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Sub-Rel Naruto Speed Ratings and Scaling

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@AstralKing7; once again, I don't think you get what I'm trying to say.

Trust me, I'm not arguing for the sake of it but I think people are far too lax about what qualifies as evidence.

I'm neutral on the current topic; I think the speed ratings are too wildly different from what my idea of them is, so really this doesn't change much. Just more for me to look into in the future.
 
Bro what your saying makes sense but it doesn't apply to this situation literally.

Everyone knew Hidan scaled above Shino because of the fact that he scales to a feat higher with Kakashi
 
AstralKing7 said:
Bro what your saying makes sense but it doesn't apply to this situation literally.
Everyone knew Hidan scaled above Shino because of the fact that he scales to a feat higher with Kakashi
Click to expand...
I know - and that's not what I was arguing about.

My point was against the presumption that Hidan is already faster than Shino even before the Sub-Rel scaling came into it. That's all.
 
Damage, argue better and talk your shit more direct then, because all we hear is "Hidan being S-Class and being able to fight Kakashi isn't enough for him to scale to the far inferior Shino, let alone to Kakashi himself, despite him fighting the latter."

What, is higher scaling not enough for you to scale to lower characters? Do you ABSOLUTELY need Hidan to do a feat comparable or superior to Shino's for him to scale to Shino at least, even with everything else?
 
@Amexim; my issue isn't with scaling. My issue is scaling without sufficient evidence. Please understand that, even if you disagree with me. If the evidence is sufficient for you, good, but that's not necessarily good enough for everyone.
 
For Shino, maybe, but not for the verse.

Hidan would be superior to Shino in speed regardless of Sub Rel or not. Kakashi is superior to shino. Hidan fought Kakashi well as ****. And is also a higher being in the verse than Shino is. It's basic.
 
The Causality said:
I will be honnest, Mach 6K Shino is probably an Outlier
Click to expand...
Wow, I'm surprised that someone else besides me actually thinks this.
 
Amexim said:
How is the evidence here not enough to you?
Click to expand...
I think that continuing this too much further will derail the thread.

For Jvando's sake I'll defer this discussion to a later date and avoid clogging up this thread further.
 
Wow if u guys think it's an outlier make a crt for it.

Until then we need to focus on the purposes of this thread tbh
 
Damage, just say it, dog. If we debunk it here, everything will be easier overall. So speak.
 
Sigh I was hoping this would be a relatively simple thread to kind of even out the issues with our scaling (Going fromMHS+ to Rel with no Sub-Rel) so if there are any issues that conflict with my propositions, please do state them. I'd rather not have another giant speed CRT come thru because we missed something.
 
when are we gonna get this over with? its quite simple. we vote yes or no for the sub rel thing, then we take a look at whole legitmatly scales. lets speed shit up people
 
its killing three birds with one stone is what its called (get the speed upgrade done with, the fans satisfied, and scaling done right), and we're doing it here now if possible
 
Question; the OP specifies that this is a matter of scaling to Kisame's reactions and then dividing by 5 (the 8 Gates multiplier) to get base Guy's speed.

So is this just determining the reaction speed of all these characters?

I presume we're not saying that Kisame's Combat Speed is 0.12 c.
 
yes its reaction speed not Combat Speed

edit: it also Combat Speed cuz gate guy's attack/ Combat Speed>>> Kisame's reaction speed
 
Since the discussion is seemingly somewhat back in action i guess il do this.

ShrekAlmighty said:
Hmm personally, i dont see why any of em should scale to base guy, none of them have feats for that to happen and they have feats which would make it illogical.
Kakuzu and Hidan fought Yugito when she transformed into the 2 tails, considering they won they should at least somewhat scale to her.

Deidara was able to "dance" with Oonoki while both were aerial iirc.

Sasori either scales to Hidan cause Hidan is supposedly the slowest or he scales to Chiyo and Sakura which definetely dont scale to Base Guy, either way same outcome.

Gaara fought on par with Deidara.

Kakashi fought Hidan and Kakuzu and should be comparable to Yamato who was able to restrain and mostly keep up with V2 Nard. (I could also mention him fighting Pein but whatever.)

Guy scaling to base guy is just too senseless imo, no need to further elaborate.

Base Nard would scale to like... I got no idea really, but if he scaled people like Sai would also most definetely scale.

List also has some missing names assuming that the scaling is valid, example Asuma as he was able to keep up with Hidan and whatnot.

Edit: At the end of the day, why should anyone scale to him anyways?
Click to expand...
 
At the end of the day, why should anyone scale to him anyways?


why not ??

kakshi scale to base guy no?

and many nija's scale to kakshi too

+ (start of shippuden)) base naruto and sakura fought kakashi with sharingan

so most of the high tier jonin,S rank ninja. kage and all akatsuki member scale to sub-rel base guy
 
wait wait wait. we're deviding 6th/7th gated guy by 5 to get his base speed? dude, thats not how it works. i thought were doing sometihng completly different. the 5 times multipliers applies only to the first 3 gates at max, i think. not all the way to the 7th and shit. we would have to devide his speed by something a good bit higher than 5
 
That's why this is a lowballed estimate based on what we know. We know 7th Gate Guy is >>> Kisame and 6th Gate Guy is >>> 30% Kisame but we don't know the multipliers. Using 5x is a lowball on both ends:

1) Scaling him above Rel

2) Backscaling him from Rel
 
@Omimi

Why not isnt really a good reason

None of em, bar Kakashi have any reason to scale and Kakshi barely has any, id assume the reason would be them being "rivals" and constantly competing but considering their competitions range from rock paper scissors to over eating i would count that as very valid.

Especially as Kakshi would scale to Yamato whom is comparable to V2 Nard in speed

And no Naruto and Sakura should not scale to Kakashi, they did "fight" him but can we truly consider that a fight? In my eyes not really.
 
Jvando said:
That's why this is a lowballed estimate based on what we know. We know 7th Gate Guy is >>> Kisame and 6th Gate Guy is >>> 30% Kisame but we don't know the multipliers. Using 5x is a lowball on both ends:
1) Scaling him above Rel

2) Backscaling him from Rel
Click to expand...
its not lowballed, its high balled. as shit. it means he is much faster than he should be. the 5x mutlipliers, actually, may only apply to the 1st gate. period. the rest amp the user even more. we are dealing with the 6 gate, which could honestly be a 30x multiplier on the user's base.

its a lowball if we are starting from his base speed, which we are not. since we are starting with his 6th/7th gate, deviding his speed by 5 is a really high end, and not a low one
 
  • We have no idea how that fight between Hidan and Kakuzu went to begin with which is why we don't scale their AP to her. I don't think that is a valid argument against scaling their speed. That entire situation is hidden under a cloud that we will probably never be able to see through since it was never made clear how they won.
  • I don't remember when Deidara fought with Onoki but if you can stand of that, that's fine I suppose, he doesn't have to scale to Sub-Rel anyway.
  • I did mention how Sasori was suicidal so he wouldn't necessarily have to scale to Chiyo or Sakura. Additionally, Hidan was speaking of his attack speed so not sure how that would factor.
  • Beginning of series Gaara has a different rating that Fourth shinobi War Gaara. This would scale to his Beginning of Shippuden key if anything.
  • Hidan and Kakuzu would just be Sub-Rel as explained in my first response. Don't remember much about the Yamato vs V2 thing though.
  • Base Naruto doesn't have to scale in his beginning Shippuden key at least (which was what I was talking about). His Base already scales to Rel during the Pain arc anyway.
  • You're right, Asuma would also scale.
  • Why shouldn't they scale?
 
Lorenzo.r.2nd said:
its not lowballed, its high balled. as shit. it means he is much faster than he should be. the 5x mutlipliers, actually, may only apply to the 1st gate. period. the rest amp the user even more. we are dealing with the 6 gate, which could honestly be a 30x multiplier on the user's base.

its a lowball if we are starting from his base speed, which we are not. since we are starting with his 6th/7th gate, deviding his speed by 5 is a really high end, and not a low one
Click to expand...
My point was that Guy is a lot higher in speed than Kisame, to an unquantifiable amount because we just don't know. He could scale to 0.26c Madara for all We know and we also don't know the multipliers for all the Gates. Anyway, if you think this is flawed, then it doesn't have to be applied. I was just thinking of ways to get better speed scalings.
 
@Jvando

Alright.

When they were above the turtle island but alright again.

He was suicidal, i guess? But he most definetely didnt go easy on them as such if he scaled Chiyo and Sakura should most definetely scale, and ye idk either about Hidan but imo either he shouldnt scale or Sakura and Chiyo should.

Yes but beginning of shippuden is the one that fought Deidara.

Yamato restrained V2 Naruto after he got pushed away by Orochimaru.

Okay.

Well, yea, probs.

Hmmm im not supposed to prove why they shouldnt u are supposed to prove why they should.
 
@jvando it could easily apply, but not how we are using it here. the 5x amp works by multiplying the base by 5, and thats it. once we get that speed, we really cant know the other speeds like u said, aside from 4th war 7th gate guy, who impressed madara and shit, but in that case we would use a "possibly" if anything.
 
@Shrek

  • Isn't there a two year period within Shippuden? The Deidara that fought with Gaara doesn't necessarily have to scale to the one that fought with Onoki.
  • I don't know about Sasori either but if he doesn't scale to sub-Rel, he will have to just scale so some degree above MHS+ for reactions at least
  • I mean, Yamato restraining naruto had nothing to do with his reactions or him being able to keep up with V2 Naruto's speed. Naruto was standing still when Yamato restrained him. As a matter of fact, as Yamato was about to Restrain 4-tails Naruto, Naruto lashed out an attack at Sakura with his tail and his attack connected before he was restrained. (Chapter 296 pages 6-10)
  • you right, burden of proof is on me. I believe they should scale because if we are speaking at least in terms of base Guy and Kakashi, they were always shown to be relative to each other in skill. From there, we can branch out the scaling to other individuals.
 
@Jvando

Its a one year period iirc but either way Deidara was dead for most of it as Sasuke killed him after which he got Edo'ed and then fought Onoki, as such there isnt any reason to assume he got stronger/faster.

I mean he is above the MHS+ folk, but just not scaling for him for this, imo.

Naruto was moving around tho as Oro didnt keep him pinned down, and yea he did manage to strike Sakura but Yamato was able to keep up with him nonetheless, even if not "perfectly".

Skill =/= speed, and tbh id argue that Guy was "always" a more skilled ninja but thats besides the point.
 
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