Soul Calibur: Potential AP Changes (Original Timeline)

[Dust_Collector]

So my cousin is big into Soul Calibur and recently she made me play through the games with her, pretty good time, and I noticed that despite the statements for it we don't seem to treat Soul Edge as creating Astral Chaos (Although that could be due to certain statements made in New Legends of Project Souls) and I also realized that there's a couple of issues with the current scaling of Abyss and the eclipse he caused. Only touching on the original timeline since I haven't looked into SC6 that much. No idea if this will result in downgrades, upgrades, or even just changes in the current justifications for their tiers.

Abyss:

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So starting with the Abyss stuff, we currently have Abyss at moon level for his eclipse feat and then scale a weakened Soul Edge / Soul Calibur to half his power due to Siegfried and Nightmare teaming up to fight and beat him, all well and good but unless I'm missing something this... never actually happened. All references to the ending of Soul Calibur 3 just talk about Siegfried and Nightmare fighting each other with 0 mention of them apparently working together to defeat Abyss and Zasalamel's SC4 opening just mentions him getting blasted with the swords combined power and no mention of his transformation into Abyss. The only other related things I could find in relation to this was from the official strategy guide which just says the clash of the swords swept Zaselamel in their power sending him beyond time and space, so not much different that the ingame description (Minus the weird time and space thing). The New Legends of Project Souls artbook contains a timeline of events where again it states that Nightmare and Siegfried clashed and destroyed the Lost Cathedral (Which goes against it being destroyed by Abyss) but not even the slightest hint to a fight with Abyss. From what I can tell the only thing that states they teamed up and fought Abyss is the Soul Calibur Wiki (With no sources from what I can tell) and everyone just rolled with it.

So what does this mean? Well using non canon endings isn't new for fighting game profiles here, so while it never happened canonically it was still shown in Soul Calibur 3 that the combined power of Soul Edge and Nightmare created Abyss and thus caused the eclipse, so we could keep the ratings on the basis of it being an intended demonstration of the swords powers, the only thing that'd need to be changed are the justifications. Something like just how the combined power of the swords could cause this instead of Siegfried and Nightmare teaming up on Abyss since afaik that never happened even in non canon endings. Although if we wanted to be stingy then we could disregard it altogether on the basis of it not happening.

Astral Chaos:

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Moving onto Soul Edge, Astral Chaos, and Algol. Soul Calibur for the dreamcast had statements of Soul Edge / Inferno creating the dimension, the New Legends of Project Souls states that Astral Chaos is a "manifestation of Soul Edge's inner world" and that it was formed by it's memories of battle as well as the souls it absorbed, and while a bit more dubious of a source the official guide for Soul Calibur 4 also states that Soul Edge created the dimension. So standard pocket dimension stuff, easy to scale to Soul Edge and all that right? Maybe, maybe not. It is stated in the New Legends artbook that Soul Edge draws power from Astral Chaos so that could help scaling it's normal energy output to the creation of the realm (Plus given it's main source of gaining / regaining power is soul stealing and the souls it takes helped make the realm could help scaling to the creation of Astral Chaos). However Algol who is argubly superior to Soul Edge, to the point of being able to recreate both it and Soul Calibur with his powers as stated in the previous scan I linked, could put a dent in this scaling.

We currently scale Algol to Planet / Multi-Solar System level for having full control over Astral Chaos which stated to give those who master it's energies the power to create / destroy entire worlds. Which is cool and all but the scan used to justify this on his profile straight up says he doesn't have full control over the realm, stating that his "mastery is still in development". So you could argue that you need full control of the realm to create / destroy worlds, and Algol, a dude argubly superior to Soul Edge, has very much not reached full mastery of Astral Chaos yet and therefore he, and by extension Soul Edge, doesn't have that kind of power. You could also not take too much stock in statements from the New Legends book about having pieces of our world in there and say the size of Astral Chaos and what it contains isn't quanitifible due to the statement in Soul Calibur about how we can't actually see what it truly looks like and that it's only meant to contain hellfire

Now I ain't here to propose a solid upgrade for Soul Edge tier characters or to downgrade Algol and Edgemaster (Unfortunate name) based on this, but at the very least if we decide to upgrade Soul Edge itself to 5-B/4-A then Argol would need a tweak in his justifcations since he explictly does not have full mastery over Astral Chaos yet despite what his profile currently states. And if we decide Soul Edge doesn't scale then I think Algol would need to be downgraded to whatever the blade is since, again, he hasn't mastered the energies of Astral Chaos.

Conclusion:

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So with all that I think there's 4 options to work with in regards to all this:

1. Keep the 5-C/High 6-A scaling from the eclipse while changing the justifications, and downgrading Algol due to the statement of him mastering Astral Chaos actually saying he hasn't mastered it yet
2. Upgrading the 5-C/High 6-A characters to 5-B, possibly 4-A due to Soul Edge creating Astral Chaos
3. Deciding both the eclipse and Astral Chaos stuff needs to go and then finding a new tier for everyone but I dunno what exactly they'd scale to if we go this route
4. Call me stupid and change nothing

As for which one of these options I think is more valid, tbh I personally lean towards either the first 2 but can kinda see why some might agree with the third option. Don't agree with the fourth option at all because it would hurt my feelings.
Option 1:
Option 2: DarkDragonMedeus, XSOULOFCINDERX
Option 3:

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I'm leaning towards option 2 for now.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I'm leaning towards option 2 for now.

Same. I also could've sworn there were statements of Astral Chaos being an entire universe too. At the very least it encompasses the timeline since Soul Calibur 6 shows it breaches the barriers between the Pre and Post-Retcon timelines of 5 and 6, not to mention the Star Wars Crossover from SC4 having the characters straight up arrive from an alternate universe because of Siegfried and Nightmare fighting so hard that it created a wormhole to the Star Wars universe.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Same. I also could've sworn there were statements of Astral Chaos being an entire universe too. At the very least it encompasses the timeline since Soul Calibur 6 shows it breaches the barriers between the Pre and Post-Retcon timelines of 5 and 6, not to mention the Star Wars Crossover from SC4 having the characters straight up arrive from an alternate universe because of Siegfried and Nightmare fighting so hard that it created a wormhole to the Star Wars universe.

Haven't been able to find any direct statements of it being a universe (Like I said in the OP the only game I've haven't checked out yet is 6), but you could maybe get something outta it being called the "other side" of our world if you wanna highball it.

If SC6 shows it connects the original and new timeline then that could also lead to something, Soul Calibur 5 also seems to show the dimension not abiding by normal time since Patroklos used it to go back in time to before he killed his sister with Edgemaster saying souls of all places and times showing up in the realm. Dunno how legit the Star Wars stuff is mostly because I'm not sure what the exact standards are for crossover characters that have their own stories but the part of it creating a wormhole to their universe is only interdimension range. Granted I think Darth Vaders intro text for his story mode mentions something that could be arguably make Soul Edge universal but again, not sure how legit crossover stuff can be.

 

[Dust_Collector]

Also Soul Calibur being universal while still being stuck at single digit mach speeds would be funny as hell

 

[Dust_Collector]

bump

 

[Dust_Collector]

bump

 

[BlackDarkness679]

I dug up on previous threads for Soul Calibur, Abyss feat comes from the stage descriptiom you fight him, which says this:

"The showdown that took place in this cathedral of light and water was tainted by Zasalamel, the man who seeks death. At that time, the sun faded away, as if overcome by evil, and though it was midday, the world became shrouded in darkness. Abyss, the terrible entity created by Soul Calibur and Soul Edge destroyed the cathedral itself. The energy released by Abyss caused the power of the earth to awake. Billowing clouds of steam began to rise from the grounds of this palace built upon the nexus of the world's spiritual energy lines. The pure light took on an evil glow and began to twist the hearts of men. The pure water swirled violently and became muddy, releasing the odor of death. This once holy place was turned into a violent land ruled by terror..."

This was counted as a 5-C feat, yet the scan on the profile is an image not proving any of that honestly

i also found a scan in regards to Necrid character (partially owned by Spawn creator) mentioning this:

Yet nobody even cared of this one back then for some reason

 

[Dust_Collector]

I dug up on previous threads for Soul Calibur, Abyss feat comes from the stage descriptiom you fight him, which says this:

"The showdown that took place in this cathedral of light and water was tainted by Zasalamel, the man who seeks death. At that time, the sun faded away, as if overcome by evil, and though it was midday, the world became shrouded in darkness. Abyss, the terrible entity created by Soul Calibur and Soul Edge destroyed the cathedral itself. The energy released by Abyss caused the power of the earth to awake. Billowing clouds of steam began to rise from the grounds of this palace built upon the nexus of the world's spiritual energy lines. The pure light took on an evil glow and began to twist the hearts of men. The pure water swirled violently and became muddy, releasing the odor of death. This once holy place was turned into a violent land ruled by terror..."

This was counted as a 5-C feat, yet the scan on the profile is an image not proving any of that honestly

The image doesn't do a good job, but it's meant to be a showcase of the sun being eclipsed. Would be way more effective if it showed a before and after.

i also found a scan in regards to Necrid character (partially owned by Spawn creator) mentioning this:

Yet nobody even cared of this one back then for some reason

tbf I don't think we'd get much out of this anyway since that level of power is stated to come one day in the future when it's strong enough not something it was currently capable of while being wielded by Necrid.

 

[Hellbeast]

I actually lowkey vibe with 3) the most and I think I have an idea of where we could put them

 

[BlackDarkness679]

The image doesn't do a good job, but it's meant to be a showcase of the sun being eclipsed. Would be way more effective if it showed a before and after.

Pretty much, but also simply add the description itself, cuz that is more direct then a simple image which by itself without the description looks not too convincing for a newcomer checking out

tbf I don't think we'd get much out of this anyway since that level of power is stated to come one day in the future when it's strong enough not something it was currently capable of while being wielded by Necrid.

Yeah im aware, but in case Necrid isnt near the level of powers of those like Nightmare, Siegfried, etc, could be a good supporting evidence for the highest levels, much like how Jon Talbain in Darkstalkers claims he will reach light speed one day, but stronger characters scale to that, meanwhile other character even stronger have far better stuff, showing a consistent power scaling between characters

 

[Dust_Collector]

I actually lowkey vibe with 3) the most and I think I have an idea of where we could put them

Yo give the deets, I know there's a whole bunch of tier 7 to tier 6 stuff but wasn't sure if the calcs we have are still good to use.

 

[Hellbeast]

For a start there's this and we have statements from SCIV that the battle between the Swords in III shook the world iirc. I also recall some crosscaling between timelines which means you could argue they scale to Azwel's ultimate attack being able to destroy a country. I'll see if I can collect some stuff later

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Iirc SC4 had Nightmare ending with him burning the world, also something in SC6 had Zasalamel say another seed was gonna deatroy the planet

Soul Edge and Soul Calibur should scale from the 2nd option, they have far more on that going

 

[Dust_Collector]

What was the general consensus on scaling between Sc6 and the previous games again? From what I found there didn't seem to be any general agreement on that and seems to currently be a weird mix of accepted in terms of powers and Abilities from the original timeline scaling to SC6 but AP isn't scaled between them.

 

[BlackDarkness679]

SC6 Cassandra fights her malfested version whom originates from the original timeline, thus making the cast of SC6 comparable to their original selves

 

[Ikelaggan]

Also Soul Calibur being universal while still being stuck at single digit mach speeds would be funny as hell

Probably the only laser in verse and it's unfortunately not from 2B

 

[BlackDarkness679]

Probably the only laser in verse and it's unfortunately not from 2B

Needs to be proven to be a laser or light

There is also in SC Legends which SC6 made canon at this point a beam fired at you

 

[Dust_Collector]

bump

 

[BlackDarkness679]

You had like one staff agreeing, so get more