Star Trek Enterprise Phaser Revision

[Idazmi]

Ok. I'll remove the deflector thing, but I'm still keeping the energy fields.

Do they stop weapons?

 

[ByAsura]

Yes, and physical strikes.

 

[Idazmi]

Yes, and physical strikes.

When was this shown for the N-X class?

 

[ByAsura]

When Malcolm first created the energy fields to stop the creature from entering the cargo bay. Trip also set up forcefields to trap possible debris from a Xindi weapon.

 

[Idazmi]

When Malcolm first created the energy fields to stop the creature from entering the cargo bay. Trip also set up forcefields to trap possible debris from a Xindi weapon.

Alright.

 

[ByAsura]

I'm bumping this because you didn't really adress the point about the calc being Small Planet level.

 

[Idazmi]

I'm bumping this because you didn't really adress the point about the calc being Small Planet level.

That's easily too high for the NCC-1701, which is why I contested it in the first place. That would put it above Enterprise-D's Neutron Star feat.

 

[ByAsura]

That's why I'm arguing the feat should be removed.

 

[Idazmi]

That's why I'm arguing the feat should be removed.

No, friend. Your calculation of the Enterprise NCC-1701's atmosphere blasting feat is reliant on a single dodgy assumption that would put it higher tha the Enterprise-D's Neutron Star feat despite nothing in the episode suggesting anywhere close to Small Planet Level yields: the crater the blast actually made certainly isn't anywhere close to Small Planet Level, there's nothing there that can tank Small Planet Level attacks that we can scale the feat to, and the dialogue itself only indicates half the atmosphere being ripped away: not half the planet's crust being blasted into high orbit.

The feat stays under it's current listed yield, which is Multi-Continent Level as shown in the episode, and in all of the other episodes where antimatter bombs are used, not Small Planet Level because you can inflate the yield by taking a single example of visual distance too literally - we don't even see the Enterprise when the bomb actually detonates, so we can't even say how low or high up they actually were when the bomb went off.

 

[ByAsura]

First of all, you're completely wrong. I did not calc half the crust being torn off into space, I calculated half the atmosphere being plunged into high-orbit, which the episode says it did. Second of all, it created a massive crater and wiped away the entire surface. The wiki uses energy, not destructive capacity, so it's Small Planet level to tear an atmosphere into space.

Fine, if it stays there, however, the exact calculation should be removed, as it relies on the same method of calculation I and the person who created it also used. We actually see it when the ship leaves, and it's not much lower at around 5000 kilometers. I did not inflate it using visuals, and Spock actually implies the Enterprise moved to an even higher orbit, which would likely be High Earth Orbit given the context.

• KIRK: Kirk to Enterprise.
  SPOCK [OC]: Spock here, Captain.
  KIRK: Proceed immediately to maximum orbit.
  SPOCK [OC]: Acknowledged.

Edit: Turns out I did the calc wrong. The result is now Low-End Moon level, but I found a visual after they leave that gets it into High-End Multi-Continent level. I'll post later.

 

[Idazmi]

First of all, you're completely wrong. I did not calc half the crust being torn off into space, I calculated half the atmosphere being plunged into high-orbit, which the episode says it did. Second of all, it created a massive crater and wiped away the entire surface. The wiki uses energy, not destructive capacity, so it's Small Planet level to tear an atmosphere into space.

http://www.projectrho.com/public_html/rocket/usefultables.php

The energy needed to blast away an atmosphere - which is merely air - is nowhere near Small Planet Level, therefore the energy of the attack was not Small Planet Level. I mention the crust being torn off into space because that's exactly what would happen in the event of a Small Planet Level impact.

Fine, if it stays there, however, the exact calculation should be removed, as it relies on the same method of calculation I and the person who created it also used. We actually see it when the ship leaves, and it's not much lower at around 5000 kilometers. I did not inflate it using visuals (...)

You say this while using your visual estimation of the Enterprise's position as the focal point of your entire argument. The calculation I'm using is based on the fact that the planet's surface was - aside from the blast crater - largely intact, while the atmosphere was blown away. Your calculation would result in far, far, more damage being done than what's shown.

Spock actually implies the Enterprise moved to an even higher orbit, which would likely be High Earth Orbit given the context.

A Moon Level explosion on the surface would still blast a chunk of the planet's solid mass into orbit, even at the low end. There's also the fact that the Enterprise was not damaged, or even shake by the blast in the episode, so you can't say the atmosphere had enough energy to harm the ship at maximum orbit.

 

[ByAsura]

My calc is a lot lower, as I've explained, but I feel this points should be adressed. I already adressed this point. The calculation uses kinetic energy, and the atmosphere 5.148e+18 kilograms on average, even inspite of being "merely air".

Actually, I did a calculation based on the feat.
The minimum speed to break orbit is 11.2 km/s, and the Earth's atmosphere is 5.148e+18 kg

(0.5)(5.148e+18)(11200^2) = 77.1707839388 Petatons

Since the results are the same, I assume this is where the calc got its value from.

However, I did a calc here that uses the speed from the Enterprise's orbital position. I got 6.36627759053 Zettatons, thousands of times higher, and well into Small Planet level.

First of all, Kirk says they went to the planet's highest orbit. Second, it's fiction, not real life. The fact that the entire mantle isn't blown off doesn't prove your argument, especially since half the whole atmosphere is still gone. Third, the entire surface is gone. We see no bodies of water, continents, or cloud across the entire planet.

That's a lie. It was shaken from that position, quite heavily in fact. The Enterprise wouldn't have taken anywhere near the full explosion, as explosions are omnidirectional, and the ship has billions less surface area than a planet's surface, let alone the area of its highest orbit. Also, you seem to ignore that my calc is more likely Multi-Continent level now.

 

[Idazmi]

My calc is a lot lower, as I've explained, but I feel this points should be adressed. I already adressed this point. The calculation uses kinetic energy, and the atmosphere 5.148e+18 kilograms on average, even inspite of being "merely air".

I know that. Your calculation is saying that a blast that can throw continents into orbit is what's needed to throw air into orbit.

First of all, Kirk says they went to the planet's highest orbit. Second, it's fiction, not real life. The fact that the entire mantle isn't blown off doesn't prove your argument, especially since half the whole atmosphere is still gone. Third, the entire surface is gone. We see no bodies of water, continents, or cloud across the entire planet.

The planet had very little water (compared to Earth) even before the blast.

That's a lie. It was shaken from that position, quite heavily in fact. The Enterprise wouldn't have taken anywhere near the full explosion, as explosions are omnidirectional, and the ship has billions less surface area than a planet's surface, let alone the area of its highest orbit.

The scene cuts directly from the explosion on the surface to the Enterprise in orbit as the transporter retrieves Kirk and Garrovick, and the Enterprise is not shaking. At all. EDIT: My mistake: seconds afterwards, Enterprise rocks twice, but without the force necessary to even throw standing, unrestrained people off their feet. That still won't get you results anywhere near the destruction of a moon.

Also, you seem to ignore that my calc is more likely Multi-Continent level now.

It's not "more likely". It literally is Multi-Continent Level.

 

[ByAsura]

Yes, and that's based on the speed at which it is done. Plus, this doesn't even debunk the fact that it was done, and even your says the blast has enough energy to destroy the entire crust and create a far larger crater than what was shown on screen.

That's irrelevant, both the water and continents are clearly gone.

Yes it does. 20 seconds after the blast

• CHEKOV [OC]: All decks, stand by. Shock waves.
• (The ship is shaken, and still nothing appears on the transporter pad.)

I'm talking about just my calc, not what you think the feat is. I haven't even posted it yet.

 

[Idazmi]

Yes, and that's based on the speed at which it is done.

That's irrelevant, both the water and continents are clearly gone.

The water is gone, you mean. The planet's surface is still intact. Continents float on top of the mantle, so if the continents were gone, there'd be a floating ball of magma in space.

Yes it does. 20 seconds after the blast

I had corrected that statement just before you posted this comment. It's still nowhere near moon level: a moon level blast from there would destroy the Enterprise.

I'm talking about just my calc, not what you think the feat is.

I barely have to think about it. The bomb blew away air and water (the bodies of water being much smaller and more shallow than Earth's), leaving the rocky surface largely intact. A Multi-Continent Level blast will do that.

 

[ByAsura]

Look at the previous two: the first one has distinctive continents, this has a virtually pulverized surface. Also, I didn't say it destroyed the entire crust, the upper mantle isn't entirely magma, and that explosion is powerful enough to destroy it entirely by the calc you've provided.

I'm gonna quote myself here "The Enterprise wouldn't have taken anywhere near the full explosion, as explosions are omnidirectional, and the ship has billions less surface area than a planet's surface, let alone the area of its highest orbit."

Like I said, I did a recalc. It's Multi-Continent level, but higher than the previous one.

 

[ByAsura]

@Enterprise This is the Original Series, which had no such statement or non-canon technical manual to back anything like this. It is far consistent that the Enterprise can destroy the surfaces of planets, or at least their inhabited portions. This has been stated and shown on multiple occasions, such as Elaan of Troyius, Bread and Circuses, and A Taste For Armageddo. It's literaly a General Order, and even the Defiant would have reduced the Dominion Homeworld "to a smoking cinder" were it not for Worf's intervention.

 

[Enterprise_NCC-1701-E]

So how powerful is the definite Lage Island to Country Level Minimum. to Continent to Moon Level Maximum then wow star trek seems way to overpowered even withen this universe. The Galaxy ClassPhasers should Be able to Handle 400 Gigatons Per Segiment Per Emitter No Issue. How Fast are star trek ships when using normal warp drives and not transwarp quantum slipstream drives alien gods or other alien technology.

 

[ByAsura]

This is in response to the deleted comment because I can't really understand this one, no offense.

In real life, antimatter is that powerful, but this is fiction, where antimatter-based photon torpedoes comonly create explosions powerful enough to be seen from space. Also, what makes more sense; an inconsistent, offhand statement that the Enterprise can produce a certain amount of energy (such as 40 gigawatts), or more consistent statements and feats where they move small moons, tectonic plates, stellar fragments, destroy planetary surfaces in hours, etc. In fact, even the energy statements sometimes point to it being higher, like an 90 isoton explosion creating an explosion with a radius of 800 kilometers.

In very, very early DS9, as in the first episode it's introduced, the Defiant is unable to keep itself from tearing apart when the ship's engines are tested at full due to being overgunned for its size. This problem is fixed in its second or third appearance after they overhaul its structural integrity field.

A torpedo would not have 1/360th of its regular yield, that would be the energy the target is hit by, assuming it doesn't have enough surface area. That shouldn't even downgrade the full yield of the torpedo.

 

[Enterprise_NCC-1701-E]

That is fine Ture.I forgot about that i wanted to keep the torpedo yields withen normal possible means not realizing that fiction is overpowered sometimes. I messed that statement up ture but I thought isotons were measures in low megaton ranges and not double digit petaton ranges. I amssuming treks antimatter is many times more powerful than normal I accidently become Mike Wong and for that I am sorry. I have read too much ISD.net for my trek and wars infomation. I will do a better do diligence to read better sources for my infomation next time. Yeay so TOS and TNG makes even more sense now that I know that the enterprise can go hundreds of trillions the speed of light blow up continents moons move planets and stars now thanks .

 

[Idazmi]

This is in response to the deleted comment because I can't really understand this one, no offense.

In real life, antimatter is that powerful, but this is fiction, where antimatter-based photon torpedoes comonly create explosions powerful enough to be seen from space. Also, what makes more sense; an inconsistent, offhand statement that the Enterprise can produce a certain amount of energy (such as 40 gigawatts), or more consistent statements and feats where they move small moons, tectonic plates, stellar fragments, destroy planetary surfaces in hours, etc. In fact, even the energy statements sometimes point to it being higher, like an 90 isoton explosion creating an explosion with a radius of 800 kilometers.

In very, very early DS9, as in the first episode it's introduced, the Defiant is unable to keep itself from tearing apart when the ship's engines are tested at full due to being overgunned for its size. This problem is fixed in its second or third appearance after they overhaul its structural integrity field.

A torpedo would not have 1/360th of its regular yield, that would be the energy the target is hit by, assuming it doesn't have enough surface area. That shouldn't even downgrade the full yield of the torpedo.

Just FYI, "Enterprise NCC-1701-E " is just an Alt account of Supreme-Emperor-Over from the previous threads I've been in. I recognize his scattershot style and tendency to delete his own comments.

 

[Enterprise_NCC-1701-E]

This is in response to the deleted comment because I can't really understand this one, no offense.

In real life, antimatter is that powerful, but this is fiction, where antimatter-based photon torpedoes comonly create explosions powerful enough to be seen from space. Also, what makes more sense; an inconsistent, offhand statement that the Enterprise can produce a certain amount of energy (such as 40 gigawatts), or more consistent statements and feats where they move small moons, tectonic plates, stellar fragments, destroy planetary surfaces in hours, etc. In fact, even the energy statements sometimes point to it being higher, like an 90 isoton explosion creating an explosion with a radius of 800 kilometers.

In very, very early DS9, as in the first episode it's introduced, the Defiant is unable to keep itself from tearing apart when the ship's engines are tested at full due to being overgunned for its size. This problem is fixed in its second or third appearance after they overhaul its structural integrity field.

A torpedo would not have 1/360th of its regular yield, that would be the energy the target is hit by, assuming it doesn't have enough surface area. That shouldn't even downgrade the full yield of the torpedo.

Just FYI, "Enterprise NCC-1701-E " is just an Alt account of Supreme-Emperor-Over from the previous threads I've been in. I recognize his scattershot style and tendency to delete his own comments.

I deleted that account but that is my deviantart username.So it is not a altered account but a new one. We need a USS Enterprise E Page and an NX01 Page so lets do that. Photon Torpedoes whould release afraction of thier potential not because of their lack of power but because their are aera of effct weapons and whould spreard out and lose thier punch even more so in a planetary or stellar grade environment. Second we haver possibly even high accounts of federation firepower that needs to be addressed. and Scimitar the Borg Dominion and the USS Vengeance all need thier pages. Phasers are likey in the single to triple diget teraton range per second per emitter likey high with the TNG DS0 VOY and the TNG Movies. Sorry for that long replay.

 

[ByAsura]

I've been planning to create an NX-01 and Dominion page for a while now. The latter is already done, I just need to get a feat calced. The Borg already have a page — one which I plan to reformat soon because it should be set out like a civilzation.

Maybe Photon Torpedoes hit a target with a fraction of the power, but they shouldn't be downgraded just because of that. The full power of the explosion is Multi-Continent level or Moon level.

 

[Enterprise_NCC-1701-E]

Yes I Agree what about doing a Photon Torpedo Quantum Torpedo Phased Polaron Plasma and Transphasic Torpedo page. How Powerful are phasers like the type 10 and type 12 phaser arrays. Torpedoes should be Multi Continent level to Moon Level phasers should be Large Country to Continent Level Maximum with Small Country to Country Level Being Normal.

 

[ByAsura]

We already have a page for transphasic torpedoes. From what I can tell, it depends on the ship more than the type of phaser, and it doesn't really matter. Maybe it'll be created, I'm planning to do a USS Defiant page.

 

[Enterprise_NCC-1701-E]

Thanks man I own you one mate.what about the enterprise e

 

[Enterprise_NCC-1701-E]

Make and Enterprise E and a NX01 page