- 18,378
- 26,221
Introduction
The purpose of this thread is to address the Low 2-C rating on Storm Hagoromo's profile from this thread, and re-evaluate whether or not that rating is justified. This the start of a series of CRTs I will be pumping out evaluating the Storm Naruto profiles, as I do take plenty of issues with many things these profiles implement. Let's get right into it.
The Book of Transcendence
The God Tree
Conclusion
Just to wrap things up, I believe Storm Hagoromo should lose his Low 2-C rating. First, the Book of Transcendence does not meet an qualifiers to make it a Low 2-C construct. Second, the God Tree does not possess a literally mathematical infinite amounts of power. As for where Storm Hagoromo would scale, he would simply scale to 4-A like his previous keys do on his profile for the time being. Let's all remember to be civil as we discuss this.
Agree: Tracer, Damage, Crab
Neutral:
Disagree:
The purpose of this thread is to address the Low 2-C rating on Storm Hagoromo's profile from this thread, and re-evaluate whether or not that rating is justified. This the start of a series of CRTs I will be pumping out evaluating the Storm Naruto profiles, as I do take plenty of issues with many things these profiles implement. Let's get right into it.
The Book of Transcendence
The current argument for the Book of Transcendence being Low 2-C is as follows: Hagoromo at the end game states the following,
History's foundation has been restored. The Book of Foundation is the key to our salvation. Well done. You have carried out an important duty. The Legendary Sannin, Jiraiya. There is a thing which only one who has woven history might understand. One connected to the past, beginning with the dawn of time... One who continues to shape the present. That is to say, ninja history is a tale with that individual at its center. The time has come to complete the tale. Write the title now. A title reflecting your heart's desire, held deep within your soul.
Supporters of Low 2-C BoT (Book of Transcendence) argue that because Hagoromo refers to this book as the foundation of history and makes reference to the dawn of time, that this book must encompass all of time in the universe. In simpler terms, it encompasses or contains the entire spacetime continuum of the Naruto verse. First, let's tackle the dawn of time statement.
When Hagoromo mentions the dawn of time, he is not saying anything along the lines of the BoT containing the dawn of time. If we read the rest of the statement, he's referring to Naruto, and in context "dawn of time" here is in reference to the beginning of ninja history. He starts the statement off by referring to "one", as in someone, and then it is clarified that this someone is Naruto Uzumaki, as the title of said tale ends up being "The Tale of Naruto Uzumaki", as we see Jiraiya write that onto the front of the book. We know Naruto is connected to the start of Shinobi history, since Shinobi history begins with the cycle of hatred, something that originates from Kaguya. And Naruto is the reincarnation of the those there at the start of Shinobi history. Secondly, we know "dawn of time" is merely referring to the start of Shinobi history because Hagoromo clarifies it as such. Hagoromo says "that is to say, ninja history..." with the words "that is to say" be a clarifier phrase to contextualize his prior comment.
Addressing Hagoromo's comment on history's foundation, which is used to claim that since foundation refers to a source or beginning, it must be talking about the beginning of time in totality within the universe. As explained above, since the context of history here is that of Shinobi history. But we can find more support for this interpretation in what Hagoromo states at the start of the game,
A calamity has befallen the river of time. An incident affecting the course of human history. That is to say... the erasure of history. A Ninja World with no history is no Ninja World. A Ninja World with no history is devoid of humanity. The Book Of Transcendence which you composed long ago now lies forgotten and unknown. History must be resurrected. Yet to accomplish this, we require a foundation whereupon its path will be retraced. Therefore, we shall weave this foundation together. We must once again set to paper the verses of this long-forgotten book.
Here we see Hagoromo mention a calamity of time befalling human history. Once again, Hagoromo contextualizes history to not be in reference to an enter spacetime continuum, but rather a specific aspect of history as it relates to people. Furthermore, when Hagoromo is talking about this calamity of time, we are specifically shown through the game visuals, the events of the Naruto story being erased. And moreso, when you go about fixing time, you play through the story of Naruto. All of this again pointing to a context bereft of any notion of some grand time of the universe. So, when Hagoromo mentions a foundation, he's simply referring to a foundation of Shinobi history, which by the end of the game, we discover that foundation is Naruto Uzumaki. None of this points to a foundation in the sense of the Big Bang when the universe was born and time started.
The story mode can be viewed in its entirety here. Although, Hagoromo's statements are at the start and end of the video (don't watch all 6 hours lol). Just to conclude this section of the CRT, I believe from the above explanations of what Hagoromo has said, it is clear that from his statements the BoT is not some Low 2-C construct whatsoever.
History's foundation has been restored. The Book of Foundation is the key to our salvation. Well done. You have carried out an important duty. The Legendary Sannin, Jiraiya. There is a thing which only one who has woven history might understand. One connected to the past, beginning with the dawn of time... One who continues to shape the present. That is to say, ninja history is a tale with that individual at its center. The time has come to complete the tale. Write the title now. A title reflecting your heart's desire, held deep within your soul.
Supporters of Low 2-C BoT (Book of Transcendence) argue that because Hagoromo refers to this book as the foundation of history and makes reference to the dawn of time, that this book must encompass all of time in the universe. In simpler terms, it encompasses or contains the entire spacetime continuum of the Naruto verse. First, let's tackle the dawn of time statement.
When Hagoromo mentions the dawn of time, he is not saying anything along the lines of the BoT containing the dawn of time. If we read the rest of the statement, he's referring to Naruto, and in context "dawn of time" here is in reference to the beginning of ninja history. He starts the statement off by referring to "one", as in someone, and then it is clarified that this someone is Naruto Uzumaki, as the title of said tale ends up being "The Tale of Naruto Uzumaki", as we see Jiraiya write that onto the front of the book. We know Naruto is connected to the start of Shinobi history, since Shinobi history begins with the cycle of hatred, something that originates from Kaguya. And Naruto is the reincarnation of the those there at the start of Shinobi history. Secondly, we know "dawn of time" is merely referring to the start of Shinobi history because Hagoromo clarifies it as such. Hagoromo says "that is to say, ninja history..." with the words "that is to say" be a clarifier phrase to contextualize his prior comment.
Addressing Hagoromo's comment on history's foundation, which is used to claim that since foundation refers to a source or beginning, it must be talking about the beginning of time in totality within the universe. As explained above, since the context of history here is that of Shinobi history. But we can find more support for this interpretation in what Hagoromo states at the start of the game,
A calamity has befallen the river of time. An incident affecting the course of human history. That is to say... the erasure of history. A Ninja World with no history is no Ninja World. A Ninja World with no history is devoid of humanity. The Book Of Transcendence which you composed long ago now lies forgotten and unknown. History must be resurrected. Yet to accomplish this, we require a foundation whereupon its path will be retraced. Therefore, we shall weave this foundation together. We must once again set to paper the verses of this long-forgotten book.
Here we see Hagoromo mention a calamity of time befalling human history. Once again, Hagoromo contextualizes history to not be in reference to an enter spacetime continuum, but rather a specific aspect of history as it relates to people. Furthermore, when Hagoromo is talking about this calamity of time, we are specifically shown through the game visuals, the events of the Naruto story being erased. And moreso, when you go about fixing time, you play through the story of Naruto. All of this again pointing to a context bereft of any notion of some grand time of the universe. So, when Hagoromo mentions a foundation, he's simply referring to a foundation of Shinobi history, which by the end of the game, we discover that foundation is Naruto Uzumaki. None of this points to a foundation in the sense of the Big Bang when the universe was born and time started.
The story mode can be viewed in its entirety here. Although, Hagoromo's statements are at the start and end of the video (don't watch all 6 hours lol). Just to conclude this section of the CRT, I believe from the above explanations of what Hagoromo has said, it is clear that from his statements the BoT is not some Low 2-C construct whatsoever.
The God Tree
From the conclusion of the previous thread's OP, Kaguya states the God Tree contains infinite power, and the OP interpreted that to mean true mathematical infinity (High 3-A). However, definitionally "infinite" does not always mean true mathematical infinity, and more often then not, in fiction it subscribes to the "very great" definition. Without extenuating context to support an interpretation that Kaguya is saying that the God Tree contains High 3-A power, there is no good reason to take that statement as meaning anything other than the God Tree contains very great/massive amounts of power. To cite Carl Sagan, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and there is zero extraordinary evidence to to back such an extraordinary claim.
Conclusion
Just to wrap things up, I believe Storm Hagoromo should lose his Low 2-C rating. First, the Book of Transcendence does not meet an qualifiers to make it a Low 2-C construct. Second, the God Tree does not possess a literally mathematical infinite amounts of power. As for where Storm Hagoromo would scale, he would simply scale to 4-A like his previous keys do on his profile for the time being. Let's all remember to be civil as we discuss this.
Agree: Tracer, Damage, Crab
Neutral:
Disagree:
Last edited:
