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Super Mario General Discussion Thread.

Ok gang, I have a question:
Ignoring whatever is currently accepted on site and whatever site rules you may disagree with, where would you scale the Mario cast if it were purely just up to your personal opinion/interpretation?
 
IDK3465 said:
Ok gang, I have a question:
Ignoring whatever is currently accepted on site and whatever site rules you may disagree with, where would you scale the Mario cast if it were purely just up to your personal opinion/interpretation?
Click to expand...
7-B, likely 7-A, possibly Low 2-C. And MHS speed.
 
DaReaperMan said:
7-B, likely 7-A, possibly Low 2-C. And MHS speed.
Click to expand...
I can get behind that tbh, having a more modest lowball for the 100% certain rating while still acknowledging the tier 2 highball as a possibility.

Personally I’m still in the camp of the cast growing in strength over time, although I do acknowledge that it’s not that well supported in canon, but I see them peaking in base at around 5-C, possibly Low 2-C and Hypersonic travel speed with FTL, possibly MFTL+ combat/reactions
 
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So the calc for the Millennium Star's speed from Mario party 3 comes from something off site rn. Doesn't that mean it needs a recalc in a blog now? I thought it was against wiki standards rn for calcs to be off-site.
 
IDK3465 said:
Ok gang, I have a question:
Ignoring whatever is currently accepted on site and whatever site rules you may disagree with, where would you scale the Mario cast if it were purely just up to your personal opinion/interpretation?
Click to expand...
If taking the varies into account then somewhere in the 8-B/Low tier 7 ballpark as a baseline to High 6-A in the RPGs. If not then it's weird because Wario and DK just kind of tangibly have way better feats than Mario usually does so there isn't an easy way to pick out a rating.
 
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IDK3465 said:
Ok gang, I have a question:
Ignoring whatever is currently accepted on site and whatever site rules you may disagree with, where would you scale the Mario cast if it were purely just up to your personal opinion/interpretation?
Click to expand...
High 6-A up to Low 2-C likely 2-C , at least MHS travel speed with MFTL+ reactions
 
OrangeFR said:
So the calc for the Millennium Star's speed from Mario party 3 comes from something off site rn. Doesn't that mean it needs a recalc in a blog now? I thought it was against wiki standards rn for calcs to be off-site.
Click to expand...
Yeah we should have an actual blog for it on the site, although doesn't nobody scale to this speed given it came from the star falling instead of his flight or combat speed?

IDK3465 said:
Ok gang, I have a question:
Ignoring whatever is currently accepted on site and whatever site rules you may disagree with, where would you scale the Mario cast if it were purely just up to your personal opinion/interpretation?
Click to expand...
Island / Large Island level from the DK moon feat and cloud parting feat from Bananza (They have different cutscenes depending on what form of DK is used including his base form so I think its fine for normal scaling, DK carries as usual), up to Large Star level for the bros and Bowser via Accelerated Development (I know it'd never fly here for understandable reasons but I personally think the Dark Star and by extension Dark Bowser should be superior to a common Power Star), dunno where I'd put the others with their AD beyond just higher than their base stats.
 
IDK3465 said:
Ok gang, I have a question:
Ignoring whatever is currently accepted on site and whatever site rules you may disagree with, where would you scale the Mario cast if it were purely just up to your personal opinion/interpretation?
Click to expand...
Probably around 3-A to low 2-C in base, and higher with power ups, power of bonds, and AD. IDK for speed rn tho since the MFTL+ shit seems questionable rn.
 
IDK3465 said:
Ok gang, I have a question:
Ignoring whatever is currently accepted on site and whatever site rules you may disagree with, where would you scale the Mario cast if it were purely just up to your personal opinion/interpretation?
Click to expand...
Give 'em a Varies rating from from Tier 7/6 to somewhere in Tier 4 at peak.

Not certain on speed but MFTL+ travel speed on foot for the whole cast is definitely wack imo
 
Osemere said:
We already have one.
Click to expand...
vsbattles.com

Power of Bonds ≥ Power of Love CRT (Mario Series)

A short, simple, straightforward CRT to update the Power of Love To be equivalent to the Power of Bonds, and key them as the same thing. The Pure Hearts have Abstract Existence, presenting themselves as love taken form. It is known to exist across the entire cosmology. Bonds encompass love and...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com


Osemere said:
And then this infinite 5D bulk (at least iirc by the current standards, this is being debated upon currently though, but would still prob follow for Paper Mario statement & Matter Splatter Galaxy) per the Galaxy 1 ending and the Galaxy 2 Lu & Mari storybook is cyclically wiped by universe-ending black holes eventually before a new big bang. So that’s a 6D hypertimeline right there. (And that’s before adding all the Paper Mario stuff like Flipside, etc. There’s also Mari remembering Lu between the cycles through their connection which could be cheesed with bond-stuff. Also Reclusa is seemingly another guy reincarnating between different universes and I’m not sure how Culex ties into this at all.)
Click to expand...
Also the fact that Reclusa is appearing in conversations this rarely is frying me, he scales to all the stuff from Galaxy 2 AS WELL AS the Gentle Pull💀
I salute you for your contribution.
 
Galactidot said:
vsbattles.com

Power of Bonds ≥ Power of Love CRT (Mario Series)

A short, simple, straightforward CRT to update the Power of Love To be equivalent to the Power of Bonds, and key them as the same thing. The Pure Hearts have Abstract Existence, presenting themselves as love taken form. It is known to exist across the entire cosmology. Bonds encompass love and...
vsbattles.com vsbattles.com



Also the fact that Reclusa is appearing in conversations this rarely is frying me, he scales to all the stuff from Galaxy 2 AS WELL AS the Gentle Pull💀
I salute you for your contribution.
Click to expand...
Gentle Pull seems like flowery purple prose IMO (although I’m not really that well-read on the arguments that could be made since I haven’t played those sections in a while; seems like the general idea could be subsumed into bonds). Why would Reclusa scale to the Galaxy 2 stuff?

And anyway, yeah. 5D for Pure Hearts is genuinely doable just based on what’s currently accepted and 6D is plausible given the Galaxy 2 universe-cycle stuff. Could be done If the effort is mustered to make a good blog here.
 
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Osemere said:
Gentle Pull seems like flowery purple prose IMO (although I’m not really that well-read on the arguments that could be made since I haven’t played those sections in a while; seems like the general idea could be subsumed into bonds). Why would Reclusa scale to the Galaxy 2 stuff?
Click to expand...
In short, Reclusa has withstood countless cycles, and is capable of killing everybody in Mario's world
 
Galactidot said:
In short, Reclusa has withstood countless cycles, and is capable of killing everybody in Mario's world
Click to expand...
That would just scale him to the universes being reborn in the cycle, not the timeline enveloping the cycle. The brothers defeating him using bond-power could make them scale to the timeline though assuming you make the case that it’s an UES enveloping the entire setting which would include the Pure Hearts, which could probably be supplemented by assuming the Gentle Pull stuff (transcending space, time, and the laws of the universe) just is another way of talking about bond-power. Add in Culex talking about the ‘power of love’ being above him despite his boasts of transcending time and coming from a different universe or whatever and you have a good case.

Oh, and also, the Galaxy 2 storybook has Mari remembering Lu (her twin) throughout the cycles just by focusing on the love they had together, despite being in an entirely different reincarnate universe. So bond-power transcending the universal-resets makes sense, and it counteracting the Chaos Heart which was going to wipe out all dimensions forever (no more resets/cycles of pain) would mean it would be affecting the mechanism responsible for rebooting everything.
 
Osemere said:
That would just scale him to the universes being reborn in the cycle, not the timeline enveloping the cycle. The brothers defeating him using bond-power could make them scale to the timeline though assuming you make the case that it’s an UES enveloping the entire setting which would include the Pure Hearts, which could probably be supplemented by assuming the Gentle Pull stuff (transcending space, time, and the laws of the universe) just is another way of talking about bond-power. Add in Culex talking about the ‘power of love’ being above him despite his boasts of transcending time and coming from a different universe or whatever and you have a good case.

Oh, and also, the Galaxy 2 storybook has Mari remembering Lu (her twin) throughout the cycles just by focusing on the love they had together, despite being in an entirely different reincarnate universe. So bond-power transcending the universal-resets makes sense, and it counteracting the Chaos Heart which was going to wipe out all dimensions forever (no more resets/cycles of pain) would mean it would be affecting the mechanism responsible for rebooting everything.
Click to expand...
Culex says WHAT
 
Speaking of, Reclusa says this stuff in the Japanese version of Brothership, instead of the stuff in the English version




"最大最強無敵の存在となるのだ～！！ キュラララララ！！！"

"I will become the greatest, strongest, most invincible being!! Kyurarararara!!!"

(He claims to be the strongest being, presumably that the Bros have faced)



It's made more clear in Japanese that Reclusa directly creates his dream worlds inspired by his victims, which is why Mario and Luigi's wasn't perfect

(From a Japanese Wiki)

不気味なオーラを纏った鈴蘭とコンセントを合わさせたような機械的な花を頭に被せ、拘束者の理想を基にボッチアーニ自身が創り出した一人だけの「夢」の世界をVRゴーグルのように映し出し、人々は孤独のまま、やがて誰も気付かぬうちに世界は穏やかに終焉を迎える、というもの。

A mechanical flower resembling a lily of the valley fused with an electrical outlet, shrouded in an eerie aura, was placed upon their heads. Like VR goggles, it projected a solitary “dream” world created by Bocciani himself based on the ideals of the captor. People remained alone within it, and eventually, unnoticed by anyone, the world came to a peaceful end.
 
Also because I don’t have anywhere to put this,

In Mario RPG against Culex in his ‘dimensional rift’ between his own universe and Mario’s, you can use Earlier Times, implying a separate temporal axis. And in SPM, I think you can use Stop Watch in Flipside, which is also in the ‘in-between’ space of all dimensions.

(Yes this is the exact same argument used for DBS and Sonic 5D stuff IIRC.)
 
Osemere said:
Also because I don’t have anywhere to put this,

In Mario RPG against Culex in his ‘dimensional rift’ between his own universe and Mario’s, you can use Earlier Times, implying a separate temporal axis. And in SPM, I think you can use Stop Watch in Flipside, which is also in the ‘in-between’ space of all dimensions.

(Yes this is the exact same argument used for DBS and Sonic 5D stuff IIRC.)
Click to expand...
We should make a CRT for this stuff and Reclusa <v<
 
IDK3465 said:
Ignoring whatever is currently accepted on site and whatever site rules you may disagree with, where would you scale the Mario cast if it were purely just up to your personal opinion/interpretation?
Click to expand...
Reading the previous inputs from today felt like I was reading 2018 DB Scaling, harsh. Anyways.

Varies between 3-C to Low 2-C for base forms, maybe 2-C ?
2-A to possibly low 1-C With PH. Possibly immeasurable for base forms?
usually mftl all around
 
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As an aside, shouldn’t the Star Spirits be 2-A due to creating the Dream Depot? No one would really scale to them except Bowser with the Star Rod, maybe.
 
Osemere said:
As an aside, shouldn’t the Star Spirits be 2-A due to creating the Dream Depot? No one would really scale to them except Bowser with the Star Rod, maybe.
Click to expand...
Reclusa because they can't beat him and he makes dream worlds of his own of equal magnitude (how can I make this about Reclusa)
 
OrangeFR said:
So the calc for the Millennium Star's speed from Mario party 3 comes from something off site rn. Doesn't that mean it needs a recalc in a blog now? I thought it was against wiki standards rn for calcs to be off-site.
Click to expand...
Wish the Millennium star feat was applicable. The japanese version of MP3 mentions that the star accidentally fell, so it's therefore unintentional travel speed I doubt anyone scales to. Bummer
 
Osemere said:
As an aside, shouldn’t the Star Spirits be 2-A due to creating the Dream Depot? No one would really scale to them except Bowser with the Star Rod, maybe.
Click to expand...
Would need to prove the creation scales with like UES for that feat specifically rather than like hax. Magic wishing items like the star rod should scale (and in some respect their power null would) if the star spirits hyped it to do all tasks but it's not direct since it's their counterparts.
 
Mephistus said:
Would need to prove the creation scales with like UES for that fear specifically rather than like hax. Magic wishing items like the star rod should scale (and in some respect their power null would) if the star spirits hyped it to do all tasks but it's not direct.
Click to expand...
I was thinking more of ‘under UES dream/star-power being proven’ thing, but obviously that’s not accepted now. I was also thinking about the prayers of Peach and the other friendly characters in PM64 empowering the Star Spirits to upgrade the Star Beam to overpower the Star Rod also being an interesting thing under UES, under that logic you could argue the dream-power of an entire kingdom being a non-finite increase to something arguably 2-A (of course, arguing that the Star Rod scales to the creation feat).
 
Starsprite53 said:
Ngl I may make a CRT on my own in the future, I'm not satisfied with the conclusion as both sides seem to rush in conclusions and make judgement
Click to expand...
Yeah, Im sorry if it's annoying, but something needs to come from Reclusa, especially considering what we now know!
 
Armorchompy said:
i'm tired, boss
Click to expand...
Sorry XD
I mean, we haven't ever reached a conclusion on him, and there's some stuff popping up that recontextualizes conflicts in both the first and second threads

Post in thread 'Super Mario General Discussion Thread.' https://vsbattles.com/threads/super-mario-general-discussion-thread.126259/post-7582351

Post in thread 'Super Mario General Discussion Thread.' https://vsbattles.com/threads/super-mario-general-discussion-thread.126259/post-7582368
 
These CRT talks do remind me that I actually need to make that CRT to downgrade Grand Star Bowser, I've had it ready to go for like 2 weeks now
 
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