Tatsumaki vs Jean Grey (3-8-1)

[RoTt35]

Tatsumaki vs Jean Grey (FOX)​

Speed is equalized, Jean is on her first key (Base) with her High 6-A/Class Y end, both in character, initial distance of 20 meters and the battle takes place in New York City.
I don't know how this is going to turn out, I hope that well

Tatsumaki: 3 (@KrazyKazoo, @Kachon123, @Recon1511)

Jean Grey: 8 (@BEASTHEART880, @Maverick_Zero_X, @C2_of_Omegon, @Colonel_Krukov, @Harith0cell, @Confluctor, @MARVEL_Future_Fight_Gamer, @CiscoTheSoto)

Inconclusive: 1 (@TauanVictor)

 

[RoTt35]

Bump

 

[Coomandar]

Tatsu AP stomps

 

[KrazyKazoo]

Hmmm this one is tough. I'd say Tatsu would win with mid to high diff, mainly struggling from Phoenix's hax abilities. Though given her ability and complete willingness to yank asteroids out of space, dislocate continents, and use all of it as weaponry, I'd say she'd end up winning in the long run.

 

[RoTt35]

Tatsu AP stomps

Yes, while Jean has a massive advantage in LS and also has her hax

Though given her ability and complete willingness to yank asteroids out of space, dislocate continents, and use all of it as weaponry, I'd say she'd end up winning in the long run.

If Tatsumaki tries to throw an asteroid Jean can counter with higher LS, how does "dislocate continents" work?

 

[KrazyKazoo]

Yes, while Jean has a massive advantage in LS and also has her hax

If Tatsumaki tries to throw an asteroid Jean can counter with higher LS, how does "dislocate continents" work?

Tatsu's general attack strategy is just more aggressive and violent, especially against other "espers". Even with Jean's higher LS, I think she'd get outplayed by Tatsu eventually. If they weren't in-character, it'd be a different story, but FRA, Tatsu wins this one.

 

[RoTt35]

Jean's general attack strategy is also aggressive since the only time she didn't hold back she instantly obliterated Apocalypse's force shields while restraining him with TK and then completely disintegrated him

 

[RoTt35]

Bump

 

[Qawsedf234]

AP

• Torando: Notably upscales from a 254 Petaton and 5.68 Exaton feat
• Jean: Upscales from a 672 Petaton feat

Tornado massively upscales from a feat that is 8.45x better than what Jean upscales from. Even with the upscaling Jean gets, I doubt it can bridge the amount since Tornado has a much better scaling chain

Lifting Strength

• Tornado: Lifted 1.15558624e+16 kilograms
• Jean: Upscales to a 1e+24 kilogram rating

Jean is 86 million times stronger than Tornado. Meaning that Tornado's main method of attack, that being overpowering the person with TK and twisting, is more or less completely useless in this fight.

Hax

• Power Nullification: Tornado's power null can be overcome if you're strong enough and she never used it on Neuron Psykos, making it questionable if she can use it on Jean
• Extrasensory Perception: Tornado should be able to track Jean with very minimal effort

Now however... well we get to the part where Tornado has no relevant resistances

• Jean's mind manipulation: Tornado is a powerful fighter, but has absolutely no examples of resistance against mental attacks in any capacity. Jean can control what her senses are, what her memories are and can directly attack her mind. Any degree of mental attack from Jean is more or less an automatic victory at the moment since Tornado just cannot resist mental attacks.

So in the end the fight goes a few ways

• Tornado with her superior AP would eventually break through Jean's shield and kill her. She would have to do it with thrown objects or forceful applications of psionic power, she's not capable of restraining Jean
• Jean attacks Tornado's mind and immediately wins

Option 2 relies on Jean thinking once and Option 1 relies on Tornado ramping up to the point where she can punch through Jean's shields.

All in all I think Jean's win condition is just infinitely easier to achieve. Tornado just has no counter to Jean making her fall asleep or just mentally dominating her.

 

[RoTt35]

So, this match would be a stomp?

 

[Qawsedf234]

The only way Tornado wins is if she instantly went full force and banked on that attack breaking Jean's barrier.

Jean just needs to make Tornado fall asleep. Its a stomp in the sense that Tornado can win with AP but has no counters to Jean's telepathy.

 

[RoTt35]

I see, but when the match is finished can it be added to the profiles?

 

[RoTt35]

Bump

 

[BEASTHEART8800]

Well I'll vote Jean for Q's reasons

 

[Kachon123]

if she instantly went full force and banked on that attack breaking Jean's barrier.

Like this?

 

[RoTt35]

I think an Inconclusive could also be a reasonable end, since Tatsumaki stomps with her AP while Jean stomps with her abilities (Deconstruction and Mind Hax)

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

I lean towards Jean due to her telepathy and her willingness to use it. Jean's nice but that just results in her using her TP to just end the fight with as little collateral and fuss as possible if she can.

 

[TauanVictor]

50/50. Tatsumaki AP stomps or Jean HAX/LS stomps.

I vote for Incon.

 

[Kachon123]

Voting Tatsumaki. She wins more times than not imo. 6 or 7/10.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Like this?

Yes and no. Tornado was holding back against everyone she fought up until she was clear to go full force against Psykos. While Jean is not as strong as Tornado, she's also not so weak that Tornado can no dif through her shield. She also can't just stunlock Jean with her TK and can still be easily put down with mental attacks.

While she has a wincon through superior AP, I don't think that's enough to get around Jean just making her fall asleep or just mentally shutting her down like a weaker telepath like Xavier has done.

 

[Kachon123]

she's also not so weak that Tornado can no dif through her shield.

She literally is. The difference in AP is over 8x when a one-shot in vs matches is 7.5x.

 

[Qawsedf234]

She literally is.

I mean she is, but not when she isn't going full force. Remember that Tornado is in-character and in-character she's not some hyper bloodlusted death machine who fights efficiently as possible. She holds back and paces herself and only goes all out when she feels its needed. She didn't go all out against Boros' ship, she didn't go all out against the Octopus, she didn't go all out against the monster above the MA base, she didn't go all out against Psykos and she only went all out against Neuron Psykos when everyone was safe.

In character I don't see her breaching Jean's automatic defenses without actually putting in effort. On the other hand Jean thinking once ends the fight. The latter is a much more consistent win condition than the former in my view when both are in character.

 

[Kachon123]

I mean she is, but not when she isn't going full force. Remember that Tornado is in-character and in-character she's not some hyper bloodlusted death machine who fights efficiently as possible. She holds back and paces herself and only goes all out when she feels its needed. She didn't go all out against Boros' ship, she didn't go all out against the Octopus, she didn't go all out against the monster above the MA base, she didn't go all out against Psykos and she only went all out against Neuron Psykos when everyone was safe.

In character I don't see her breaching Jean's automatic defenses without actually putting in effort. On the other hand Jean thinking once ends the fight. The latter is a much more consistent win condition than the former in my view when both are in character.

Tatsumaki can tell how strong someone is. She has no reason to hold back unless she has a reason. She always goes for overkill. I don't think I even need to pull scans from all of her fights. The only outliers are:

Gyoro Gyoro- Tatsumaki was holding back and didn't kill it immediately due to her wanting to find the real body, and once she did, she went straight for the kill
Psykorochi- She was protecting the heroes, and once she finished saving them, she killed Psykorochi.

 

[Qawsedf234]

She always goes for overkill.

Then explain why she:

• Didn't instantly pulled down Boros' ship
• Didn't instantly killed every monster they saw above the MA
• Lifted the Octopus rather than instantly kill it

She wouldn't instantly kill Jean, because that's not in her character. Jean putting her out with telepathy is and its not something Tornado can react to.

Tornado also has to launch stuff at Jean to actually damage her. Her TK grip can't get passed Jean's superior lifting strength

Gyoro Gyoro- Tatsumaki was holding back and didn't kill it immediately due to her wanting to find the real body, and once she did, she went straight for the kill

She didn't even realize Gyoro Gyoro was fake until after that portion. Saying that Psykos was "Trying to trick her" and only later on located her real body. So this point doesn't work.

Psykorochi- She was protecting the heroes, and once she finished saving them, she killed Psykorochi.

I mentioned that.

she only went all out against Neuron Psykos when everyone was safe

Tornado wouldn't go full force against Jean from the jump, only later on. Which is enough wiggle room for her to be telepathically one tapped.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

To support Qawsedf's argument it is explicitly stated that Tatsumaki rarely exerts herself too much.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Though to clarify I will say that if the fight lasts anywhere near as long as say, Evil Eye or Psykos Jean just gets atomized by Tornado chucking a bunch of rocks at her. She has no recourse and Tornado has far better displays of omnidirectional attack patterns and as soon as her grip fails I see her just doing other stuff Jean would struggle to counter in her base incarnation.

I just personally think telepathy is to easy of a win con while both are in-character. Even bloodlusted Jean may still win that quickdraw since she could think before Tornado move a limb for an attack.

 

[Kachon123]

To support Qawsedf's argument is explicitly stated that Tatsumaki rarely exerts herself too much.

Wrong. Fubuki says that Tatsumaki rarely exerts herself that much. Enough to take out beings on the level of Gyoro, as it is a Dragon level threat.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

Wrong. Fubuki says that Tatsumaki rarely exerts herself that much. Enough to take out beings on the level of Gyoro, as it is a Dragon level threat.

Tomayto, tomahto lol. Point is she won’t be inclined to use the full extent of her High 6-A AP right off the bat.

 

[Kachon123]

Tomayto, tomahto lol. Point is she won’t be inclined to use the full extent of her High 6-A AP right off the bat.

That scan doesn't help either your or Qaws' argument. Fubuki saying that it's rare for Tatsumaki to exert that much power isn't due to your headcanon that she would for some reason use 7-B power against a 6-C person. It's due to Tatsumaki not going up against people that level.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

That scan doesn't help either your or Qaws' argument. Fubuki saying that it's rare for Tatsumaki to exert that much power isn't due to your headcanon that she would for some reason use 7-B power against a 6-C person. It's due to Tatsumaki not going up against people that level.

Eh? What’s this babbling about Tatsumaki using 7-B power against a 6-C character? When did I say that?

My only assertion was that Tatsu isn’t one to immediately use her full power.

 

[Kachon123]

My only assertion was that Tatsu isn’t one to immediately use her full power.

She has never used her full power yet in the story. She only uses enough power to defeat her opponent.

It's just like Saitama. He wouldn't use a 4-A punch against a Tiger level threat, and if someone were to use that to make the argument that Saitama doesn't go all out immediately would be false.

 

[Maverick_Zero_X]

She has never used her full power yet in the story. She only uses enough power to defeat her opponent.

It's just like Saitama. He wouldn't use a 4-A punch against a Tiger level threat, and if someone were to use that to make the argument that Saitama doesn't go all out immediately would be false.

That Saitama analogy’s cool and all but you should address Qawsedf’s recent points. He cited instances where Tatsu doesn’t insta go full throttle and you haven’t addressed them yet afaik:

https://vsbattles.com/threads/tatsumaki-vs-jean-grey-2-1-1.140729/post-5021518

Until then I’m voting Jean FRA via Telepathy. Her win condition seems easier to achieve.

 

[Kachon123]

• Didn't instantly pulled down Boros' ship

Outlier

• Didn't instantly killed every monster they saw above the MA

She quite literally says she's not going to protect the heroes and let them deal with the fodders themselves. She was fighting Evil Eye, where she did in fact decimate him instantly.

• Lifted the Octopus rather than instantly kill it

If you're referring to Hundred-Eyes Octopus, she lifted it up, so she can crush it in one go. Very bad example.

6

 

[C2_of_Omegon]

I'm going with Jean. She's just seems far more willing to use her hax, as she inherently dislikes needless conflict. Plus, as been pointed, it's far easier for her to do.

 

[Recon1511]

Tatsumaki can read the power level of her opponents and there is no reason she would hold back if she wants to win, nothing stops her from flicking her finger and one shotting Jean inmediatly.

Voting Tatsumaki.

 

[RoTt35]

If Tatsumaki goes straight for the win, Jean can also do the same thing as she did against Apocalypse, which was the only real fight she had, using a combination of mind hax and deconstruction

 

[Colonel_Krukov]

Voting Jean via her mind hax being much quicker.

 

[RoTt35]

Bump

 

[TauanVictor]

Voting Jean via her mind hax being much quicker.

What would be the reasoning to prove that it is faster, though?

 

[Recon1511]

This seems more inconclusive than anything if it just boils down to who one shots the other faster in an speed equalized match lol, might change my vote to incon...