Sub-Relativistic Naruto?

[FinalBattleX01]

My main issue with the calc. is the assumption of how many steps Naruto has taken (and the average length of the steps but that's not that big a deal thb) since there is a scene after Naruto has started sprinting where the camera focuses only on Toneri charging/firing his attack where Naruto could have moved any number of steps. Also forgive me if it's a stupid question but where does the 100m distance between the two of them come from? Atm it seems quite arbitrary.

Also, while I see what you mean about the reaction speed, my reservation is that any action Naruto took was after the beam had already been fired, meaning that the distance between Naruto and the beam when he decided to "charge up" was far smaller than the distance between Naruto and Toneri.

 

[Teufel_Dunkelheit]

The number of steps naruto took is not an assumption. I counted the number (even ones that couldn't be properly seen). Also the number of steps is only for before Naruto's Rasengan collided with Toneri's Sword. There is an unspecified amount of steps naruto could've made the camera focuses only on Toneri charging/firing his attack yes but it's only 2-3 steps at best if we scale from Toneri's attack speed.

The 100m is the most logical distance between Toneri and Naruto as such I took it as the distance between the two. Even though the distance seem to be more than that.

 

[Quincy_King]

Yes we should end with naruto not being sub relativistic

 

[Antvasima]

All of this seems a bit arbitrary to conclusively determine the speed. I will ask what the other staff members think?

 

[Teufel_Dunkelheit]

Ok but just know this unless Toneri was 1 meter away from Naruto. Naruto wouldn't get Sub-Relativistic speed. Just wanted to boost Naruto's base speed is all I was doing.

 

[Antvasima]

Understood.

 

[Quincy_King]

I already ask unclecharman,Sheoth, and rocks Unclecharman said he doesn't know that much in naruto to have an opinion, Sheoth already gave his opinion, and rocks already displayed an disinterest in this subject...

 

[Antvasima]

Hmm.

 

[Quincy_King]

So were do we go from here?

 

[FinalBattleX01]

I too feel we are making too many assumptions here. How about we stick to the subject of the sword's speed for right now and update Toneri's profile accordingly? Let's wait to see what other people think about Naruto's speed.

 

[Teufel_Dunkelheit]

Off Topic: Well I'm debating Naruto's speed now, after that I'll probably start the downgrade for OP Characters.....

Hmmm I wonder if I should bring up the thing to downgrade Bleach stats as well.

 

[Quincy_King]

What thing?

 

[Teufel_Dunkelheit]

@ FinalBattleX01: We don't know if the sword truly moves at 3475 km/s so no. If it was 3475 km/s though Kaguya's attack speed and reactions can probably be scaled from this.

 

[A6colute]

My opinion about all those HST (and other) movies - it needs only for overestimation characters stats.

 

[Teufel_Dunkelheit]

What thing?

If I told you what it was here then Bleach speeds would almost certainly be downgraded so it's better if you didn't know...

 

[Quincy_King]

Ok

 

[Non-Bias]

I think that the sword was mach 10,000+ and that stats should be made upgraded. But that's my opinion.

 

[FinalBattleX01]

Personally I too think that the sword is 10000+ and therefore Toneri should get an upgrade, though how would Kaguya be scaled from that?

@ Teufel Dunkelheit: Haha, so mysterious with the Bleach thing

 

[Antvasima]

All right, starting with Toneri. Do you all think that we should insert that his sword extends at sub-relativistic speed?

 

[FinalBattleX01]

Yes, the calcs. that indicate such a speed are quite solid, and until we have reasonable proof (which we don't) to think that the sword is significantly slower (or that the planet is smaller) Toneri should get an upgrade.

 

[Quincy_King]

Toneri getting a sub relativistic attack speed? Fine with me

 

[Teufel_Dunkelheit]

You wouldn't actually need a sword which is 3475 km to cut the moon if it's made of energy.

Also no ones's answer this so I'll ask again. What are your opinions about ajusting base Naruto's speed in the movie to be mach 829.

 

[Quincy_King]

That's fine

 

[Non-Bias]

All right, starting with Toneri. Do you all think that we should insert that his sword extends at sub-relativistic speed?

I don't see why it would be a problem.


Personally I too think that the sword is 10000+ and therefore Toneri should get an upgrade, though how would Kaguya be scaled from that?

^Kaguya had the most chakra of any character in the series. In Naruto, more chakra gives a character better stats as we've seen in the series. Therefore, I think Kaguya could be scaled to it, but that's my opinion.

 

[Antvasima]

I have adjusted Toneri. So, should we adjust base Naruto to Mach 829/Massively Hypersonic?

 

[Teufel_Dunkelheit]

Yes, the calcs. that indicate such a speed are quite solid, and until we have reasonable proof (which we don't) to think that the sword is significantly slower (or that the planet is smaller) Toneri should get an upgrade.

There isn't a single scan or calc which proves that the Sword is mach 10,000+ though.

Personally I too think that the sword is 10000+ and therefore Toneri should get an upgrade, though how would Kaguya be scaled from that?
@ Teufel Dunkelheit: Haha, so mysterious with the Bleach thing

Kaguya is the absolute strongest person in naruto up until now and should be leagues above Juubi Madara, Toneri, Movie Naruto and Movie Sasuke. The only way she got beat was through massive PIS and CIS so she could probably be scaled from Toneri's attack speed.

About the Bleach thing. I'm still thinking about it.

I don't see why it would be a problem.


Personally I too think that the sword is 10000+ and therefore Toneri should get an upgrade, though how would Kaguya be scaled from that?

^Kaguya had the most chakra of any character in the series. In Naruto, more chakra gives a character better stats as we've seen in the series. Therefore, I think Kaguya could be scaled to it, but that's my opinion.

Ummm that in Bleach. In Naruto having more chakra doesn't automatically mean you're stronger. I thought I'd point that out.

 

[Non-Bias]

I have adjusted Toneri. So, should we adjust base Naruto to Mach 829/Massively Hypersonic?

Well I don't see a problem with it. Is he going to get Sub-Relativistic reaction speed too?

 

[Teufel_Dunkelheit]

I have adjusted Toneri. So, should we adjust base Naruto to Mach 829/Massively Hypersonic?

Oh I almost forgot. Base Naruto's speed being mach 829 is only in the Movie. This doesn't apply to Base Naruto before the movie. We can disregard this. That is unless you want to mention it like this Massively Hypersonic+ (Is mach 829 in base).

@ Non-Bias: No.

 

[FinalBattleX01]

Yes, the calcs. that indicate such a speed are quite solid, and until we have reasonable proof (which we don't) to think that the sword is significantly slower (or that the planet is smaller) Toneri should get an upgrade.

There isn't a single scan or calc which proves that the Sword is mach 10,000+ though.

Unless you can prove that the Narutoverse moon is smaller than ours then LazyWaka's calc. is more than reasonable.

While I agree with you about the whole "absolute strongest" for Kaguya, chakra levels don't necessarily mean faster attack speeds (like you said, this isn't Bleach). Remember Mabui? The chick with the light speed transportation technique? I doubt she was stronger than Kaguya. Anyway, like I said, I don't particularly care, if you think that Kaguya can be scaled from this then I have no problem with it

 

[Non-Bias]

Yes, the calcs. that indicate such a speed are quite solid, and until we have reasonable proof (which we don't) to think that the sword is significantly slower (or that the planet is smaller) Toneri should get an upgrade.

There isn't a single scan or calc which proves that the Sword is mach 10,000+ though.

Personally I too think that the sword is 10000+ and therefore Toneri should get an upgrade, though how would Kaguya be scaled from that?
@ Teufel Dunkelheit: Haha, so mysterious with the Bleach thing

Kaguya is the absolute strongest person in naruto up until now and should be leagues above Juubi Madara, Toneri, Movie Naruto and Movie Sasuke. The only way she got beat was through massive PIS and CIS so she could probably be scaled from Toneri's attack speed.


I don't see why it would be a problem.

Personally I too think that the sword is 10000+ and therefore Toneri should get an upgrade, though how would Kaguya be scaled from that?

^Kaguya had the most chakra of any character in the series. In Naruto, more chakra gives a character better stats as we've seen in the series. Therefore, I think Kaguya could be scaled to it, but that's my opinion.

Ummm that in Bleach. In Naruto having more chakra doesn't automatically mean you're stronger. I thought I'd point that out.
But it does. Gates, Sage Mode, Bijuu Chakra, and the Curse Mark, gives characters a significant boost in stats. Kaguya's base power is>>>Juubi Jinchuriki/Tenseigan/Six Paths Sage Mode and can be scaled to them pretty easily.

And finally it doesn't count as reactions as his hand was already held out.

^No it wasn't. Naruto's hand was by his side and then next scene we see it above his head.

 

[Teufel_Dunkelheit]

The length of the sword is never properly shown to be the same as the length as the diameter of the moon and LazyWaka only assumed it was the same length because Toneri used the sword to cut the moon. You don't necessarily need a 3475km long sword (if it's made of energy) to cut the moon in half.

Mabui's technique can't be used for offensive purposes. Kaguya was blitzing both Naruto and Sasuke at the same time. Naruto's speed is still regarded as Mach 4000+ even in the movie and if he was fast enough to remotely react to Toneri's sword then Kaguya should easily be able to do so as well. But since Naruto didn't really react to it I guess it doesn't really matter.

 

[Teufel_Dunkelheit]

But it does. Gates, Sage Mode, Bijuu Chakra, and the Curse Mark, gives characters a significant boost in stats. Kaguya's base power is>>>Juubi Jinchuriki/Tenseigan/Six Paths Sage Mode and can be scaled to them pretty easily.

We don't know exacty how much it increases their speed as that's never been stated but since Naruto didn't react to Toneri's sword I guess it doesn't really matter.

 

[Non-Bias]

But it does. Gates, Sage Mode, Bijuu Chakra, and the Curse Mark, gives characters a significant boost in stats. Kaguya's base power is>>>Juubi Jinchuriki/Tenseigan/Six Paths Sage Mode and can be scaled to them pretty easily.

We don't know exacty how much it increases their speed as that's never been stated but since Naruto didn't react to Toneri's sword I guess it doesn't really matter.

And finally it doesn't count as reactions as his hand was already held out.

^No it wasn't. Naruto's hand was by his side and then next scene we see it above his head which shows that he blocked at the last second.

 

[FinalBattleX01]

@ Teufel Dunkelheit: You will have to develop your argument, why can an energy sword be smaller and still cut the moon?

That doesn't mean anything, just because it can't be used offensively doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Also, the only reason why we consider his speed to still be Mach 4000+ in the movie is because we are unable to accurately calc. his current speed (which, if your Mach 829 in base calc. is accurate, should be much higher than when he fought Kaguya).

 

[Teufel_Dunkelheit]

But it does. Gates, Sage Mode, Bijuu Chakra, and the Curse Mark, gives characters a significant boost in stats. Kaguya's base power is>>>Juubi Jinchuriki/Tenseigan/Six Paths Sage Mode and can be scaled to them pretty easily.

We don't know exacty how much it increases their speed as that's never been stated but since Naruto didn't react to Toneri's sword I guess it doesn't really matter.

And finally it doesn't count as reactions as his hand was already held out.

^No it wasn't. Naruto's hand was by his side and then next scene we see it above his head which shows that he blocked at the last second.

Hmmm do you know how many Micro seconds it would take for Naruto to actualy move his hand. It would result in a very very very small amount of time making it so that it wouldn't really matter. Once again Naruto can have Sub-Relativistic reactions if and only if Toneri fired his Sword 1 meter away from naruto.

The distance between Toneri and Naruto was likely 100 m. You don't need to have mach 10,000+ reactions to see an attack coming from 100 meters away similar to how an attack that requires a character to move 1 meter to dodge, which is fired from 100 meters away, then the character would only need 1/100 of the speed of the projectile to successfully dodge the attack you'd only need 1/100 of the speed of the attack to see it.

@ Teufel Dunkelheit:
You will have to develop your argument, why can an energy sword be smaller and still cut the moon?

That doesn't mean anything, just because it can't be used offensively doesn't mean it doesn't exist. Also, the only reason why we consider his speed to still be Mach 4000+ in the movie is because we are unable to accurately calc. his current speed (which, if your Mach 829 in base calc. is accurate, should be much higher than when he fought Kaguya).

I'd rather not. That theory I guess you could call it that is rarely ever used and is too complex I guess so I'd rather not.

Hmmmm I posted two calcs one which resulted in Naruto's speed to being mach 829 and another which resulted to the extension speed of the sword being mach 308.

 

[FinalBattleX01]

I'd rather not. That theory I guess you could call it that is rarely ever used and is too complex I guess so I'd rather not.

Hmmmm I posted two calcs one which resulted in Naruto's speed to being mach 829 and another which resulted to the extension speed of the sword being mach 308.

Well, in that case I'll just stick to the Mach 10000+ sword.

The calc. you posted about he sword being Mach 308 assumed that Naruto's speed was Mach 25, which I find to be a very illogical assumption (no offence).

 

[Teufel_Dunkelheit]

None Taken and Naruto's Base speed before the movie is low Hypersonic (mach 5 or 6) at best so I gave naruto a 5 times increase in speed (Mach 25).

 

[FinalBattleX01]

And that 5 times increase is completely arbitrary and therefore does not provide a sufficient basis for an argument imho.

 

[Teufel_Dunkelheit]

Your right I should've used Naruto's normal speed. Seeing as we can't assume an increase in speed since no new speed calcs having been done to prove that Naruto was faster in the Movie (besides my first calc).

So speed of Toneri's sword is mach 61.6.

 

[FinalBattleX01]

Right...