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LARGE PLANET DOWNGRADE.
Yes.
Yes.
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Superman (Post-Crisis) Possible tier change
- Thread starter SSJRyu1
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Yes, it was in Brad Meltzer's Justice League run.The Living Tribunal1 said:
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Alright Ant, I understand, but I have a question. Normally, characters normally have to do cross universal travel to reach that level speed. What makes say, Saint Seiya, Sailor Moon, or DBS different to get it the same unlike DC?
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Yeah, but if they make a clear distinction, why is it scaled to their travel speed. And didn't Batman only say that WE had better combat speed, which would be an up for her and not a down for Supes?
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Well, Marvel and DC are the ones that I am most familiar with, and as such can gauge that, for example, Hal Jordan and Quasar do not magically change from regular athletic humans into MFTL+ movement speed just because they can fly at those speeds.
However, I do not remotely have knowledge of, or the time to edit, all of the profiles for all of the different fictions within this wiki, and in addition they recurrently have different rules for this than western comics do.
Hence, I have written the instruction that there should preferably be proof that combat speed and flight speed are treated interchangeably for a certain fictional franchise within the speed page, but cannot make sure that it is followed on a widespread scale.
However, I do not remotely have knowledge of, or the time to edit, all of the profiles for all of the different fictions within this wiki, and in addition they recurrently have different rules for this than western comics do.
Hence, I have written the instruction that there should preferably be proof that combat speed and flight speed are treated interchangeably for a certain fictional franchise within the speed page, but cannot make sure that it is followed on a widespread scale.
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Alright. At least I still have Flash and Pre-Crisis Superman to be my comic champions. Bottom line is, I understand.
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So let me recapitulate, I was busy all the day: the vaporizing the galaxy thing is considered outlier and the size of the anti-sun is unknown, so no upgrade nor downgrade for now, until OBD accept it, Am I right? and what about the femtosecond thing?
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Why would the femtosecond thing be inconsistent? This is post crisis we're talking about, not New 52.
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Thanks for posting the feats Ant.
Couple issues with the 50 supernova sun eater.
1. The sun eater is said to be the size of a Nebula so theoretically the explosion would be spread over the size of a Nebula initially, thus superman would only be hit by a tiny fraction of it, like negligent.
http://i.imgur.com/SF9SrB6.jpg
And we know he was not in or on the core to.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/139138/3020927-2609411-17.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11125/111253496/4816729-1014199553-Super.jpg
2. They use a Pre-crisis picture of a sun eaters core to try and scale the size of this sun eater, despite it being contradicted by the fact the sun eater here is specifically said to be nebula size. Also it is against the scaling rules for Marvel and DC for us to allow a Pre-Crisis and Post-Crisis cross scaling for size.
3. Superman states he was hit by the electro magnetic shockwave of the explosion, not the main part, the ball of radiation, which would incinerate him instantly. So that again is another reason to doubt he could take a significant portion of the explosion, when he had to run from the main part just to survive.
So I don't think that the sun eater feat is something we should use as proof for large star level durability.
As for the moving Earth feat it looks legit, I don't see any flaws in the calculation. But are we sure that's Post-Crisis? It looks like Pre-Crisis to me by the art style. If it is Post Crisis though id agree it is solid proof of small star level power.
Couple issues with the 50 supernova sun eater.
1. The sun eater is said to be the size of a Nebula so theoretically the explosion would be spread over the size of a Nebula initially, thus superman would only be hit by a tiny fraction of it, like negligent.
http://i.imgur.com/SF9SrB6.jpg
And we know he was not in or on the core to.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/13/139138/3020927-2609411-17.jpg
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11125/111253496/4816729-1014199553-Super.jpg
2. They use a Pre-crisis picture of a sun eaters core to try and scale the size of this sun eater, despite it being contradicted by the fact the sun eater here is specifically said to be nebula size. Also it is against the scaling rules for Marvel and DC for us to allow a Pre-Crisis and Post-Crisis cross scaling for size.
3. Superman states he was hit by the electro magnetic shockwave of the explosion, not the main part, the ball of radiation, which would incinerate him instantly. So that again is another reason to doubt he could take a significant portion of the explosion, when he had to run from the main part just to survive.
So I don't think that the sun eater feat is something we should use as proof for large star level durability.
As for the moving Earth feat it looks legit, I don't see any flaws in the calculation. But are we sure that's Post-Crisis? It looks like Pre-Crisis to me by the art style. If it is Post Crisis though id agree it is solid proof of small star level power.
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As far as the femtosecond feat. It is a statement that superman wants his foe to stop in a femtosecond. It doesn't really specify what he can do in a femtosecond, and there is no accompanying feat at that speed, so I would say it's unquantifiable due to lack of an actual feat and him not saying outright he can move x distance in that time, rather his foe has to stop in that timeframe. But that's my take, I could see accepting it or not depending how lenient with statements you want to be.
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@Ryu
Mageddon still is just a power source/bomb, not necessarily the yield of the bomb if it were to detonate. Sure you could call it a type of durability feat I guess in the same way eating lava is a durability feat, but it is not quantifiable as you cannot assume the energy absorbed is equal to the potential yield of the explosion. Not to mention it even states the thing would go Hypernova implying an almost nuclear like reaction, making the power source or fuel not equal to the yield. It certainly does not prove he has half galaxy level durability.
Energy can't be created or destroyed. For the anti-sun to have been completely disarmed, Superman would have had to absorb all the energy it can produce. This thing can easily destroy stars, travel across the entire universe in months, and function for billions of years at least, so it must produce a ton of energy. And we know this fuel source acts like a sun, so Superman must have absorbed all the energy this sun could produce for the remainder of its lifetime. That would be large star level if we're conservative
Can you prove that the anti sun is big as the normal sun then. Also for specific ones that prove it isn't, Superman flies into it and the core is relatively not far away, and it's outer most sphere even can be seen as a bend compared to Superman, if it were sun size it would be so massive that would look like a flat wall of fire, so it shows it is nowhere near the size of the sun.
It looks like a sun, people constantly refer to it as a sun, it acts like a sun, when detonated it's said to act like a hypernova, it has solar flares like a sun, and it produces a form of sunlight like a sun. Literally the only thing you have to argue that it isn't at least as large as the Sun is amounts to perspective. Flight streaks matter little, as they're not meant to be taken to scale, or will you argue that Superman grew a few dozen meters to kilometers here
They assume he is hit with the entire amount of energy, which is not even plausible. the impact occurred over much of the surface area of the two planets and would be spread out along all of that, and also they assume he is literally at the exact point of impact dead center down to the meter, which is extremely unlikely, when we have no idea where on the planet he is. So no, the majority of the force would not even have touched him and it is not proof of him being large star level from what I have seen.
If you have two spheres collide with each other, they're going to meet at one point. That's how geometry works. And even if Superman was 100 miles away from the epicenter, he still would have taken like 99% of the collision's energy due to just how big these planets are. But thankfully, we don't have to assume that. The Source itself said it was going to hit in the immediate vicinity
@Ant
Well, absorbing enough energy to supposedly vaporise half a galaxy has to be considered as an outlier, or pure energy absorption feat, given that Superman has consistently been harmed by far less.
To deactivate a sun, Superman at the very least would have had to absorb the amount of energy the Sun produces over a very large time, which would come to large star level anyway depending on just how much energy was stored within Mageddon, which considering it has the power to casually wipe out stars and function for billions of years , I would say it's a lot
Superman "being harmed by far less" has been explained many times in the comics to be attributed to the amount of energy within him and the mental limiters he placed on his abilities. At the very least we can consider these higher feats as special circumstances, much like Hulk's high end feats. That doesn't make them PIS
On the other hand, we cannot use the New Genesis/Apocolips collission feat, as it uses calculation stacking between different continuities, writers, and eras, despite the extreme inconsistencies between them, which goes strongly against our Power-scaling Rules for Marvel and DC Comics.
The New Gods were unaffected by the COIE, so the entire argument of different continuities is moot. I'm curious as to why you would say there are "extreme inconsistencies" when every comment about these planets' sizes points to them being really big. It's hardly an outlier for Superman too, as you yourself admit the Sun-Eater feat is legit, which came to large star level and, again, featured a younger Superman in a story 20 or so years before Death of the New Gods
@RPG
the femtosecond thing seems inconsistent, Supes has always been portrayed to have trash combat speed usually. Superman has more hundreds of times FTL Combat Speed feats than a femtosecond feat. Plus Superman is commonly stated to be nanosecond level, and femtoseconds are much smaller than nanoseconds. And Superman has been stated to have a lower combat speed than traverse speeds
Slower combat reactions than Wonder Woma , and only because she's a highly trained warrior. She's a person that can constantly go toe to toe with Cheetah, who is comparable to base Flash's speed. Even then Superman gives her more than she can handle when they fight, meaning his combat speed might be inferior to hers, but not significantly so. Never mind that Superman has reaction feats in the trillions of times FTL . Outlier? Tell it to the universe crossing Lanterns he fights on quite a few occasions. Hell, the fact he can just speed up his reactions to keep up with time [http:// http://imgur.com/a/Kizn3 dilations] or keep up with Flash's/Zoom's super speed on multiple occasions proves his reactions are legit. For added measure, here's is the author explaining that conversation with Flash, even directly saying he has attoseconds reactions, which regardless of being an exaggeration or not proves that femtosecond reactions aren't necessarily out of the question
Mageddon still is just a power source/bomb, not necessarily the yield of the bomb if it were to detonate. Sure you could call it a type of durability feat I guess in the same way eating lava is a durability feat, but it is not quantifiable as you cannot assume the energy absorbed is equal to the potential yield of the explosion. Not to mention it even states the thing would go Hypernova implying an almost nuclear like reaction, making the power source or fuel not equal to the yield. It certainly does not prove he has half galaxy level durability.
Energy can't be created or destroyed. For the anti-sun to have been completely disarmed, Superman would have had to absorb all the energy it can produce. This thing can easily destroy stars, travel across the entire universe in months, and function for billions of years at least, so it must produce a ton of energy. And we know this fuel source acts like a sun, so Superman must have absorbed all the energy this sun could produce for the remainder of its lifetime. That would be large star level if we're conservative
Can you prove that the anti sun is big as the normal sun then. Also for specific ones that prove it isn't, Superman flies into it and the core is relatively not far away, and it's outer most sphere even can be seen as a bend compared to Superman, if it were sun size it would be so massive that would look like a flat wall of fire, so it shows it is nowhere near the size of the sun.
It looks like a sun, people constantly refer to it as a sun, it acts like a sun, when detonated it's said to act like a hypernova, it has solar flares like a sun, and it produces a form of sunlight like a sun. Literally the only thing you have to argue that it isn't at least as large as the Sun is amounts to perspective. Flight streaks matter little, as they're not meant to be taken to scale, or will you argue that Superman grew a few dozen meters to kilometers here
They assume he is hit with the entire amount of energy, which is not even plausible. the impact occurred over much of the surface area of the two planets and would be spread out along all of that, and also they assume he is literally at the exact point of impact dead center down to the meter, which is extremely unlikely, when we have no idea where on the planet he is. So no, the majority of the force would not even have touched him and it is not proof of him being large star level from what I have seen.
If you have two spheres collide with each other, they're going to meet at one point. That's how geometry works. And even if Superman was 100 miles away from the epicenter, he still would have taken like 99% of the collision's energy due to just how big these planets are. But thankfully, we don't have to assume that. The Source itself said it was going to hit in the immediate vicinity
@Ant
Well, absorbing enough energy to supposedly vaporise half a galaxy has to be considered as an outlier, or pure energy absorption feat, given that Superman has consistently been harmed by far less.
To deactivate a sun, Superman at the very least would have had to absorb the amount of energy the Sun produces over a very large time, which would come to large star level anyway depending on just how much energy was stored within Mageddon, which considering it has the power to casually wipe out stars and function for billions of years , I would say it's a lot
Superman "being harmed by far less" has been explained many times in the comics to be attributed to the amount of energy within him and the mental limiters he placed on his abilities. At the very least we can consider these higher feats as special circumstances, much like Hulk's high end feats. That doesn't make them PIS
On the other hand, we cannot use the New Genesis/Apocolips collission feat, as it uses calculation stacking between different continuities, writers, and eras, despite the extreme inconsistencies between them, which goes strongly against our Power-scaling Rules for Marvel and DC Comics.
The New Gods were unaffected by the COIE, so the entire argument of different continuities is moot. I'm curious as to why you would say there are "extreme inconsistencies" when every comment about these planets' sizes points to them being really big. It's hardly an outlier for Superman too, as you yourself admit the Sun-Eater feat is legit, which came to large star level and, again, featured a younger Superman in a story 20 or so years before Death of the New Gods
@RPG
the femtosecond thing seems inconsistent, Supes has always been portrayed to have trash combat speed usually. Superman has more hundreds of times FTL Combat Speed feats than a femtosecond feat. Plus Superman is commonly stated to be nanosecond level, and femtoseconds are much smaller than nanoseconds. And Superman has been stated to have a lower combat speed than traverse speeds
Slower combat reactions than Wonder Woma , and only because she's a highly trained warrior. She's a person that can constantly go toe to toe with Cheetah, who is comparable to base Flash's speed. Even then Superman gives her more than she can handle when they fight, meaning his combat speed might be inferior to hers, but not significantly so. Never mind that Superman has reaction feats in the trillions of times FTL . Outlier? Tell it to the universe crossing Lanterns he fights on quite a few occasions. Hell, the fact he can just speed up his reactions to keep up with time [http:// http://imgur.com/a/Kizn3 dilations] or keep up with Flash's/Zoom's super speed on multiple occasions proves his reactions are legit. For added measure, here's is the author explaining that conversation with Flash, even directly saying he has attoseconds reactions, which regardless of being an exaggeration or not proves that femtosecond reactions aren't necessarily out of the question
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Well here's the scan where he says to put an object down to Jeckie, not sure they are compared to superman. Although he has no follow up feat to put him at that speed, and never specifies he can do anything in particular in that timeframe, so personally I don't accept it as proof he can move with femtosecond reaction time. Now nanosecond reaction time, he ahs done feats in this timeframe so he does have at least nanosecond reaction time.
http://s1113.photobucket.com/user/abhilegend/media/supermanfemto.jpg.html
http://s1113.photobucket.com/user/abhilegend/media/supermanfemto.jpg.html
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mmm, maybe is better to talk about that in a separate threadCanis Latrans2 said:
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'1. 'The sun eater is said to be the size of a Nebula so theoretically the explosion would be spread over the size of a Nebula initially, thus superman would only be hit by a tiny fraction of it, like negligent. And we know he was not in or on the core to.
That feat wasn't what was analyzed. Read the calc agai
2. They use a Pre-crisis picture of a sun eaters core to try and scale the size of this sun eater, despite it being contradicted by the fact the sun eater here is specifically said to be nebula size. Also it is against the scaling rules for Marvel and DC for us to allow a Pre-Crisis and Post-Crisis cross scaling for size.
In the older scene, they're within the nebula-sized Sun-Eater. And both scenes took place in Post-Crisis. Very early given it was written by Byrne
'2. 'Superman states he was hit by the electro magnetic shockwave of the explosion, not the main part, the ball of radiation, which would incinerate him instantly. So that again is another reason to doubt he could take a significant portion of the explosion, when he had to run from the main part just to survive.
That feat wasn't what was analyzed. Read the calc agai
So I don't think that the sun eater feat is something we should use as proof for large star level durability.
Read the calc agai
As for the moving Earth feat it looks legit, I don't see any flaws in the calculation. But are we sure that's Post-Crisis? It looks like Pre-Crisis to me by the art style. If it is Post Crisis though id agree it is solid proof of small star level power.
I also think that was Pre-Crisis
That feat wasn't what was analyzed. Read the calc agai
2. They use a Pre-crisis picture of a sun eaters core to try and scale the size of this sun eater, despite it being contradicted by the fact the sun eater here is specifically said to be nebula size. Also it is against the scaling rules for Marvel and DC for us to allow a Pre-Crisis and Post-Crisis cross scaling for size.
In the older scene, they're within the nebula-sized Sun-Eater. And both scenes took place in Post-Crisis. Very early given it was written by Byrne
'2. 'Superman states he was hit by the electro magnetic shockwave of the explosion, not the main part, the ball of radiation, which would incinerate him instantly. So that again is another reason to doubt he could take a significant portion of the explosion, when he had to run from the main part just to survive.
That feat wasn't what was analyzed. Read the calc agai
So I don't think that the sun eater feat is something we should use as proof for large star level durability.
Read the calc agai
As for the moving Earth feat it looks legit, I don't see any flaws in the calculation. But are we sure that's Post-Crisis? It looks like Pre-Crisis to me by the art style. If it is Post Crisis though id agree it is solid proof of small star level power.
I also think that was Pre-Crisis
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@metabro
Sorry dude, he only metabolized the energy of the anti sun. That is not eh same as tanking the potential yield of the bomb going off. So it is a unquantifiable feat of energy absorption, not durability.
The fact is no proof exists the anti sun is the size of the real sun. Only speculation. And using the only scalable pics with superman as a reference it certainly doesn't scale to sun size. So I don't see it as a viable calc.
The source says that superman should depart the immediate vicinity as it will not be hospitable, it says nowhere that he is stuck at the exact point of initial impact, also superman would not purposefully go as close to point of impact anyway. Fact is even if he were close still hundreds of miles or more would distribute all that over a huge surface area, there is no reason to think he took close to the full force of the impact. Also the geometry statement is not ideal for this situation, the planets get crushed together, they don't only have one tiny point of impact. Also it utilizes Pre-Crisis scans for scaling which is against the rules for scaling in Marvel and DC in this wiki so we couldn't use the feat regardless even if we allowed it as EM presents it.
Sorry dude, he only metabolized the energy of the anti sun. That is not eh same as tanking the potential yield of the bomb going off. So it is a unquantifiable feat of energy absorption, not durability.
The fact is no proof exists the anti sun is the size of the real sun. Only speculation. And using the only scalable pics with superman as a reference it certainly doesn't scale to sun size. So I don't see it as a viable calc.
The source says that superman should depart the immediate vicinity as it will not be hospitable, it says nowhere that he is stuck at the exact point of initial impact, also superman would not purposefully go as close to point of impact anyway. Fact is even if he were close still hundreds of miles or more would distribute all that over a huge surface area, there is no reason to think he took close to the full force of the impact. Also the geometry statement is not ideal for this situation, the planets get crushed together, they don't only have one tiny point of impact. Also it utilizes Pre-Crisis scans for scaling which is against the rules for scaling in Marvel and DC in this wiki so we couldn't use the feat regardless even if we allowed it as EM presents it.
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@Canis Well I didn't see where it was stated the planet was blue shifting. Also when looking up blue shift it appears blue to the naked eye when approaching at near relativistic speed, as opposed to relativistic speed apparently.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blueshift
So the speed is probably more like sub-rel instead of relativistic, so the value is likely a little lower than the low end of that calc. Also I guess blue shifting can happen at any speed, its just visible to the naked eye at near rel speeds, so if we were to nit pick it could be any speed technically.
If I could see this proof of the planet blue shifting at that time in that scene I would say it's small star level feat probably.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blueshift
So the speed is probably more like sub-rel instead of relativistic, so the value is likely a little lower than the low end of that calc. Also I guess blue shifting can happen at any speed, its just visible to the naked eye at near rel speeds, so if we were to nit pick it could be any speed technically.
If I could see this proof of the planet blue shifting at that time in that scene I would say it's small star level feat probably.
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@metabro Ahh, I see what your getting at for the sun eater. I reread it. If that old style one is Post Crisis then yeah that's a different feat but still has issues.
1. He does not say that this older sun eater feat had a 50 supernova level yield like the newer one, all he says is he has been up against sun eaters before. Assuming it does is abusing scaling and making assumptions.
2. nly the core of it I absorbed in that old feat, and he survives the explosion of the cores energy, not the whole thing, so it is not all the energy of the sun eater, there is still a nebula sized portion not part of the explosion.
So I don't think the calc is accurate. It assumes the magnitude of the older sun eater feat as being 50 supernova level just due to the newer one, and it ignores the fact only the core was what had been absorbed and blew up, not the entirety of the sun eater which is what was 50 supernova level, not just the core.
1. He does not say that this older sun eater feat had a 50 supernova level yield like the newer one, all he says is he has been up against sun eaters before. Assuming it does is abusing scaling and making assumptions.
2. nly the core of it I absorbed in that old feat, and he survives the explosion of the cores energy, not the whole thing, so it is not all the energy of the sun eater, there is still a nebula sized portion not part of the explosion.
So I don't think the calc is accurate. It assumes the magnitude of the older sun eater feat as being 50 supernova level just due to the newer one, and it ignores the fact only the core was what had been absorbed and blew up, not the entirety of the sun eater which is what was 50 supernova level, not just the core.
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Assuming its sub relavistic speeds its 8.533E+39 J which is Dwarf starSSJRyu1 said:
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@Canis That makes sense to me, it lines up well with Flash IMP being dwarf star level and Superman having the ability to generate the same amount of power.
If I could see this blue shift statement and confirm that it was blue shifting at that time of the feat I'd say it is solid Large Planet+ feat.
If I could see this blue shift statement and confirm that it was blue shifting at that time of the feat I'd say it is solid Large Planet+ feat.
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What exactly is the bare minimun speed for something to have a blue shift?
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@Metabro
I agree with you about continuing to scale Superman from the Mageddon sun, and that we might be able to upgrade his speed from the femtosecond feat.
However, we still cannot upgrade Superman to High 4-A based on the "vaporise half a galaxy" comment. It has to be treated as hyperbole or an outlier, similarly to how we treat the most outrageous feats from Thor and the Hulk.
The amount of energy within Mageddon should logically be of the large star level scale though. I agree with you about that.
Similarly, tanking an extremely dispersed small amount of an explosion seems hard to quantify.
His consistent lesser durability feats are actually just due to most writers portraying him that way, not due to mental limiters, which would logically not affect resistance to damage anyway, just how much he would cause to his foes. They do however, depend on how much sunlight he has absorbed at the time.
The sizes of the planets being referred to as an unspecified very large is not the same thing as using stories by different writers from a few decades earlier in a different continuity to use calculation stacking to say with certainty that they are the size of stars or above. The writer of the story featuring the collission most likely did not know this unless he or she explicitly referred to it.
As for the New Gods being unchanged by the Crisis of Infinite Earths, this seems extremely uncertain, given that their power levels drastically went down, and their histories of interaction with the DC characters were affected to fit with the new continuity. They might or might not have knowledge of the previous continuity, due to enhanced godly perceptions, but that is not the same as being unaffected.
I agree with you about continuing to scale Superman from the Mageddon sun, and that we might be able to upgrade his speed from the femtosecond feat.
However, we still cannot upgrade Superman to High 4-A based on the "vaporise half a galaxy" comment. It has to be treated as hyperbole or an outlier, similarly to how we treat the most outrageous feats from Thor and the Hulk.
The amount of energy within Mageddon should logically be of the large star level scale though. I agree with you about that.
Similarly, tanking an extremely dispersed small amount of an explosion seems hard to quantify.
His consistent lesser durability feats are actually just due to most writers portraying him that way, not due to mental limiters, which would logically not affect resistance to damage anyway, just how much he would cause to his foes. They do however, depend on how much sunlight he has absorbed at the time.
The sizes of the planets being referred to as an unspecified very large is not the same thing as using stories by different writers from a few decades earlier in a different continuity to use calculation stacking to say with certainty that they are the size of stars or above. The writer of the story featuring the collission most likely did not know this unless he or she explicitly referred to it.
As for the New Gods being unchanged by the Crisis of Infinite Earths, this seems extremely uncertain, given that their power levels drastically went down, and their histories of interaction with the DC characters were affected to fit with the new continuity. They might or might not have knowledge of the previous continuity, due to enhanced godly perceptions, but that is not the same as being unaffected.
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@loudcloud No, the person doing the calc used relativistic numbers to determine the numbers, when he should have used sub-relativistic speeds as that is when you can start to see blue shift. So the values would be lower than low end of the calc, Large Planet+ actually.
@Canis My understanding is you can see it with the naked eye at sub-rel speeds, but it is occurring at any speed, you just can't see it with the naked eye until it reaches that speed.
@Canis My understanding is you can see it with the naked eye at sub-rel speeds, but it is occurring at any speed, you just can't see it with the naked eye until it reaches that speed.
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So to sum up what I've seen and my take on the feats brought up.
Mageddon has no given size for the anti-sun, unless you pixel scale superman flying into it, which would make it relatively small in reality. So that calc is completely off assuming it to be the size of the sun, this is never stated or shown and would be an assumption.
The planets colliding breaks scaling rules for the site and also the energy would be distributed over a huge area so most would never touch Superman.
The absorbing and metabolizing of the anti sun energy again is an absorption feat, not durability, and the potential yield of the explosion =/= the fuel source. Also even if we ignored that it would be a huge outlier as no other feat comes close to multi SS level.
The whole sun eater explosion has no reference to the magnitude of the explosion, simply saying he dealt with sun eaters before does not make it have the 50 kepler magnitude of the other sun eater, and also only it's core was absorbed and then exploded outward, not the whole sun eater which was the size of a nebula, so it really is not proven by any means to be an explosion of 75 FOE like was claimed anyway.
The moving krypton feat is slightly oversold as blue shift should be sub-rel and not relativistic, also I didn't see proof that it was moving that fast in that comic. But if it was that feat is more like Large Planet+.
The moving the Earth was calced at small star level, the calc looked good, but the scans seem to be Pre-Crisis so I don't know if that is Post-Crisis, I'm being told it isn't. If it is small star works, if not obviously can't mix Pre and Post feats.
So yeah, I'd strongly suggest making Superman large Planet/+ till we get a concrete feat to put him at higher, because all the feats brought up here putting him at star levels have flaws from what I see.
Mageddon has no given size for the anti-sun, unless you pixel scale superman flying into it, which would make it relatively small in reality. So that calc is completely off assuming it to be the size of the sun, this is never stated or shown and would be an assumption.
The planets colliding breaks scaling rules for the site and also the energy would be distributed over a huge area so most would never touch Superman.
The absorbing and metabolizing of the anti sun energy again is an absorption feat, not durability, and the potential yield of the explosion =/= the fuel source. Also even if we ignored that it would be a huge outlier as no other feat comes close to multi SS level.
The whole sun eater explosion has no reference to the magnitude of the explosion, simply saying he dealt with sun eaters before does not make it have the 50 kepler magnitude of the other sun eater, and also only it's core was absorbed and then exploded outward, not the whole sun eater which was the size of a nebula, so it really is not proven by any means to be an explosion of 75 FOE like was claimed anyway.
The moving krypton feat is slightly oversold as blue shift should be sub-rel and not relativistic, also I didn't see proof that it was moving that fast in that comic. But if it was that feat is more like Large Planet+.
The moving the Earth was calced at small star level, the calc looked good, but the scans seem to be Pre-Crisis so I don't know if that is Post-Crisis, I'm being told it isn't. If it is small star works, if not obviously can't mix Pre and Post feats.
So yeah, I'd strongly suggest making Superman large Planet/+ till we get a concrete feat to put him at higher, because all the feats brought up here putting him at star levels have flaws from what I see.
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It is too bad if we have to downgrade Post-Crisis Superman though. I really like the character, and it will be lots of extra work to downgrade all of the related DC characters, but I will do so if necessary.
However, I would still prefer to see what the OBD calculators think about the Mageddon feat first.
However, I would still prefer to see what the OBD calculators think about the Mageddon feat first.
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Ant the other people of the staff could also help to do any major changes if the OBD does something about this, man....
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I understand Ant. If I can assist you if there needs to be changes made let me know and I'm happy to help best I can.
Yeah for sure if you want to try and contact the OBD on the subject there input would be good, but to my knowledge we tried to reach out to them regarding the feat already and haven't gotten a response in well over a week so maybe if they don't respond soon we should nix the feat.
Yeah for sure if you want to try and contact the OBD on the subject there input would be good, but to my knowledge we tried to reach out to them regarding the feat already and haven't gotten a response in well over a week so maybe if they don't respond soon we should nix the feat.
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