Soul King Fullbringer Abilities CRT

[Damage3245]

As I brought up in this CRT, I believe that the Soul King's tab for "With Fullbringer powers" should be revised.

This is one of the main points for the Soul King:

“He was a Quincy and also at the same time a Soul Reaper, and also just a normal person bearing countless abilities like a Fullbringer. He was the symbol of hope who ruled over all in the chaotic world.”

At one time it was interpreted to mean "he has countless abilities such as the Fullbringers" and so every Fullbringer's unique ability sets was added to the Soul King.

Supporting evidence was given for this as each Fullbringer's abilities originate from having a tiny fragment of the Soul King bound to them (which apparently is why Hollows attack them and seemingly awaken their abilities). But each Fullbringer forms their ability by having an affinity with a specific object, except Aura who just has the standard Fullbringer abilities turned up to eleven. The Soul King doesn't have the same kind of affinity as each of the Fullbringers do. We don't even know if the abilities they each awakened to is something that the Soul King originally posssessed.

I think that the Soul King, just as he would possess the standard Quincy ability set and standard Shinigami ability set, should also have the standard Fullbringer ability set but he should not have the unique individual abilities possessed by each Fullbringer.

There is nothing in the manga or the novels that I can find that says he can use Book of the End, or Shun Shun Rikka, or Invaders Must Die, etc.

So in summary; we remove the specific abilities used by other Fullbringers, and update Soul King to use standard Fullbringer abilities.

 

[KingTempest]

This looks pretty fair, I agree for now, but I could've sworn there was something that said "all of these abilities came from him" or something, might be about The Quincy

 

[PrinceofPein]

Agreed

 

[Loyd]

Makes sense ig, atleast he'll get all of Aura's abilities.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

This makes sense, I agree.

 

[Starter_Pack]

This looks fine and reasonable.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Do you have the page number for this, I wanna peep the raws.

 

[Damage3245]

Do you have the page number for this, I wanna peep the raws.

Page 140-141 of Book 3.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Thanks! Tentatively I don’t disagree with the CRT personally I find “possibly all Fullbring abilities to be fine but I wanna check the raws to see if it leans toward either being more consistent.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

except Aura who just has the standard Fullbringer abilities turned up to eleven.

As an aside, Soul King should keep any Fullbring abilities Aura has based on this.

 

[Damage3245]

As an aside, Soul King should keep any Fullbring abilities Aura has based on this.

Technically speaking we don't know the Soul King's level of skill with Fullbringer powers.

As a Fullbringer the Soul King should be capable of anything that all Fullbringers can do, but none of the other Fullbringers showcase some of the abilities used by Aura.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

Yes and no, as you said we can't prove that Reio has the same emotional attachments that would enable him to awaken the abilities exactly like most (ie Yukio with his psp), but Aura just uses the fundamental Fullbring abilities any Fullbringer can use cranked to 11 as you said. Reio being someone who "transcended everything" and possessed countless unique Fullbring abilities should certainly be masterfully skilled with the Fullbring powers basic capabilities. Arguing Aura is more skilled than the verse God who transcends everything defeats the narrative.

 

[Damage3245]

"Transcends everything" is a very open-ended statement that we have to look at it a bit critically and wonder what it can actually mean in useful terms. Aura did not exist at the same time as the prime Soul King. In fact we don't know if any other Fullbringers did.

For Soul King to be the best Fullbringer at the time when he was in his prime, doesn't require us to also assume he has to surpass Aura in every way.

The narrative argument doesn't support that, just going off that statement alone.

(Not to drag in other verses) but to give an example, almost everything in Dragon Ball is Ki-related. If a character was introduced as "the most powerful Ki user ever, who transcends all Ki users" then I don't think we'd automatically give him every Ki-related ability showcased by every other character.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

The narrative argument doesn't support that, just going off that statement alone.

I'd still have to disagree, Reio in his Prime his hyped up to be the pinnacle of all existence. Aura is only capable of mastering the basic Fullbring abilities to such an extent because she has merely a piece of Reio.

"Transcends everything" is a very open-ended statement that we have to look at it a bit critically and wonder what it can actually mean in useful terms. Aura did not exist at the same time as the prime Soul King. In fact we don't know if any other Fullbringers did.

The narrative argument doesn't support that, just going off that statement alone.

Yes I agree that statement alone is not sufficient, it was more so support.

 

[T2KBaka]

Sorry to interfere, but in regards to Ki. If a Ki user is the most powerful/talented Ki user, then I don't see why they can't replicate all Ki techniques considering how Ki works and how versatile it is. The control they would have would allow them to do an endless amount of things (Ki objects, techniques, etc), and the basic Fullbring stuff that Aura does goes to the extend of manipulating matter.

Aura is just utilizing the basic fullbring abilities to the highest level of degree, the Soul King who would be the original and best user of Fullbring abilities (since every other user needs a part of him) should be able to replicate her feats at least.

 

[Damage3245]

Sorry to interfere, but in regards to Ki. If a Ki user is the most powerful/talented Ki user, then I don't see why they can't replicate all Ki techniques considering how Ki works and how versatile it is.

Because most powerful =/= most talented.

Also, you can still be the best at something and still not have every hypothetical capability and application of it.

Urahara is a Kido genius, but unless we had a statement of "Urahara mastered every known Kido" I still wouldn't assume he can use every Kido ability used by anyone else.

Aura is just utilizing the basic fullbring abilities to the highest level of degree, the Soul King who would be the original and best user of Fullbring abilities should be able to replicate her feats at least.

Where is it stated that the Soul King has better control than Aura?

I want us to limit the amount of assumptions we have to make here, which is one of the main reasons why this CRT exists.

I'd still have to disagree, Reio in his Prime his hyped up to be the pinnacle of all existence. Aura is only capable of mastering the basic Fullbring abilities to such an extent because she has merely a piece of Reio.

But what's the evidence of this? A statement like "The Soul King transcended everything" is not a sufficient statement to me.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

But what's the evidence of this? A statement like "The Soul King transcended everything" is not a sufficient statement to me.

Pretty much the entire time he’s mentioned by Ichibe, I don’t have the time to quote it rn.

 

[Damage3245]

Pretty much the entire time he’s mentioned by Ichibe, I don’t have the time to quote it rn.

The relevant quotes from him seem to be:

“He was a Quincy and also at the same time a Soul Reaper, and also just a normal person bearing countless abilities like a Fullbringer. He was the symbol of hope who ruled over all in the chaotic world.”

“Indeed. Others such as myself, with special abilities, had appeared, but the Reio was exceptional. It may even be said he had a power that was close to being almighty, omniscient and omnipotent.”

In order to make the separation of the three realms reality, they required the power of the man who had transcended everything.

Can't find anything else relevant.

I'm willing to concede on a compromise of giving the Soul King the basic abilities, and giving him a possibly for the abilities displayed by Aura.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I'm willing to concede on a compromise of giving the Soul King the basic abilities, and giving him a possibly for the abilities displayed by Aura.

I'm satisfied with this

 

[T2KBaka]

Because most powerful =/= most talented.

Also, you can still be the best at something and still not have every hypothetical capability and application of it.

Urahara is a Kido genius, but unless we had a statement of "Urahara mastered every known Kido" I still wouldn't assume he can use every Kido ability used by anyone else.

I understand that most power =/= most talented, I should've worded it better. When it comes to the Kido thing, Aizen for example was effortlessly using Hado 99 without incantation and the higher the number the more difficult it becomes to use, but the more powerful it is. So I would assume if a character is able to use the lower level Kido as well, if they can perform the higher level ones without effort.


But you don't want assumptions so I'll just leave it at that, your compromise is better since it leaves less to assumptions and uses what info we have.

 

[Yomi_Schwarz]

We don't even know if the abilities they each awakened to is something that the Soul King originally posssessed.

The same is true for Yhwach and the schrifts tho but he can still use the schrift can't he?

The empowerment via distributing pieces of your soul thing in Bleach isn't really "power bestowal" but more like "power awakening" and none of the abilities the sternritter possessed came from Yhwach? Yet Yhwach is still able to use them.

 

[T2KBaka]

The same is true for Yhwach and the schrifts tho but he can still use the schrift can't he?

The empowerment via distributing pieces of your soul thing in Bleach isn't really "power bestowal" but more like "power awakening" and none of the abilities the sternritter possessed came from Yhwach? Yet Yhwach is still able to use them.

Yhwach is different because of the ritual they did for the letter/schrift. He plants a piece of his soul and when they die he absorbs their soul, power and all the knowledge they gained through their lifetime.

 

[Yomi_Schwarz]

Yhwach is different because of the ritual they did for the letter/schrift. He plants a piece of his soul and when they die he absorbs their soul, power and all the knowledge they gained through their lifetime.

I was more so commenting on the "originally possessed" part of the thread.

And since we compare schrifts to fullbring in terms of fundamentals (as this thread did), don't we have grounds to assume they would function the same?

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I wanna check the raws to see if it leans toward either being more consistent.

I will send a message about this tomorrow if I end up having time for it, if I don't got time I'll also message here tomorrow and say move on without me for this part.

 

[Damage3245]

And since we compare schrifts to fullbring in terms of fundamentals (as this thread did), don't we have grounds to assume they would function the same?

We did? I don't remember asserting that.

But anyway, it looks like the consensus is to make the changes to the Soul King's profile given that Arc has accepted the compromise and staff members have accepted the OP.

I'll be making the change soon.

 

[Yomi_Schwarz]

Yeah, I also agree with the compromise. Nothing too controversial

 

[Deceived3596]

We should wait until tomorrow to see if Arc's translations effect this change or not. I don't believe we should go willy-nilly with changing things without a little more concrete evidence behind the claims.

Also since Arc did say he wanted to post within this thread tomorrow it would be basic common courtesy to wait until he does. if he doesn't then the changes can be added.

There's no need to rush this thread when it has only been a day.

 

[KazuiK]

I agree

 

[Reio35]

In the novels it's stated he's the ancestor of all full bringers and qunciy. The reason aura can even use full bring to the degree that she does is because she has a organ of the soul king.

Soul king having all fullbrings should stay the same. He literally created the material world. While other fullbringers can only control parts of material world.

 

[Arc7Kuroi]

I ain’t got time proceed without me

 

[Duedate8898]

Makes sense, I support just giving him the basic Fullbring abilities

 

[Damage3245]

Okay. I'll be updating the Soul King's profile later this morning. Thanks for commenting everyone.

 

[Reio35]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/941245992060207174/941246177226137600/lm8YreTklDE.jpg

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/941245992060207174/941246177557483561/3PRVsLHhNkM.jpg

So here it explains that the reio fragments is what gives the fullbringers their powers. In the same way the hogyoku granted aizens powers. So the reio should also have access to all these powers.

 

[Duedate8898]

You posted the same link twice

 

[Damage3245]

@Reio35; actually that section of the novel is proof that he shouldn't have them.

The quote is:

He had no idea what kind of influence the different parts of the Reio could have, but if a Soul Reaper becoming possessed by a part like Mimihagi had ended up like that, then when a fragment fused with a human, he guessed it would have an influence similar to the Hogyoku.
The Hogyoku—a device that would alter the very world as it fulfilled the desires of those around it. If one were to use the Fragments of the Reio in its place, it wouldn’t be strange for them to be invoked using Fullbrings that turned attachments into abilities.

The Soul King doesn't have the attachments that the other Fullbringers do, he wouldn't be able to use those attachments as abilities.

 

[Reio35]

You posted the same link twice

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/941245992060207174/941246177557483561/3PRVsLHhNkM.jpg

I posted the wrong link here is the other part

 

[Reio35]

@Reio35; actually that section of the novel is proof that he shouldn't have them.

The quote is:



The Soul King doesn't have the attachments that the other Fullbringers do, he wouldn't be able to use those attachments as abilities.

How so? It says the fragments is what gives them the power similar to how the hogykou gives aizen his power

 

[Duedate8898]

The hogykou grants the desires of its user last I checked, it's only power is that of granting powers so I don't see how those scans are proof that Reio should have the powers of other Fullbringers. It, as Damage says himself, seems to go against the idea actually.

 

[Damage3245]

How so? It says the fragments is what gives them the power similar to how the hogykou gives aizen his power

I'm not going to keep arguing this, but I already acknowledged this in the OP. The Soul King's fragments being bound to them isn't proof alone that the Soul King can do everything they can do. They can just be the impetus for developing those abilities. He doesn't have the same attachments as them so it is questionable if he can even use Fullbring like they do.

I'll be updating the profile soon.

 

[Reio35]

Fine