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Super Mario Bros: Major Revisions.

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3-C Star children? Wow, funny how we got a baby Galaxy level gorilla who grows up into a 8-C adult gorilla, and is 6-C by the time he retires. Cranky Kong is whom I'm referring to.
 
But wasn't Cranky Kong the original Donkey Kong from the original Mario? Plus, Gorillas do age faster than humans, so 24 is actually really old for a Gorilla.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
But wasn't Cranky Kong the original Donkey Kong from the original Mario? Plus, Gorillas do age faster than humans, so 24 is actually really old for a Gorilla.
Click to expand...
No, you are misunderstanding something. XD

Cranky Kong was once called Donkey Kong. He was a very strong leader and a very strong kong. However, when he met Mario and Pauline, he was already old, and he was renamed "Cranky Kong". He's the one who appearently fell in love with Pauline.

However, we know thans to recent games, that the actual DK (the one who appeared in DK vs Knucles) is Cranky's grandson, and as Yoshi's Islands confirmed, he's one of the seven children with a star in his heart, which grants him power far greater than the other beings in the verse (except of course Top tiers like Rosalina, Megabug and others).
 
I know Donkey Kong III is the one who appears in the Mario V Donkey Kong series, but the original Arcade 1981 Donkey Kong was Cranky Kong, and Donkey Kong Jr, who is still a baby monkey in the game her appears in, is Donkey Kong III's father. With that said, Mario was already an adult well before Donkey Kong III was even born.
 
Yes..but that is completely out of context. XD

Sorry if it sounds rude, but i don't see the point of writing this here. XD Still, the main question was answered (if that was a question i mean, i'm talking about "Is Cranky Kong the Star Child or on the other hand is DK?").
 
I think it makes a lot of sense for the characters to just be 3-C regularly for the same reasons we rated them 4-A before. And I have already addressed reasons in our last thread why the High 4-C low end doesn't need to exist.

As per the issues with Cranky Kong, he isn't a Star Child, and in the games he was in, he didn't genuinely scale to Mario. He definitely doesn't consistently scale to any one of the Star Children, nor should they be pinned down to his level.

We have already separated Donkey Kong's portrayals in his own continuity from his composite rating where he is a Star Child and scales to the other Star Children consistently, so there is no problem with his rating, either.
 
Comes form Mario Galaxy, the Lumas who turn into Power Stars can also turn into entire galaxies. And some Lumas transformed a planet into an entire galaxy ect.

@Hadou, yes, but that was until Azzy debunked them saying all of those 4-A feats where technically High 4-C, but Mario's lore is very inconsistent. Still, 3-C Mario will exist indeed, but not sure if it applies to their base stats.
 
Azathoth did not debunk all of them. Ones such as Bowser creating Tiny Huge Island and the realm created by the Triple Meteor technique in Paper Jam still exist.

To say that it shouldn't be their base stats is to deny that Mario is comparable to Lumas or to deny that Mario can defeat someone who is empowered by a Power Star, when we know these things are true.
 
I'm genuinely not sure about scaling to 3-C based on Lumas transforming into galaxies, simply because I'm not entirely positive this is an AP feat. Lumas can transform into planetoids or galaxies (or power stars), but they don't become some kind of living galaxy that is fully able to control itself, or something to that extent. They literally just become galaxies and then...exist.
 
Transforming into galaxies is still creating a galaxy, and we still consider galaxy creations Galaxy level feats.
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Transforming into galaxies is still creating a galaxy, and we still consider galaxy creations Galaxy level feats.
Click to expand...
But it's not a character using an ability to accomplish something. It's a luma, whose ability is to transform, becoming a completely inanimate galaxy. The luma would not have Galaxy level AP after becoming a galaxy, as it would literally just exist without actively doing anything.
 
They do still pretty much explode and then a galaxy appears. Creating a galaxy sized explosion is legitimately a Galaxy level AP feat; especially if it's either creating or destroying a galaxy.
 
Game mechanics says hi. So just because the explosions bigger than the galaxy on screen we assume it happens closer to the camera than the galaxy is when typically it doesn't explode until it reaches the destination? Welp, time to downgrade Silver Age Superman just because the Solar System he sneezed away was at best 50 feet in diameter on the page
 
DarkDragonMedeus said:
Game mechanics says hi. So just because the explosions bigger than the galaxy on screen we assume it happens closer to the camera than the galaxy is when typically it doesn't explode until it reaches the destination? Welp, time to downgrade Silver Age Superman just because the Solar System he sneezed away was at best 50 feet in diameter on the page
Click to expand...
1. That's not what game mechanics are.

2. That's not how perspective works.

3. I even provided you with a video of when and where the Luma stops moving, despite the galaxy being further out.
 
I'll just let Dino Ranger Black come back to elaborate on that. WeeklyBattles also did say that transforming into a galaxy is a 3-C feat.
 
Mario and Luigi should have the 3-C feat since they are able to defeat bosses such as Bowser, Bowser jr's machine, etc empowered by the Grand Star which are more powerful than the power stars and lumas
 
@Azzy

I don't recall the creation or transformation of a said location has to be living being or not in order to determine the AP or even being an issue to begin with. This seem as something to make things much more complicated than it ever was as such a rule was never established and it doesn't make sense to disregard it for such reasons, especially when there's already a verse dedicated to such. Turning into a galaxy is indeed an ability used by a character......the Lumas. It's clearly done on their own will and it require energy, or as Rosalina puts it, Star Power for them to become these celestial bodies as demostrated by the Hungry Lumas needing to be feed before doing so and they are indeed still sentient proven in Rosalina's storybook, the Luma transformed in a comet to travel across space with her.
 
^^ This.

Not to mention that Grand Stars are able to create a black hole strong enough to destroy World 6, which is at least the 3/4 of World 5 in size, and World 5 is made of several galaxies. Of course, you could say "but World 2 also looks as big as World 5, yet World 2 is just a Solar System". While that's true, that could be a game mechanic as well. After all, you are in a World Map, where everything seem of the same size. However, if you look closely in the World Map, the black hole seem to be even expanding, and his pulls are eveen reaching World 5, which proves that the black hole in World 6 is closing the gap between World 6 and World 5 (unlike the other worlds. The other worlds all have a determinated boundary (which you can see, it's basically a streak of the same colour of the world). Supporting that, there is also the fact thatWorld 6 is full (and when i say full, i mean FULL) of dark/purple nebulas. Hell, even the levels of World 6 are full of dark/purple nebulas. Those nebulas are Multi-Solar System sized, and considering the amount of them, even if we don't take into account that the black hole in World 6 is closing the gap between the two worlds (making it 3-C/3-B), the Black Hole in World 6 (which, btw, is only part of the entire World 6, meaning that World 6 as a whole is even bigger) should be 3-C.

Power Stars are indeed much weaker than Grand Stars, but it's a safe bet to say that the Power Stars are at least 3-C, especially since all the other 3-C feats that support 3-C Power Stars.
 
May I ask for the exact source of how the power stars have created the realms within the paintings? A screenshot would be appreciated. I'm not saying I disbelieve or disagree, but this wiki is the only place I've heard this claim. It's not mentioned in the manual, and I haven't seen it in the game, and so I really don't know where the source has come from. Before I blindly follow the crowd and play along as I have been doing, could I actually see some [solid?] evidence for this claim? If I can get that out of the way, I'll be happy to cover the rest of this issue (and I agree the profiles are in serious need of a make-over), but I'd really like to cover something that's been bothering me for a while first.

Thanks in advanced.
 
Okay. So... just looking at the main topic of the blog, for now, I have a few things I disagree with. However, what I do agree with is Daisy scaling, and Waluigi scaling via Sports Mix seems perfectly fine to me, as he can tank hits and specials from other characters, as especially evident in Dodgeball, and can deal equal damage to them. I also agree Paper Jam Bros created weird, unnecessary confusion, but our profile for Paper Mario wasn't really related to him beforehand, so not sure why we should isolate him. Plus, Mario is so inconsistent in feats, both above and below Tier 4, and you sometimes have to look at him in isolation. I don't like the idea of this wiki going from opting not to go down the isolation route, to now doing so for one guy. But hey, that's just me. What will happen to the current ratings of the profile however? (i.e. for the artifacts.) Where do they go?

"Since most of these issues are associated with the Power Stars, it would be best if we rate the characters on feats without them involved." "This will result in a massive downgrade, so most of the recurring characters will be changed from Multi-Solar System to Large Star. This applies to anybody who either fought or are scaled off them."
The principle of your idea makes sense, but as ArceusBowser44 and Dark649 point out, Mario has shown feats where he is capable of fighting those with Power Stars without having to be empowered himself. [Namely in Mario Galaxy and 3D World, where there isn't any implication that Mario is being empowered, and that Big/King Bob-Omb was fought before Mario even collected his first Power Star.] However, since people are skeptical, I guess this is fair enough to change if scaling to Power Star users is that controversial. This move in itself is also controversial, but I suppose it will make the majority of people happy. I guess maybe I'm nitpicking, but then I do have a more serious point:

As for Antasma, however, he may have created a dream world, but do we know for sure that it's large enough to contain a constellation in it? I understand it functions as a Luiginoid Generator, but is this necessary for Luiginary Attacks to work exactly?

"it's demonstrated again in Mario Party 2 where Toad gives it to the character of the player's choice to overpower Bowser and his metal transformation."
I always saw that as a Starman, personally. Is there anything that says it's a Power Star (Toad just refers to it as a star), or are we just assuming it's probably that? Is it because there's no music or flashing colours? If so, I have seen representations of Mario using the Starman without being all flashy before (World of Nintendo has the Official Nintendo Licensed Product mark on it, so it should be official), but counterarguments to the music I'm not as sure with. Still, better to be sure, I guess.

"Based off the current feats and stats of the Power Star itself, a Solar System to Galaxy level rating will be given to the characters empowered by these artifacts."
We didn't scale to Galaxy level beforehand, so I'm not really sure why we're doing so now? There probably was a reason it was done beforehand. Unfortunately, I was doing exams at the time of the upgrade, so I'm not sure entirely of this reason, but I feel we may have to look deeper into this than just saying "he can now scale to all tiers of the Power Star because why not".

Whilst this change does seem a little strange to me as a whole, I guess it's not too bad for the most part, other than this whole galaxy level issue, and a few sacrifices in scaling. If we can clear up these issues, I'd be happy to support it. Also, per Dark694 on Flat Mario.
 
I mean, your point make sense.

But i don't get why you guys all think that the scaling would be inconsistent.

The cases are two:

1) if people, for some reason, reject the big amount of 3-C feats Mario has done, then he (and the others who used the Power Stars) should be 3-C because, after all, he can still be empowered by those artifacts, and can collect power stars even after the end of SM64. (That is optional though).

2) Considering the massive amount of 3-C feats Mario has done without Power Stars, and considering Kamek's statement about the Star Children being that powerful (i could explain how the star in their heart make them 3-C, but i'll save that for later), Mario and the ones who scale (the other Star Children, for the simple fact that Kamek pretty much was comparing all the 7 Star Children, and he was also saying that they all had that powerful star in their heart and how powerful it was, implying that the Star Children are of equal power) should be "High 4-C to 3-C", because Mario has a massive amount of High 4-C and 3-C feats.

Again, the other Star Children scale to Mario. The others who fought Mario (mostly minor bossess/bossess that don't fully scale to Mario, mainly because again, the bossess Mario fought don't possess a star in their heart, thus they don't have extraordninary power like Mario has, thus they don't fully scale to Mario) should simply be High 4-C.

Hell, guys, the answer is actually right before our eyes. Kamek basically stated that not everyone really is as powerful as Mario. Only the other Star Children are. So, it makes perfect sense if the other characters are rated only "High 4-C", while Mario is rated "High 4-C to 3-C".
 
Anyway, i really should go to bed considering the timezone in my country. If i can be of help, i'll reply tomorrow. See ya everyone!
 
@ArceusBowser44

So... what about characters who are explicitly superior to the star children? For example, everyone who captures Princess Peach in a game. Or what about characters that fight alongside the Star Children, the biggest ones being Yoshi and Waluigi.
 
@DRB

The issue is the fact that this is assumed to scale to the Luma's general power, which is not the case. The logic goes "Lumas can turn into galaxies, planetoids, or power stars, therefore anyone with power stars scales to 3-C". This assumes that power stars thus grant 3-C AP on their own, when I can't think of anything that suggests this. If a character becomes as big as a galaxy or even turns into some sort of sentient galaxy able to control itself, that's another story. But if a character just turns into a galaxy and simply exists, that is not AP which should suddenly scale to anyone who uses an object somehow related to said character.
 
@Azz Hmm.....if it's ok with you, could you provide a better elaboration on this because I still don't understand the issue. When discussing about the destruction or creation of a particular object, the main factors that should taken when considering the feat is legitimacy, accuracy, and size proportion. Sentience isn't related since it has no contribution in performing the feat except for life. Unless this done against the Lumas' will or some sort of suicidal move, I somewhat understand as unwilling or unintentional feats or last resorts could make a character/vehicle weaker or stronger than they actually are. I'm also not sure wether you are implying when they transform, they fade from existence, no longer alive, die, or can't do so or change back at will because none are the case. They are still capable of communication when they transform as seen with the Luma who turned into a Launch Star. Same with the Luma that turned into a comet.

@Maverick Zero X

Actually, the feats originated from the Galaxy game. It's just further supported by it's sequel.
 
GyroNutz said:
@ArceusBowser44
So... what about characters who are explicitly superior to the star children? For example, everyone who captures Princess Peach in a game. Or what about characters that fight alongside the Star Children, the biggest ones being Yoshi and Waluigi.
Click to expand...
 
Azathoth the Abyssal Idiot said:
@DRB
The issue is the fact that this is assumed to scale to the Luma's general power, which is not the case. The logic goes "Lumas can turn into galaxies, planetoids, or power stars, therefore anyone with power stars scales to 3-C". This assumes that power stars thus grant 3-C AP on their own, when I can't think of anything that suggests this. If a character becomes as big as a galaxy or even turns into some sort of sentient galaxy able to control itself, that's another story. But if a character just turns into a galaxy and simply exists, that is not AP which should suddenly scale to anyone who uses an object somehow related to said character.
Click to expand...
Still, this is somewhat pretty irrelevant. After all, Power Stars have another 3-C feat (which comes from scaling, but it's a fair scaling, so yeah).

The other feat:

Grand Stars are able to create a black hole strong enough to destroy World 6, which is at least the 3/4 of World 5 in size, and World 5 is made of several galaxies. Of course, you could say "but World 2 also looks as big as World 5, yet World 2 is just a Solar System". While that's true, that could be a game mechanic as well. After all, you are in a World Map, where everything seem of the same size. However, if you look closely in the World Map, the black hole seem to be even expanding, and his pulls are eveen reaching World 5, which proves that the black hole in World 6 is closing the gap between World 6 and World 5 (unlike the other worlds. The other worlds all have a determinated boundary (which you can see, it's basically a streak of the same colour of the world). Supporting that, there is also the fact thatWorld 6 is full (and when i say full, i mean FULL) of dark/purple nebulas. Hell, even the levels of World 6 are full of dark/purple nebulas. Those nebulas are Multi-Solar System sized, and considering the amount of them, even if we don't take into account that the black hole in World 6 is closing the gap between the two worlds (making it 3-C/3-B), the Black Hole in World 6 (which, btw, is only part of the entire World 6, meaning that World 6 as a whole is even bigger) should be 3-C.

Power Stars are indeed much weaker than Grand Stars, but it's a safe bet to say that the Power Stars are at least 3-C, especially since all the other 3-C feats that support 3-C Power Stars.


Not just that, but potentially, Mario could be 3-C on his own because he has got a star in his heart. Why would that be 3-C?


Kamek confirmed that they all have a star in their heart, and that star can grant them extraordinary power that let them take "over the universe" (likely an hyperbole though). The most important part here is that the Star Children have a star in their heart.


The concept of stars seems to be pretty common and powerful in the Marioverse. The Star being the most powerful item, the Power Stars, the advanced version of the latters (Grand Stars), and finally, Mario, Luigi, Peach, Wario, Yoshi, DK and Bowser having a star in their heart, a star that appearently grant them some sort of OP powers.

Because of Kamek's statement, i think it is fair to scale the Star Children (who possess that very powerful Star in their heart) to the Power Stars and Grand Stars. Of course, Power Stars and Grand Stars are artifcats so they shouldn't technically be scaled to the Star Children, however, they are still artifacts made by stars. Lumas, for example, are little stars that can turn in meteors, actual stars, galaxies and Power Stars. So, the Power Stars's essence is still a star, technically.

Sorry if this sound kind of stupid, btw. XD

Anyway, back to topic. The Grand Stars are basically advanced versions of the Power Stars, and the Grand Stars can create Low 2-C black holes. Mario, via Kamek's statement (that could be an hyperbole), could be around 3-B/3-A. Anyway, the star he has in his heart is still very powerful.

Still, my point is: of course, i'm not saying that Mario should scale to the Grand Stars, considering how above the latters are in terms of power, however considering how powerful the stars of the Star Children were described, i think they should at least scale to the Power Stars.

In addition, all the various 3-C feats Mario, Luigi, Yoshi and Bowser have done (and Peach, Wario and DK scale for the reasons i stated in the thread, and for the simple fact that Kamek pretty much was comparing all the 7 Star Children, and he was also saying that they all had that powerful star in their heart and how powerful it was, implying that the Star Children are of equal power) support 3-C Star Children

^^I'm not sure if this is valid enough, since we don't have concrete evidence, but that still shows that Mario is goddamn powerful, simply because of his nature as a Star Child.

Thus, it makes sense for Star Children to be FAR above the others (except of course characters like Rosalina and a few more). Because Kamek stated that Star Children have extraordinary power that "let them take over the universe", they have that much power that the others don't have.
 
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