Sonic (Sonic Boom) vs Timebreaker (Miraculous Ladybug)

[Coolboy6]

Both 7-C, speed equalized, Sonic has prior knowledge of Timebreaker’s touch
Sonic:

Timebreaker: 4

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Timebreaker should win here pretty easily. One touch and Sonic will get erased

 

[Starter_Pack]

Very much so. Sonic wouldn't have the foresight not to let her touch him, either.

 

[Monkey_Dunno]

Yeah. Timebroken FRA

 

[Coolboy6]

Should I give sonic prior knowledge of the touch? Or is that not allowed in vs matches?

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Should I give sonic prior knowledge of the touch? Or is that not allowed in vs matches?

Prior knowledge is allowed. But it's generally assumed they don't have prior knowledge so it needs to be specified

Regardless, my vote won't change because although Sonic is skilled and fast, he doesn't have the experience of his game counterpart so I'm pretty sure Time Breaker will eventually manage to touch and erase him

 

[Coolboy6]

I counted all the votes, but I kinda thought sonic would win because of the range of his abilities and skill.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I counted all the votes, but I kinda thought sonic would win because of the range of his abilities and skill.

This Sonic is haxless and since the AP gap isn't that big, Sonic can't one shot her, and he doesn't have the skill as his game self.

His only notable abilities are fire and ice, but none of those negate durability

 

[Starter_Pack]

At least prior knowledge does give him enough of an edge to make this not a complete stomp for Timebreaker.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Bump

 

[Peppersalt43]

Alright assuming prior knowledge is given

Timebreaker FRA

 

[Peppersalt43]

Bump

 

[Peppersalt43]

Bump

 

[Peppersalt43]

Bump

 

[J.J._Chambers]

Timebreaker FRA

 

[Peppersalt43]

If I counted this correctly, we only need 3 more votes to grace

 

[Peppersalt43]

Bump

 

[Peppersalt43]

Come on, 3 more...

 

[Peppersalt43]

Bump...

 

[Kflare63]

Tb fra

 

[TauanVictor]

What would Sonic's wincon be here?

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Avoiding Timebreaker touching him since he has prior knowledge

 

[TauanVictor]

Avoiding Timebreaker touching him since he has prior knowledge

And then what?

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

And then what?

KO or incap her eventually. However she would win more often that not since all she need to do is touch him

 

[Lightbuster30]

And how do we know he'll be able to land enough hits to ko before Timebreaker gets a lucky touch and GG? Can he one-shot or not? What are the odds of him hitting before getting erased? I'm seeing forcefield creation and there's no powerup listed as a requirement, so that should hold off getting erased, and there's nothing stopping him from putting it back up.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

And how do we know he'll be able to land enough hits to ko before Timebreaker gets a lucky touch and GG? Can he one-shot or not? What are the odds of him hitting before getting erased?

She isn't a martial artist, so Sonic could probably work his way around her to avoid the touch, but eventually, it's likely she'll touch him by chance before Sonic KO her

I'm seeing forcefield creation and there's no powerup listed as a requirement, so that should hold off getting erased, and there's nothing stopping him from putting it back up.

I'm not sure how Forcefield creation works with Sonic, so idk

 

[Lightbuster30]

She isn't a martial artist, so Sonic could probably work his way around her to avoid the touch, but eventually, it's likely she'll touch him by chance before Sonic KO her

How does he fight? Would he try a spin dash? Looking over some more: If he can knock over and fight on par with Metal, who can one-shot 7-Cs stronger than MB 7-Cs, then a single spin dash should one-shot.

Is the erasure instant? Otherwise Sonic can use his superior martial arts to land a hit and knock her out before getting erased completely.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

How does he fight? Would he try a spin dash? Looking over some more: If he can knock over and fight on par with Metal, who can one-shot 7-Cs stronger than MB 7-Cs, then a single spin dash should one-shot.

Honestly idk much since I don't watch Sonic Boom

Is the erasure instant? Otherwise Sonic can use his superior martial arts to land a hit and knock her out before getting erased completely.

Yes this is instant. As soon as she touches Sonic, he'll be frozen in time and will be erased

 

[Peppersalt43]

So uh, is a conclusion reached from this?

 

[Kflare63]

So uh, is a conclusion reached from this?

likely

 

[Mariogoods]

I vote to Bunnyx FRA.

 

[Lightbuster30]

I don't know why we should assume the chances of Sonic one-shotting using superior martial arts and fore-knowledge are lower than Timebreaker getting a lucky grab. She has to grab him, you know, something he knows not to let happen? Something that's hard to do when the other is a better fighter?

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

I don't know why we should assume the chances of Sonic one-shotting using superior martial arts and fore-knowledge are lower than Timebreaker getting a lucky grab. She has to grab him, you know, something he knows not to let happen? Something that's hard to do when the other is a better fighter?

Because all she needs is to touch him. That's it. The AP gap is also not enough for him to one shot Timebreaker, and while Sonic is skilled in his own right, Timebreaker is also skilled in CQC, and since Sonic doesn't have instinctive reactions to dodge every attack, it's very likely that she'll be able to grab him

 

[Lightbuster30]

Because all she needs is to touch him. That's it. The AP gap is also not enough for him to one shot Timebreaker

A: Pointed out how it's very much not likely to happen without Sonic getting at least one hit in. B: Sonic scales to people who one-shot stronger 7-Cs than Timebreaker. It doesn't matter what the ap difference says, if the guy can one-shot stronger opponents than her then that's that.

, and while Sonic is skilled in his own right, Timebreaker is also skilled in CQC, and since Sonic doesn't have instinctive reactions to dodge every attack, it's very likely that she'll be able to grab him

Alright, provide some examples then, because actual martial arts skill and training >> Having some cqc.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

A: Pointed out how it's very much not likely to happen without Sonic getting at least one hit in. B: Sonic scales to people who one-shot stronger 7-Cs than Timebreaker. It doesn't matter what the ap difference says, if the guy can one-shot stronger opponents than her then that's that.

I'm pretty sure that doesn't work this way when two characters from different verses fight each other, since the difference of AP someone need to oneshot another character varies between verses, some verses have it at much less than 2, while for others it could be much higher than that, so while that works if both of them were from Sonic Boom, that isn't applicable here, nor can we assume that Sonic has > 7.5 times gap over Timebreaker

Alright, provide some examples then, because actual martial arts skill and training >> Having some cqc.

She scales to Ladybug and Cat Noir, who are expert at martial arts themselves, and scale much higher than Adrien and Kagami, who both trains in fencing for many years. Her skates also give her a lot of mobility too, and Sonic would have to play very defensively to avoid being touched, which will greatly limit what he could do

 

[Lightbuster30]

I'm pretty sure that doesn't work this way when two characters from different verses fight each other, since the difference of AP someone need to oneshot another character varies between verses, some verses have it at much less than 2, while for others it could be much higher than that, so while that works if both of them were from Sonic Boom, that isn't applicable here, nor can we assume that Sonic has > 7.5 times gap over Timebreaker

She scales to Ladybug and Cat Noir, who are expert at martial arts themselves, and scale much higher than Adrien and Kagami, who both trains in fencing for many years. Her skates also give her a lot of mobility too, and Sonic would have to play very defensively to avoid being touched, which will greatly limit what he could do

Or, maybe it doesn't mean what that means, and instead, it means Sonic and those other verses are massively stronger than the people they one-shot, but since there's nothing concrete, we aren't allowed to give out a higher tier. Now, if those verses explicitly state or show 2x is a one-shot, then it works that way for them, but I haven't seen anything in Sonic Boom showing that.

Why does she scale to their skill level? This ain't future Bunnyx is it? Because it says she's only 14 pre-Timebreaker. So, why does her 14 y/old self scale to them skill-wise? Need some examples for the skate thing, and the martial arts scaling thing.

 

[Gilad_Hyperstar]

Or, maybe it doesn't mean what that means, and instead, it means Sonic and those other verses are massively stronger than the people they one-shot, but since there's nothing concrete, we aren't allowed to give out a higher tier. Now, if those verses explicitly state or show 2x is a one-shot, then it works that way for them, but I haven't seen anything in Sonic Boom showing that.

We can't assume a concrete gap from just one shotting, as different verses have different ratios between the AP of the characters that will be required to one shot, for some that could be two or less, but others may have it much higher. What I mean by that is that Sonic one shotting Knuckles doesn't mean he one shots Timebreaker too since in VS matches with different verses we treat the gap for one shotting as 7.5 times (while those from the same verse have the same gap for one shotting the verse normally have). Unless you can prove Sonic is 7.5 times stronger than Timebreaker, she'd still not be one shotted and can survive hits as well

Why does she scale to their skill level? This ain't future Bunnyx is it? Because it says she's only 14 pre-Timebreaker. So, why does her 14 y/old self scale to them skill-wise? Need some examples for the skate thing, and the martial arts scaling thing.

Akumatized villains always fight almost equally with the likes of Ladybug and Cat Noir. Bunnyx got nothing to do with it

 

[SuperStar]

Let's switch to Archie Sonic to even it out

Timebreaker FRA

 

[Monkey_Dunno]

Let's switch to Archie Sonic to even it out

Someday this will unironically happen.

Grace.

 

[Lightbuster30]

So, wait, Sonic can't one-shot, and Bunnyx can skill match long enough to touch? Okay, where's his wincon?

No offense, but I strongly get vibes that the only reason Sonic was even given foreknowledge was to tip the scales out of stomp territory and hand Bunnyx a free win, because Sonics "wincons" feel borderline impossible, if not outright impossible. Nah, screw it, they are, Sonic isn't skilled enough to consistently land hits and ko her. Something that requires him not to be touched even once the entire time. Something that no one has proven will happen. Maybe if he could out skill her, but wait, she scales to Ladybug and Cat, so there goes that.

Why he even get foreknowledge anyways? How does he even have it? What, does he have precog or something? How does he know about it? Foreknowledge should never be given unless there's an actual reason to give it.