Super Mario General Discussion Thread.

[DaReaperMan]

Yeah, Im sorry if it's annoying, but something needs to come from Reclusa, especially considering what we now know!

Hop offa him, man. You remind me of the people who wank Mannoroth to be more than he is.

 

[Galactidot]

Hop offa him, man. You remind me of the people who wank Mannoroth to be more than he is.

Look. The only thing happening to Reclusa is straight lowballing. He literally solos universes as a plot point, but is merely continent level. Like, not even 4-A.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Look. The only thing happening to Reclusa is straight lowballing. He literally solos universes as a plot point, but is merely continent level. Like, not even 4-A

Oh no, the man... thing who contextually just mindrapes everyone isn't some big AP god? Damn, who would thought!

 

[Dust_Collector]

Alright tough guy, what if Bowser made a CRT to downgrade YOU to 11-A? Huh? Huh

I'm already 11-A. Check and mate.

 

[Galactidot]

Oh no, the man... thing who contextually just mindrapes everyone isn't some big AP god? Damn, who would thought!

His minion Zokket split the continents with a single attack, and proceeded to get negged by Reclusa, and stated to be "The Exalted One", like bubba

He also can't mindrape everyone, you should know better than anyone that if he ever ran into someone with resistance, he'd need the AP to defeat them easily.

Like King Boo? The incorporeal guy he's stated to scale above from the Mushroom Kingdom?
Or every single Luma?

Like yeah hax is his specialty but we get verbatim told that all of his powers come from a single energy source, this source being the one he uses to manifest, create dream worlds directly, and attack and make the Soli-tree

 

[Galactidot]

I'm already 11-A. Check and mate.

Wow that's the same tier as the VSBW interpretation of Mario

 

[IDK3465]

I'm already 11-A. Check and mate.

This mf is a pentagon

 

[DaReaperMan]

His minion Zokket split the continents with a single attack, and proceeded to get negged by Reclusa, and stated to be "The Exalted One", like bubba

Oh wow, he upscales from Continental!

Like King Boo? The incorporeal guy he's stated to scale above from the Mushroom Kingdom?

Oh wow, another Continental!

Or every single Luma?

Oh wow, Outliers: The things!

Like yeah hax is his specialty but we get verbatim told that all of his powers come from a single energy source, this source being the one he uses to manifest, create dream worlds directly, and attack and make the Soli-tree

Him having a UES is unsupported IMO, and even then it'd just be Low 2-C CREATION, not anything that's AP.

Get bro past Antasma

 

[Galactidot]

Oh wow, Outliers: The things!

Outliers are a thing due to antifeats existing, in order to keep balance. Reclusa is a new character that's not even FROM the Marioverse who was immediately gassed up as the toughest foe yet who is capable of killing everyone.

He shouldn't have to worry about outlier scaling...

Him having a UES is unsupported IMO, and even then it'd just be Low 2-C CREATION, not anything that's AP.

Dream Worlds made of Glohm vanish from existence when Glohm itself and the entity who created it banishes from existence, causing a chain reaction of a sustaining of billions of dream worlds directly linked to Reclusa

Also, if Bonds are ever marked as a UES, Glohm would too by default

Get bro past Antasma

Reclusa already outdid all his feats so I don't know what to tell you

 

[DaReaperMan]

Outliers are a thing due to antifeats existing, in order to keep balance. Reclusa is a new character that's not even FROM the Marioverse who was immediately gassed up as the toughest foe yet who is capable of killing everyone.

After things are imprisoned and shit. so... heh.

Also, you want to know who was also gassed up to be the biggest bad who can't be beaten? The fuckmothering Jailer. Guess what, right now his ass ain't even top 10 in the cosmology. This isn't my first rodeo with things that are said to be the stwongest and just do not have things backing that up.

Oh right, Reclusa gets harmed by the Mario Bros. He runs like a little googoo gaga ***** and when they catch him they beat his ass and he runs like a little googoo gaga ***** again. Definitely someone who's >>>The Mario Bros, huh?

He shouldn't have to worry about outlier scaling...

You wanna know what Lumas scale to that they automatically become outliers for? Everyone else.

Dream Worlds made of Glohm vanish from existence when Glohm itself and the entity who created it banishes from existence, causing a chain reaction of a sustaining of billions of dream worlds directly linked to Reclusa

Also, if Bonds are ever marked as a UES, Glohm would too by default

You say that like they just follow the same logic lmfao

Reclusa already outdid all his feats so I don't know what to tell you

My brother in christ, Reclusa never just vores a dream. Not "I made it", not "I control it", straight up "I ate it. As a snack." Reclusa makes the dream and Antasma ******' eats it, L rip bozo.

 

[DaReaperMan]

https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/Antasma

Holy crap this profile has seen better days... Like half the abilities aren't justified...

 

[Lou_change]

That was when the Antasma was a normalish bat, too. Swoops, Fangs, other bat themed enemies don't have mouths so they don't scale

 

[Armorchompy]

Lumas aren't even outliers they just... don't scale to shit. Their big cosmic feat kills them.

 

[Galactidot]

After things are imprisoned and shit. so... heh.

Also, you want to know who was also gassed up to be the biggest bad who can't be beaten? The fuckmothering Jailer. Guess what, right now his ass ain't even top 10 in the cosmology. This isn't my first rodeo with things that are said to be the stwongest and just do not have things backing that up.

I mean, fair, but that's a completely different franchise with completely different writers...

Oh right, Reclusa gets harmed by the Mario Bros. He runs like a little googoo gaga ***** and when they catch him they beat his ass and he runs like a little googoo gaga ***** again. Definitely someone who's >>>The Mario Bros, huh?

That's a literal decoy they can fight without bond amp, it's not the real deal. The moment he enter Weeping form, they instantly die and need to be revived by Bond energy

You wanna know what Lumas scale to that they automatically become outliers for? Everyone else.

Sure.

You say that like they just follow the same logic lmfao

Glohm and Bonds are literally able to turn into each other as parallel forces of energy.

My brother in christ, Reclusa never just vores a dream. Not "I made it", not "I control it", straight up "I ate it. As a snack." Reclusa makes the dream and Antasma ******' eats it, L rip bozo.

If you're suggesting this is an AP feat, consider:
Bowser ***** slaps Antasma with minor effort to knock him out
Reclusa ***** slaps Bowser sending him flying across the ocean

Reclusa>Bowser>Antasma

 

[Galactidot]

Lumas aren't even outliers they just... don't scale to shit. Their big cosmic feat kills them.

Isn't their cosmic feat them all sacrificing their life force to reset the universe, killing them in the process?

Just making sure

 

[Dust_Collector]

I mean with that one plot point in Dream Team of needing to expand a dream world just so there's enough room for a single island I'm not even sure Antasma's Low 2-C rating from eating nightmares is 100% safe either but I'm still double checking dream stuff in that game.

 

[Galactidot]

Oh no, the man... thing who contextually just mindrapes everyone isn't some big AP god? Damn, who would thought!

Also, this is a huge misinterpretation of the plot. Reclusa makes it clear he can easily kill them.
Need I remind you that he does his flower thing in waves, and has claimed others have ventures out to fight him before, only to die?
There are quite literally beings too large for his flowers to cover (unless you just wanna give him unlimited size limit for them) that he has fought. He does the flower thing for fun, but every time someone approached him, he'd destroy them all with ease.

Also, the fact that some characters live in space should be proof enough that he doesn't use flowers to kill everybody.

 

[Galactidot]

I mean with that one plot point in Dream Team of needing to expand a dream world just so there's enough room for a single island I'm not even sure Antasma's Low 2-C rating from eating nightmares is 100% safe either but I'm still double checking dream stuff in that game.

Reclusa makes his dream worlds with starry skies... And universes are infinite in size...

 

[DaReaperMan]

I mean, fair, but that's a completely different franchise with completely different writers...

Which has the same issue as here. Writers just... don't give a shit about powerscaling and will absolutely say X is the biggest and Strongest when that shit is just unsupported.

That's a literal decoy they can fight without bond amp, it's not the real deal. The moment he enter Weeping form, they instantly die and need to be revived by Bond energy

Oh, so the moment he enters A different, non-base form, he one-shots the bros? Except wait, he didn't, he haxed them.

You realize that this goes both ways right? In the dream world, Antasma literally can put Dreamy Luigi into one of his Antasmunchies and eat it?

Sure.

Glohm and Bonds are literally able to turn into each other as parallel forces of energy.

I'm not going to get into this with a response man...

Bowser ***** slaps Antasma with minor effort to knock him out

You realize that I know exactly what scene you're referring to, and that Antasma literally was more surprised than anything?(The guy literally went "Vhut?!" instead of making any sounds of pain) And that Bowser had the Dream Stone?

Reclusa ***** slaps Bowser sending him flying across the ocean

Oh wow, he sends a flying thing flying, damn, who could have guessed he could do that with ease?

 

[DaReaperMan]

I mean with that one plot point in Dream Team of needing to expand a dream world just so there's enough room for a single island I'm not even sure Antasma's Low 2-C rating from eating nightmares is 100% safe either but I'm still double checking dream stuff in that game.

I actually do agree dreams should be nerfed but they're like, the main argument for Reclusa having big boy scaling and not just upscaling.

Also, this is a huge misinterpretation of the plot. Reclusa makes it clear he can easily kill them.
Need I remind you that he does his flower thing in waves, and has claimed others have ventures out to fight him before, only to die?
There are quite literally beings too large for his flowers to cover (unless you just wanna give him unlimited size limit for them) that he has fought. He does the flower thing for fun, but every time someone approached him, he'd destroy them all with ease.

Also, the fact that some characters live in space should be proof enough that he doesn't use flowers to kill everybody.

Killing someone who isn't fighting back then killing people you statdrop to hell and back really is not hard. Reclusa doesn't have to be anything but vaguely comparable to or stronger than Bowser minus hax to do that.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

"Seriously? That was IT? What a total wimp!"

Bat Antasma definitely shouldn't be Low 2-C lol

 

[DaReaperMan]

"Seriously? That was IT? What a total wimp!"

Bat Antasma definitely shouldn't be Low 2-C lol

Funny thing is is that Antasma also just didn't make any sounds of pain and was right back to making Bowser scream like a banshee

 

[Galactidot]

Which has the same issue as here. Writers just... don't give a shit about powerscaling and will absolutely say X is the biggest and Strongest when that shit is just unsupported.

Reclusa showed all of the stuff that is said about him. Ask, and I shall provide!

Also, what ever happened to statements, lmao, I'm just giving statements cuh

Oh, so the moment he enters A different, non-base form, he one-shots the bros? Except wait, he didn't, he haxed them.

You're saying this like every single one of his attacks in this phase doesn't make the Bros' muscles spasm on counter, and like he can actually be damaged...

And while this is hax, it's hax from an energy source he uses for everything else, so...

You realize that this goes both ways right? In the dream world, Antasma literally can put Dreamy Luigi into one of his Antasmunchies and eat it?

In the dream world, Reclusa could just erase them, according to the Japanese audience who has read the text. I myself tried to point out that's how it reads in English, but nobody believed me. Hopefully, we can agree and acknowledge that Japanese locals who can fluently read the original script probably have the correct interpretation.

I'm not going to get into this with a response man...

No like literally there's a plot point of how using up sprite bulbs turns them into Spite Bulbs, which provide "negative stale energy"

You realize that I know exactly what scene you're referring to, and that Antasma literally was more surprised than anything?(The guy literally went "Vhut?!" instead of making any sounds of pain) And that Bowser had the Dream Stone?

Dream stone wouldn't amp him instantly with it in his hand, unless we're gonna scale Peach and Starlow's Beam Attack to Dreamy Bowser

Oh wow, he sends a flying thing flying, damn, who could have guessed he could do that with ease?

The funny part is now if I told you that the Bros get flung on the ground, you'd probably switch up despite them being able to fight on par with Bowser in the past...

 

[Galactidot]

Killing someone who isn't fighting back then killing people you statdrop to hell and back really is not hard. Reclusa doesn't have to be anything but vaguely comparable to or stronger than Bowser minus hax to do that.

If you're talking about the Glohm Kill Aura hax, I don't think the Soli-tree can move...

And he wouldn't bust it out for just about anyone. Even so, he makes it clear that the beings he killed had Bonds of their own, so you're honestly just proving Glohm is stronger than most Bonds atp

 

[Dust_Collector]

I mean Dreambert can hold his own with Antasma but explictly states he hasn't got a chance squaring up with Bowser so in terms of power the bat guy is portrayed as weaker than the turtle guy.

I actually do agree dreams should be nerfed but they're like, the main argument for Reclusa having big boy scaling and not just upscaling.

Yeah dreams in general probs need a nerf, not to say they can't be universes because stuff like Future Dream and Subcon are explictly stated / shown to be their own universes, but universe sized dreams shouldn't be the default. I've been trying to find out if there's a concrete size for the Zeekeeper creating dimensions since they directly attribute that to his raw power output but otherwise we might be looking at Dreamy Bowser just upscaling from his base form lmao.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Reclusa showed all of the stuff that is said about him. Ask, and I shall provide!

Also, what ever happened to statements, lmao, I'm just giving statements cuh

Feats>Statements. If something gets statements, but then gets ****** by someone who definitely does not scale that high... MANNOROTH! Then the feats take precedence.

You're saying this like every single one of his attacks in this phase doesn't make the Bros' muscles spasm on counter, and like he can actually be damaged...

Which is why he was taking damage, of course.

And while this is hax, it's hax from an energy source he uses for everything else, so...

sigh

Statistics Reduction making someone so weak they fall over is literally one of the higher-end uses of the ability. It means nothing for stats, it just means he has the ability to make people fall over.

In the dream world, Reclusa could just erase them, according to the Japanese audience who has read the text. I myself tried to point out that's how it reads in English, but nobody believed me. Hopefully, we can agree and acknowledge that Japanese locals who can fluently read the original script probably have the correct interpretation.

hax=/= AP

No like literally there's a plot point of how using up sprite bulbs turns them into Spite Bulbs, which provide "negative stale energy"

Dream stone wouldn't amp him instantly with it in his hand, unless we're gonna scale Peach and Starlow's Beam Attack to Dreamy Bowser

We should, because Dreamy Bowser is a bum, and this is coming from someone who genuinely likes Bowser, his dreamy form is way overrated lol

The funny part is now if I told you that the Bros get flung on the ground, you'd probably switch up despite them being able to fight on par with Bowser in the past...

The Bros are like... fairly consistently weaker than Bowser. It's another story.

 

[Galactidot]

I mean Dreambert can hold his own with Antasma but explictly states he hasn't got a chance squaring up with Bowser so in terms of power the bat guy is portrayed as weaker than the turtle guy.

This. Also, it's beyond safe to assume Bowser was KO'd by that from Weeping Reclusa. Remember, the whole reason he was there was because he was bloodlust on avenging his son, he would not give up after getting flung unless said attack ACTUALLY defeated him.

Yeah dreams in general probs need a nerf, not to say they can't be universes because stuff like Future Dream and Subcon are explictly stated / shown to be their own universes, but universe sized dreams shouldn't be the default. I've been trying to find out if there's a concrete size for the Zeekeeper creating dimensions since they directly attribute that to his raw power output but otherwise we might be looking at Dreamy Bowser just upscaling from his base form lmao.

Yeah like this is fine I guess, Reclusa already proves he can make universal sized dreams anyways, and I'm all for accuracy.

 

[DaReaperMan]

This. Also, it's beyond safe to assume Bowser was KO'd by that from Weeping Reclusa. Remember, the whole reason he was there was because he was bloodlust on avenging his son, he would not give up after getting flung unless said attack ACTUALLY defeated him.

Or his movement speed is dogshit.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Ok I did forget that the dream worlds where you fight giant bosses do have distant visible stars in them when Luigi jumps into space, so 4-A for the Dream Stone / Dreamy Bowser is probs fine if there's no proof any of the dream worlds in Pillo island are universe sized, just like 5 times above the pocket dimension calc we use for that since there's 5 dream worlds shown to have them.

 

[Galactidot]

Feats>Statements. If something gets statements, but then gets ****** by someone who definitely does not scale that high... MANNOROTH! Then the feats take precedence.

He got his ass kicked by the Bros equipped with Bonds, which surpass Space and Time.
They were useless against him in base. So this actually stays consistent.

Which is why he was taking damage, of course.

Weeping Reclusa doesn't take damage. He does not.

sigh

Statistics Reduction making someone so weak they fall over is literally one of the higher-end uses of the ability. It means nothing for stats, it just means he has the ability to make people fall over.

Like I could at least take a 3-A Reclusa because he has such crazy hax but his ass is not continent
Genuinely good to know, though.

hax=/= AP

I know this, but it's a weird case in which his hax are directly fueled by his AP --- the very concept he embodies.

Funny clip but I don't get the meaning of it in this context

We should, because Dreamy Bowser is a bum, and this is coming from someone who genuinely likes Bowser, his dreamy form is way overrated lol

Fury is cooler anyways
That being said, Dream Stone doesn't buff the holder's AP, it only provided hax until Bowser fused with it.

The Bros are like... fairly consistently weaker than Bowser. It's another story.

Together, I mean.

 

[Galactidot]

Or his movement speed is dogshit.

Fair point, but

A. Kamek was right there
B. Whatever the f*ck he did in Yoshi's New Island
C. The kinda jumps he be pulling in Galaxy

 

[Galactidot]

Ok I did forget that the dream worlds where you fight giant bosses do have distant visible stars in them when Luigi jumps into space, so 4-A for the Dream Stone / Dreamy Bowser is probs fine if there's no proof any of the dream worlds in Pillo island are universe sized, just like 5 times above the pocket dimension calc we use for that since there's 5 dream worlds shown to have them.

That being said, I don't think size really matters as much as you think it does when we're working with pocket dimensions --- absolutely not enough to drop from 2-B to 4-A.

 

[Osemere]

Hop offa him, man. You remind me of the people who wank Mannoroth to be more than he is.

TBH Reclusa probably should just be beyond the other big bads of the M&L series since they had to introduce a whole new power-system to beat him. I think the real problem here would be those guys are too high, so in actuality Antasma, Dream Stone, Zeekeeper, etc. should be looked at again.

 

[DaReaperMan]

Weeping Reclusa doesn't take damage. He does not.

Me when I misinform.

Luigi literally slapped an attack back at him with no effort like he was a *****

Like I could at least take a 3-A Reclusa because he has such crazy hax but his ass is not continent
Genuinely good to know, though.

I know this, but it's a weird case in which his hax are directly fueled by his AP --- the very concept he embodies.

Let's calc his GPE and cap the verse at that

Funny clip but I don't get the meaning of it in this context

I'm not going to get into this with a response man...

Context clues~

Fury is cooler anyways
That being said, Dream Stone doesn't buff the holder's AP, it only provided hax until Bowser fused with it.

How do you know?

Together, I mean.

Bowser is literally the damage sponge to end all damage sponges when they fight half the time lol

Fair point, but

A. Kamek was right there

Who's a bum half the time.

B. Whatever the **** he did in Yoshi's New Island

which isn't good movement speed.

C. The kinda jumps he be pulling in Galaxy

He's literally in space.

 

[Lou_change]

Reclusa should probably have resistance to transmutation because he can't be Seedle-ized.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Fair point, but

A. Kamek was right there
B. Whatever the **** he did in Yoshi's New Island
C. The kinda jumps he be pulling in Galaxy

Bowser had Kamek with him at the start of Bowser's Inside Story, will ended up trying to stroll from Dimble Wood to Peach's castle instead of warping there, and later he even tries to get someone else to teleport him to his own castle but when they can't he gets mad he has to take the long way and travel by foot. I mentioned this before but the M&L series does not consider Bowser to have magical powers, he straight up can't do stuff in these games that he casually does in others (He can't grow giant without his adrenaline being forcibly spiked when he's nearly dead, but in something like Mario Party he can just do it whenever he pleases, BIS shows he can't teleport despite several mainline games and spinoffs showing he can, etc...)

That being said, I don't think size really matters as much as you think it does when we're working with pocket dimensions --- absolutely not enough to drop from 2-B to 4-A.

Uh, yeah it does? You can't say creating a pocket dimension only shown to have a sun is actually universal instead of star level, hell that's part of our standards that pocket dimensions need confirmation of being large enough to be 3-A / Low 2-C.

TBH Reclusa probably should just be beyond the other big bads of the M&L series since they had to introduce a whole new power-system to beat him. I think the real problem here would be those guys are too high, so in actuality Antasma, Dream Stone, Zeekeeper, etc. should be looked at again.

Meh, introducing a new power-system to beat him doesn't mean much since there's no Dream Stone or whatever super strong power source hanging around in Concordia, it's just the characters at their base level, so the new power system is just they aren't / can't get strong enough on their own to beat Reclusa without an amp. I know they beat Dreamy Bowser but even ignoring the tier 2 stuff they needed to get the Zeekeeper to counter the power of the Dream Stone and destroy the barrier like 20 minutes before they went against Dreamy Bowser so them beating him is an outlier regardless.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Actually can we not do Reclusa stuff in the general discussion thread it's exhausting going in circles over this one midass character

 

[Galactidot]

Me when I misinform.

He's rubbing his head from a headache, he's stunned.

Luigi literally slapped an attack back at him with no effort like he was a *****

His smallest attack

Let's calc his GPE and cap the verse at that

Sorry what's GPE

Context clues~

How do you know?

Do I even have to answer this..?

Bowser is literally the damage sponge to end all damage sponges when they fight half the time lol

Speaking of, Weeping Reclusa destroyed the airships by moving his arms

And you're right honestly

Who's a bum half the time.

Potential man, like if that guy locked in like in the Bowser vs Eggman DB, he'd be one of the coolest characters lmao

which isn't good movement speed.

It's teleportation, which...

Wait doesn't he have teleportation by default? I mean, a case could be made that the writers forgot, but just in this situation, we should really assume he pulled out all the stops...

He's literally in space.

Huh, I could swear I remembered him doing similar movement at the start of the game...

 

[Galactidot]

Meh, introducing a new power-system to beat him doesn't mean much since there's no Dream Stone or whatever super strong power source hanging around in Concordia, it's just the characters at their base level, so the new power system is just they aren't / can't get strong enough on their own to beat Reclusa without an amp. I know they beat Dreamy Bowser but even ignoring the tier 2 stuff they needed to get the Zeekeeper to counter the power of the Dream Stone and destroy the barrier like 20 minutes before they went against Dreamy Bowser so them beating him is an outlier regardless.

BARRIER RECLUSA HAD AN IMPENETRABLE BARRIER TOO

The parallels lmao

 

[Osemere]

Meh, introducing a new power-system to beat him doesn't mean much since there's no Dream Stone or whatever super strong power source hanging around in Concordia, it's just the characters at their base level, so the new power system is just they aren't / can't get strong enough on their own to beat Reclusa without an amp. I know they beat Dreamy Bowser but even ignoring the tier 2 stuff they needed to get the Zeekeeper to counter the power of the Dream Stone and destroy the barrier like 20 minutes before they went against Dreamy Bowser so them beating him is an outlier regardless.

That’s literally the plot contrivance ‘bond-power’ was invented for though, so it’s not that these are just the ‘naked’ Mario bros.

(And anyway Reclusa could sustain an entire kingdom’s amount of dreams shown through his defeat ending the dreams he already was supplying, and a kingdom-amount-of-dreams was shown in PM64 to be a non-finite increase to the Star Spirits who created the Dream Depot which is 2-A).