Star Wars: Legends Lifting Strength Upgrades

[ShivaShakti]

So a while back I made a thread questioning the Class G rating for Legends canon, resulting in it being downgraded as it apparently wasn't even using the correct evidence. With this in mind I actually started scouring through any potential lifting strength feats, and put them into one page.


It's been a pretty long time since I originally made these posts, so keep that in mind, but here are the the links.

Here is the collection of various feats.

And in this one is a calc for a specific feat from the page above, where Kyp Durron moves a black hole produced by a Dovin Basel.

 

[Tllmbrg]

They seem good to use, just need a calc group member to calc some stuff

 

[CrimsonStarFallen]

Just to add to this, Sidius moved constelations out of orbit himself, which is like Multi-Stellar.

Agree with OP.

 

[ShivaShakti]

To give a more detailed of list of who would scale to what.

Class G and Class Y:
Sith Lords (Darth Vader, Malaak, Nihilus, Maul, Dooku Etc.)
Jedi Masters (Rotj Luke, Obi-Wan, Bastila, Kyle Katarn, Etc.)
Galen Marek / Starkiller

Stellar:
Naga Sadow
Dark Empire / Grand Master Luke
Palpatine
The Hero of Tython
Jacen Solo / Darth Caedus
The Ones of Mortis
Abeloth
Vitiate
Revan (Novel and Shadow keys)
Exar Kun (Post Ritual)
Darth Krayt

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks good.

 

[ShivaShakti]

Hell yeah

 

[Qawsedf234]

Assuming the timing is at least 10 seconds, to travel across the distance of our system in that time frame, it would require a speed of 28.746 Trillion meters per second. Now to get the acceleration we divide our speed result by the time it took to perform said feat which is 10 seconds, giving us an acceleration of 2,874,600,000,000 meters per second in acceleration.

This can't work for the reasons you mentioned. Breaking relativity laws (as this is over 9,500x lightspeed) means you can't get acceleration here. You would just have to factor the mass on its own.

It would be fair to assume some Master level Force User or above, especially Grand Master Luke or Darth Sidious could likely scale.

Why would anyone scale to this. Its a massive amp that makes even baseline/non-impressive force users Solar System destroyers. It scaling to anyone is extremely suspect

. This would scale to anyone who is a Jedi Master (Though it should be noted that Luke had a much easier time performing the feat, while Kyp Durron was extremely drained and fatigued afterward.)

The heck. No it wouldn't. No one besides the literal very best would scale to Kyp in raw telekinetic power, let alone GM Luke. Also I'm like 80% sure this was the other way around, and Luke was far more drained than Kyp was.

 

[ShivaShakti]

snip

1. As I have stated fair enough.

2. "Its a massive amp that makes even baseline / non-impressive force users Solar System Destroys" Then logically people who are already on that level should atleast scale to it, if not above it? Such as Luke and Palpatine.

3. "No one besides the literal very best would scale to Kyp in raw telekinetic power, let alone GM Luke." The Jedi Masters are some of the very best. Kyp is even compared to Obi-Wan in one instance.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Then logically people who are already on that level should atleast scale to it, if not above it?

Considering the extreme ease they do it compared to everyone else I'm iffy on anything other than a possibly rating

3. "No one besides the literal very best would scale to Kyp in raw telekinetic power, let alone GM Luke." The Jedi Masters are some of the very best. Kyp is even compared to Obi-Wan in one instance.

In that same instance you're talking about Kyp says he has more raw force power than Luke (which has been backed up by Luke himself multiple times) and is less exhausted from preforming the feat than Luke was. To suggest that any Jedi Master should scale to Kyp just doesn't work.

Also this is the quote in question for refence:

‘Luke Skywalker tested Kyp’s Jedi power potential. What he discovered was the strongest Force presence he had known since his Masters, Obi-Wan Kenobi and Yoda.‘

- Essential Guide to Characters

In the same line Luke mentions Obi-Wan he also mentions Yoda. Is Obi-Wan stronger than Sidious or Vader?

 

[ShivaShakti]

Considering the extreme ease they do it compared to everyone else I'm iffy on anything other than a possibly rating

In that same instance you're talking about Kyp says he has more raw force power than Luke (which has been backed up by Luke himself multiple times) and is less exhausted from preforming the feat than Luke was. To suggest that any Jedi Master should scale to Kyp just doesn't work.

Also this is the quote in question for refence:

In the same line Luke mentions Obi-Wan he also mentions Yoda. Is Obi-Wan stronger than Sidious or Vader?

I'd be fine with possibly stellar

However if Kyp has more raw force power than Luke, then how outdated is his profile exactly? Nothing on his profile seems to imply such and he has the same Planet level rating you see on most other Force Users in Legends canon. If this is the case, then it sounds like a scaling revision is in order before I can even apply this.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Kyp is outdated, but either way in terms of just TK strength he's one of the strongest in the franchise and no one besides people like GM Luke or DE Sidious would scale to his power out when he's going 100%.

 

[ShivaShakti]

Kyp is outdated, but either way in terms of just TK strength he's one of the strongest in the franchise and no one besides people like GM Luke or DE Sidious would scale to his power out when he's going 100%.

Ah. Then I should probably hold off on this revision until that gets fixed.

 

[Qawsedf234]

For now lets just focus more on the changes to lifting strength for the bulk of the verse, since a Star Destroy being a million tons makes this feat that everyone was previously scaled from Class M rather than G.

Also that Sidious star things seems hyperbolic fluff. Since when the book details the encounter again but from a third person view and it mentions literally none of that.

 

[ShivaShakti]

For now lets just focus more on the changes to lifting strength for the bulk of the verse, since a Star Destroy being a million tons makes this feat that everyone was previously scaled from Class M rather than G.

Also that Sidious star things seems hyperbolic fluff. Since when the book details the encounter again but from a third person view and it mentions literally none of that.

I actually saw this in Anakin's profile.

"Should be superior to Padawan Rivi-Anu who, while injured and exhausted, briefly held up a Venator-class star destroyer [a heavy cruiser class warship whose mass should be several to tens of millions of tonnes]"

Is there an actual calc of this? If so, the Dorsk 81 feat might be alot better.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Dorsk 81 is better, issues is that the people who scale to Dorsk is significantly smaller than the amount that scales to Rivi.

Is there an actual calc of this?

No

 

[ShivaShakti]

Dorsk 81 is better, issues is that the people who scale to Dorsk is significantly smaller than the amount that scales to Rivi.

No

"No Calc"

I see this is becoming a pattern.- Unfortunate.

Well any high level force users can atleast be Class G again now. But anyone on Rivi's level or below has to be scaled back to Class M.

 

[Travgen]

I think it's best if you establish why they would scale. Sometimes certain Force abilities do not scale to the overall Force power of a certain Jedi/Sith.

Saesee Tiin is canonically superior to Yoda when it comes to telepathy. Master Fay achieved immortality through the Force in a degree that would make Vitiate look like a complete joke but both are still inferior Force users.

If the wiki treats overall combative power as equal to the power of specific Force abilities and their capability, then I believe Dooku and Kyle Katarn should be treated differently. But this is another discussion for the scaling revision that's going to happen.

For now lets just focus more on the changes to lifting strength for the bulk of the verse, since a Star Destroy being a million tons makes this feat that everyone was previously scaled from Class M rather than G.

Also that Sidious star things seems hyperbolic fluff. Since when the book details the encounter again but from a third person view and it mentions literally none of that.

As for Sidious's stellar feat being hyperbole, it can go either way in my opinion. We do have to keep in mind that Plagueis's death causes an intensification of Sidious's power. While it took the combined power + months of meditation to shift the Force before, Sidious managed to cause an ever greater imbalance by himself after killing Plagueis. This event is only explained through Sidious's POV. His POV cannot be dismissed because it gives us an information that the third person event lacks:

At the quake’s epicenter stood Sidious, one elegant hand vised on the burnished sill of an expansive translucency, a vessel filled suddenly to bursting, the Force so strong within him that he feared he might disappear into it, never to return. But the moment didn’t constitute an ending so much as a true beginning, long overdue; it was less a transformation than an intensification—a gravitic shift.

This is the moment Sidious reaches his biological limits, where his body can barely contain his power. This claim is reinforced in Dark Empire, Chronicles and Dark Nest. The third person version lacks these important mentions, making it less consistent. On the other hand, Sidious never did anything even close to stellar feats ever again.

 

[Qawsedf234]

On the other hand, Sidious never did anything even close to stellar feats ever again.

That's sort of my point. The third person version lacks this, no other source mentions a massive change in constellations, and in stuff like Dark Empire Sidious had gotten notably stronger through both intense studying and surviving death.

If nothing else I call multi-star lifting strength questionable when a far stronger Luke nearly passed out after moving a planetary mass black hole.

 

[Travgen]

This I can agree with, although that is true for most Force users who benefit more from scaling than feats. The Darth Plagueis novel has some things that are just stupidely out of proportion.

 

[Qawsedf234]

Okay so after thinking here's what I got

• At least Class M: Most notable Jedi/Jedi masters
• Class G: People who have shown to be above 30+ other decent force users, such as Darth Bane and people around his level. For Galen do note that his Star Destroyer feat was preformed before his final encounter with Vader and Sidious, and he got random and massive growth boosts in the game so it may not be that insane to upscale him
• Class Y: Kyp, Jacen, Jaina, Luke, Sidious, and the like
• Still not a fan of scaling people to Stellar though. If we do it would solely be for the DE Sidious/GM Luke people though. Multi-Stellar is a no

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Seems reasonable.

 

[Travgen]

Are these getting applied now or after the main verse revision?

 

[Qawsedf234]

Lifting Strength is minor enough to be changed without needing to worry about conflicting CRTs.

 

[ShivaShakti]

Recently found a lifting strength feat from Obi-Wan that could turn up more impressive results than Class G. When I have it calc'd I'll come back here with it.

 

[Qawsedf234]

You could also do a force calculation for the Anakin feat about the droid starship.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Might want to bring that up in calculations request with a scan.

 

[Qawsedf234]

The pillars or the droid ship?

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I was talking to AogiriKira

 

[Epyriel]

And in this one is a calc for a specific feat from the page above, where Kyp Durron moves a black hole produced by a Dovin Basel.

Unfortunately this is not a real blackhole. Yuuzhan Vong dovin basals generate gravitic anomalies that have been overpowered by Town level X-wing torpedoes and laser fire. Neither Kyp nor Luke scale to moving real blackholes.

 

[LordTracer]

Necro, closing.