Sonic the Hedgehog Film Series Discussion Thread

[LaserPrecision]

While I do agree they’re mostly comparable, I wouldn’t say there’s no point where Shadow is portrayed as superior. As the fight starts, he casually halts Sonic’s punch and pushes it away despite Sonic visibly struggling against him,

I think it’s more than fair to say Shadow is comparable, but still somewhat stronger than Sonic.

They have back and fourths. Sonic also has instances where he "looks stronger" (In fact, he has more than Super Shadow). Such as when he easily stops Shadow's punch and proceeds to knock him away. Sonic drags Shadow, and Shadow is unable to escape his grip without Sonic tossing him away. But Sonic can escape Super Shadow's grip with ease. Shadow is unable to block Super Sonic's strikes or land a punch on him near the end of their fight, and resorts to teleporting behind Sonic who loses track of him before attacking him to land an attack.

There's "good moments" for both. I'm pretty dead-set on the two being equal though. I think arguing Shadow is stronger because he has highlights, in a fight where both have highlights because they're equal, is dishonest.

 

[Dalesean027]

Looks good, although if we’re giving them higher ratings with Empowerment, wouldn’t Shadow charging the Eclipse Cannon scale to that rather than his base statistics?

not sure I fully get what you're meaning exactly, could you elaborate more

 

[LordTracer]

They have back and fourths. Sonic also has instances where he "looks stronger" (In fact, he has more than Super Shadow). Such as when he easily stops Shadow's punch and proceeds to knock him away. Sonic drags Shadow, and Shadow is unable to escape his grip without Sonic tossing him away. But Sonic can escape Super Shadow's grip with ease. Shadow is unable to block Super Sonic's strikes or land a punch on him near the end of their fight, and resorts to teleporting behind Sonic who loses track of him before attacking him to land an attack.

There's "good moments" for both. I'm pretty dead-set on the two being equal though. I think arguing Shadow is stronger because he has highlights, in a fight where both have highlights because they're equal, is dishonest.

I don’t entirely agree with some of the moments you’ve brought up, but I really don’t care enough to argue. Like I said, I agree that they’re mostly comparable.

not sure I fully get what you're meaning exactly, could you elaborate more

When Shadow charged the Eclipse Cannon, he was clearly in an enraged and emotionally charged state since he flashbacked to Maria’s death right before. If we’re saying he’s stronger when empowered by his emotions, then his feat of charging the cannon would apply to that, not his base.

 

[LaserPrecision]

I don’t entirely agree with some of the moments you’ve brought up, but I really don’t care enough to argue. Like I said, I agree that they’re mostly comparable.

That's fine. I'm of the alignment that they're entirely equal (Emotional amps excluded) physically. Just that Shadow is the more versatile fighter (Due to Chaos Control *****). I think everything we saw in the fight is smth we could see from two physically equal fighters (But uh, obviously less crazy planet shattering stuff)

 

[Dalesean027]

I don’t entirely agree with some of the moments you’ve brought up, but I really don’t care enough to argue. Like I said, I agree that they’re mostly comparable.

When Shadow charged the Eclipse Cannon, he was clearly in an enraged and emotionally charged state since he flashbacked to Maria’s death right before. If we’re saying he’s stronger when empowered by his emotions, then his feat of charging the cannon would apply to that, not his base.

ah that must be some new stuff then, I didn't know it was decided he was amped there or that he's getting emotion amps so I can't speak on it although if that's the case he'd need a varies rating and no one would scale then. I personally don't agree with him being amped though I didn't even know we were going that route

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

I don’t entirely agree with some of the moments you’ve brought up, but I really don’t care enough to argue. Like I said, I agree that they’re mostly comparable.

This. The profile isn't meant to convey that Super Shadow is overwhelmingly superior to Super Sonic. It's just indexed based on the fact that he easily stops his punch, while Sonic visibly struggles; knocks him down; leaves him staggering; and even persists against the Eclipse Cannon whereas Super Sonic couldn't

When Shadow charged the Eclipse Cannon, he was clearly in an enraged and emotionally charged state since he flashbacked to Maria’s death right before. If we’re saying he’s stronger when empowered by his emotions, then his feat of charging the cannon would apply to that, not his base.

This can be dealt with

 

[LaserPrecision]

Right. The profile isn't meant to convey that Super Shadow is overwhelmingly superior to Super Sonic. It's just indexed based on the fact that he knocks him down and leaves him reeling in pain, and even persists against the Eclipse Cannon whereas Super Sonic couldn't

My complaint is that he shouldn't be depicted as superior (physically) to Sonic at all. When it comes to AP/SS, they should be depicted as being equal to one another, using their fight as a demonstration of their back and fourths. Tho I do think he should have superior stamina via the Eclipse Cannon scene.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Yeah, they can go back and forth cuz they're ultimately comparable, but the fight still shows Shadow having slightly greater strength

 

[LaserPrecision]

Yeah, they can go back and forth cuz they're ultimately comparable, but the fight still shows Shadow having a slightly greater strength

That I disagree with. I gave examples that made it seem as though Sonic had the strength advantage. They both had highlights. They should be equal in strength. Shadow should not be slightly stronger. I vehemently disagree with that notion.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

That I disagree with. I gave examples that made it seem as though Sonic had the strength advantage. They both had highlights. They should be equal in strength. Shadow should not be slightly stronger. I vehemently disagree with that notion.

Sonic being able to overtake Shadow with a flying charge is not the same as Shadow easily stopping Sonic's charge and holding his punch while the latter is struggling, nor is it the same as Sonic constantly being the one staggering in pain after receiving some gnarly hits

 

[LaserPrecision]

Sonic being able to overtake Shadow with a flying charge is not the same as Shadow easily stopping and holding his punch while Sonic is struggling, nor is it the same as Sonic constantly being the one staggering in pain after receiving some gnarly hits

Sonic restraining Shadow, and Shadow being unable to escape from his grip despite desperate attacks on Sonic is indeed the same as Sonic escaping Shadow's grip with a single kick despite Shadow also having a big charge on him. Shadow being barraged, and having his guard pummeled through so badly he had to resort to teleporting behind Sonic to land a sneak attack is also quite a good showing. Sonic stopping Shadow's punch with ease shows the two are equal. Just because Shadow was composed and stopped a punch from Super Sonic is not indicative of anything.

If Shadow were stronger, they wouldn't have several equal clashes, and Shadow wouldn't have had his fist stopped so easily, nor would he have struggled to escape Sonic's grip for a prolonged period of time.

It's just back and fourth, and Sonic taking more seriously after the beginning of the fight, where even Base Shadow was able to do something to Super Sonic.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

Sonic restraining Shadow, and Shadow being unable to escape from his grip despite desperate attacks on Sonic is indeed the same as Sonic escaping Shadow's grip with a single kick despite Shadow also having a big charge on him. Shadow being barraged, and having his guard pummeled through so badly he had to resort to teleporting behind Sonic to land a sneak attack is also quite a good showing. Sonic stopping Shadow's punch with ease shows the two are equal. Just because Shadow was composed and stopped a punch from Super Sonic is not indicative of anything.

If Shadow were stronger, they wouldn't have several equal clashes, and Shadow wouldn't have had his fist stopped so easily, nor would he have struggled to escape Sonic's grip for a prolonged period of time.

It's just back and fourth, and Sonic taking more seriously after the beginning of the fight, where even Base Shadow was able to do something to Super Sonic.

You keep mentioning Sonic catching Shadow's punch as if Shadow put in the same amount of force into that attack as Sonic literally flying at him. No, he just throws a right, and Sonic catches it, because they're ultimately comparable. And besides, given how Chaos Energy works, I can see the explanation that Shadow has a higher threshold for damage boost and whatnot with how twice he could stagger Sonic the way he did

Honestly, I don't feel the need to argue this further because the profiles will ultimately convey that they're comparable

 

[LaserPrecision]

You keep mentioning Sonic catching Shadow's punch as if Shadow put in the same amount of force into it as Sonic literally flying at him. No, he just throws a right, and Sonic catches it, because they're ultimately comparable. And besides, given how Chaos Energy works, I can see the explanation that Shadow has a higher threshold for damage boost and whatnot with how twice he could stagger Sonic the way he did

I would argue he did put just as much force into it. Because at that point, Sonic was underestimating Shadow. Again, Base Shadow broke free of his grip. Unless we're scaling Base Shadow to Super Sonic, this shouldn't be an argument. Also, this point is irrelevant. It doesn't matter if Shadow put more force into the blow than Sonic did his. Because Sonic still effortlessly stopped his punch. You also ignored every other instance in that fight I mentioned that shouldn't have occurred if Shadow was supposedly the stronger one. Sonic and Shadow literally have a completely even punch clash. If Shadow were stronger, an equal punch clash isn't happening. That much is obvious. It should be noted the only times Sonic was staggered was when he was taken off guard (By Base Shadow, at the beginning of the fight when Sonic recklessly charged in thinking he could ragdoll Shadow, and when Shadow teleported behind Sonic because he couldn't land a single hit on Sonic, and Sonic was passing his guard with relentless strikes).

My opinion: Physically: S. Sonic = S. Shadow

Versatility: S. Sonic < S. Shadow

Better fighter: S. Sonic < S. Shadow

I think Shadow looked better in that fight for the latter two reasons. I disagree with Shadow having better damage boosts tho. Super Shadow staggered an off-guard Super Sonic. Super Sonic one-shot an off-guard Super Shadow.

 

[Sir_Marvulous]

I would argue he did put just as much force into it. Because at that point, Sonic was underestimating Shadow. Again, Base Shadow broke free of his grip. Unless we're scaling Base Shadow to Super Sonic, this shouldn't be an argument. Also, this point is irrelevant. It doesn't matter if Shadow put more force into the blow than Sonic did his. Because Sonic still effortlessly stopped his punch. You also ignored every other instance in that fight I mentioned that shouldn't have occurred if Shadow was supposedly the stronger one. Sonic and Shadow literally have a completely even punch clash. If Shadow were stronger, an equal punch clash isn't happening. That much is obvious. It should be noted the only times Sonic was staggered was when he was taken off guard (By Base Shadow, at the beginning of the fight when Sonic recklessly charged in thinking he could ragdoll Shadow, and when Shadow teleported behind Sonic because he couldn't land a single hit on Sonic, and Sonic was passing his guard with relentless strikes).

My opinion: Physically: S. Sonic = S. Shadow

Versatility: S. Sonic < S. Shadow

Better fighter: S. Sonic < S. Shadow

I think Shadow looked better in that fight for the latter two reasons. I disagree with Shadow having better damage boosts tho. Super Shadow staggered an off-guard Super Sonic. Super Sonic one-shot an off-guard Super Shadow.

I don't see what you're even trying to get at atp, and I'm of the mind that damage boost is at play here. And other than the moment with base Shadow, I don't exactly buy the off-guard notion for Super vs Super because it's not like we're dealing with ki here. And as for that last part, emotional empowerment

 

[LaserPrecision]

I don't see what you're even trying to get at atp, and I'm of the mind that damage boost is at play here. And other than the moment with base Shadow, I don't exactly buy the off-guard notion because it's not like we're dealing with ki here. And as for that last part, emotional empowerment

Just the notion that physically, as far as how hard they can hit, the two are equal. You physically aren't going to see what happened in that fight from people who are merely "relative". If you can buy the Base Shadow incident, then it would be logically consistent to say the same applies to Super fight. There's no reason it shouldn't. Because it comes off as choosing to ignore every other instance to fit a narrative (Not saying you are. I want to make that very clear. Just saying that is what it could look like. Just wanted to clarify in case that came off unnecessarily aggressive).

I figured the "damage boost" you were referring to was the emotional empowerment stuff. If you weren't, my mistake. What damage boost were you referring too?

 

[Theuser789]

Sonic and Shadow are equals, Shadow isn't stronger. Also the Eclipse Cannon wasn't am super amped Shadow. It's the same thing Sonic did in the first movie. He still scales.