Sora and Riku (Kingdom Hearts) Vs Sans and Papyrus (Undertale)

[Benpage11]

sans and papyrus

I'm bored so why not.
Both are bloodlusted.

Area = Keyblade Graveyard

sora and riku

 

[Squid_peanut]

well, papyrus will be pretty much useless since he is way below the others, meanwhile sans should be able to do something against sora and riku since they are both technically responsible for people's deaths both against villians and possibly against emblem heartless and nobodies so if that ends up being the case sans bone zones them

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Papyrus is more than an entire numerical tier below his opponents, so he's useless here.

Sans' KR likely doesn't activate due to the fact that neither of his opponents are horrible murderers.

Stomp.

 

[ThePerpetual]

Don't Sans and Papyrus have some degree of soul hax, or are Sora and Riku immune to that entirely, or... what?

 

[Squid_peanut]

Don't Sans and Papyrus have some degree of soul hax, or are Sora and Riku immune to that entirely, or... what?

it just wouldn't do much, papyrus is completely outclassed iin stats and sans can't hurt them

 

[Benpage11]

it just wouldn't do much, papyrus is completely outclassed iin stats and sans can't hurt them

Sans would be able to hurt Sora and Riku sense they are both technically people's deaths both against villians and if the heartless and nobody's count for the KR meter then it's going to hurt for both of them. The only way I can see them getting sans is the stop spell and that's really it. (Maybe the final form can step up to sans)

 

[Benpage11]

Papyrus is more than an entire numerical tier below his opponents, so he's useless here.

Sans' KR likely doesn't activate due to the fact that neither of his opponents are horrible murderers.

Stomp.

Don't heartless and nobody's count?

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Don't heartless and nobody's count?

Nobody's probably do. I...doubt Heartless do.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Heartless and Nobodies technically aren't real people, and don't have conscious minds (Especially with Heartless being purely driven by instinct to collect hearts, very akin to wild animals, and Nobodies generally just following orders from their superiors, sort of like nameless mooks whose only purpose is to serve the villain). It's very different from Chara hunting down every last being in the Underground for the sole purpose of killing them.

Sora and Riku have never killed a single innocent person, everyone they've ever killed has been dangerous villains trying to conquer the worlds and obtain Kingdom Hearts. And I seriously doubt that KR would accumulate when the only people the person has killed were either evil or mindless beasts.

 

[Little_Jackie_Papercut]

Heartless and Nobodies technically aren't real people, and don't have conscious minds (Especially with Heartless being purely driven by instinct to collect hearts, very akin to wild animals, and Nobodies generally just following orders from their superiors, sort of like nameless mooks whose only purpose is to serve the villain). It's very different from Chara hunting down every last being in the Underground for the sole purpose of killing them.
Sora and Riku have never killed a single innocent person, everyone they've ever killed has been dangerous villains trying to conquer the worlds and obtain Kingdom Hearts. And I seriously doubt that KR would accumulate when the only people the person has killed were either evil or mindless beasts.

This has been brought up repeatedly, Undertale seems to advocate that no matter how evil someone is you shouldn't kill them and therefore evil beings probably do count for KR. Moldsmals are also mindless beasts, and they seem to count.

However, Heartless are more like undead or constructs. Nobodies are the embodiment of nonexistence itself, It's dubious whether you could even be said to have actually killed anything at all for vanquishing one, especially since destroying them apparently also serves to bring back the real person whose death created them..If anything, that would be, like... negative KR for each member of Organization XIII. I believe KR would only count up the enemies who were actually alive when you killed them. So, er... let's see... as far as I can tell, that brings Sora and Riku to... one kill each? Clayton's death was Sora's fault, and I think Riku technically killed Maleficent.

 

[Benpage11]

I think Sora and Riku might win this one with papyrus losing easily and sans being stop by the stopga . (a stop spell sora and Riku has)

 

[The_Everlasting]

@Little Jackie Papercut

Yeah, Heartless are just darkness given form (Meaning that vanquishing them is technically just dispersing darkness, and freeing the heart if it's an Emblem Heartless), and Nobodies are literally made out of nothingness (Making it destroying something that doesn't technically exist). They technically aren't living beings.

Sora's total kill count amounts to either six or seven (Jafar, Maleficent, Shan Yu, Clayton, Scar and Ursula, can't recall if he killed Oogie Boogie the first time, though Donald technically killed him in KHII), while Riku's kill count remains at dead 0 (1 if you count him causing Maleficent to fight Sora and thus die), so KR is going to do incredibly little, if anything at all.

Plus, there's the fact that Sora and Riku possess time and gravity hax (Plus unlimited healing), and have a large speed advantage.

 

[Benpage11]

@Little Jackie Papercut

Yeah, Heartless are just darkness given form (Meaning that vanquishing them is technically just dispersing darkness, and freeing the heart if it's an Emblem Heartless), and Nobodies are literally made out of nothingness (Making it destroying something that doesn't technically exist). They technically aren't living beings.

Sora's total kill count amounts to either six or seven (Jafar, Maleficent, Shan Yu, Clayton, Scar and Ursula, can't recall if he killed Oogie Boogie the first time, though Donald technically killed him in KHII), while Riku's kill count remains at dead 0 (1 if you count him causing Maleficent to fight Sora and thus die), so KR is going to do incredibly little, if anything at all.

Plus, there's the fact that Sora and Riku possess time and gravity hax (Plus unlimited healing), and have a large speed advantage.

I guess the win belongs to Sora and Riku. Should we add it to the page or wait a little

 

[ThePerpetual]

Yeah, probably going to have to vote for Sora and Riku as well. Papyrus will get blitzed regardless, and, though Sans's full speed is unknown and he can break the game and such, he doesn't have a proper counter for Stopga, I don't think. Even if he does, though, he'll eventually tire out and the two will still be alive and kicking.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Same. Going with Sora and Riku due to them having much higher AP, speed, and durability compared to Papyrus + having hax that may trump some if not most of Sans. Not to mention that KR would do little, if any, to Sora and Riku.

 

[Pokémon_Trainer_Jacob]

Gotta go with Papyrus and Sans only because Sans is broken.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Gotta go with Papyrus and Sans only because Sans is broken.

So ignoring the fact that Sans is at a massive speed disadvantage and his main source of damage is going to do barely anything?

 

[Pokémon_Trainer_Jacob]

Hmmm. Good point. But we must remember that Sans did beat a Multiversal being a bunch of times.

 

[The_Everlasting]

He did that by avoiding their attacks and damaging them with KR, neither of which will work on Sora and Riku.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

That is correct of what Everlasting said. Yes it is true that Sans did beat a multiversal being like Chara but that was only because of him avoding their attacks plus because of the way his hax works.

Thing here is that Sora and Riku won't be affected very much by Sans KR and his reactions are very low compared to their speed.....

 

[Pokémon_Trainer_Jacob]

Okay then, Sora and Riku take this.

 

[Pokémon_Trainer_Jacob]

Does that mean Goku would beat Sans considering that he's pure of heart and only killed 5 people in his lifetime (I'm pretty sure it was 5, correct me if I'm wrong).

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Well the thing about Sans KR hax is that it would depend how many sins the person has commited....but since everyone likes to say kills (well that is a sin IRL too but yeah....), we'll say that.

Goku could beat Sans, i guess. That and he doesn't like to kill people unless he has no choice (like what happened when he had to kill Frieza after their fight on Namek. Though Frieza didn't die, i know that...)......

 

[Pokémon_Trainer_Jacob]

Yeah the only time Goku killed a person without having to was Yakon.

 

[Little_Jackie_Papercut]

Well the thing about Sans KR hax is that it would depend how many sins the person has commited....but since everyone likes to say kills (well that is a sin IRL too but yeah....), we'll say that.

Does KR do more damage if you take all the candy from the bowl?

People keep making these big assumptions about what KR actually is when none of them have any observable basis... literally there's nothing I've even seen in the game that implies that it wouldn't work against a pacifist.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Well the thing about Sans KR hax is that it would depend how many sins the person has commited....but since everyone likes to say kills (well that is a sin IRL too but yeah....), we'll say that.

Does KR do more damage if you take all the candy from the bowl?
People keep making these big assumptions about what KR actually is when none of them have any observable basis... literally there's nothing I've even seen in the game that implies that it wouldn't work against a pacifist.

I don't know. You have to ask someone like Azathoth since he played all of the routes of the game. I don't think taking all of the candy counts? Yeah, i just don't know....

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

Does KR do more damage if you take all the candy from the bowl?

People keep making these big assumptions about what KR actually is when none of them have any observable basis... literally there's nothing I've even seen in the game that implies that it wouldn't work against a pacifist.

lol What? The only thing set in stone is it badly hurts people who have killed others, as in the context of the verse, killing is always considered the "wrong" or "sinful" answer. It doesn't activate for some stupid crap like stealing candy from a baby or pushing an old lady into a puddle.

I feel like it being able to murder a cosmic PACIFIST for the same reason it could kill Chara wouldn't really make sense.

 

[Little_Jackie_Papercut]

Does KR do more damage if you take all the candy from the bowl?

People keep making these big assumptions about what KR actually is when none of them have any observable basis... literally there's nothing I've even seen in the game that implies that it wouldn't work against a pacifist.

lol What? The only thing set in stone is it badly hurts people who have killed others, as in the context of the verse, killing is always considered the "wrong" or "sinful" answer. It doesn't activate for some stupid crap like stealing candy from a baby or pushing an old lady into a puddle.
I feel like it being able to murder a cosmic PACIFIST for the same reason it could kill Chara wouldn't really make sense.

This is exactly what I'm talking about, though. There is no demonstration of how it works, nor confirmation that the "reason" it could kill Chara was anything other than "magic attacks hurt". Do you have any basis for any of those statements other than the name of the attack?

 

[Kyo_Zero]

Where has this mentality that Sans can't hurt people without KR come from? Doesn't he still have telekinesis, soul manipulation, bone manipulation and all that jazz? I don't think Sora and Riku have any form of resistance to soul attacks, so there's no saying Sans is incapable of fighting back.

 

[Azathoth_the_Abyssal_Idiot]

This is exactly what I'm talking about, though. There is no demonstration of how it works, nor confirmation that the "reason" it could kill Chara was anything other than "magic attacks hurt". Do you have any basis for any of those statements other than the name of the attack?

Name of the attack, Sans' time for attacking, in battle text and dialogue, and the game's entire overarching message.

 

[The_Everlasting]

Where has this mentality that Sans can't hurt people without KR come from? Doesn't he still have telekinesis, soul manipulation, bone manipulation and all that jazz? I don't think Sora and Riku have any form of resistance to soul attacks, so there's no saying Sans is incapable of fighting back.

The problem is that Sans' main method of attacking is now entirely useless since Sora and Riku aren't violent murderers.

Plus, this is rather offset by their speed advantage and time hax.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

Where has this mentality that Sans can't hurt people without KR come from? Doesn't he still have telekinesis, soul manipulation, bone manipulation and all that jazz? I don't think Sora and Riku have any form of resistance to soul attacks, so there's no saying Sans is incapable of fighting back.

The problem is that Sans' main method of attacking is now entirely useless since Sora and Riku aren't violent murderers.
Plus, this is rather offset by their speed advantage and time hax.

This. Riku and Sora aren't complete, violent murderers like Chara was.

And even if Sans other hax could affect Sora and Riku, he's too slow to catch them with it. FTL+>Relativistic+

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

Sora and Riku dunk on the Skelebros due to superior hax and speed.

 

[Little_Jackie_Papercut]

This is exactly what I'm talking about, though. There is no demonstration of how it works, nor confirmation that the "reason" it could kill Chara was anything other than "magic attacks hurt". Do you have any basis for any of those statements other than the name of the attack?

Name of the attack, Sans' time for attacking, in battle text and dialogue, and the game's entire overarching message.

The name of the attack doesn't necessarily mean anything. You can call your attacks whatever you want. Asriel calls his sword attack "Chaos Saber" even though it's not particularly chaotic.

Sans's "time for attacking" has nothing to do with when he can hurt you. He pretty much explicitly didn't want to fight until it became absolutely necessary for a variety of reasons; the promise he made to Toriel, laziness, awareness of his own mortality, etcetera.

What "in battle text and dialogue"? Be more specific, if I knew what you meant by that I wouldn't be asking in the first place.

The game's overarching message is a good argument for determining which kills count, but only as long as it's accepted that "murderer" status matters at all, which is what I'm questioning here. Undyne is the only other enemy in the game who becomes stronger in response to you killing everything, and that's because of her tapping into her Determination in response to the greater threat. So if that's supposed to be a consistent theme, it actually implies that KR is not affected by your sins, only by Sans's willingness to use it.

 

[Ddcbryant]

Just wait till Kingdom Hearts 3 come out to see their true power.

 

[Pokémon_Trainer_Jacob]

I have a way in which Sans and Payrus could actually win this fight, but it's very unlikely. Sans uses his special attack where he never ends his turn, because Sora and Riku will then not be able to attack, Papyrus will continue to constantly attack them until they are dead/knocked out.

 

[Pokémon_Trainer_Jacob]

But Sora and Riku body them in any other situation.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

I have a way in which Sans and Payrus could actually win this fight, but it's very unlikely. Sans uses his special attack where he never ends his turn, because Sora and Riku will then not be able to attack, Papyrus will continue to constantly attack them until they are dead/knocked out.

That's very unlikely. The Papyrus part, i mean. Sora n Riku are Large Planet level in all stats, Papyrus being only Large Island level. There's no way he's going to leave a dent on them due to the very difference in their physical capabilities. Even if Sans could actually trap in an "endless turn", he's going to evntually get tired and fall asleep (albeit it'll be a bit longer if he only does this but i think he might get bored of doing it and fall asleep anyways), which once that happens Sora and Riku MAY somehow do something if this happens.

Regardless, i'm closing this. The op said they were bloodlusted and pretty sure this turns into a stomp....