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The Tall Man has come to conquer Gotham City, followed by the rest of the world. Batman discovers his weakness to cold and, unable to best the Tall Man himself, seeks help from Mr. Freeze. Although he's far from a saint, Victor certainly is against the idea of the entire city and than the planet being turned into a nightmarish hellscape, especially since he and Nora would perish with everyone else.

This is an all out war between the Tall Man's forces and the one man army of Mr. Freeze. Both sides will have 24 hours of preparation. Freeze and the man formerly known as Jebediah Morningside will have access to all their equipment. Can Freeze somehow find a way to defeat the tens of thousands of copies of the Tall Man along with his vast armies of zombies (some of which have weapons such as chainsaws) and sentinels (including giant ones that can destroy skyscrapers)?

Yes, I am aware that Freeze is on a far higher tier, but you have to remember, the Tall Man has tens of thousands of copies of himself as well as vast hordes of undead minions and living flying spheres with hi-tech weaponry in them, including giant ones that can level skyscrapers, so if he goes all out, he can potentially win through sheer attrition. If need be, this war can, and probably will, last a week or more, with both sides having moments where they retreat to try and surmise the situation and further equip themselves.

Current vote tally:

Freeze: The Wright Way, InfiniteDay, Elixir, 00Potato, Ican'tthinkof1goodname
TM: HeadlessKramerGeoff777, Gewsbumpz_dude, Cropfist, Robot972
Inconclusive: Scourge-8
 
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With the kind of prep that Tall Man has, I'm not sure if he stands a chance. I'm just saying tho since I'm just reading it from his profile. Plus his Acausality ensures Mr. Freeze's large scale AoE attacks aren't going to be useful when there's always another version of him take the Tall Man's place.
 
The win conditions here for Freeze are to kill them all one by one or travel to the Tall Man's realm using the spacegates and freeze the realm over completely. Tall Man comes from the Red Planet, a realm with higher gravity and a very hot climate. It is because of his realm's heat that he is extremely weak to the cold. Even being next to an ice cream truck with the back doors open causes him great discomfort. Freeze is much stronger and his entire motif and powerset consists of what acts as Tall Man's kryptonite. The battle should actually be more of a war that will be long and drawn out, only ending when either Freeze finally falls, the Tall Man's army of thousands of clones of himself and thousands of other minions finally runs out, or Freeze is able to use his intelligence to locate one of the spacegates and use it to access the Red Planet and freeze the whole realm over. Like I said, this can go on for a week or more.
 
With the kind of prep that Tall Man has, I'm not sure if he stands a chance. I'm just saying tho since I'm just reading it from his profile. Plus his Acausality ensures Mr. Freeze's large scale AoE attacks aren't going to be useful when there's always another version of him take the Tall Man's place.
Should I count this as a vote for Tall Man?
 
I don't know this Tall Man character and I'm not familiar with his abilities, but it feels like a stomp for him with that much prep. And if you take that prep away from him, he gets stomped in reverse where Mr. Freeze just chills in one place while a massive ice storm destroys Tall Man and his army.
 
Freeze can't win there is always another Tall Man he gets overwhelmed.
There IS a finite number of Tall Men. Freeze is on a much higher tier and Tall Man is extremely weak to cold. In an alternate ending of the first film, he's killed by being sprayed with a fire extinguisher, which causes his head to explode. I will count that as a vote for Tall Man though.
 
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Voting for Mr. Freeze for the reasons above

Yes, I know in the end they went for the Tall Men, but the reasoning is still Win condition. The only thing that would put this into question for me is Mr. Freeze’s stamina.
 
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I do believe that the Tall Man could eventually overwhelm Mr. Freeze, there are thousands of him scattered across all of time and space he is bound to eventually tire him out somehow especially with his vast army. It would be a war of attrition.

I guess I'll be voting for The Tall Man.
 
A direct assault might not be the best option for the Tall Man. A common tactic of his is to assume the identity of a woman and seduce male opponents before killing them. If he finds out about Nora, he might be able to do that (assuming Victor, with his vast intellect, does not catch on to the trick, considering the fact that he knows Nora is in cryostasis, and his pet Polar Bears do not use their sense of smell to realize it isn't her). If the Tall Man releases the virus he used in the final movie, he could kill Freeze by removing his helmet, causing his head to explode. On the flipside, Victor could use the Dimension Forks to access the Red Planet (Tall Man's realm) and use the city wide freezing machine he invented to freeze the Red Planet over (assuming he can actually transport that giant thing that seems to be rooted in his lair).
 
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It seems more likely that Tall Man would be able to overwhelm Mr Freeze before he can freeze them all, but then again I don't know his character
 

Promestein

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I don't see at all how Mr. Freeze can win. Tall Man fights through battles of attrition, and uses sheer numbers to his advantage. Mr. Freeze can exploit a specific weakness, but that opens up another form of attack, and another Tall Man will appear shortly after. I'm honestly not sure if it's fair; Mr. Freeze has no way to win, really.
 
I don't see at all how Mr. Freeze can win. Tall Man fights through battles of attrition, and uses sheer numbers to his advantage. Mr. Freeze can exploit a specific weakness, but that opens up another form of attack, and another Tall Man will appear shortly after. I'm honestly not sure if it's fair; Mr. Freeze has no way to win, really.
Well, what if he were to use a device to cover Gotham in coldness to keep Tall Man out while he focused on finding a way to use the Dimension Forks to reach the Red Planet (Tall Man's realm) and bring a freezing machine there to freeze over the entire realm? I'm pretty sure freeing over his entire realm would kill him for good. Victor has the skills to make such a machine.
 

Promestein

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The Tall Men in Ravager do not seem to be contained in the Red Planet. They're in a white plane. I doubt he could freeze the ENTIRE REALM, and there's also the issue of the Tall Man simply using one of his many other powers to screw with him. Illusions and so on.
 
The Tall Men in Ravager do not seem to be contained in the Red Planet. They're in a white plane. I doubt he could freeze the ENTIRE REALM, and there's also the issue of the Tall Man simply using one of his many other powers to screw with him. Illusions and so on.
Well, in that case, he would have to kill them all one by one. To be fair, Victor is physically much stronger than him and his powerset and AOE could give the Tall Man quite a bit of trouble, but yeah, with tens of thousands of chances, the Tall Man will almost certainly eventually either use his special powers to get the drop on him or manage to blast him with the giant Sentinals. Technically, victory would not be completely impossible for Freeze, but it would be very unlikely at best. I was wondering if him being on a much higher tier than Tall Man and having a powerset based entirely around his primary weakness would even things out. It seemed fair enough at the time.
 
So, how do we deal with threads where victory is technically possible for both combatants but it's still like 80% likely one side will win due to sheer attrition? Is it considered a stomp or not? Technically, Mr. Freeze could be capable of theoritically killing Tall Man thousands of times over since he has a huge AP and speed advantage and is almost the embodiement of his primary weakness, but due to the giant skyscraper leveling sentinels and TM's more crafty and underhanded tactics and powers, that is extremely unlikely to happen. This certainly wouldn't be an EASY victory for TM, but it's still by far the most likely outcome.
 
Technically, victory would be possible for Freeze, albeit highly unlikely. If no one objects, I'm gonna look for someone who can add a final vote to end this. It is currently 3-6 in TM's favor.
 
I don't know if this needs to be pointed out, but I am not equalizing speed. Tall Man has better movement but Freeze has much better combat and reaction speed. Most of Freeze's attacks would clear the distance at a faster rate, with the one exception being in regards to the lasers the sentinels fire. The biggest threat by far is the giant sentinels. Freeze would have to rely on creating icy storms to deal with the giant sentinels. The final scene in Ravager shows that TM has at least 5 of them in total. All of them are capable of one-shotting skyscrapers. Victor Fries (Mr. Freeze's real name) would have to create massive icy storms to keep them away from him.

Advantages:

Freeze: AP, durability, combat and reaction speed, range, has a powerset based entirely around Tall Man's primary weakness.

Tall Man: Attrition, massive army of zombies armed with chainsaws, flying spheres with drills and lasers, clones of himself, and monstrous insects, intelligence, far more varied in his powers and abilities and has ways of using them in strategic and rather unconventional ways.
 
Current tally:

Freeze: Elixir, 00Potato, Ican'tthinkof1goodname, InfiniteDay

Tall Man: Gewsbumpz_dude, Cropfist, Robot972, Scourge-8

Unclear: Ecstasy_Amphetamine, GojiBoyForever, and Promestein seem to believe TM would win, but they have not made it clear yet if they are actually voting for him or if they are arguing that this is a stomp match in his favor that should be closed.

So, it's officially tied, but could change to 7 in TM's favor if these three make their votes official. Personally, I don't see it as a stomp due to how Freeze does have several advantages. I would also like to remind people that both of these guys have trump cards that could make things terrible for the other. Freeze has his ice storm and city wide freezing device that can both wipe out all the Tall Men, insect monsters, zombies, and flying spheres in the area and keep anymore from coming as long as either of them are around and active, giving Freeze ample time to try and find a way to deal with him permanently while they cannot enter Gotham, provided he is also able to find a way to keep the citizens unharmed from his own storms/device (I think between him and Batman they could somehow find a way to either evacuate the city or otherwise develop a holding area to keep the citizens safe) . Tall Man has his fleet of at least five gigantic skyscraper destroying spheres that all have enough power to oneshot Freeze- provided they are able to get past the previously mentioned ice storm and freezing machine. TM does have that virus of his, but Freeze's helmet should keep him safe in the unlikely event that it is unleashed. Tall Man could use his powers to disguise himself as Nora and trick Freeze, provided he can find out about her before Freeze uses either of the previously mentioned trump cards. Like I said, this isn't really a "battle" but a war. This could go on for weeks. Any votes anyone wants to change or make official?
 
Alright, from the IMDB Phantasm FAQ (Link): "
What is the meaning of The Tall Man's reaction to cold when he walks past Reggie's truck?
As it is depicted in the movie, this scene can be interpreted in two opposite ways:

  • The Tall Man likes cold and enjoys the feeling of it. That is why he pauses in apparent ecstasy. After experiencing this momentaneous pleasure, he keeps on walking through Main Street.

  • The Tall Man hates cold. He is deterred by it, stunned, even like causing him a measure of pain. His hands come up in a warding off gesture. There is a pained slowness to his motions, as though the mist is literally freezing his limbs. That he breaths it in only makes things that much worse for him. Only as the mist dissipates can the Tall Man break free of its effect and continue on his way. His priority at that point seems to be to get away from the truck.

However, an alternate ending where Mike kills the Tall Man with a fire extinguisher proves this second theory to be the correct one. This deleted scene can be found in the Anchor Bay Region 2 Special Edition of Phantasm. The Tall Man's unnatural sensitivity to cold can be explained due to the fact that he comes from a very hot planet with extremely high temperatures.

Also, in Phantasm III: Lord of the Dead, we learn through Mike that The Tall Man does in fact hate cold, it is harmful for him and can even destroy him.

Anyway, the idea of The Tall Man disliking the cold was not a concept developed for the sequels, but created for the first movie. Because the ice cream truck scene remained in the film and the fire extinguisher death was removed, the concept was never completed and what we, as an audience, are left with is a very ambiguous scene, one where you can draw your own conclusion."

You can see his reaction to the cold here.

Also, at the end of the final film, the characters say they are going to travel north because of his weakness to the cold, meaning that he cannot even follow people to the northern parts of the world due to his weakness to cold. Also keep in mind that a fire extinguisher, the mist from an ice cream truck, and the northern parts of the world are nothing compared to the low temperatures Mr Freeze can put out.
 

The_Wright_Way

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I mean, I'm against using anything that was left on the cutting room floor like that, but if it's stated in the sequels, it should be fine.
 
I take the silence as a yes. Anyway, like I said several times before, this is NOT a vs "battle", this is a vs WAR. On one side we have the evil alien entity which stole the body of Jebediah Morningside and created a mass produced army of clones of him numbering in the tens of thousands (though only one version of him can be present in our world at a time), along with his army of zombie dwarves armed with chainsaws, insect monsters, and flying spheres. On the other side, we have Mr. Freeze and his Polar Bears. Freeze can probably hold off the Tall Man's forces long enough for the city to be evacuated, after which he can safely freeze it over to the point the army (with the exception of the sentinel spheres, which being mechanical in nature should not be affected by the cold unless Freeze produces ice storms powerful enough to interfere with their circuitry) can't even continue to enter Gotham, which would make it a safe haven for Freeze where he can return to and use while he plans his next moves during the war (provided he continues to use ice storms). He can try to create more weaponry there to combat the army. The zombies and insect monsters shouldn't give him and his Polar Bears much trouble. The silver Sentinels are likely to pose a strong threat to the bears but only a moderate threat to Freeze himself. The Tall Man himself isn't really a physical threat to Freeze but can use shapeshifting power to appear to Freeze as Nora to try and trick him and attack him off guard. The Polar Bears might be able to see through the trick given their sense of smell, and Freeze might be smart enough to not fall for it with their help. The biggest problems Freeze would have here with winning the war are the giant Sentinels that can destroy skyscrapers in one blast, and the fragility of his helmet. If his helmet is broken, he only has one hour to get back to Gotham before his own sickness kills him. He would also be left with his head as a big fat target for any of the Tall Man's minions to attack. Also, if Tall Man unleashes his virus and this happens, Freeze will be left a dead man walking, since there is no way to cure the virus once it gets into your system.
 
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I take the silence as a yes. Anyway, like I said several times before, this is NOT a vs "battle", this is a vs WAR. On one side we have the evil alien entity which stole the body of Jebediah Morningside and created a mass produced army of clones of him numbering in the tens of thousands (though only one version of him can be present in our world at a time), along with his army of zombie dwarves armed with chainsaws, insect monsters, and flying spheres. On the other side, we have Mr. Freeze and his Polar Bears. Freeze can probably hold off the Tall Man's forces long enough for the city to be evacuated, after which he can safely freeze it over to the point the army (with the exception of the sentinel spheres, which being mechanical in nature should not be affected by the cold unless Freeze produces ice storms powerful enough to interfere with their circuitry) can't even continue to enter Gotham, which would make it a safe haven for Freeze where he can return to and use while he plans his next moves during the war (provided he continues to use ice storms). He can try to create more weaponry there to combat the army. The zombies and insect monsters shouldn't give him and his Polar Bears much trouble. The silver Sentinels are likely to pose a strong threat to the bears but only a moderate threat to Freeze himself. The Tall Man himself isn't really a physical threat to Freeze but can use shapeshifting power to appear to Freeze as Nora to try and trick him and attack him off guard. The Polar Bears might be able to see through the trick given their sense of smell, and Freeze might be smart enough to not fall for it with their help. The biggest problems Freeze would have here with winning the war are the giant Sentinels that can destroy skyscrapers in one blast, and the fragility of his helmet. If his helmet is broken, he only has one hour to get back to Gotham before his own sickness kills him. He would also be left with his head as a big fat target for any of the Tall Man's minions to attack. Also, if Tall Man unleashes his virus and this happens, Freeze will be left a dead man walking, since there is no way to cure the virus once it gets into your system.
What stops Freeze from you know, freezing him.
 
What stops Freeze from you know, freezing him.
Freeze could freeze him, but every time he is killed, one of his tens of thousands of copies will pop up to replace him. Considering his weakness to cold, I don't believe it is possible to freeze him without killing his current body. Freeze would have to do that tens of thousands of times over. Either that or travel to the Red Planet and somehow either locate and kill his true self, if he can even find it in the first place, or freeze over the entire realm. The only other possible ways to permanently stop the Tall Man would be to either travel around the world and destroy all the Dimension Forks to stop him from accessing Earth, or find a way to use the Dimension Forks to travel back in time to stop Morningside from using the original Dimensional Fork in the first place, thereby altering history so the Tall Man never gained access to Earth in the first place. And how the Forks work is completely random. Also, unless Freeze or Batman have learned of the Dimension Forks during Tall Man's time in Gotham, Freeze shouldn't even know they exist. Even if he does find out about them and access the Red Planet (not unreasonable to assume given his considerable genius intelligence), it would be pretty hard to freeze an ENTIRE REALM over. His greatest feat is freezing a city. His best options for winning the war are to either literally kill TM tens of thousands of times over (in fairness, Freeze can certainly oneshot any one of the tens of thousands of Tall Men given their AP gap and the fact that TM is so incredibly weak to cold) or find a way to build a souped up version of the city freezing machine that can freeze the entire realm and somehow transport it through the Dimension Forks.
 
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Freeze could freeze him, but every time he is killed, one of his tens of thousands of copies will pop up to replace him. Considering his weakness to cold, I don't believe it is possible to freeze him without killing his current body. Freeze would have to do that tens of thousands of times over. Either that or travel to the Red Planet and somehow either locate and kill his true self, if he can even find it in the first place, or freeze over the entire realm. The only other possible ways to permanently stop the Tall Man would be to either travel around the world and destroy all the Dimension Forks to stop him from accessing Earth, or find a way to use the Dimension Forks to travel back in time to stop Morningside from using the original Dimensional Fork in the first place, thereby altering history so the Tall Man never gained access to Earth in the first place. And how the Forks work is completely random. Also, unless Freeze or Batman have learned of the Dimension Forks during Tall Man's time in Gotham, Freeze shouldn't even know they exist. Even if he does find out about them and access the Red Planet (not unreasonable to assume given his considerable genius intelligence), it would be pretty hard to freeze an ENTIRE REALM over. His greatest feat is freezing a city. His best options for winning the war are to either literally kill TM tens of thousands of times over (in fairness, Freeze can certainly oneshot any one of the tens of thousands of Tall Men given their AP gap and the fact that TM is so incredibly weak to cold) or find a way to build a souped up version of the city freezing machine that can freeze the entire realm and somehow transport it through the Dimension Forks.
What if he, you know, freezes them all. He's frozen Gotham over multiple times.
 
What if he, you know, freezes them all. He's frozen Gotham over multiple times.
That could work, but again he would have to do it one at a time thousands of times over. Only one Tall Man can be present in our world at a time. He would have to blast him at least 20000 times on end. That would take 10 days if he killed one Tall Man every minute. They don't pop up instantly after the previous is killed. It takes at least a minute or so. Fortunately, Freeze can use an ice storm to drive the army away during times when he needs food/sleep or to recharge his weapons. Like I said, this is a war, not a battle. After he is ready to continue, he can dispatch his ice storm and resume the process. The question is if he can really do this all the way through without being killed.
 
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That could work, but again he would have to do it one at a time thousands of times over. Only one Tall Man can be present in our world at a time. He would have to blast him at least 20000 times on end. That would take 10 days if he killed one Tall Man every minute. They don't pop up instantly after the previous is killed. It takes at least a minute or so. Fortunately, Freeze can use an ice storm to drive the army away during times when he needs food/sleep or to recharge his weapons. Like I said, this is a war, not a battle. After he is ready to continue, he can dispatch his ice storm and resume the process. The question is if he can really do this all the way through without being killed.
Multi-city block level freezing is enough.
 
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Can I change my vote to incon?I feel like Mr.Freeze’s AP advantage is to much for The Tall man but that the Tall Man’s haxes are to much for Freeze.
 
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