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Sunday's Conceptual Manipulation & Abstract Existence Type 1 Additions (Honkai: Star Rail)

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Yeah, this should be straightforward enough as I have discussed this with Shiroiyo back then on discord to give a background here:
Agree: Enryu_The_Red_Tower (With all), WanderingGecko, Ar1216789, Eseseso (Except AE1), NARONG_SUVAN (Except CM1)
Neutral: Fixxed
Disagree: Valxxroyz
 
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Its just a hypothesis, clearly disagree.
It's straightforward enough, what are you on lmao

He's an embodiment of something that's conceptual and metaphysical, we already accepted aeons as AE1 before and the fact that he could manipulate those concepts too
 
Type 1 CM and Type 2 AE looks good to me. Idk where you got AE 1 though.
Harmonious Choir is built based off both Order & Harmony, pretty sure we already accepted AE1 for Aeons & IX's manifestation is also AE1

You can see here on Acheron's profile that she has NPI to AE1 even if it was a manifestation of IX

Also, you can't have AE2 if it's metaphysical in nature
 
Does he have any immortality from being abstract?
No, that's why if it was AE2 it wouldn't even have any benefits in the first place + the fact he was metaphysical in nature
I don’t see how being emanator relate to manipulate path.
I mean, Sunday was able to manipulate the power he was embodying in the first place
And this would be exclusive to Harmonious Choir, obviously
Other than that, Sunday really doesn't have anything

If I had to be honest, this would just scale to Sunday and not all Emanators as those would only get Limited CM1 due to manipulating their path which is the imaginary energy but Acheron should also get CM1 in later threads due to her being able to conceptually erase someone through Horizon of Existence
 
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No, that's why if it was AE2 it wouldn't even have any benefits in the first place + the fact he was metaphysical in nature
Oh I thought it’s AE2 sorry.

If AE 1 does story say something about his true form or anything? I remember that Aeons that AE1 because we known they from are just avatar. I don't know much about the story of Sunday, but didn't the Astral Express fight him? If he's AE 1, then we're fighting Avatar, right? And did the story mention thing about avatar?

I mean, Sunday was able to manipulate the power he was embodying in the first place
Did he manipulated Path or just imaginary power in Path? From databank emanator use power in same way as any pathstrider they just have permission and can access to more power.

If mortals receiving the grace of Aeons and grasping the power of Paths are viewed as a singular shattered foam, then the mighty feats of Aeons driving their Paths onwards can be likened to a towering tsunami that engulfs mountains. In this empty stellar vastness, a small number of favored mortals can also draw upon the power of the Paths with the permission of the Aeons, creating huge waves that erode the coast. They are referred to as "Emanators."
 
If AE 1 does story say something about his true form or anything? I remember that Aeons that AE1 because we known they from are just avatar. I don't know much about the story of Sunday, but didn't the Astral Express fight him? If he's AE 1, then we're fighting Avatar, right? And did the story mention thing about avatar?
I mean, it's an incarnation of Xipe so yeah it could be considered as an avatar and I'm pretty much sure Astral Express fighting him would just get NPI due to Robin
Did he manipulated Path or just imaginary power in Path? From databank emanator use power in same way as any pathstrider they just have permission and can access to more power.
The path itself, there's no explanations about him manipulating the imaginary powers there so yeah it should be as simple that he was embodying the path itself and he could manipulate it
 
I mean, it's an incarnation of Xipe so yeah it could be considered as an avatar and I'm pretty much sure Astral Express fighting him would just get NPI due to Robin
Fine i guess.


The path itself, there's no explanations about him manipulating the imaginary powers there so yeah it should be as simple that he was embodying the path itself and he could manipulate it
Manipulate imaginary powers from paths is basic ability for pathstrider and like I say from databank emanator seem to work same way but on bigger scale.

So for now agreed with AE1 but not CM.
 
Manipulate imaginary powers from paths is basic ability for pathstrider and like I say from databank emanator seem to work same way but on bigger scale.
Pathstrider doesn't even get imaginary energy manipulation tbh, it was exclusive to doomsday beast + cocolia (due to stellaron) only
 
I agree with this.

AE2 is for the embodiment of an abstraction, which fits the OP's description for Sunday
Is AE2 possible for something that's metaphysical in nature? If so, I might reconsider it tbh but again there's no benefit really
 
I agree with everything, but wait a moment, these descriptions of Harmonious Choir's 3 phase doesn't imply he would have eventually ascend into Aeonhood if Sunday had not been stopped?
 
I agree with everything, but wait a moment, these descriptions of Harmonious Choir's 3 phase doesn't imply he would have eventually ascend into Aeonhood if Sunday had not been stopped?
Harmonious Choir only refers to Sunday being one of the many embodiments of Xipe and Order's interference with it that makes Ena comes back again if this is what you meant

But yeah, the one that ascends into Aeonhood would probably be Ena considering how that was treated in the wiki themselves: "Originally assimilated into Xipe during Swarm Disaster, however, was later revived during In Our Time before dying again"
 
Yeah, this should be straightforward enough as I have discussed this with Shiroiyo back then on discord to give a background here:

Agree: Enryu_The_Red_Tower (With CM1 & AE1), Ar1216789, Eseseso (Except AE1), NARONG_SUVAN (Except CM1)
Neutral: Fixxed
Disagree: Valxxroyz
no, the embodiment of aeon will not get the same quality as aeon.
 
I wholeheartedly disagree with the AE Type 1. You're whole argument is instantly denied by the fact that Harmonious Choir is merely an amalgamation created by intertwining Order and Harmony and not the abstraction itself. Harmonious Choir is also not treated as something conceptual like the Aeons, he's only metaphysical in nature. So yeah this is AE Type 2, not Type 1.

Type 2: Embodies an abstraction, and can be resurrected or regenerate indefinitely thanks to it. Destroying the abstraction is required to permanently kill those characters, but they can still be affected without directly altering it.
 
I wholeheartedly disagree with the AE Type 1. You're whole argument is instantly denied by the fact that Harmonious Choir is merely an amalgamation created by intertwining Order and Harmony and not the abstraction itself. Harmonious Choir is also not treated as something conceptual like the Aeons, he's only metaphysical in nature. So yeah this is AE Type 2, not Type 1.
Which one of your premise is right? The one I bolded literally contradicts each other, you do know for a fact that Order and Harmony are already accepted as something that's conceptual in nature, right? Harmonious Choir is one of the many embodiments of Xipe, saying it wouldn't be treated as something conceptual like the Aeons despite the fact Shadow of IX (basically thousands of manifestations of IX, and yes they're not IX themselves if you read the wiki but rather THEIR shadow, the same one that's in Acheron's domain) here is basically accepted as NEP2 like IX themselves just doesn't make sense at all.

You would get what I mean if you read the Immortality Type 9 justification on Aeon Physiology, it states that Aeons can have thousands of manifestations (derives from IX's feat), so saying Harmonious Choir wouldn't have the same nature as the Aeons are just wrong in so many ways. To top it off, the same Harmonious Choir here could "resurrect" Ena though the plan failed and you know what happened after (Read what I said to Enryu)

Other than that, I see your point though. I can't say much if you can be AE2 while being metaphysical in nature just like what Eseseso says.
 
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Pathstrider doesn't even get imaginary energy manipulation tbh, it was exclusive to doomsday beast + cocolia (due to stellaron) only
They all should have some kind of energy manipulation tbh.

Or we just grant all of them concept manipulation but that maybe too far
 
They all should have some kind of energy manipulation tbh.

Or we just grant all of them concept manipulation but that maybe too far
Honestly gatekeeping it was good enough because if you get imaginary energy manipulation by default you would get limited conceptual manipulation (imagine if the staff didn't say it was limited before)

But yeah, let's wank and just give them all concept manipulation!!
 
Bump.
(I decided to make this a different thread instead of adding it on the later CRTs that I'm gonna make because it's a controversial ability even though it's straightforward based on my personal views).
 
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