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Super Mario General Discussion Thread.

DaReaperMan said:
As a wise man once said: it is not hard to solo a Raid Boss if you have the proper equipment!

Or if you just steal the other guy's everything.
Click to expand...
Bro has Hydra

DaReaperMan said:
But Mario is amped by uh... starbites...!

Please ignore that they're on opposite ends of the growth cycle and thus makes no sense for them to be at all comparable to eachother. And that that's probably not their name I just can't be ****** to look it up
Click to expand...

He either scales or has plot armor, that's how it works around here
 
rha09Is.png

Mario
 
DaReaperMan said:
Would be a real shame if Rafaam stole everything it had and beat it to death with it.
Click to expand...
Hydra can knock out Magolor by touching him not even joking

Hydra one taps Kirby and lives in the earths core, he'll be fine!

What bro gonna steal, patches? (Yeah probably but Hydra vaporizes upon contact)

(Why are we Aurascaling and Powerscaling Hearthstone and Kirby characters in the Mario thread)
 
IDK3465 said:
I may or may not’ve just found a relativistic travel speed feat, it all just depends on what the manual says about these things
Click to expand...
Skimming the page:

Mario Kart 8 / Mario Kart 8 Deluxe​

See also: Lava Bowser
Bowser Statues that shoot lasers from Super Mario Bros. 3 appear in Mario Kart 8 and Mario Kart 8 Deluxe called Laser Statues.[7]

"'Laser Statues: While not active during Lap 1, the last two laps activate Bowser statues that fire lasers onto the track." – Musa, Alexander (May 30, 2014). Mario Kart 8 PRIMA Official Game Guide. Prima Games (American English). ISBN 978-0-804-16328-6. Page 130.

Bowser Statues in Bowser's Castle in Mario Kart 8 Deluxe
Laser Statues in Bowser's Castle



Oh, & there's also the mention of a boss in Mario Tennis Aces.

Mario Tennis Aces
A single Bowser Statue appears a boss in Mario Tennis Aces, fought at Bowser's Castle in the mission Battle the Treasure Guardian!. In battle, the Bowser Statue deploys a forcefield around itself, and launches sets of three fireballs at Mario which must be knocked back; if a fireball is not lobbed back, it becomes a stage hazard. The Bowser Statue will then fire a laser beam that sets the ground ablaze, finishing by firing a giant purple fireball which can be knocked back to deal lots of damage. The Bowser Statue will repeat this process until it is out of health, in which Mario must avoid the oncoming meteors to perform a Zone Shot at the statue's mouth. The statue will then repeatedly shoot streams of fire at Mario, then repeat its ball-serving mechanics, except it will more evenly space out the fireballs it shoots. After Mario fires a Zone Shot at it a second time, it will shoot streams of fire again, except perform a sweeping motion with them. It will then repeat the same ball-serving mechanics it used in the second phase.

After Mario performs the third and final Zone Shot at the Bowser Statue, the Power Stone in its mouth will seemingly disintegrate, and a corrupted Wario and Waluigi take the Power Stone.


IDK how much credit that's worth. Is Prima guide original language, or would we need the original, presumably Japanese version?
& how much credit do we give them for being lasers? From what I can see, they're certainly straight lines of light.
 
Imaginym said:
Skimming the page:

Mario Kart 8 / Mario Kart 8 Deluxe​

See also: Lava Bowser
Bowser Statues that shoot lasers from Super Mario Bros. 3 appear in Mario Kart 8 and Mario Kart 8 Deluxe called Laser Statues.[7]

"'Laser Statues: While not active during Lap 1, the last two laps activate Bowser statues that fire lasers onto the track." – Musa, Alexander (May 30, 2014). Mario Kart 8 PRIMA Official Game Guide. Prima Games (American English). ISBN 978-0-804-16328-6. Page 130.

Bowser Statues in Bowser's Castle in Mario Kart 8 Deluxe's Castle in Mario Kart 8 Deluxe
Laser Statues in Bowser's Castle



Oh, & there's also the mention of a boss in Mario Tennis Aces.

Mario Tennis Aces
A single Bowser Statue appears a boss in Mario Tennis Aces, fought at Bowser's Castle in the mission Battle the Treasure Guardian!. In battle, the Bowser Statue deploys a forcefield around itself, and launches sets of three fireballs at Mario which must be knocked back; if a fireball is not lobbed back, it becomes a stage hazard. The Bowser Statue will then fire a laser beam that sets the ground ablaze, finishing by firing a giant purple fireball which can be knocked back to deal lots of damage. The Bowser Statue will repeat this process until it is out of health, in which Mario must avoid the oncoming meteors to perform a Zone Shot at the statue's mouth. The statue will then repeatedly shoot streams of fire at Mario, then repeat its ball-serving mechanics, except it will more evenly space out the fireballs it shoots. After Mario fires a Zone Shot at it a second time, it will shoot streams of fire again, except perform a sweeping motion with them. It will then repeat the same ball-serving mechanics it used in the second phase.

After Mario performs the third and final Zone Shot at the Bowser Statue, the Power Stone in its mouth will seemingly disintegrate, and a corrupted Wario and Waluigi take the Power Stone.


IDK how much credit that's worth. Is Prima guide original language, or would we need the original, presumably Japanese version?
& how much credit do we give them for being lasers? From what I can see, they're certainly straight lines of light.
Click to expand...
I mean, if the Prima guide's name for them is accepted, I'd say that'd be enough to count it under our light standards (travels in a straight line, explicitly called a laser/light beam, damages objects via heat, overall acts realistically, etc.).
 
Armorchompy said:
Aren't those just hitscan in the game?
Click to expand...
What do you mean by hitscan? & in which game?
The Mario Wiki page says they've been in a lot of games. I quoted the section about MK because it cites an excerpt from Prima:
"'Laser Statues: While not active during Lap 1, the last two laps activate Bowser statues that fire lasers onto the track." – Musa, Alexander (May 30, 2014). Mario Kart 8 PRIMA Official Game Guide. Prima Games (American English). ISBN 978-0-804-16328-6. Page 130.

About the MTA stuff?
In the image?

Pardon any bother, please.
 
Imaginym said:
What do you mean by hitscan? & in which game?
The Mario Wiki page says they've been in a lot of games. I quoted the section about MK because it cites an excerpt from Prima:
"'Laser Statues: While not active during Lap 1, the last two laps activate Bowser statues that fire lasers onto the track." – Musa, Alexander (May 30, 2014). Mario Kart 8 PRIMA Official Game Guide. Prima Games (American English). ISBN 978-0-804-16328-6. Page 130.

About the MTA stuff?
In the image?

Pardon any bother, please.
Click to expand...
As someone who grew up with Mario Kart Wii... yes, those lasers are hitscan. And literally telegraphed if you're fast enough to see their start-up.
 
Last edited:
Imaginym said:
What do you mean by hitscan? & in which game?
The Mario Wiki page says they've been in a lot of games. I quoted the section about MK because it cites an excerpt from Prima:
"'Laser Statues: While not active during Lap 1, the last two laps activate Bowser statues that fire lasers onto the track." – Musa, Alexander (May 30, 2014). Mario Kart 8 PRIMA Official Game Guide. Prima Games (American English). ISBN 978-0-804-16328-6. Page 130.

About the MTA stuff?
In the image?

Pardon any bother, please.
Click to expand...
Hitscan: no visible travel time. They just travel the entire distance in one game frame. Meaning speed can't be scaled to them.
 
DaReaperMan said:
As someone who grew up with Mario Kart Wii... yes, those lasers are hitscan. And literally telegraphed if you're fast enough to see their start-up.
Click to expand...
Armorchompy said:
Hitscan: no visible travel time. They just travel the entire distance in one game frame. Meaning speed can't be scaled to them.
Click to expand...
Ah, thanks.

Well, considering they're the same kind of enemy across multiple games, & are identified by that name, maybe the description/name could be relevant for versions of it in other games?
Failing that, would have to look for other statements or such about them.
 
Ok so the ones in Mario 3 aren't hitscan so you can compare Mario/Luigi's running speed to them, but given every other appearance of the statues and their beams are hitscan I don't think the SMB3 version alone is gonna be enough to justify a travel speed rating like that.
 
You might be able to do it as a combat speed feat, frankly travel speed is weird when it comes to platformers but I wouldn't scale it to how fast he runs/jumps in gameplay
 
Armorchompy said:
You might be able to do it as a combat speed feat, frankly travel speed is weird when it comes to platformers but I wouldn't scale it to how fast he runs/jumps in gameplay
Click to expand...
This, yeah. Only reason I can say Travel speed is equivalent to Combat Speed in something like Super Meat Boy is the fact that Meat Boy, Bandage Girl, and Dr. Fetus move and jump and attack in combat with no change to their speed.
 
DaReaperMan said:
This, yeah. Only reason I can say Travel speed is equivalent to Combat Speed in something like Super Meat Boy is the fact that Meat Boy, Bandage Girl, and Dr. Fetus move and jump and attack in combat with no change to their speed.
Click to expand...
Well that'd be the case for Mario too, my problem is that usually the travel/combat speed difference as we create it isn't actually depicted (same as reactions vs combat), it's more an abstraction we create, and IDK if just moving aside from a shot is enough to exit that. But guess at worst it'd have to be burst combat speed.
 
Dust_Collector said:
Ok so the ones in Mario 3 aren't hitscan so you can compare Mario/Luigi's running speed to them, but given every other appearance of the statues and their beams are hitscan I don't think the SMB3 version alone is gonna be enough to justify a travel speed rating like that.
Click to expand...
Armorchompy said:
Well that'd be the case for Mario too, my problem is that usually the travel/combat speed difference as we create it isn't actually depicted (same as reactions vs combat), it's more an abstraction we create, and IDK if just moving aside from a shot is enough to exit that. But guess at worst it'd have to be burst combat speed.
Click to expand...
Well, it was worth a try, I guess
If anyone still wants to calc it, here's the link ig
 
Spent about 10 mins just grabbing speed related stuff I recall off the top of me noggin'
And then there's the MFTL+ feats in the Galaxy duology of course.
 
Dust_Collector said:
Spent about 10 mins just grabbing speed related stuff I recall off the top of me noggin'
And then there's the MFTL+ feats in the Galaxy duology of course.
Click to expand...
What is it with the Mario sports and party spinoffs and giving us the most BS anti-feats known to man?
 
IDK3465 said:
What is it with the Mario sports and party spinoffs and giving us the most BS anti-feats known to man?
Click to expand...
It's really funny because they also give us some of the best feats in the series lmao, kinda crazy how Mario Party 4 had a single power star casually rearrange hundreds of stars for the sole purpose of making a constellation in the shape of whoever you beat the story mode with.
 
Dust_Collector said:
It's really funny because they also give us some of the best feats in the series lmao, kinda crazy how Mario Party 4 had a single power star casually rearrange hundreds of stars for the sole purpose of making a constellation in the shape of whoever you beat the story mode with.
Click to expand...
Technically Stars in Mario Party are never referred to as Power Stars.
 
Dust_Collector said:
Spent about 10 mins just grabbing speed related stuff I recall off the top of me noggin'
And then there's the MFTL+ feats in the Galaxy duology of course.
Click to expand...
Not going to quote line by line but most of these are calculated, here's some dollars for your thoughts🙃
  • https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Mephistus/Super_Mario_Bros_3_speed_feat (32.99% SoL, relativistic, but has issues concerning 'real' light standards, assuming it is a 'real' nough laser, because there was discredit on this calculation by Armorchompy (ignoring the prima guide usability biz (which I'm still in agreement with using due to these insufficient standards on canon) these are called lasers coming from the "84 pages of inside information straight from the pros at Nintendo", the statues should have like, robotic insides)
  • Even taking into account the full 5 seconds; and going by Kármán line distance of about 100,000 meters (give or take the negligible island height); Raven would be going 20,000 m/s or Mach 58.3
  • The remake really gutted the bros reacting to her lightning feat, the prior game had natural looking (blue) lightning fall down from the sky and the bros very handily reacted to it while jumping. I'd argue it being purple is too much suspension of belief on it being natural in the remake.
  • The problem with this is the transition showing the beams going between the mirrors is instantaneous (see luigi rub his nose), but there are directly impressive stuff; https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Mephistus/Mario_Partying_at_Light_Speed (34.86% SoL, relativistic, called light directly and seemingly only weird thing is it reflects off those weird walls, which can be overlooked) & https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Mephistus/Mario_Partying_Faster_Than_Light_Speed (1.239 x SoL, FTL, called light directly and burns orange on contact like the other feat)
  • Most of the instantaneous stuff also happens with some magic lightning in most Paper Mario Games, there's an assortment of lightning from everything from Bowser's star rod to the funny Ruff Puff clouds doing non-ball lightning, they can be reacted and (super)guarded against though, I guess since. Mr. I has a laser ray(not a Japanese fluent but its described in the same manner as optics / light is, and its well, a luminous beam?) (レーザー光線) according to the Japanese Mario Party 5 official guide collaborated/supervised by Nintendo, that would be impressive travel speed around 3 x SoL.
  • Doing some math with the escape velocity near the black hole; 11,008,1467 m/s would be the speed for being 49.2301 meters away from a 4.469335268458861224637789731E27 kg black hole.
  • Not sure if the rocket speed fully works due to the scene cut, the next fade to black it shows DK already high up in the clouds and its kinda independent of DK with it being a vehicle. There is another nice feat in Mario Party where they fly past the Earth from the Moon while reacting to balloons that's easy relativistic tier with vehicles (around ~6% SoL, maybe more or less depending on where you start counting seconds due to perspective).
  • Rosalina's second kick not being equivalent to the second is funny since everyone reacts to the ball reaching the goal and she's reacting to kicking its return trip, but ignoring that, it's been calculated at about 65.9 x SoL for the ball. Independent from that the solar system for Mario's planet shouldn't be Earth's, it could be a planet in their system still, not in another.
  • There's Shroob UFO's (also a guidebook statement and alluded by the place not having starlight in the script being a place outside the universe in the Nintendo Guide) travelling to Mario's planet in at least some degree of FTL speed. Even their crashing speed can be reacted to in Elder Shroob's boss fight, although I'm more agreeable to stuff like Jr's Clown Car being outpaced by a bullied Bowser Jr in Dream Team in his secret boss fight with it malfunctioning; still hard to say its like the two vehicle's top speed and all in that particular scene since we gotta prove its actually happening. Tatanga's ship and this guy travelled from the outside of the (non-infinite 😅) cosmos, and supposedly was outside the universe. The ship and that enemy is reacted to by Mario in a spacesuit and his skypop, respectively and exterminated.
  • This has a pretty good compilation, although there may be deviating standards, some of the one's mentioned are covered/invalidated. Also pretty sure we want to outline which ones aren't "travel" speed.
  • Galaxy 3 & 4 would help consistency, but they ran out of ideas and don't want to give Rosalina a solo game.
 
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So from what I'm gathering here on the above posts, taking them at face value for the sake of this list (I do disagree with a decent number of these, and objectively some of these don't cut it by this sites standards like the Sumo Bros, Wario Land, and NSMB lightning dodge feats where the lightning size makes it so they ain't as fast as normal lightning, but will give my personal thoughts about the feats I disagree with a bit later).

Massively FTL+ Feats:
  • Power Stars, Grand Stars, and Launch Stars allow travel across galaxies and even the universe in a short amount of time
  • Tatanga "appeared suddenly from deep space"
  • Power Star rearranges hundreds of stars
  • Shroob's UFO speed
Massively FTL Feats:
  • Dodging the Angry Sun in SMB3 (Ok I know I said I'd give my thoughts and disagreements later but like this is clearly not the actual sun lmao, this ain't noteworthy I'm just putting here because I think it's funny)
FTL+ Feats:
  • Rosalina's Super Strike
FTL Feats:
  • Outpacing Mr. I's beams
  • Characters dodging "light waves" in Light-Wave Battle
Relativistic+ Feats:
  • Dodging Magikoopa blasts in SMW, which are called "flashes of light" (In the ENG manual anyway, will need to check the original JP manual)
Relativistic Feats:
  • Mario / Luigi's speed compared to Bowser Statue beams in SMB3
  • Characters dodging beams in Ray of Fright
  • Characters attempting to avoid the black hole in Black Hole Boogie
  • Luigi tosses and pulls large cords in the Conductor Connector Bros. Attack
  • Wario's speed compared to laser beams
  • Koopa Clown Car flies to Bowser's space station next to the sun in Mario Party 8 (This could be anywhere from Sub-Relativistic to FTL but timeframe isn't clear beyond being implied to be quite a short amount of time)
Sub-Relativistic Feats:
  • Bye Bye Cannon launches Mario and Luigi around the world
  • Characters piloting and dodging astroids mid flight while flying to a planet in Asteroid Rage
Massively Hypersonic+ Feats:
  • Mario runs across most of the moons surface in a few seconds (Again, I know I said I'd give my thoughts later but world map stuff is wonky at best)
  • Outpacing Sumo Brothers lightning attacks
Massively Hypersonic Feats:
  • Mario/Luigi's speed compared to Lakithunders lightning bolts
  • Wario dodges lightning bolts
  • King K. Rool flies from the centre of the planet to the surface
Hypersonic+ Feats:
  • Raphael the Raven flies to the moon
The most notable Anti-Feats for FTL speed:
  • Bowser statue beams are hitscan in Tennis Aces, Mario's speed (Including how fast he swings and dodges) isn't even comparable
  • Bowser statue beams are hitscan in Mario Kart 7, the characters speed (Including how fast they can attack / react to incoming attacks) isn't even comparable
  • Movement of reflected sunlight beams in Superstar Saga are instant compared to Mario and Luigi (Except for one time where it's visibly moving to them)
  • Natural lightning bolts being hitscan and the characters speed (Including how fast they can attack / react to incoming attacks) isn't even comparable in the following:
    • Super Mario Kart​
    • Mario Kart 64​
    • Mario Kart Super Circuit​
    • Mario Kart Double Dash​
    • Mario Kart DS​
    • Mario Kart Wii​
    • Mario Kart 7​
    • Mario Kart 8​
    • Mario Kart Tour​
    • Mario Kart World (The Mario Kart games double as anti-feats for quad digit mach speeds I guess)​
Other Feats:
  • DK piloting and dodges asteroids while chasing King K. Rools spaceship (Timeframe is unclear due to a jumpcut mid level but the ship is shown to be far enough from the planet space that this should get very good results, like I'm 99% sure this would hit double digit mach even with a conservative timeframe)
Cannot be arsed to count subsonic or supersonic feats atm, I'm going back to my playthough of DBZ Budokai 3.
 
So my thoughts on the feats I don't think are viable, the Tatanga feat I think is fine for his ships top speed but I don't think we can assume he's using it's full flight speed when fighting Mario since he's using it for combat instead of just flying across space. Same with the Shroobs UFO speed and the Koopa Clown car.

Power Star moving stars is fine, but there's no good way to scale it to anyone. Angry Sun like I already said that ain't the real sun lol. Mr I's beams I'm not sure how applicable the MP5 guide is for the ones seen in the Paper Mario universe but ehhh I'm more on the fence with this one than outright disagreement with it. The lasers Wario dodges in Shake It don't seem to qualify by our laser standards, Nintendo Power supporting it is as mentioned several times very iffy.

Mario running across the moons surface is a no-go, we started fazing out world map scaling for feats a while ago for multiple reasons, in this case most obviously being that being able to cross the moon in a few seconds is contradicted by Mario taking several minutes to cross parts of his island in the actual levels. Sumo Brothers and Lakithunders bolts are too small to be considered as fast as normal lightning, same with the bolts Wario dodges so those aren't hitting the Massively Hypersonic range.

Kinda crazy how much their current speed ratings are hard carried by the Galaxy game feats.
 

Here's what all the Fever Rackets do. Nothing crazy but they do give a few cool abilities. Idk if there's anything else notable power scaling wise in Tennis Fever except maybe new Wonder Flower showings but I haven't seen those yet.
 
I pre-ordered Tennis Fever and Hoping that something interesting is revealed for the Baby versions of the Mario cast.
 
low key should I become the next villain of Mario power scaling on this site and nuke them to be slower than light? They don't have a whole lot going for speeds like that

The runtime for the Mario Galaxy movie has been revealed to be only 3 mins longer than the first, which given that the last one had pacing issues and tried cramming so much in there with less material than this one has, it makes me pretty worried the same issues are gonna be even more noticable here.
 
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