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Just to be clear, I see that some of the wincons that are being brought up in favor of Asta are connected to speed boost that would make him faster than Sonic, but this is not an accepted wincon if the one that gets the speed boost is normally slower than the opponent.
In this case, Super Sonic is MFTL+, while Asta is FTL. In a normal fight, Sonic would speed blitz heavily, and speed equalization is made to make the match equilibrated. It wouldn't really be fair if the slower character won a fight for a speed boost only because the faster one was slowed down to make the fight fair, wouldn't it? So, to put it simple, speed boost is not a factor in Asta's favor.

Regarding the Asta's heat resistence, I don't understand why it would scale to someone else's resistence without solid reasoning, and if he does scale to him why it's not mentioned in any way in his profile, but whatever.

And for the Chaos Energy, as already explained by others, it's a biological energy generate by Sonic's body. Its not like Chakra or anything like that, it has nothing magical or supernatural, so to equalize that to Magic would make little to no sense. And if Chaos Energy is not nulled, Asta will just explode the moment he attacks Sonic.

And all of this without taking into consideration BFR or Sonic's Statistics Amplification.

Overall, my vote stays with Sonic.
 
Bro saw one speed amp from me and claimed there were some of the wincons being discussed.
 
Bro saw one speed amp from me and claimed there were some of the wincons being discussed.
First of all, don't be rude. We are debating who is stronger between a hedgehog and a kid, there is no reason to be rude.
And second, both your wincons includes speed boosts as part of them.

Wincon 1 with Black Meteorite or Black Bull Thrust. with either of these abilities, Asta will home in on Sonic at high speeds. As soon as Asta smashes into or thrust through Sonic. Sonic will not be able to use his chaos abilities and the thrust will deal a lethal damage due to Asta's AP advantage and piercing damage. With a homing attack such as this and the speed advantage with Black Mode, Sonic wouldn't be able to evade.
Wincon 2 (actually more than one wincon in this but it all sums up to skill): With the ability to throw off senses with his moves, and react instinctively while also being able to predict Sonic's moves by reading his life force, Asta should pretty much out-skill Sonic. Asta's AP advantage in black form and his accelerated development and reactive power level that helps him find a way around tough situations is also a factor in this as well. Let's not forget about Asta's ability to copy move sets. Asta's speed in Black mode is at least 2x faster than base because he scales to Yuno's Spirit Dive who is also at least 2x faster with spirit dive. A good old fashion beating should take the win.

Considering that speed is not a factor in favor of Asta, Sonic wont have problems evading him, especially considering Sonic's Statistics Amplification which will charge him with more energy and make him faster.
The other factors in your two wincons are not that notable taking this and all of Sonic's abilities into consideration.
 
Just to be clear, I see that some of the wincons that are being brought up in favor of Asta are connected to speed boost that would make him faster than Sonic, but this is not an accepted wincon if the one that gets the speed boost is normally slower than the opponent.
In this case, Super Sonic is MFTL+, while Asta is FTL. In a normal fight, Sonic would speed blitz heavily, and speed equalization is made to make the match equilibrated. It wouldn't really be fair if the slower character won a fight for a speed boost only because the faster one was slowed down to make the fight fair, wouldn't it? So, to put it simple, speed boost is not a factor in Asta's favor.

Never said it was.

The boost serves to help Asta out-skill Sonic. Y'know... the skills you failed to address.


And for the Chaos Energy, as already explained by others, it's a biological energy generate by Sonic's body. Its not like Chakra or anything like that, it has nothing magical or supernatural, so to equalize that to Magic would make little to no sense. And if Chaos Energy is not nulled, Asta will just explode the moment he attacks Sonic.

So why does he talk and manipulate reality if Chaos Energy isn't supernatural?

First of all, don't be rude. We are debating who is stronger between a hedgehog and a kid, there is no reason to be rude.
And second, both your wincons includes speed boosts as part of them.

lol

You do realize, they are just additional points. Why are you treating them like main points and What happened to everything else?

Considering that speed is not a factor in favor of Asta, Sonic wont have problems evading him, especially considering Sonic's Statistics Amplification which will charge him with more energy and make him faster.
The other factors in your two wincons are not that notable taking this and all of Sonic's abilities into consideration.

How aren't they not notable?

You can't just claim they aren't lol.
 
The rule is that you can´t speed blitz, not that you can´t literally be 2 times faster which is perfectly reasonable to adapt and dodge

If we were using Luck, he would be like 40 times faster or more, that would be completely unviable, Asta being 2 times faster is not against the rules

As a result, winning a speed equalized match against a faster opponent due to a speed boost so large that it blitzes the opponent will not be added.

^The rule in question
 
Never said it was.

The boost serves to help Asta out-skill Sonic. Y'know... the skills you failed to address.
I never addressed them because they are good points, Asta is more skilled. But if all his attacks are short ranged this wont stop him from just exploding.

So why does he talk and manipulate reality if Chaos Energy isn't supernatural?
He never manipulated reality, thought? As you said previously, Subjective Manipulation was never actually used but only stated, so there is not evidences of reality warping by Sonic.
And anyways, that wouldn't even be done with Chaos Energy, but with the Chaos Emeralds, which are to separate things.
And even then, things like the BFR are not based on Chaos Energy but is done with the Rings, which are advanced technologicy.

You do realize, they are just additional points. Why are you treating them like main points and What happened to everything else?
I didn't talk about the other points simply because you are right about them. All of that is simply not enough considering that Asta will explode if he tries to attack Sonic.

The rule is that you can´t speed blitz, not that you can´t literally be 2 times faster which is perfectly reasonable to adapt and dodge

If we were using Luck, he would be like 40 times faster or more, that would be completely unviable, Asta being 2 times faster is not against the rules

As a result, winning a speed equalized match against a faster opponent due to a speed boost so large that it blitzes the opponent will not be added.

^The rule in question
Ok, thanks for the explanation. I don't think it's really that much fair considering the speed difference, but if the rules are that than it's fine.
But even then, speed wont be that much of a factor in this match, considering Sonic's Statistics Amplification which makes him faster the more he charge up.
 
Ok, thanks for the explanation. I don't think it's really that much fair considering the speed difference, but if the rules are that than it's fine.
But even then, speed wont be that much of a factor in this match, considering Sonic's Statistics Amplification which makes him faster the more he charge up

Sometimes skill, stat amp and long range battles are enough to overcome or reduce a 2x gap. But keep in mind that counters can be countered. Well it’s just a situational thing.

How does he charge up? Doesn’t he need a source?

And is his Explosion Manipulation hax or AP based? Because I’m seeing it as justification in his AP section.

What are the Chaos emeralds in the movie?
 
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Sometimes skill, stat amp and long range battles are enough to overcome or reduce a 2x gap. But keep in mind that counters can be countered. Well it’s just a situational thing.

How does he charge up? Doesn’t he need a source?

And is his Explosion Manipulation hax or AP based? Because I’m seeing it as justification in his AP section.

What are the Chaos emeralds in the movie?
4-B Black Clover when
 
Sometimes skill, stat amp and long range battles are enough to overcome or reduce a 2x gap. But keep in mind that counters can be countered. Well it’s just a situational thing.

How does he charge up? Doesn’t he need a source?

And is his Explosion Manipulation hax or AP based? Because I’m seeing it as justification in his AP section.

What are the Chaos emeralds in the movie?
Sorry, I realized that the information I gave were a little vague, so now that I have a bit of time I will give a better explanation about Sonic's statistics. This obviously contains spoiler for the movies.

First of all, the AP. The 30 gigatons feat was performed by a single charged quill of Sonic, which was used to amplify the Eggpod, so the scaling would be:
One charged quill = Eggpod <<< Fully Charged Sonic (effortlessly stomped the Eggpod) <<< The Death Egg Robot (superior to Sonic, Tails and Knuckles combined) <<< Super Sonic (stomped the Death Egg Robot almost without even moving).
So he stomps someone that stomped his base form, which stomped something powered by what perfomed the 30 gigatons feat. This is not that much important overall, this gives Super Sonic a good AP advantage against Base Asta, but given that there is no clear multiplier Black Asta is still superior in AP, but not as much as it would have if Sonic simply scaled to 30 gigatons.

Speed wise, him charging up is not only connected to his electricity absortion, but to other factors. His speed increases over time by using his own lightings, and surges of emotions gives him a huge boost in speed, to the point of going from being equal to Knuckles in speed to being so fast that he couldn't even react properly.

His Explosion Manipulation is hax based, and is something that he have no control over. Everything that hits him or touches him with too much pressure simply explodes. The moment that Eggman tried to apply more pressure to it's punch after Super Sonic blocked it, the arm of the Death Egg Robot exploded, and when he tried to punch him again with the other arm said arm exploded the moment it touched him. He even states that if Tom, his best friend, touched him he would explode, so it's not something that he can deactivate.

There are other factors that I hadn't time to mention or that I don't think have much of an impact on the match, like the fact that Super Sonic have an higher Lifting Strenght, which he usually uses to block and grab the opponent's attacks, or that he also have a homing attack which he uses to change direction of his Spin Attack and give multiple attacks to the opponent, but considering that both Black Asta and Super Sonic can fly this last thing would not be that important.

Regarding your last question, the Chaos Emeralds are ancient relics that gives their holder an incredible power and are said to be able to make thoughts into reality, but the full extent of their power is unknown. Sonic absorbs this objects inside himself during the final battle against the Death Egg Robot, and he uses them to access the Super Sonic form, so in this key he already have them inside himself. For what was shown until now, Sonic just uses them to give himself a huge boost.
 
If the explosion manipulation is haxed based and given the description it looks like Super Sonic is a stomp.

So what about Base Sonic?
 
If the explosion manipulation is haxed based and given the description it looks like Super Sonic is a stomp.

So what about Base Sonic?
As I said before, his AP comes from stomping something powered by one of his quill, which performed the 30 gigatons feat. So definitely not as high as Super Sonic, but still decently higher than 30 gigatons.
In this form too his speed increases over time thanks to his lightings, and both his AP and his speed receive massive boost with surges of emotions, as explained before going from being comparable do Knuckle to being much faster than him.
However, here he doesn't have his Explosion Manipulation, and in general his fighting style changes a lot.
In base, he mainly fight with Spin Attacks, thanks to which he gives a barrage of attacks against the opponents by changing direction in mid-air, basically similiarly to an homing attack. He also uses his lightings, which are comparable if not superior to him in AP and are really hot.
But while in his Super Form he is willing to kill without many problems and is much more efficient, in his normal form usually doens't want to kill his opponent and is a bit more reckless. So, if he sees that he can't put down Asta, he will most likely try to use his Rings to BFR him to another planet, like he did with Eggman at the end of the first movie.
I don't have much of an opinion regarding who wins between Asta and Base Sonic, because here I think they both have good wincons so I will just wait.
 
As I said before, his AP comes from stomping something powered by one of his quill, which performed the 30 gigatons feat. So definitely not as high as Super Sonic, but still decently higher than 30 gigatons.
In this form too his speed increases over time thanks to his lightings, and both his AP and his speed receive massive boost with surges of emotions, as explained before going from being comparable do Knuckle to being much faster than him.
However, here he doesn't have his Explosion Manipulation, and in general his fighting style changes a lot.
In base, he mainly fight with Spin Attacks, thanks to which he gives a barrage of attacks against the opponents by changing direction in mid-air, basically similiarly to an homing attack. He also uses his lightings, which are comparable if not superior to him in AP and are really hot.
But while in his Super Form he is willing to kill without many problems and is much more efficient, in his normal form usually doens't want to kill his opponent and is a bit more reckless. So, if he sees that he can't put down Asta, he will most likely try to use his Rings to BFR him to another planet, like he did with Eggman at the end of the first movie.
I don't have much of an opinion regarding who wins between Asta and Base Sonic, because here I think they both have good wincons so I will just wait.

We have already dropped arguments.

So here are my final thoughts before voting begins.

With the ability to predict Sonics' moves by reading his life force and act accordingly, his own skill and the skills gathered from various swordsmen up to this point (instinctive reaction, messing up senses, damage reduction, etc.) and the ability to adapt to situations and develop those techniques on the spot during combat, accelerated development as a factor to consider to cover the gap in strength, Asta should be able to evade Sonic's attacks fairly easily and out-skill him regardless of Sonic's statistic amplification.

If Asta is faced with any trouble he can just go straight to Black Mode and look to end the fight quickly with his AP advantage and a 2x speed boost to perform all his skills faster. Asta looks to end fights extremely fast in that form.

So I vote Asta for these reasons.

I disagree with Sonic's energy or lightning always on that level of heat. He has ran on sand and even caused a cyclone before. So it's more of a probability thing. If the sand feat happened less often than not then I don't see it happening in this match. If it does happen before Asta goes to Black Mode, Sonic could win. BFR is also a valid wincon for Sonic if he finds it hard to keep up with Asta.

So I don't mind if you or anyone votes for Sonic.

But I believe Asta is more likely to win in most scenarios. Any other thoughts or counter arguments?
 
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In general, I agree. The boost given by the emotional surges and the increase in statistics will give many problem to base Asta, but if he goes Black Asta he will in turn have many boost that will give him the advantage.
I think that Base Sonic wins against Base Asta, but loses against Black Asta. If Sonic is able to BFR him before he can use that form, than he wins, otherwise he lose. However, I believe that the skill advantage should give Asta a good opportunity to survive for long enough to understand that he needs to go Black Asta to win.
Overall, I think both have many possible wincons, but Asta should have more chances of winning. While waiting for further arguments, if there are any, I am neutral but more leaning towards Asta.
 
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