Super Saiyan 3 Multiplier

[ChronoULT]

So, currently, SSJ3 doesn't have a multiplier. This thread will try to apply one

What Episode 5 has shown:

• 1-2: Goku vs Beerus starts, Whis thinks he has time to have a lunch
• 3-5: Goku transforms into Super Saiyan. Beerus considers it a slight power boost. After seeing them fight, Whis gives up on eating
• 6-11: Goku transforms into Super Saiyan 2. Beerus notes it is quite a skill and has a monologue about how big was his power up. Whis still thinks he doesn't have time to eat
• 12-16: Goku transforms into Super Saiyan 3. Beerus acknowledges how powerful he became and says it is much more powerful than 1 and 2. Whis now starts eating

The conclusion of this is that Super Saiyan 3 is, in relation to SSJ2, a power boost big enough to interest them, while the base form to SSJ, and SSJ to SSJ2 is not. Therefore, SSJ3 multiplier should be a 50x stacked over SSJ2, or, at the very least, 20x stacked over SSJ2, since it is considered a bigger power boost than the previous transformations.

This is in the manga as well, since Beerus and Whis only get interested in Goku's power when he transforms into SSJ3:



And Toppo only got a significant reaction to Goku's transformations when he transformed into SSJ3



This is consistent with was presented in the original manga and guides, since everyone is completely shocked at the power Goku got, despite knowing very well the boost the previous transformations gave him




And it's considered a limit breaking transformation

Additionaly, the only other time a Super Saiyan transformation drained so much energy is with Super Saiyan Blue in the manga before they mastered it, which is also a 50x multiplier stacked over another transformation.

Vote Tally -

- For 50x stacked over SSJ2:

Agree:

Disagree:

Neutral:

---

For 20x stacked over SSJ2:

Agree:

Disagree:

Neutral:

 

[BestMGQScalerEver]

Pretty sure this goes against multiplier standards. plus SSJ2, SSJ3 and SSJ grade 3 is considered a 500x mult if you didn't know.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Any reason SSJ3 isn't just a small multiplier that just pushed Goku's power over the edge to interest beerus?

 

[ChronoULT]

Pretty sure this goes against multiplier standards. plus SSJ2, SSJ3 and SSJ grade 3 is considered a 500x mult if you didn't know.

If i remember correctly, ssj2 is 20x stacked over ssj because SSJ2 Gohan could stomp Powerhouse Cell, but Grade 3 is indeed 10x over ssj

 

[ChronoULT]

Any reason SSJ3 isn't just a small multiplier that just pushed Goku's power over the edge to interest beerus?

Because it's mentioned to be "much more powerful" than the previous transformations, while ssj is a "slight power upgrade". Beerus only acknowledges the power he was receiving with the transformations when he transforms into 3

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Because it's mentioned to be "much more powerful" than the previous transformations, while ssj is a "slight power boost". Beerus only acknowledges the power he was receiving with the transformations when he transforms into 3

Wouldn't that whole interaction mean SSJ3>SSJ2>SSJ1=50X?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I have doubts about this.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

I have doubts about this.

I also have but I have been studying the whole day and my brain isn't exactly in tip-top shape. Just something nagging me of the whole premise but I guess more people will comment. DDM are you neutral for now?

 

[ChronoULT]

Wouldn't that whole interaction mean SSJ3>SSJ2>SSJ1=50X?

it is, but it has more context to that, since Beerus gives his opinion on the power upgrade each transformation gave to Goku and compares the power upgrade

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

it is, but it has more context to that, since Beerus gives his opinion on the power upgrade each transformation gave to Goku and compares the power upgrade

Yeah I can see what you mean. As I said can't really think all that well currently so going to think this over better tomorrow. No opinion on this yet.

 

[ChronoULT]

I have doubts about this.

I would like to read your opinion

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

Oh okay I see it now. Beerus considers SSJ as a slight power upgrade. So he thinks a 50x multiplier as pretty darn useless. One could say for him to be surprised by the other two forms that their individual power up is bigger than the one provided by the SSJ form. However the problem is that he can also refer to the fact that Goku's 50x power up wasn't his best and every increase beyond that even 2x is significant that's also why he said that he was breaking his limit which could of course also refer to the other scenario where SSJ2 is an even bigger multiplier than SSJ. Find a way for that to be solved and the case would be perfect.

 

[Damage3245]

The conclusion of this is that Super Saiyan 3 is, in relation to SSJ2, a power boost big enough to interest them, while the base form to SSJ, and SSJ to SSJ2 is not. Therefore, SSJ3 multiplier should be a 50x stacked over SSJ2, or, at the very least, 20x stacked over SSJ2, since it is considered a bigger power boost than the previous transformations.

I don't agree with this.

We can't reason out multipliers like this according to our Multipliers standards.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

I don't agree with this.

We can't reason out multipliers like this according to our Multipliers standards.

That does seem weird and maybe is worth looking at.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

I don't agree with this.

We can't reason out multipliers like this according to our Multipliers standards.

Multipliers come from direct statements instead of being reasoned from something else. That means, for example, that if a verse has powerlevels or statistics, the doubling of a statistic or power level should not be concluded to correspond to the power of the character doubling, unless it is clearly specified to work that way.

— Here

Damage is correct.

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

Technically, SSJ2 being a x20 multiplier over SSJ was "reasoned out"

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

This thread would be far more successful if this was trying to justify S.E.G's 4 times multiplier over SSJ2.

In fact, why don't we use it? Please don't tell me it's not "because it's obviously much higher than that", that is a terrible excuse not to use a stated lowball.

 

[ChronoULT]

— Here

Damage is correct.

If it's hurting the standards then there is nothing i can do, i guess

 

[Adem_Warlock69]

This thread would be far more successful if this was trying to justify S.E.G's 4 times multiplier over SSJ2.

In fact, why don't we use it? Please don't tell me it's not "because it's obviously much higher than that", that is a terrible excuse not to use a stated lowball.

S.E.G lists SSJ2 as a x100 multiplier while it's accepted as a x1000 one, so it's not the most reliable

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

— Here

Damage is correct.

Wouldn't that not be the exact case here? From what I get here it says you can't say something is a multiplier without it being clearly stated as such. Thing is we know SSJ3 is a multiplier but we don't know the scale of it. The op is proposing that the way Beerus refers to them both, the form multipliers are at least equal to SSJ. I understand going by the opinion that he was surprised by any increase beyond Ssj and the increase is not necessarily bigger but throwing everything out seems weird and I think if truly op's argument can't be used due to that then the rule should be looked at because we know SSJ3 is a multiplier and if you agree with the op then the minimum boost is 50X.

 

[ChronoULT]

This thread would be far more successful if this was trying to justify S.E.G's 4 times multiplier over SSJ2.

In fact, why don't we use it? Please don't tell me it's not "because it's obviously much higher than that", that is a terrible excuse not to use a stated lowball.

SEG's ssj2 multiplier is already rejected so i concluded that it couldn't be cherry picked for ssj3

 

[Damage3245]

Wouldn't that not be the exact case here? From what I get here it says you can't say something is a multiplier without it being clearly stated as such. Thing is we know SSJ3 is a multiplier but we don't know the scale of it. The op is proposing that the way Beerus refers to them both, the form multipliers are at least equal to SSJ. I understand going by the opinion that he was surprised by any increase beyond Ssj and the increase is not necessarily bigger but throwing everything out seems weird and I think if truly op's argument can't be used due to that then the rule should be looked at because we know SSJ3 is a multiplier and if you agree with the op then the minimum boost is 50X.

That part can't be reasoned out either.

 

[Nierre]

Y'all DB supporters need to get your shit together. These threads really ain't it. They're off shaky and weak arguments and obviously ignore consistency and clear logic

No offense to the OP in this thread, however. This thread isn't NEARLY as egregious as some of the others that have been posted and closed as of recent.

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

That part can't be reasoned out either.

It can if it's straight up compared to known multipliers.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

SEG's ssj2 multiplier is already rejected.

Two wrongs don't make a right. There is more than enough narrative evidence that SSJ2 is AT LEAST twice as strong as Super Saiyan, rejecting it based on "it being bullshit because it's higher than 2x" is not a valid response.

 

[The_Yellow_Topaz]

Also I'm very sure after the whole 500x SSJ2 ordeal, some staff would prefer the 100x SSJ2 multiplier in a heartbeat

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

S.E.G lists SSJ2 as a x100 multiplier while it's accepted as a x1000 one, so it's not the most reliable

Wrong it lists SEG as 2x SSJ and we accept SSJ2 as 2x SSJ

SSJ3 is x4 SSJ2 in SEG



Also I disagree with the op I would suggest doing the *4 multiplier instead ontop of SSJ2 it’s better and it’s stated

 

[Nullflowerblush]

we accept SSJ2 as 2x SSJ

Super Saiyan 2 is accepted as more powerful than Super Saiyan Third Grade, which is accepted as ten-times as powerful as Super Saiyan.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Super Saiyan 2 is accepted as more powerful than Super Saiyan Third Grade, which is accepted as ten-times as powerful as Super Saiyan.

I was referring to Grade 3 in this context

 

[Damage3245]

It can if it's straight up compared to known multipliers.

I don't think the comparison is explicit enough here.

 

[Nullflowerblush]

I was referring to Grade 3 in this context

Grade 3 is never mentioned in the Super Exciting Guide, though. Super Saiyan 2 is directly compared to the original Super Saiyan, the only form represented in the image.

 

[TheGodOfICE777]

Grade 3 is never mentioned in the Super Exciting Guide, though. Super Saiyan 2 is directly compared to the original Super Saiyan, the only form represented in the image.

Does it tell us which specific grade? If not I don’t think that’s a good assumption

 

[ChronoULT]

Does it tell us which specific grade? If not I don’t think that’s a good assumption

It uses an image of Super Saiyan Goku from Namek, and It is referencing the 50x multiplier
https://www.kanzenshuu.com/battle-p...ng as-,regular Super Saiyan,-, and that Super

But i can edit the thread If SEG's 4x can still be discussed

 

[ChronoULT]

Y'all DB supporters need to get your shit together. These threads really ain't it. They're off shaky and weak arguments and obviously ignore consistency and clear logic

No offense to the OP in this thread, however. This thread isn't NEARLY as egregious as some of the others that have been posted and closed as of recent.

I cant disagree, i rushed this thread. The criticism will be taken into account

 

[ChronoULT]

Can this thread be closed?

 

[Serlock_Holmes]

I don't think the comparison is explicit enough here.

I noted as much. Was more talking about a general sense that if a multipliers was compared to a known one it should be accepted. For example here if the boost from SSJ1 to SSJ2 was stated to be bigger than base to SSJ1 the boost would be at minimum 51x and if that was also true for SSJ2 to SSJ3 the boost would be minimum 52x. However here Beerus may be surprised from any boost across the 50x which would make sense given ssj3 is a 400x boost even by guidebooks.

 

[Eseseso]

Disagree with OP.

Why don't we just use the 4x multiplier?

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Can this thread be closed?

Closing per OPs request