Star Wars canon and legends profile revisions.

[Volundox]

I believe that some of the profiles for canon disney may be inaccurate and not display the true capabilities of some of the characters. The first point I want to address is that in many of the profiles it includes that characters can 'cut those with durability similar to General Grievous with their lightsabers' which is a particularly bizzare justification for AP, as lightsabers ignore durability. Although Greivous is somewhat resistant to lightsabers, cutting him should denote striking strength not AP.

Some credit to Reppuzan for these suggestions.

Ventress

Ventress is rated as 8-B likely far higher. This is likely a very low ball as she has consistenly been a match for Anakin Skywalker and Obi-Wan Kenobi. She has also telekinetically matched Luminara Unduli suggesting they are equals. Luminara is rated as at least 7-C, proving that Ventress should be upgraded from 8-B to 7-C.

Ashoka Tano

She is rated as 8-B for her telekenetic feat but may be potentialy higher. She has been portrayed as weaker but somewhat comprable to Barriss Ofee (who we have no profile for) who has accompanied Ashoka on several missions. She is shown to be weaker by her loss on coruscant. Barriss Ofee was able to conceal her prescence from Ventress an assassin capable of fighting Jedi Masters, and was able to penetrate the defences of a very pissed off Anakin Skywalker with a force push suggesting she should scale to Anakin's low end making her 7-C. Ashoka should scale to this as she is only slightly weaker. This isn't very far fetched as Ashoka was offered jedi knight hood in TCW suggesting she should scale to Anakins low end who was also a knight. She also penetrated the defences of Ventress with a force push, albeit she was not expecting the attack.

Grand Inquisitor

Is rated as 8-B for being slightly weaker than Ventress, he would be upgraded to 7-C or low 7-C to match Ventress' upgrades.

Kannan Jarrus

Rated as 7-C for defeating the Grand Inquisitor, he also becomes a knight meaning 7-C is consistent with the low end of Anakin Skywaker and Ashoka Tano.

Grievous

Have the justification 'can cut characters with durability similar to his own removed' as it makes little sense and causes confusion. WeeklyBattles made the argument in a thread that Greivous could never damage Zoro at his strongest because his lightsabers could only hurt people with 7-C durability. I don't think i need to go into why that doesn't make sense. This justification breeds confusion and should be removed. Greivous may also have his durability upgraded for legends on account of tanking a telekenetic blast from Shaak Ti.

TLDR: Sorry for wall of text, I don't usually make threads like this.

Ventress 7-C, matched Lumiara who is at least 7-C. Ashoka Tano 7-C, became a knight, comparable to Barriss Ofee who fought Anakin, can penetrate the defences of Ventress with force powers. Grand Inquisitor 7-C, comparable to Ventress. Kannan Jarrus 7-C, defeated the Grand Inquisitor, became a knight. Grievous, remove misleading justification, possible durability upgrade.

Someone who is more knowledgable may also want to make a profile for Barriss Ofee.

 

[Antvasima]

Somebody should probably inform Soldier Blue and The Everlasting about this thread.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

This seems reasonable to me from the looks of it. But I'll wait on Soldier and Ever for this.

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

Hop will look this over as the resident Canon expert.

 

[Volundox]

^Thank you.

I also just realised that Kannan, a Jedi Knight, is scaled to the Jedi younglings for his building level rating. This is further evidence of him being rated too low as he is being scaled to children who are weaker than padawans.

 

[Volundox]

Bumping for input.

 

[Soldier_Blue]

First of all, I do apologize for not being active this week. I've been dealing with some severe health issues and also some very sensitive family issues. Both happening at once has taken a toll on me and my stress levels are through the roof. I most likely won't be active for the coming week as well. Hence, I would like other members here who are knowledgeable when it comes to Star Wars, such as Hop and Everlasting, to settle this revision.

On topic now.

Ventress is capable of contending with strong Jedi Masters and can even contend for a good while with High Councillor level Jedi such as Obi-Wan and Anakin. They can take her down only when going truly all out and when Anakin goes all Dark Side on her. And her power during the later stages of the Clone Wars was enough to make Sidious of all people consider her an emerging threat. So I support scaling her to the low end for High Councillor level Jedi. As for who else scales to this, I'll let Hop and other members knowledgeable with the Disney canon take care of it.

Again, I do apologize for this.

However, Ezra should probably stay where he is at High 8-C. Being a low level Padawan still early into his training (He can't even Force Jump across a few dozen metre wide chasm, something which even Padawan Ahsoka and current Kanan could do no problem), he should still scale to the High 8-C Ilum feat of those younglings from TCW.

 

[Soldier_Blue]

That reminds me. I would like to take this opportunity to bring up Darth Plagueis.

Darth Plagueis was once placed at Tier 5 but was downgraded to Tier 6 and is currently scaled from Darth Bane as with other Rule of Two era Sith. I proposed earlier that he be put back in Tier 5 seeing as how he should be in the same league as Sidious and was stated by Sidious himself to be more than capable of contending with the best of the Jedi (at a time when the order was thriving under Yoda and their ability to use the Force was not diminished as it was during the Clone Wars). Then there's the fact that Sidious chose to kill the Muun in his sleep, which indicates that he was wary of facing him in an actual battle. And then there's the fact that Plagueis once Force Choked Sidious as a show of dominance.

Here are some excerpts from the Darth Plagueis novel.

Elsewhere on the broad avenue—at key intersections, taxi stops, and mag-lev exits—stood groups of Jedi, a few with the hilts of their lightsabers conspicuously visible. For Palpatine the sight of so many of them in one place was at once exhilarating and sobering. Though thoroughly cloaked in the everyday, he could feel their collective pride trickle into him through the Force. Only the baseness of Coruscant's populace, the almost sheer absence of anything natural, kept the world from being as strong in the light as Korriban was in the dark. While he accepted that he and Plagueis were more than equal to the most powerful of the Jedi Order, he understood that they were no match for their combined strength—the Sith imperative notwithstanding. The Jedi would fall only with the full collaboration of the dark side; that was, only when the dark side of the Force was ready and willing to conspire in their downfall.

Sidious thinks to himself that both he and Plagueis are "more than equal" to the most powerful members of the Jedi Order. This thought came to his mind during his early days in Coruscant politics; a time when the order was thriving under Yoda and a young Mace Windu was rising as a Jedi Knight. It should also be noted that at this time, the ability of the Jedi to use the Force was not diminished as during the final days of the Clone Wars.

"It was Plagueis who criticized the early efforts of his apprentice, and who once choked him in a demonstration of his superiority."

Sidious recalls how Plagueis once Force Choked him as a sign of his superiority.

"Plagueis who had the temerity to criticize his apprentice for having inculcated too much pride in the assassin he had trained.

Plagueis who attempted to turn his equally powerful apprentice into a messenger and mere intermediary.

And Plagueis who watched in secret while his apprentice tasked their true intermediary to reveal the reborn Sith to the galaxy."

Sidious, who despises Plagueis (his gratefulness to him notwithstanding) and is murdering him at the moment, goes on to state that he and his master are indeed equal.

Sidious moved back into the room to take a closer look at Plagueis. Then, after a long moment, he returned to the window and pulled the drapes aside.

His spirit soared, but briefly.

Something was shading his sense of triumph: a vague awareness of a power greater than himself. Was it Plagueis reaching out from the far side of death to vex him? Or was the feeling a mere consequence of apotheosis?

Upon the death of Plagueis, there was a shift in the Dark Side of the Force (as detailed in the prologue of the novel). Sidious sensed something greater than himself. He wonders if it is Plagueis reaching out to him from the nether realm of the Force. So as soon as Sidious senses some great power, possibly at least on his own level or greater, his mind turns to Plagueis. Further indication that these two are in the same league.

Lina Shields, a calc member who is also knowledgeable when it comes to Star Wars, seemed on board with this upgrade in another thread. However, as Lina noted, Darth Tenebrous should not scale to this considering the time gap between his death and the death of Plagueis. During this time, Plagueis continued experimenting, travelling to ancient Sith strongholds, acquiring more Sith artifacts and their knowledge, learning new things, getting stronger. Force Adepts who are middle aged and even old aged getting more and more powerful is nothing new in Star Wars lore. Clone Wars era Obi-Wan (went from getting stomped by Dooku to his near equal in three years) and Cybernetic Vader are good examples of middle aged characters getting stronger (Plagueis was a middle aged Muun at the time of his death). So Tenebrous should stay at High 6-A. This upgrade, if accepted, would apply only to Plagueis.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thank you for the help. I hope that things will work out better for you.

 

[The_Everlasting]

@Blue

Thing is, TPM Sidious isn't as powerful as ROTJ Sidious, though I'm just skimming through your post.

The other upgrades seem fine, though.

 

[Antvasima]

@The Everlasting Feel free to implement them then.

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

POST CONTAINS SPOILERS FOR STAR WARS REBELS

Characters don't evolve much in SW in terms of higher ups. For instance, Yoda is the same from when we first see him to when he dies. Obi-Wan. Luke, Anakin and the other young Jedi/Sith grow in power for the most part, except for maybe Maul. We don't know how much he actually goes up and down, considering he was instakilled by Obi Wan in Twin Suns and that He had fought on par with Kanan for a bit, and even saying Ezra scaling to Vader is dumb since Vader no efforted the whole "fight". He only had trouble with Ahsoka. Which makes sense, being his apprentice and how skilled she is.

As for the other Sith, Dooku isn't any stronger, in fact, we see Anakin constantly stalemate or nearly beat him as the Clone Wars go on. Same with Greivous. Palpatine makes a notice worthy growth though. From however strong he was (think his earliest feat was killing Darth Maul's brother while fighting both of them at the same time) in the PT, to ROTJ, which to be fair, his death was PIS, even though it made sense.

 

[Antvasima]

So, should any of the proposed changes be carried out?

 

[Shadowbokunohero]

i agree with the most of the upgrades except for Ezra, Plagues should definitely be upgraded, look at soldier blue's input at the top for reference.

 

[Volundox]

So the consensus is no upgrade for Ezra? Not that it was ever suggested.

Upgrades for Ventress, Ashoka, Kannan Grand inquisitor and a change in the justification for grievous has been accepted.

No upgrade for plagueis to tier 5.

Does this seem in order with everyone?

Any thoughts on an upgrade on Grievous' durability based on this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5t8A0NUCrI&t=771s 12:20 as I am unsure of it myself.

I also hope that you and your family get better soon.

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

Hop will do all the changes later today.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Thanks.

 

[Hop_Hoppington-Hoppenhiemer]

Hop changed his mind. Hop will not support these changes at the moment. Hop has a seperate revision in mind.

 

[Legion350]

I agree with the upgrades, excluding the one for Ezra.

 

[Volundox]

^There never was an upgrade for Ezra.

^^And thank you for the input I look forward to your future revisions.

 

[Antvasima]

@Hop Okay.