Sub-Rel Naruto Speed Ratings and Scaling

[Jvando]

==Sub-Rel Scaling==

During both his fights with Kisame (30% and the real Kisame), Guy employed his Gates in order to get that 5x speed and power amplification.

We know that Kisame scales to at least Relativistic reactions, 0.12c, or 12% SoL.

Using this, we can say that Base Guy would be equal to 0.12c/5 = 0.024c or 2.4% the speed of light because of the at least 5x speed multiplier that was employed using the Gates.

Now, Guy destroyed 30% and Real Kisame using the 6th and 7th gates respectively so it's clear that the strength and speed boosts granted by the later gates (Gates 3 and up. Gate 2 seems to only replenish your stamina and give you 'second wind' so to speak) are much greater than just the 5x we are using from the Gate of Opening so the 5x multiplier we use for both ends is a lowball.

Using this scaling, base Guy would be granted at least Sub-Rel reactions and so would the people who scale to him in base. I have a list below.

==Who Would Scale?== This would apply to the following: *Kakuzu *Hida *Deidara *Sasori? (Prolly not though...) *Gaara (Before War arc. He scales higher later on) *Kakashi (Before the War arc. He scales higher later on) *Guy *Maybe Base Naruto (Beginning of Shippüden)?

Edit: *Base Sasuke would also scale to Sub-Rel and would have Rel+ with sharingan Precog

This works out well because even to Hidan's admission, he is the slowest Akatsuki yet he scales higher than characters like Adult Shino who is Mach 6.8k.




This also fits because characters like Itachi, Kisame, Pain, Tobi, And Konan scale to Rel reactions which is obvious faster than Hidan's now sub-Rel. It doesn't conflict with his own statement, fits well with the scaling, and makes sense.

Some might argue Sasori's scaling because of Sakura being able to dodge his attacks but I think he scales since the dude was legit suicidal and let himself get killed. Everything else should be generally non controversial but who am I kidding?


Talking offline and thinking about it, I agreed without lorenzo that the way I was going about using he multiplier wasn't the right way.

Now then, according to this thread: https://vsbattles.com/vsbattles/3221034?useskin=oasis#52 it was generally accepted that Might Guy's and Lee's 5x Multiplier with the Eight Gates makes sense within the story and can be applied. Using this, I can come up with some new speed ratings for Guy with Gates.

Since we know that 1st Gate Guy has a 5x multiplier for speed and power and a higher multiplier at higher gates, then what should be done is multiplying his Base speed by 5 and giving him that speed with an "at least" rating for his 6th and 7th Gates.

There are two Base speeds we can use:

• We can use the Mach 2225 speed of Kakashi that he did at the beginning of Shippuden when he reacted to Kakuzu's lighting attack

Or

• We can use Jonin Shino's Mach 6800 speed that he did and that we back scale to comparable Jonin of the time (Kakashi, Guy, Asuma, whoever scales less than Rel, etc.)

Some people don't agree with using the Mach 6800 number because they think it's either an outlier, they don't like the back-scaling from Boruto to Shippuden characters or they have a problem with Raiton moving at avg lighting speeds according to our standards.

• For the first problem, I would simply say that since we are scaling the top tiers to Rel at 0.11c, having the lower tiers like Adult Shino be at Mach 6800 shouldn't be a problem or an outlier.
• For the second problem, it is well known that Shino is like the weakest ninja physically and to add to that, he is a teacher like Iruka was so comparing his Jonin self to Elite Jonin of their time like Kakashi and Guy is fair.
• the Raiton thing has been discussed at length and has been agreed that using avg Lightning Speed for Raiton is acceptable (Unless t is shaped like a ball or something.)

Either speed we use, the calcs for Guy with his gates come out to at "least Sub-Rel likely higher" since this 5x boost is based off only the first gate since we don't know the numerical boost the other Gates give.

Some simple math:

• Mach 2225 * 5 = Mach 11125 or 1.26% SoL or 0.0126c. Sub-Rel

• Mach 6800 * 5 = Mach 34000 or 3.86% SoL or 0.0386c. Sub-Rel

These will apply to his forms with Gates. This speed rating would also apply to Shippuden Lee who had been shown to be similar in base speed to base Guy. This multiplier can also be used on other characters as well.

Part 1 lee scales to Mach 33.13 Temari so using his gates:

• Mach 33 * 5 = Mach 165. MHS

Metal lee scales to Mach 781 so with Gates:

• Mach 781 * 5 = Mach 3905. MHS+

 

[Rocker1189]

looks fine.

 

[Omimi]

add base sasuke

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

Hmm personally, i dont see why any of em should scale to base guy, none of them have feats for that to happen and they have feats which would make it illogical.

Kakuzu and Hidan fought Yugito when she transformed into the 2 tails, considering they won they should at least somewhat scale to her.

Deidara was able to "dance" with Oonoki while both were aerial iirc.

Sasori either scales to Hidan cause Hidan is supposedly the slowest or he scales to Chiyo and Sakura which definetely dont scale to Base Guy, either way same outcome.

Gaara fought on par with Deidara.

Kakashi fought Hidan and Kakuzu and should be comparable to Yamato who was able to restrain and mostly keep up with V2 Nard. (I could also mention him fighting Pein but whatever.)

Guy scaling to base guy is just too senseless imo, no need to further elaborate.

Base Nard would scale to like... I got no idea really, but if he scaled people like Sai would also most definetely scale.

List also has some missing names assuming that the scaling is valid, example Asuma as he was able to keep up with Hidan and whatnot.

Edit: At the end of the day, why should anyone scale to him anyways?

 

[Omimi]

pain arc base naruto scale to pain

so nope likes of Sai or sakura etc would never scale to that

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

That is fair, but i was reffering to start of shippuden Base Nard as it is not specificed, and to him Sai and Sakura do scale.

 

[Omimi]

make sense

 

[Jvando]

Sorry I should have specified. I meant beginning of Shippuden Naruto. I'll edit that.

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

i think chyio should scale imo. she moved fast enough to surpirse kakashi, and naruto barely got in her way, and i think he scales a little bit as well, so yeah. now, this is huge pain to deal with, since scaling is very long and boring. one character can scale to 15 others, who scale to other 15, etc etc. i agree i guess. annoying part is figuring out who actually scales and who doesnt

 

[AstralKing7]

Base Naruto doesn't scale. Sakura would have been an outlier anyway if she did scale.

Post FRS training Naruto scales to Kakuzu

I agree with everyone else tho because they scale to Kakashi and Might Guy

 

[M3X_2.0]

Sasuke scale for sure, he blizted base Naruto

 

[Damage3245]

> This works out well because even to Hidan's admission, he is the slowest Akatsuki yet he scales higher than characters like Adult Shino who is Mach 6.8k.

This backwards scaling for Shino's feat has still yet to be proven.

Where in the manga is it shown that Hidan is faster than Shino's feat in the Boruto anime?

INB4 AstralKing7 says "We've already talked about this."

 

[M3X_2.0]

Dman, now Shino is one of the fastest characters. I need to read this fanfic

 

[Damage3245]

Dman, now Shino is one of the fastest characters. I need to read this fanfic

Not sure what kind of strawman this is. Don't pretend like I'm arguing that Shino is the fastest character in the series.

 

[M3X_2.0]

You are arguing Shino is fast than Hidan, an Akatsuki member. Even kids can keep up with Shino. I don't see a problem with this scaling. We talked about this several times before, and you never gave a reason for why we should not scale peoples from Shino

 

[Damage3245]

> You are arguing Shino is fast than Hidan, an Akatsuki member.

Not quite. I'm saying that evidence needs to be provided that Hidan > Shino's Boruto feat.

> We talked about this several times before, and you never gave a reason for why we should not scale peoples from Shino

The burden of proof is on the people asserting that Hidan (and others) scales to Shino's feat.

> Even kids can keep up with Shino.

Well, perhaps that suggests that the results of Shino's feat are not entirely reasonable? It's worth keeping an open mind.

 

[AstralKing7]

Staff agreed this should be case by case. Shino is a fodder who scales to genin and these genin jsut so happen to scale to other Jonin making Shino a low average as well as the genin having their own good feats

Also Hidan scales to Kakashi anyway so scaling him to Shino is unnecessary and pretty much missing the whole point of this thread which scales them to might guy and Kakashi

 

[ShrekAlmighty]

Well, this went from the Eyebrow dude to Bee man real quick..

 

[AstralKing7]

Also damage it's funny how u keep suggesting the calc for Shino is wrong. Calc staff evaluations has accepted it. It's not wrong man.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Not quite. I'm saying that evidence needs to be provided that Hidan > Shino's Boruto feat.

You're just implying something obvious, asking for scans to prove something we all know. You think scaling the Shino in Boruto, to the characters in Part II is wrong, but why? I'd like to know why. To first deny how we will escalate both, you need to provide evidence that Shino does not scale to Part II guys.

The burden of proof is on the people asserting that Hidan (and others) scales to Shino's feat.

You still need to provide scans or arguments showing why we shouldnt scale Shino to them. We want to know why Shino cant scale to Part II character.

I will ignore the last one for my mental sanity

 

[M3X_2.0]

Also damage it's funny how u keep suggesting the calc for Shino is wrong. Calc staff evaluations has accepted it. It's not wrong man.

In every thread he says something dumb about this calculation to try to deny it. I'll keep ignoring, so I do not get stressed

 

[Damage3245]

> You're just implying something obvious, asking for scans to prove something we all know.

Appealing to "common sense" is not a good argument.

> You think scaling the Shino in Boruto, to the characters in Part II is wrong, but why?

Because it lacks evidence.

> To first deny how we will escalate both, you need to provide evidence that Shino does not scale to Part II guys. You still need to provide scans or arguments showing why we shouldnt scale Shino to them. We want to know why Shino cant scale to Part II character.

Nope; you're the ones making the solid claims. You need to provide the evidence.

 

[Amexim]

I mean, at least, if not Guy, then Hidan and everyone scale to the unremarkable Shino.

These dudes are S-class Ninjas, who are able to destroy villages on their own. Even Hidan is stronger than most S-ranked ninja physically by throwing hands with Kakashi. Nah. He's faster than Shino bar none.

 

[Omimi]

so u are still think shino>>>>>>> Hidan

u do know that kakshi also scale sub-rel base guy?

and Hidan= kakshi


this alone prove that Hidan>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>shino

 

[M3X_2.0]

Yeah with this we can continue the scaling. Respond this is waste my time. The dude does not even answered my arguments.

So, as Hidan scale far above Shino, who is Mach 6800, A Sub-Rel rating for him is a good as he can fight toe to toe with Kakashi. Thats even more evidence: Hidan and a lot of others characters scale far above Shino and we do not even use Shino to scale them, we can remove the Shino argument and make powerscaling with Kakashi and Guy. Hidan, Kakashi, Guy and others scale to Sub-Rel and Shino scale to Mach 6800.

The whole "Shino does not scale to Part II characters" is wrong given our scaling.

 

[M3X_2.0]

Dude, Hidan scale to Sub-Rel, Shino to Mach 6800. Hidan is far faster than him

 

[AstralKing7]

It lacks no evidence. Damn near all of the Jonin scale to Shino now which damage didn't even know

 

[Amexim]

King, Shino is a school teacher. And always has been, physically, an unremarkable Shinobi. He should be a baseline for any Shinobi of any era, because of this. There's NOTHING to suggest that Shino is incredible enough to question if anyone else would be capable of what he is physically.

Never mind S-Rank monsters like the Akatsuki. Never mind Jesus-kun himself, the great white blue eyed nine tailed hope, the seventh ninja president of the Leaf, during any age that wasn't him when he was twelve. Come on bro.

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

shino was never known for being fast or physically imposing in any way. this may have changed, but tbh, this has been true for all ages shown. pts he is slow, shippuden he is slow, the last he is slow. it makes sense for him not to scale imo. hidan on the contrary, kept up, and was shown as almost even faster than kakashi, the person might guy has fought the most agaisnt in the show.

 

[Damage3245]

Dude, Hidan scale to Sub-Rel, Shino to Mach 6800. Hidan is far faster than him

That's completely ignoring my point.

I don't have a problem with a character scaling to be faster than Shino.

My problem is just asserting that characters are faster than Shino just because "they scale" without any evidence.

If Hidan had his own Sub-Rel feat then he is demonstrably faster than Shino who is MHS+; that's evidence.

Simply saying "Hidan is faster than Shino, so he scales to Shino's feat" without evidence, is a baseless proposition.

 

[M3X_2.0]

If Hidan had his own Sub-Rel feat then he is demonstrably faster than Shino who is MHS+; that's evidence..

Hidan is faster than Shino.

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

@damage shino is surely faster than boruto but not by much; kakashi in old age without sharingan could blitz the same boruto multiple times with no effort, and much fitter kakashi using his mangekyou was having trouble keeping up with hidan.

 

[Amexim]

Hidan has feats though, and is, by definition, superior to Shino even without them, so you're complaining about nothing damage.

 

[Damage3245]

Hidan has feats though, and is, by definition, superior to Shino even without them, so you're complaining about nothing damage.

Thanks for not reading my post.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pulls here.

 

[Lorenzo.r.2nd]

read what i wrote above

 

[Paul_Frank]

You cant just say "hidan is faster" and expect that to be enough to scale him to a feat that happened over ten years after he died

 

[Omimi]

@Damage3245

so he scales to Shino's feat" without evidence, is a baseless proposition.

are u unable to understand that Hidan is fast as kakshi who scale to sub-rel base guy

sub-rel>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>mhs+

 

[Jvando]

I don't think I understand what you are saying.

I suppose I should have explained how Hidan is relative to Kakashi who at that time is > Adult Shino, but I thought this was a no brainer.

My point was that Hidan already scales above characters like Shino the sub-Rel scaling isn't conflicted in any way. I'm not even sure why you tried to focus on that since it's but a small portion of the main point of my post. It really shouldn't be anything to argue back and forth about.

Do my Sub-Rel scalings make sense? Is the most important question to debate here, not how I phrased a single sentence.

 

[Amexim]

It's not baseless though. A. Hidan has feats. Feats beyond what Shino can do. Objectively. Unless you think he can put Kakashi at a disadvantage with his taijutsu. That's evidence. That's a basis.

B. Him being S-class while Shino is a basic ass jonin at best is evidence on its own that he should be physically superior to Shino, and thus, be at least on Shino's level, likely higher. Shino's feat happening ten years after means ******* nothing if he is still fodder overall.

What are you arguing? And can I smoke some of the shit you have?

 

[AstralKing7]

That's completely ignoring my point.

I don't have a problem with a character scaling to be faster than Shino.

My problem is just asserting that characters are faster than Shino just because "they scale" without any evidence.

If Hidan had his own Sub-Rel feat then he is demonstrably faster than Shino who is MHS+; that's evidence.

Simply saying "Hidan is faster than Shino, so he scales to Shino's feat" without evidence, is a baseless proposition.


Bro so u pretty much saying u didn't read the op. Hidan scales to Kakashi

Are u just arguing for the sake of it Damage??? Like Jvando said it was obvious why Hidan was scaling over Shino. He literally scales to Kakashi ƒñªÔÇìÔÖ鴩ŃñªÔÇìÔÖ鴩ŃñªÔÇìÔÖé´©Å