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Yes, if you are scaling with AP, you are right, but if Haxs is involved, the order I gave is correct. But I don't understand why you only sort by ap. In a possible sorting, the correct sorting is the one I did.
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Strongest Bleach Characters ranked by levels
- Thread starter Louise1959
- Start date
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First of all, there is no problem in Jugram taking all the powers of Yhwach, just like you said, he just cannot use the powers he received as well as Yhwach, maybe he can. As a result, the use of imperfect power is related to the almighty power. There is no reference to his other powers. Therefore, we cannot say for sure whether the sternitters use their powers imperfectly or perfectly. However, just having these powers will definitely put Jugram in the top 3 if we also talk about haxes in the ranking. Let's not argue about this. I didn't know that you were ranking with Ap, but since I thought Jugram's and Yhwach's reiatsu were equal and I took ap=reiatsu=dura, his ap is still higher than Aizen. it will happen (not sure about ichigo)
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there must be a big gap between Yamamoto and any of the squad 0 members in tier 1 of this list. Cause Yama ain't touching them.
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We already know that when Yhwach sleeps, all his powers pass to Jugram. For this reason, the powers of the sternitters that Yhwach absorbed with Auswahlen also logically transfer to Jugram. However, since Jugo and Gerard died at the same time, we do not know if he can take Gerard's power. The saying that Jugram takes all the powers of Yhwach is said after the war. For this reason, there is a possibility that he will also take Gerard's power.
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Yes, any character at level 1 can crush Yamamoto, so he must be lower than that.
Excellence616
He/Him- 6,125
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I sort by both AP, Haxes and if those Haxes can be negated by higher Reiatsu. Like can Ichigo negate Gerard Miracle since Ichigo has massive Reiatsu than Any Soul King parts.
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What is your evidence on negating mid godly immo 8 or any powerful hax with more reiatsu?
CodeCCLL
He/Him- 2,425
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It's obvious that the "all powers" referred to here are Yhwach's abilities, I don't remember anything about Yhwach's reiatsu being transferred to Jugram.
Excellence616
He/Him- 6,125
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No prove rather but i think it can be possible tho with Large Reiatsu gap. Because Gerard or Pernida can't just get stronger or strong as Soul King level when they are Body Parts of the Soul King (In-Verse NLF)
Bastolan27
He/Him- 1,020
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Wait for Uryu and Jugram's fight in the anime since it will clarify how proficient Jugram is with the almighty.
We've never seen Defensive haxes negated by reitasu; if that were the case, Aizen's immortality would have been bypassed by mugetsu since Aizen couldn't even sense ichigo or Yama's bankai, or any EE in the soul society while Aizen was weakened.
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Yes, exactly what I'm talking about is as you said. Yhwach's abilities. Since the abilities of sternitters also belong to Yhwach, all their abilities pass to Jugram whenever Yhwach sleeps.This is because all the powers is transferred to Jugram when he sleeps to ensure Yhwach's safety. As for the reiatsu issue, of course I have plenty of evidence for this, but to explain it briefly. While Uryu and Ichigo are going to fight Jugram, Uryu tells Ichigo that Yhwach is defenseless. The reason why Yhwach is defenseless is that all of Yhwach's powers are in Jugram at that time. If Yhwach had his reiatsu, why would he be referred to as defenseless? In the Bleach universe, reiatsu = AP = Dura. At that time, Yhwach, who had absorbed Reio, had more reiatsu than everyone else, so he could not even be mentioned as defenseless. Also, at night, when Jugram gets all the powers of Yhwach, we can see the Soul King's aura around him, his darkness ability and the almighty signs in his eyes. In the Jugram vs Ishida fight, while Yhwach is awake, Almighty simultaneously turns into Yhwach and it seems that he has the Soul King's reiatsu + Almighty in his eye. We personally know that he can use the Soul King's power when he opens Almighty, from here we can understand that he gets Yhwach's reiatsu.
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Dude, mid godly and immo 8 don't matter in inverse anyway. you are talking about inverse. My ranking is according to vsb rules.
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I agree, but the situations in the manga clarify most things.
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Wasn't it confirmed sorta-recently that the Quincy symbol in Gerard's head is a weakspot
Excellence616
He/Him- 6,125
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Yes, in Q&A
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Yeah so why would he be so high up now if a lot of characters can just break it
Excellence616
He/Him- 6,125
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Bastolan27
He/Him- 1,020
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Kenpachi Couldn't, so its the minority in the verse that can probably only God tiers
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kenpachi could not break it.
toshiro after freezing him completely and making him crumble could not break it either.
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The haxes that Yhwach has with Almighty: power null, information analysis, Fate manipulation, etc., jugram has never used even once? All he does is just see a certain future.First of all, it has been told to us many times in the manga and novel that Jugram uses Almighty like Yhwach, but since he is not as adept as Yhwach in using Almighty, he thinks that he sees the future wrong for once. And the statement that jugram cannot change the future was never used. Canon argument > an argument withou proof
In the novel, it is said that all his powers are passed to him, but for some reason in the manga, he can never use them to their full potential, experience or not, it does not matter, jugram never directly intervened in the future, Yhwach thought the future he saw was a dream and was defeated by zangetsu because of his own Failure
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They just aren't built different like Ichigo
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Just because he "doesn't use it" in the manga doesn't mean he can't use it, it's shown very rarely in the manga anyway, and when it's shown, most of the time it's on Almighty Yhwach. Jugram has no intention of revealing Almighty's true power in advance in the manga and leaving Yhwach at a disadvantage. Since he has already seen what will happen from the beginning (this event also takes place in the novel), he does not take any action to avoid changing the fate, and since he sees Yhwach's death in the future, he hides it from Yhwach at nights thanks to Almighty. Just like he didn't kill Ishida when he had the potential to defeat him, but then left Ishida to give Yhwach the final blow. And I say it again, 1 canon information 0's an information without evidence, Yhwach getting all his powers in the novel is a sufficient feat for us, but you are defending events that never took place in the manga or novel. We were never told that jugram couldn't change the future, if it was, I expect you to prove it.(and he defeated by jugram)
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Do you have a problem with comprehension?
The statement in the novel is that when Yhwach sleeps at night his powers pass to Jugram, yes, but Jugram can never use Almighty like Yhwach, he himself states this. you say prove to me that he didn't change the future
shit bro you are the one who needs to provide proof here stop bumping the statement in the novel SK yhwach's entire power at that moment passes to Jugram I already know this you don't need to repeat what you say and pretend you know something the fact that his powers pass to Jugram does not prove that Jugram can use these powers to their full potential but I will still make one last statement:
Here uryuu says that he took almighty for jugram and that his eyes are the same as yhwach, so yhwach in almighty currently lacks all of almighty's powers, the main argument here is that since he cannot use sight and change, these pass to jugram and jugram in almighty uses full pot.
But the meaning here is this:
At night the almighty changes places with the jugram and yhwach, and therefore the yhwach cannot use any of the almighty's powers because the almighty himself goes to the jugram, so there is no argument that the power to see remains in the jugram and the power to change remains in the yhwach, but the transfer of the almighty to the jugram does not mean that the almighty will use the this to its full potential, it is only a displacement, and here the main person that uryuu mentions as seeing and changing is the yhwach, never such a term for the jugram
After this conversation, uryuu, referring to the jugram's power of sight, says "you're surprised right now, aren't you, it's because you can't see me properly" and "the future can change".
The main argument is that all of these words are used for Jugram and that Jugram feels uneasy about these words.
Jugram also refers to the fact that B is more functional than A for him when his main power "Balance" shifts back to him in his battle with uryuu in the morning.
But full potential almighty can never be a power lower than balance and this is a proof that jugram is not fully utilising A
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- Thread starter
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The Visionary is pretty haxx
Bastolan27
He/Him- 1,020
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Pernida did better against Kenpachi than Gremmy did, if I remember correctly.
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Wow wow dude calm down, I never pretended to know anything, I defended what was rightDo you have a problem with comprehension?
The statement in the novel is that when Yhwach sleeps at night his powers pass to Jugram, yes, but Jugram can never use Almighty like Yhwach, he himself states this. you say prove to me that he didn't change the future
Here uryuu says that he took almighty for jugram and that his eyes are the same as yhwach, so yhwach in almighty currently lacks all of almighty's powers, the main argument here is that since he cannot use sight and change, these pass to jugram and jugram in almighty uses full pot.
But the meaning here is this:
At night the almighty changes places with the jugram and yhwach, and therefore the yhwach cannot use any of the almighty's powers because the almighty himself goes to the jugram, so there is no argument that the power to see remains in the jugram and the power to change remains in the yhwach, but the transfer of the almighty to the jugram does not mean that the almighty will use the this to its full potential, it is only a displacement, and here the main person that uryuu mentions as seeing and changing is the yhwach, never such a term for the jugram
After this conversation, uryuu, referring to the jugram's power of sight, says "you're surprised right now, aren't you, it's because you can't see me properly" and "the future can change".
The main argument is that all of these words are used for Jugram and that Jugram feels uneasy about these words.
Jugram also refers to the fact that B is more functional than A for him when his main power "Balance" shifts back to him in his battle with uryuu in the morning.
But full potential almighty can never be a power lower than balance and this is a proof that jugram is not fully utilising A
. Now, going back to our topic, the first expression mentioned in the novel. Whenever Yhwach sleeps, all of Yhwach's powers pass to Jugram and he uses them to their full potential. It has never been stated that Jugram cannot use almighty like Yhwach. Ishida notices this because the only expression that passes is Jugram's surprise at Ishida's change. Then he says to Jugram, “means you didn't previously see me full of hope.” So the conclusion that can be drawn from here is that JUGRAM used his power of seeing the future flawedly for once. However, even this is not completely certain. As a result, Ishida's schrift is almighty's counter as the basic logic.He can use Yhwach's powers at fully exercise power.
Secondly, you justify the point I defend with what you said. Especially the pupils. It proves that Jugram uses Almighty like Yhwach, I have already explained that he can use full potential above in terms of potential. And the place I wanted from you as evidence was a panel about the statement that Who says jugram can't change the future,There is no mention anywhere that he cannot change the future. However, since there is no such panel, you are still trying to debunk Jugram based on the fact that he cannot use Almighty like Yhwach.
dude, first of all, you should not confuse the concepts of mastery and potential. Jugram has been using balance since he gained his power. Yhwach has lived longer than Jugram and has more control over Almighty. But potential is a completely different thing. I have already given evidence above that both are potentially equal in almighty use. But since Jugram has used B longer than A in terms of mastery, it is natural for him to prefer B in a possible war. Just because A's proficiency is less than B's does not mean that A is weaker than B when in jugram.
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What you say does not even refute what I saidWow wow dude calm down, I never pretended to know anything, I defended what was right
He can use Yhwach's powers at fully exercise power.
Secondly, you justify the point I defend with what you said. Especially the pupils. It proves that Jugram uses Almighty like Yhwach, I have already explained that he can use full potential above in terms of potential. And the place I wanted from you as evidence was a panel about the statement that Who says jugram can't change the future,There is no mention anywhere that he cannot change the future. However, since there is no such panel, you are still trying to debunk Jugram based on the fact that he cannot use Almighty like Yhwach.
dude, first of all, you should not confuse the concepts of mastery and potential. Jugram has been using balance since he gained his power. Yhwach has lived longer than Jugram and has more control over Almighty. But potential is a completely different thing. I have already given evidence above that both are potentially equal in almighty use. But since Jugram has used B longer than A in terms of mastery, it is natural for him to prefer B in a possible war. Just because A's proficiency is less than B's does not mean that A is weaker than B when in jugram.
Dude, are you kidding me right now? The statements in the place I told you are clear and unambiguous Ishida says these words with emphasis on Jugram's opinion. And I don't know how many times I have to say it, but B > A for Jugram, does this evidence really support what you say
no, I don't think so.You want me to prove to you that you can't change fate, mate, you're the one who has to prove it, Jugram didn't do it even once in the manga, so don't waste my time with statements like "all power goes to Jugram" from the novel, if you don't have any concrete proof of success, then there's no need to discuss this further
And yes, if I come to the last part, if he uses it with full potential, he should clearly do A > B, unrelated to this experience, but this is not the case, he says that B may be more functional for him.
Also, if the experience flaw makes B superior to A, then Jugram has no chance against people like Aizen and Ichigo with this inexperience. Even in the battle with Uryuu, someone who says that B is better for him will be gg without being able to use A against Ichigo
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but he lost to mayuri and nemu who were weaker than kenpachi
Bastolan27
He/Him- 1,020
- 1,056
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Dude you almost beat me lelWhat you say does not even refute what I said
Dude, are you kidding me right now? The statements in the place I told you are clear and unambiguous Ishida says these words with emphasis on Jugram's opinion. And I don't know how many times I have to say it, but B > A for Jugram, does this evidence really support what you say
You want me to prove to you that you can't change fate, mate, you're the one who has to prove it, Jugram didn't do it even once in the manga, so don't waste my time with statements like "all power goes to Jugram" from the novel, if you don't have any concrete proof of success, then there's no need to discuss this further
And yes, if I come to the last part, if he uses it with full potential, he should clearly do A > B, unrelated to this experience, but this is not the case, he says that B may be more functional for him.
Also, if the experience flaw makes B superior to A, then Jugram has no chance against people like Aizen and Ichigo with this inexperience. Even in the battle with Uryuu, someone who says that B is better for him will be gg without being able to use A against Ichigo
. I finished the bleach manga a long time ago and there are a lot of things I can't remember. So I had to go and look at the manga again. The truth of the matter is that Jugram does not choose B because he is more inexperienced in Almighty. What Jugram mentions in the panel you posted is that his own power is more suitable than Almighty in his fight with Ishida.Because the power of jugram and the power of ishida are similar
And the power that is more harmonious than war is balance. In addition, antithesis is the natural enemy of almighty. That's why Jugram's use of Almighty against Ishida is complete nonsense. Besides, balance and antithesis are very compatible scrifts. So it makes more sense for Jugram to fight with B in the fight against Ishida. The conclusion drawn here is that Jugram's mastery of balance is not greater than his mastery of Almighty, it is just more suitable for the current battle.
ANTITHESIS
Uryu's "A" Schrift power, Antithesis, allows him to reverse outcomes, making him nearly unbeatable in battle. Uryu was given the "A" Schrift, which in the manga is said to stand for "Antithesis." The Antithesis ability allows its wielder to take what has happened and reverse the outcome. If Uryu were losing and taking a lot of damage, for example, he could use the Antithesis ability to transfer all the damage he had taken to his opponent, while whatever had been dealt to his opponent would be transferred to him. Uryu isn't just limited to using this on himself, or even just on injuries; any two objects that have interacted are eligible for this reversal.
BALANCE
So just like the rest of the elitist Quincies, Jugram's Schrift comes in two parts. The first part allows Jugram to transform fortune into equal misfortune(hence the Balance part). This is kinda of a luck-based power, but not the kind you might be thinking. If the opponent is confident that their action with succeed, Jugram will turn that "fortunate" outcome into a terrible one. Ichigo was confident that he would cut down Yhwach after he attempted to leave, so Jugram turned that into misfortune and broke his Bankai sword in two. Cang was confident that his Iron would prevent Jugram from cutting him down, so Jugram turned that into misfortune, which allows Jugram to easily cut him down with his sword. Uryuu was confident that he could found a way of taking down Jugram, so Jugram turned that into misfortune, causing Uryuu's attacks to miss or get blocked while Jugram's attacks would always hit their mark. You get the picture.
The second power to the Balance is that he can redirect his own misfortune onto others. If he suffers damage from the opponent, he can redirect that damage onto them, and completely heal himself. Should his weapon breaks, he could probably change that and cause his opponent's weapon to break instead. It's basically his way of regeneration like all the other Schutzstaffel have. And what scary, is that he probably doesn't need to have the opponent cause the misfortune. He could probably stub his toe on a rock and make his opponent feel the pain instead. But it gets even scarier. The redirection is actually the second thing that happens. The first thing is that the opponent gets equal amount of misfortune that Jugram received(Think of Shunsui's Bankai). The second part is where he actually redirects the misfortune he himself has, sending extra misfortune to the opponent.
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Dude, for a moment I thought you were presenting a good argument, but all you did was make ridiculous comments and write a long text.Dude you almost beat me lel
First of all, in the evidence you present, Jugram never makes a definite statement, he is impressed by Uryuu's power because he sees it for the first time and makes this inference
Also (I'll go with your logic no matter how much I disagree), a person who can use B more effectively than A in a fight can never be an opponent against Ichigo. We already know that Jugram has never used A to its full potential, and if it's bad enough to put B ahead of A, then we can't even compare Jugram to Ichigo.
Jugram also repeatedly mentions Almighty's special power, and when he says it's "the power to change the future", we can tell from Uryuu's reaction that he never uses this power in combat.
And when he talks about the Almighty all the time, he says that for Yhwach it was very different and that he was just someone who carried this power and never used it like Yhwach
He acknowledges Uryuu's question "the futures you can see changes,doesn't it?" but notes that this never applies to Yhwach.
And the constant emphasis on the "changing the future part" proves that Jugram cannot change the future
Also, Yhwach is constantly talking about his power to change the future throughout all the scenes in which he explains the Almighty, whereas Jugram only emphasises the part of seeing. He never says that he can change it, which I hope is clear from the evidence I have already given.
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You don't even really read what I wrote, do youDude, for a moment I thought you were presenting a good argument, but all you did was make ridiculous comments and write a long text.
First of all, in the evidence you present, Jugram never makes a definite statement, he is impressed by Uryuu's power because he sees it for the first time and makes this inference
Also (I'll go with your logic no matter how much I disagree), a person who can use B more effectively than A in a fight can never be an opponent against Ichigo. We already know that Jugram has never used A to its full potential, and if it's bad enough to put B ahead of A, then we can't even compare Jugram to Ichigo.
Jugram also repeatedly mentions Almighty's special power, and when he says it's "the power to change the future", we can tell from Uryuu's reaction that he never uses this power in combat.
And when he talks about the Almighty all the time, he says that for Yhwach it was very different and that he was just someone who carried this power and never used it like Yhwach
He acknowledges Uryuu's question "the futures you can see changes,doesn't it?" but notes that this never applies to Yhwach.
And the constant emphasis on the "changing the future part" proves that Jugram cannot change the future
Also, Yhwach is constantly talking about his power to change the future throughout all the scenes in which he explains the Almighty, whereas Jugram only emphasises the part of seeing. He never says that he can change it, which I hope is clear from the evidence I have already given.
? Anyway, I'll be happy to explain it until you understand. First of all, I don't care that Jugram doesn't say anything definite. this is a fact for the Kubo (bec he says , goat) Bleach fandom and everyone else, antithesis is the natural enemy of Almighty. Even Yhwach himself says this: "Your power is a power that exceeds even my power." And he is not impressed by Uryu's power, he just understands why Yhwach is so obsessed with Uryu. The reason is that almighty's only counter is antithesis.
You will never really understand what I say. I have explained many times why Jugram said B would be more useful in his fight against Ishida. I explain again. He says this for his fight with Ishida because the antithesis schrift is the counter of Almighty. Besides, balance will be more useful than almighty compared to antithesis. This is not because he CANNOT use almighty properly. I also remember giving you proof that jugram can use almighty full potential.
He's not saying he can never use almight like yhwach. He can use Almight to his full potential, but the conclusion to be drawn from Jugram's words is not that he cannot change the future like Yhwach, but the fact that the future he sees can be changed. Just as he was surprised by Ishida's change. The text ends there and Jugram starts a new word. Then he says that Almighty's real power is not limited to seeing the future. And Ishida is surprised: Are you talking about Almighty's true power? says. This does not mean that jugram cannot change the future. A new power is added just as a reference to the almighty power. Your analysis skills are terrible, you can't understand what you read yet and you come here and defend what you think is right.
We know that Jugram has all the powers of Yhwach and can use those features to their full potential. Except Jugram can't use his power to see the future like Yhwach. However, it makes more sense to me to wait for the anime for this panel. Because Kubo mentions in an interview that due to his illness, there were some deficiencies in the manga about Jugram, Almighty and Yhwach and he could not complete them. However, he also says that these will be clarified in the anime. There are still a lot of shortcomings in the manga.
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Dude, stop throwing the arguments you threw before, this doesn't prove anything, you're just repeating what you said before like a parrot. This doesn't prove anything, do I understand? You're just talking about your own interpretation and you're talking about a sentence in the novel and you're putting a sentence in the novel above the tests in the manga.
I will explain until you understand so that you don't stay so ignorant. I have already explained the meaning of this phrase in the novel, SK yhwach's current powers and Jugram's powers are switched, AND NO, IT IS NOT MENTIONED ANYWHERE THAT HE USES IT WITH FULL POTENTIAL. It is very clear in the examples I gave you that while Jugram always mentions the "seeing" part when using Almighty, he adds the "changing" part for Yhwach and mentions it as Almighty's main power (you can understand this if you look back at those scans I threw above and you never look at them, please try it, it's not very difficult) I don't even care about the examples you made with Uryuu's A, this doesn't even make sense to our main topic
Throw me a scene where Jugram can change the future in a concrete way, just like Yhwach constantly says in the manga that he can change the future and he does it many times, because with these anti feats, people will never accept that Jugram uses Almighty to its full potential, it's just your interpretation and nobody cares about it, if you can't give me a concrete proof, don't waste my time, this is getting boring
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It seems that Jugram changed the future in the manga, even if only once, but I don't have the arguments and I'm bored of talking about it, I like Aizen and Ichigo more, but Jugram is a character that deserves to be ranked higher. Bleach is not a fiction I know very well. But I try to post it when I have time.
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No, he never did in the manga.also look dude, I like Jugram more than Ichigo and Aizen but there's no need to try and glorify him like that, believe me
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ngl
As nodt > Jugram (at least on this wiki)
via passive and layered fear mp
As nodt > Jugram (at least on this wiki)
via passive and layered fear mp
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by profile naruto>jugramngl
As nodt > Jugram (at least on this wiki)
via passive and layered fear mp
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Rc ggby profile naruto>jugram
Apollonir.Scale
He/Him- 1,103
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Zombie Rangiku was able to fight Zombie Luupi. I think we can list Zombie Rangiku as her strongest form.
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Starrk > Ulq
and Nodt prolly annihilates rank 3 (Barragan is debatable just because of his passives)
Royd > Gremmy and others. He literally strongest non-elite.
and Nodt prolly annihilates rank 3 (Barragan is debatable just because of his passives)
Royd > Gremmy and others. He literally strongest non-elite.
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