because it just doesnt makes any sense, Im saying the same argument because you also repeating your argument, If ultimate skill able to makes someone cannot thinking then Great Sage Will never be able to talking nor tell Rimuru to not fight Milim, maybe i pick the wrong word, it does involve Rimuru but it does not Affect him, not do anything to him, mathematician just create a simulation to predict Rimuru attack, same thing like shuna create a barrier when Rimuru is around the barrier still there but it cannot do anything to Rimuru, and as i said again again and again US DOESNT MAKE UNIQUE SKILL CANNOT WORK WHEN THEY ARE AROUND THEM SAYING IT DISABLE UNIQUE SKILL TO WORKING IS WANK, AS EVEN IN WN MAI STILL ABLE TO USE HIS UNIQUE SKILL TRAVELER TO TELEPORT WHEN SHE FOUGHT RIMURU.

Im not mad just want you to see my point
 
No, you're just completely misinterpreting my points it seems. Anyway I already said I'm done with this debate.
 
Your point is "mathematician is work no matter what if it work its work" you just ignore the mechanics, by your Logic US user Disabled Unique skill when they are around and thats why i cannot agree with you.
 
The prediction is pure science, like physics magic. The key part of the process doesn't involve anything supernatural, similar to Megiddo.

Does being an Ultimate Skill user protect Rimuru from others predicting that he will "put his other foot forward next" when walking? Nowhere was the scope of Ultimate Skills stated to have such absurd effects - or anything in regards to non-supernatural effects (physical attack nullification aside, though that's a seperate ability to begin with).

I challenge anyone who claims otherwise to provide a scan that states anything remotely close to "protects against psycho-analysis".
 
Yeah thats why i put Milim as example, how can Rimuru predict that Milim Will like honey? Simply he look by her appearance and character and then predict that "since this demon lord is childish maybe give some sweet Will work on this child'
 
From what I'm gathering, [Mathematician] is being used as more of a buff than something that actively affects Rimuru. The analysis failed and from that she can surmise that he's at LEAST as strong as she is by way of simple guess work on what could have changed since their last duel and her ability to keep up with Rimuru and predict his attacks seemed less it affecting him and more Rimuru's lack of combat experience and overall sword skill compared to Hinata. Basically, Hinata can't use [Mathematician] on Rimuru so instead she uses it on herself to buff herself and bridge the power gap with her skill.

Weak, But Skilled vs Unskilled, But Strong

It's like that basically. She's reading Rimuru's moves not because Mathematician is actually doing anything, but because she buffed herself with it and is a better sword fighter. That was my reading of it all. Might need to review it, but that's what I gathered from Rimuru and Hinata's internal monologues.
 
Still missing the point, whether it's working on Rimuru directly or not, it's still working on him.

Prediction Simulation is an explicit ability of Mathematician, which she used whether directly to affect Rimuru or indirectly to buff herself like say idk boosting her intelligence or something to predict Rimuru's attacks.

Note that these interpretations you guys are giving are never said in story, all we see is Hinata using prediction simulation and through that predicted Rimuru's attacks, saying it's just boosting herself and such imo is just trying to avoid the fact that ultimate skills aren't as absolutely as you think.

Whether Hinata is analyzing Rimuru's psychology or some other such thing like boosting herself, the argument for adding a crap ton of resistances is that they are lower skills and it doesn't matter how those lowers skills are performed or how powerful they are, it will absolutely never work on an ultimate skill user regardless of whether it affects the user directly or indirectly.

This is what i take issue with, we shouldn't be handing out a dozen resistances based on something that hasn't been backed up, and is contradicted. The WN has 3 statements confirming that unique skills don't work on ultimate skills users, the first of which explictly says it doesn't matter how powerful the skill is, it won't work. The LN doesn't have that yet.

Anyway i am done, not gonna argue this anymore.
 
The way I understand it, it's because Melt Slash / Disintegration deals conceptual damage hence Raphael's statement about being able to regenerate from Melt Slash means Rimuru would be able to regenerate from conceptual damage which iirc would be mid-godly, or rather... wouldn't it be high-godly conceptual damage gets past mid-godly?

I guess that'd be a bit much though to be gained through such an effect chain and would instead need some more... concrete statements, so I don't think this will get anywhere, though maybe mixing mid-godly with Resistance to Conceptual Manipulation would do the trick.

Though I guess mid-godly itself might need more statements as well... not sure. Let's wait for some other opinions first.
 
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