Some weird thoughts about Cthulhu Mythos

[OnsokunoSonic]

These are some of my weird thoughts about the Cthulhu Mythos and i hope people can help to answer it.

1.If the Archetype is Boundless, wouldn't that make every Dimension in Cthulhu Mythos Boundless too?

2.And if that's the case is there a possibility that each Archetype Transcend the last?

3.Also wouldn't this make some kinda paradox?

Thank you in advance.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I'm pretty sure all archetypes are equal to one another. The strongest being the supreme archetype, which yog sothoth and azathoth, who encompasses all the other archetypes.

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

Well yeah that's pretty obvious, Yog Sothoth and Azathoth being the Supreme Archetype encompass everything as mere facets of it.

My question is: is there a possibility that the Archetype Transcend each other just like how Higher Dimension works on the Mythos.

 

[Emirp sumitpo]

I'm pretty sure no

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

I'm gonna wait for more people here.

Anyways thanks for your opinion.

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

Bump

 

[Planck69]

1. No, what makes you think this?

2. No. We used to think that for Azathoth knows what reason but we did away with it.

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

1. Because there's one Archetype in every dimensions?
2. What do you mean by that?

 

[Planck69]

1. An Archetype represents a dimension. It doesn't affect the tiering of that dimensional level in any way.

2. We used to think there was a hierarchy with the Ultimate Gods.

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

1. Ah i see

2. What happened? Did it get rejected or something?

 

[Planck69]

2. It was headcanon that people, myself included, took as fact.

Those where the days of Nyarlathotep transcending infinite 1-A/11-C gaps (which he technically still does but with the old tiering system, it was wank).

 

[LightReinh12345]

Outer gods were ranked AS far AS I remember

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

What do you mean?

 

[Megaraptor149]

Azathoth plagiarism mana-yood-sushai

 

[Planck69]

Azathoth plagiarism mana-yood-sushai

Eh, not quite. People just started assuming the "all reality is a dream" applied to Azathoth for some reason.

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

But he's a lot more popular and probably stronger than him

Azathoth plagiarism mana-yood-sushai

 

[Planck69]

But he's a lot more popular and probably stronger than him

Probably

Bruh....

 

[LordNidhoggr]

These are some of my weird thoughts about the Cthulhu Mythos and i hope people can help to answer it.
(...)
Thank you in advance.

Hey, hope I'm not bothering anyone replying to this, but I was going to make a topic pretty much about this and thought it would be redundant; and this thread is recent enough that it would still work to post in. Anyway, about the topics at hand: I've had these same questions and have done some reading to get some kind of answers, or at least information to be considered. My word isn't law, of course, so don't mistake anything here for being the "correct" interpretation (I have to put this disclaimer I have been accused of dismissing other people's ideas, as though personal opinion/interpretation isn't inherent to the type of discussion this is). So...

1.If the Archetype is Boundless, wouldn't that make every Dimension in Cthulhu Mythos Boundless too?

The biggest thing to understand about dimensions in the Cthulhu Mythos is the divisions between the distinct levels of existence: the Gates. The entirety of the Mythos can be simplified to three primary tiers: Dimensional/Angled Space, the Outer Extension beyond the First Gate, and Ultimate Chaos beyond the Ultimate Gate. Dimensional Space, also known as Angled Space in the actual writing of the stories, is an order of increasingly complex dimensions of ever-growing size that is infinite, reaching "into the dizzy heights of archetypal infinity." Each dimension is the archetype of the simpler dimension below it, as all of space-time (and really everything) is created by the infinite intersections of the Supreme Archetype's wholeness. All of this, the archetypal infinite vastness of dimensions, is described by Lovecraft as:

“The world of men and of the gods of men is merely an infinitesimal phase of an infinitesimal thing—the three-dimensional phase of that small wholeness reached by the First Gate, where 'Umr at-Tawil dictates dreams to the Ancient Ones.”

This leads to the First Gate, which is a realm of existence beyond the concepts of time, space, and energy. The interesting thing is that every level of Angled Space has its own First Gate, as described in Through the Gate of the Silver Key in this passage:

"Glancing backward, he saw not one gate alone, but a multiplicity of gates, at some of which clamoured Forms he strove not to remember."

This shows that there is an infinite number of Gates leading into the Extension of space past the First Gate. Every level of dimensional existence has an extension outside of time and space within the First Gate.

The Ultimate Gate leads to Ultimate Chaos, the realm of the Ultimate/Outer Gods. This plane is beyond all things: time, space, matter, existence, non-existence, reality, change, and concepts. It is the ultimate foundation of all things, where beings make concepts rather than concepts making beings.

2.And if that's the case is there a possibility that each Archetype Transcend the last?

The answer to this is both yes and no. Yes, archetypes do transcend the simpler archetypes beneath them. 4D space is a greater archetype than 3D space, for instance. However, this isn't exactly true when speaking of the Ultimate Gods and their archetypal existence. The only hierarchy of the Ultimate Gods is that the Supreme Archetype is above all other archetypes, all other archetypes being fractions of the Supreme Archetype. Yog-Sothoth is explicitly described as being the Supreme Archetype and it can be argued that Azathoth is also the Supreme Archetype. However, that hierarchy is very minimal; all of the Ultimate Gods are Tier 0 and are nigh-omnipotent, with the Supreme Archetype essentially being fully-omnipotent; thus the power of the Ultimate Gods can be described as infinite, with the only restriction being that the Supreme Archetype can command/change the other Ultimate Gods while they cannot change or command the Supreme Archetype.

3.Also wouldn't this make some kinda paradox?

Maybe, but the Ultimate God Archetypes are beyond paradoxes. If it's a question of "what the god is" versus "what is possible/paradox-free," the former takes priority; the Ultimate Gods are more real than the concept of paradoxes.

I made a blog about some of this stuff if anyone is interested. A lot of it is interpretation (some could say headcanon, but I think I have good foundations for what I propose), but a lot is just exploring and trying to explain concepts directly from the text.

(PS-Ithaqua should be added to the profiles of the Cthulhu Mythos)

 

[OnsokunoSonic]

Isn't this necro. Anyway thanks for the paragraph.