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Storm Hagoromo Downgrade

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Introduction
The purpose of this thread is to address the Low 2-C rating on Storm Hagoromo's profile from this thread, and re-evaluate whether or not that rating is justified. This the start of a series of CRTs I will be pumping out evaluating the Storm Naruto profiles, as I do take plenty of issues with many things these profiles implement. Let's get right into it.

The Book of Transcendence

The current argument for the Book of Transcendence being Low 2-C is as follows: Hagoromo at the end game states the following,

History's foundation has been restored. The Book of Foundation is the key to our salvation. Well done. You have carried out an important duty. The Legendary Sannin, Jiraiya. There is a thing which only one who has woven history might understand. One connected to the past, beginning with the dawn of time... One who continues to shape the present. That is to say, ninja history is a tale with that individual at its center. The time has come to complete the tale. Write the title now. A title reflecting your heart's desire, held deep within your soul.

Supporters of Low 2-C BoT (Book of Transcendence) argue that because Hagoromo refers to this book as the foundation of history and makes reference to the dawn of time, that this book must encompass all of time in the universe. In simpler terms, it encompasses or contains the entire spacetime continuum of the Naruto verse. First, let's tackle the dawn of time statement.

When Hagoromo mentions the dawn of time, he is not saying anything along the lines of the BoT containing the dawn of time. If we read the rest of the statement, he's referring to Naruto, and in context "dawn of time" here is in reference to the beginning of ninja history. He starts the statement off by referring to "one", as in someone, and then it is clarified that this someone is Naruto Uzumaki, as the title of said tale ends up being "The Tale of Naruto Uzumaki", as we see Jiraiya write that onto the front of the book. We know Naruto is connected to the start of Shinobi history, since Shinobi history begins with the cycle of hatred, something that originates from Kaguya. And Naruto is the reincarnation of the those there at the start of Shinobi history. Secondly, we know "dawn of time" is merely referring to the start of Shinobi history because Hagoromo clarifies it as such. Hagoromo says "that is to say, ninja history..." with the words "that is to say" be a clarifier phrase to contextualize his prior comment.

Addressing Hagoromo's comment on history's foundation, which is used to claim that since foundation refers to a source or beginning, it must be talking about the beginning of time in totality within the universe. As explained above, since the context of history here is that of Shinobi history. But we can find more support for this interpretation in what Hagoromo states at the start of the game,

A calamity has befallen the river of time. An incident affecting the course of human history. That is to say... the erasure of history. A Ninja World with no history is no Ninja World. A Ninja World with no history is devoid of humanity. The Book Of Transcendence which you composed long ago now lies forgotten and unknown. History must be resurrected. Yet to accomplish this, we require a foundation whereupon its path will be retraced. Therefore, we shall weave this foundation together. We must once again set to paper the verses of this long-forgotten book.

Here we see Hagoromo mention a calamity of time befalling human history. Once again, Hagoromo contextualizes history to not be in reference to an enter spacetime continuum, but rather a specific aspect of history as it relates to people. Furthermore, when Hagoromo is talking about this calamity of time, we are specifically shown through the game visuals, the events of the Naruto story being erased. And moreso, when you go about fixing time, you play through the story of Naruto. All of this again pointing to a context bereft of any notion of some grand time of the universe. So, when Hagoromo mentions a foundation, he's simply referring to a foundation of Shinobi history, which by the end of the game, we discover that foundation is Naruto Uzumaki. None of this points to a foundation in the sense of the Big Bang when the universe was born and time started.

The story mode can be viewed in its entirety here. Although, Hagoromo's statements are at the start and end of the video (don't watch all 6 hours lol). Just to conclude this section of the CRT, I believe from the above explanations of what Hagoromo has said, it is clear that from his statements the BoT is not some Low 2-C construct whatsoever.

The God Tree
From the conclusion of the previous thread's OP, Kaguya states the God Tree contains infinite power, and the OP interpreted that to mean true mathematical infinity (High 3-A). However, definitionally "infinite" does not always mean true mathematical infinity, and more often then not, in fiction it subscribes to the "very great" definition. Without extenuating context to support an interpretation that Kaguya is saying that the God Tree contains High 3-A power, there is no good reason to take that statement as meaning anything other than the God Tree contains very great/massive amounts of power. To cite Carl Sagan, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and there is zero extraordinary evidence to to back such an extraordinary claim.

Conclusion
Just to wrap things up, I believe Storm Hagoromo should lose his Low 2-C rating. First, the Book of Transcendence does not meet an qualifiers to make it a Low 2-C construct. Second, the God Tree does not possess a literally mathematical infinite amounts of power. As for where Storm Hagoromo would scale, he would simply scale to 4-A like his previous keys do on his profile for the time being. Let's all remember to be civil as we discuss this.

Agree: Tracer, Damage, Crab
Neutral:
Disagree:
 
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Conclusion
Just to wrap things up, I believe Storm Hagoromo should lose his Low 2-C rating. First, the Book of Transcendence does not meet an qualifiers to make it a Low 2-C construct. Second, the God Tree does not possess a literally mathematical infinite amounts of power. As for where Storm Hagoromo would scale, he would simply scale to 4-A like his previous keys do on his profile for the time being. Let's all remember to be civil as we discuss this.
Even if only shinobi history got restored it's High-3A, no?
 
A low 2C structure require an infinite time axis.... If it ain't infinite it is irrelevant for the scaling. (Also it is just time manipulation)
 
No one said it's low 2C idk who you are talking with
I am talking in to many chats at ones sorry, but I was thinking about the timeline of being "just history" for Shinobi, as evidence for low 2C as replying to your message.... That made the 2 comments accidently merge into one.... My bad.
 
That’s textbook time manipulation.
That's not. I don't see your reasoning how time manipulation could recreate shinobi history which itself isn't a part of time anymore.

After shinobi history got fully erased, there's only time from dawn of time to the time before shinobi history. How are you planning to do just with time manipulation? Taking time back won't restore shinobi history.
 
That's not. I don't see your reasoning how time manipulation could recreate shinobi history which itself isn't a part of time anymore.

After shinobi history got fully erased, there's only time from dawn of time to the time before shinobi history. How are you planning to do just with time manipulation? Taking time back won't restore shinobi history.
You can ask knowledgeable members what kind of hax it would be. But creating something incorporates manipulating something. Whatever hax it is labeled as isn’t really a matter I need to care about. Also, Shinobi history never fully got erased, only parts of it did. As evident by Boruto being able to travel through time to different points in Shinobi history.
 
You can ask knowledgeable members what kind of hax it would be. But creating something incorporates manipulating something. Whatever hax it is labeled as isn’t really a matter I need to care about. Also, Shinobi history never fully got erased, only parts of it did. As evident by Boruto being able to travel through time to different points in Shinobi history.
The Boruto section is after History Mode, we know this cuz we see Toneri have the book with the title that Jiraiya gave it. All of shinobi history was erased, it was just all restored before the Boruto story.
 
But creating something incorporates manipulating something.
This isn't a thing to say it doesn't grand AP, whatever hax is this Hago just simply recreates a part of timeline. Destruction of timeline isn't something happening within flow of time so you can't restore it just by rewinding time or with something different irrelevant to AP.
 
Would this come under Temporal Restoration hax by any chance? Or since it involves text, maybe Text Manipulation?
Probably both tbh.

This isn't a thing to say it doesn't grand AP, whatever hax is this Hago just simply recreates a part of timeline. Destruction of timeline isn't something happening within flow of time so you can't restore it just by rewinding time or with something different irrelevant to AP.
It’s only erasing Shinobi history, it’s not erasing any part of a timeline. So there is no quantifiable AP aspect.
 
It’s only erasing Shinobi history, it’s not erasing any part of a timeline. So there is no quantifiable AP aspect.
I agree with Low 2-C downgrade but... this comment is absurd.

Shinobi history is that covers a certain amount of time in the timeline, affecting it technically means that it affects a certain amount of the timeline.

For a history to be truly “history”, it must cover a certain amount of the timeline in which it takes place.

For example 1000 years, 100000 years... etc...
And as for H3-A, yes, the burden is on you to prove that this statement is not truly infinite. If you cannot prove it, it is really infinite energy.

Also, the argument that “the term infinite was used to describe a supreme being and power” is incoherent because none of the beings referred to as “God” in the Naruto and Boruto series, which covers Shinobi history, ever used the phrase “infinite energy” or “being with infinite power”, so if that's the only infinite phrase used, then it is indeed infinite
 
the burden is on you to prove that this statement is not truly infinite
no it isn’t, the burden is on those making the positive claim. Which was the supporters when they made such a claim. But I already provided rationale anyway, so I’m not sure why you’re attempting to imply I didn’t fulfill a burden.

Not really sure what the other parts of your post are implying, but seeing as you agree with the Low 2-C downgrade anyway, I don’t care to address them atm.
 
I also agree with Low 2-C downgrade. Just saying it should be High 3-A anyway as he restores a finite part of timeline.

Not sure what you mean by saying that shinobi history isn't a part of timeline though.
 
There is not such thing as a "finite part of the timeline" 1 second of a timeline is an infinite number of moments. Unless you have any proof that time in Naruto can be quantized, the proof of the existance of a timeline regardless of size it's a low 2-C structure.
 
he restores a finite part of timeline.
He doesn't. Shinobi history is not an aspect of a timeline. Erasing Shinobi history had no affects on say the andromeda galaxy or anything of the sort. It merely erased the shinobi part of history from history. It's not deleting or restoring a chunk of the timeline.

You all are equating "erasing and restoring Shinobi history" with "erasing and restoring a portion of the timeline during which shinobi existed" without any due reason.
 
There is not such thing as a "finite part of the timeline" 1 second of a timeline is an infinite number of moments. Unless you have any proof that time in Naruto can be quantized, the proof of the existance of a timeline regardless of size it's a low 2-C structure.
As far as I know to gain Low 2-C time should be infinite. Yeah 1 second time still contains uncountable infinity of moments but that's how accepted. This just proves that it's a 4D construct, not Low 2-C as time axis isn't infinite.
 
He doesn't. Shinobi history is not an aspect of a timeline. Erasing Shinobi history had no affects on say the andromeda galaxy or anything of the sort. It merely erased the shinobi part of history from history. It's not deleting or restoring a chunk of the timeline.

You all are equating "erasing and restoring Shinobi history" with "erasing and restoring a portion of the timeline during which shinobi existed" without any due reason.
It doesn't matter. Even though I think that it's more assumptionous to say let's say planet completely erasing but any other things aren't being effected, my point still stands as it's still High 3-A at least
 
It doesn't matter. Even though I think that it's more assumptionous to say let's say planet completely erasing but any other things aren't being effected, my point still stands as it's still High 3-A at least
It just isn't. It's an unquantifiable feat, I don't know how else to explain that to you, so we can just agree to disagree, and leave it at that.
 
Would this have anything to do with snapshots. Since snapshots or rather seconds have their own infinite amount of smaller time frames, and those time frames have an infinite amount of smaller time frames of the universe too…
and that’s just one point on the timeline, there are infinite other points in a timeline, and we know an unqualifiable portion of it was erased and then restored
 
As far as I know to gain Low 2-C time should be infinite. Yeah 1 second time still contains uncountable infinity of moments but that's how accepted. This just proves that it's a 4D construct, not Low 2-C as time axis isn't infinite.
Any 4D dimensional construct is a low 2-C construct by definition, it's size on the time axis it's irrelevant.
 
Would this have anything to do with snapshots. Since snapshots or rather seconds have their own infinite amount of smaller time frames, and those time frames have an infinite amount of smaller time frames of the universe too…
and that’s just one point on the timeline, there are infinite other points in a timeline, and we know an unqualifiable portion of it was erased and then restored
More or less the point is "a moment" or what you call a Snapshot doesn't represent a finite fraction of the timeline. It's like an anime with "infinite FPS" even if the anime itself is only 20 minutes.
 
Y’all still going on about qualifications for H-3A without even addressing why and how anyone scales in details that refutes Arc’s premise. Arc has repeated the same sentence over and over again
C’mon let’s be civilized here.
 
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