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Sonic the Hedgehog Film Series Discussion Thread

LaserPrecision said:
I know you aren't going to argue against it, but I think there's not much wrong with it. Your calculation would suggest they scale to 37.5x the value of the cannon (individually). If they were that much above it, they would have been effortlessly holding it back with almost no discernable effort. Yet each second of the feat took considerable effort from the two even when working together. It'd be like scaling someone to 10x the value of a punch because they can hold back the force of a punch for 10 seconds even though it is hurting them and taking considerable effort.

It being an endurance feat makes sense because they are holding back against something comparable to them for prolonged time. If they were holding back 75 separate beams simultaneously, that'd be another thing. As the energy per second would be 75x the value. But that clearly ain't the case here.
Click to expand...
The punch analogy doesn’t work because you’re comparing thermal energy to kinetic energy. Holding back a punch stops it in its tracks, so the kinetic energy will diminish. Once you overcome the strike, you have to fight against the force of your opponent continually pushing back (which turns into a lifting strength feat).

With thermal energy, heat is constantly being outputted. It’s the same reason why water doesn’t immediately turn to vapor when it’s on the stove. Thermal energy feats rely heavily on energy over time, that’s why joules per second is a real life value.
 
Zamasu_Chan said:
The punch analogy doesn’t work because you’re comparing thermal energy to kinetic energy. Holding back a punch stops it in its tracks, so the kinetic energy will diminish. Once you overcome the strike, you have to fight against the force of your opponent continually pushing back (which turns into a lifting strength feat).

With thermal energy, heat is constantly being outputted. It’s the same reason why water doesn’t immediately turn to vapor when it’s on the stove. Thermal energy feats rely heavily on energy over time, that’s why joules per second is a real life value.
Click to expand...
The punch analogy point is fair. I typically say instead of a punch, imagine a constant force applied to you for an extended period of time equivalent to a strong punch.

As for the thermal energy bit, joules per second is a real life value, but the wiki only uses the energy a character can output in 1 second (or a single attack). Sonic and Shadow aren't able to output that much energy in a single attack (unless they build it up for 75 seconds ig), or in 1 second. So the wiki wouldn't index it as the AP stat. You'd just say "Base value, higher with Charging" and then clarify they can multiply the power by building it up.
 
Dalesean027 said:
Its just infinitely better if Shadow does just supply enough energy that it takes 10 minutes for it to charge the cannon with no extra problems on the cores part if that ends up not being viable then GGs tier 5 Base but that's just how it rolls for accuracy
Click to expand...
just rewatched it. though it might be easier to scale this way, it’s just not what happens in the film. he charges it up for an unknown amount of time then the scene cuts to when he’s done. then it says 10 minutes for the beam to get ready. his whole fight with sonic and the drones happens before that 10 minutes ends.

rewatching it, the timeframe is FAR less than 10 minutes, closer to 1 or 2 although i didn’t explicitly count. the problem is super sonic and super shadow struggle to stop the beam the moment they begin.

you can hear the strain in their voices when they have their conversation.

this means the only interpretation for this is that 1. the gap between super shadow and normal shadow is really small.

or

2. the machine amplifies shadows power.

not sure which one is more inline with what is actually happening.

i will say that base shadow has decent feats against pre rage amp super sonic like pushing him down to earth, being able to hit him before he can react, and also push the chaos emeralds out of him.

i also don’t think supersonic and super shadow combined should scale to beams “planet busting power”.

as we saw with the interaction with the moon, the beam isn’t emitting planet busting power per second, but rather the full yield of it at the end of its run would destroy the 25,000 mile radius stuff. sonic only withstands the beam for about a minute or 2 before he gets knocked out.

it’s then stated that the reactor core is overloading and the machine will blow up but there’s still chaos energy running through it meaning it didn’t even use all of shadows power.

if we go through the interpretation that shadow without his rings isn’t much weaker than super sonic pre rage amp the scaling is smth like this.

raged super sonic>inhibited super shadow> super sonic>= uninhibited shadow>>base shadow>base sonic
 
sageof8paths said:
rewatching it, the timeframe is FAR less than 10 minutes, closer to 1 or 2 although i didn’t explicitly count. the problem is super sonic and super shadow struggle to stop the beam the moment they begin.
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You wouldn't go by timeframe is the 10 minute end doesn't work btw, you'd have to go by the amount ot steps that shadow took to power it then since going off timeframe isn't indicative of the actual work done due to him running at superspeed so at worst then he'd have done 3000~4000 steps or something around that given the full distance around the ring
sageof8paths said:
. the machine amplifies shadows power.
Click to expand...
This would be headcanon because this is never stated or implied

sageof8paths said:
as we saw with the interaction with the moon, the beam isn’t emitting planet busting power per second, but rather the full yield of it at the end of its run would destroy the 25,000 mile radius stuff. sonic only withstands the beam for about a minute or 2 before he gets knocked out.
Click to expand...
The beam isn't 5-B overtime as each statement we get is that its going to be an immediate boom that will "explode everything within a 25000 mile radius" when it hits earth with the explosion killing them in space "reducing the planet to a firey pile of rubble".

So your assertion there too would just be headcanon, the beam also doesn't make solid contact with the moon for even a single second in singlular spot for the slice, its also the very last dregs of energy leaving the cannon so that's still not an anti-feat that the little piss left is high 6-A

There's not even a single claim or implication made that they'd need to like focus the beam at one spot over like a 2m duration for it to work
 
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I was never really that much of a fan of Sonic, played a few games and liked the first two movies, but I must admit, what an experience this third one was! Shadow really impressed me as a character (Guess I already have a favorite for the series), and Keanu was amazing

That said, Super Sonic vs Super Shadow was one of the best battles I've seen in a while

I also agree that it isn't really needed to overcomplicate the Eclipse Cannon feat
 
i’ll concede on the eclipse canon being 5B but the 10 minutes stuff is still not what happened at all.

using the timeframe is still better imo bc shadow doesn’t actually take any steps, he’s gliding when he charges that thing up.
Dalesean027 said:
You wouldn't go by timeframe is the 10 minute end doesn't work btw, you'd have to go by the amount ot steps that shadow took to power it then since going off timeframe isn't indicative of the actual work done due to him running at superspeed so at worst then he'd have done 3000~4000 steps or something around that given the full distance around the ring

This would be headcanon because this is never stated or implied
Click to expand...
no it isn’t those are literally the only two interpretations that make sense.

either base shadow is close to super sonic or the machine is amplifying the energy. how else would you explain what happened?
 
Planet level Super Sonic and Shadow, and it's just a third film. Wow, it looks like the filmmakers know something about power levels. Or they just decided to take the scale of the events from CA2 to a new level, but even so, an explosion that destroys everything in a 25k mile radius looks very, very strong. Not to mention that such a level of energy in a minute and 50 seconds was given out by BASIC Shadow. At this rate, should we expect system-level or even galaxy-level feats in the next film? Also, I heard something that Trunks... oh, Silver will be a pretty important figure in the Sonic movie universe. Of course, he will most likely appear in the 5th or 6th film, however... his arc is connected with time travel and divine persons, and given the increase in scale from film to film, we can even expect universal power levels... but these are my fantasies and assumptions, of course. However, given what we have already received, and also knowing the insanity of the game and comic Sonic's power levels, why not? In any case, the work done by the authors is worthy of respect. And this battle between Sonic and Shadow? This is what everyone wanted! Of course, it came out a little short, but how cool it was shown... In addition, I want to note how much more adult this film is compared to the previous ones... it captivates. Perhaps this is one of the few films after watching which you immediately want to say: "give me the next part!" And, damn, the Sonic cinematic universe is one of the few film series where each subsequent sequel becomes better than the previous one. And knowing this, knowing how the authors try, put their soul into the films and listen to the fan community, we can quite seriously say - the next part will be better and better than this one.

Damn, this film gave great hope for a bright future for the cinematic universe!
 
Screenshot_20250108_024539_com.android.chrome_edit_41125686137473.jpg

I just realized that when Amy appears the Moon can be seen still cut in half. It's a pretty cool detail, happy that they wont just forget about it.
Btw, would that increase the current calc for it? Because that seem rather impressive, tbh. Wont change much since it wont be higher then 5-B, but it is a nice supporting feat.
 
ThanatosX said:
Screenshot_20250108_024539_com.android.chrome_edit_41125686137473.jpg

I just realized that when Amy appears the Moon can be seen still cut in half. It's a pretty cool detail, happy that they wont just forget about it.
Btw, would that increase the current calc for it? Because that seem rather impressive, tbh. Wont change much since it wont be higher then 5-B, but it is a nice supporting feat.
Click to expand...
Yeah I've already got a calc i need to put on wiki, I'll do it later today
 
Feats I believe should be calculated:
-Shadow throwing a GUN truck and Knuckles easily catching it
-The explosion of the Eclipse Cannon's overloaded reactor

I'm almost certain the first feat will yield higher than the current Class 25 rating. And the second is a good supporting feat for an uninhibited Super Shadow
 
Also, Robotnik refers to Shadow as a "thermonuclear gerbil." Later, he says that the Eclipse Cannon's overloaded reactor core that was fused with Shadow's Chaos Energy would irradiate the Earth's atmosphere, "killing crops and melting flesh."

So Chaos Energy produces a notable amount of radiation.
 
Sir_Marvulous said:
Feats I believe should be calculated:
-Shadow throwing a GUN truck and Knuckles easily catching it
-The explosion of the Eclipse Cannon's overloaded reactor

I'm almost certain the first feat will yield higher than the current Class 25 rating. And the second is a good supporting feat for an uninhibited Super Shadow
Click to expand...
Knuckles already has some Class M stuff and one like Class P feat so that'd be basic support at most
 
Dalesean027 said:
Even if the black hole ain't legit in its properties it at least still had the gravity of one clearly so you can use the same logic is ribrianne black hole in DBS for knuckles
Click to expand...
Well that logic was based on the material being crushed. You're proposing that this is based on the gravity
 
Sir_Marvulous said:
Also, Robotnik refers to Shadow as a "thermonuclear gerbil." Later, he says that the Eclipse Cannon's overloaded reactor core that was fused with Shadow's Chaos Energy would irradiate the Earth's atmosphere, "killing crops and melting flesh."

So Chaos Energy produces a notable amount of radiation.
Click to expand...
Now that I think about it, Chaos Energy being radioactive is laid out pretty well throughout this movie. Commander Walters said that scientists believed Shadow's Chaos Energy would usher in a new era for humanity

They were probably gonna use Shadow for worldwide nuclear energy exports
 
Dalesean027 said:
Even if the black hole ain't legit in its properties it at least still had the gravity of one clearly so you can use the same logic is ribrianne black hole in DBS for knuckles
Click to expand...
What about in Super sonic and shadows fight them just leaping cracked the ground making lava go up
 
Sir_Marvulous said:
I suppose that means it only qualifies for Gravity Manipulation and not Black Hole Creation?
Click to expand...
I mean you get black hole manip wether the wiki accepts the black hole as a real one or not, that's an entirely seperate thing
Spinoirr said:
What about in Super sonic and shadows fight them just leaping cracked the ground making lava go up
Click to expand...
Class T ~ P
 
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