Some minor Hyuga Clan revision

[Suigetsuhyugs]

Hamura is not a hyuga lol. He lived on the moon with the moon Otsutsiki clan and kept his "Otsutsiki" surname.

But he was not only the clan leader as it was him to formed the hyuga clan on the moon, so you can say that Hamura created the main family branch

First of all, he didn't ban her. He gave up on her. She would still have access to anything any other main family member would. Second of all, Hiashi has shown no resentment towards Hinata after part 1. We actually have this statement

Which implies Hiashi is indeed taking care of Hinata again. Again, even further reinforced by this statement

Which shows Hiashi not only still considers Hinata his daughter (so she's not "kicked out of the main family") and that he's aware of their relationship.
And as I've said, Hinata having scrolls or books to learn from makes this not a BIQ feat but a skill/talent feat.

But sure as hell didnt trained her which still measn she had to learn it on her own. First those scrolls/books are your assumption. Also Neji learn rotation is not a BIQ feat anyways he didnt learned it in the middle of a fight, no one knows how long it took him to learn it and weither or not he had to study the theory before the practice after all Neji apparently knew the theory enough to explain it to Tenten.

My g both Rotation and 64 palms are literally a head clan exclusive move. Whether there are scrolls about it or not does not matter, Neji wouldn't have access to them. But unlike TLF, the databook verbatim states kaiten is spread through ORAL TRADITION so it would most likely not have text written on it.

So is TLF and yet Hanabi doesnt know it neither does Hiashi so it doesnt mean there is a eaasy way using scrolls.

No it's not. There being no active war makes it so there's no logical circumstance where Neji could actively watch people use rotation. The Hanabi example is goofy af because that's a HEAD CLAN member training another HEAD CLAN MEMBER. Neji wouldn't be trained by the head clan to see it. And again, the databook says he came up with it so it seems like he straight up just reinvented it by himself. Which would straight up be on par with Minato creating the rasengan in terms of talent and intelligence.

First why would a war be the only situatuon to show? Neji just used it right away in the middle of the chunin exam in front of a bunch of people, so the clan is not so secretive about showing it to outsiders. Boruto is not hyuga clan and Hanabi was not supposed to be main branch to begin with since Hinata was born first so either way Boruto and Hanabi would not be able to learn it. Even the enemies of the hyuga knew and saw rotation so even if Neji wouldnt have seen it which is unlikely he would have heard of it and that was the whole point he didnt created the technique he copied the one already existed.

Oh my god . Okay so
1. We don't know if Neji has actually ever seen Hinata use it or if Neji was interested in learning TLF.
2. That would, literally, be a thing of chakra control skill and not BIQ. I've went over this like 3x already and you keep repeating the same thing over and over again without actually addressing my arguments.
3. Just one more time so the people in the back can hear it. Learning a technique when you straight up have the manual for it (or a teacher) = skill. Breaking down and reinventing techniques you have only heard of or at best seen a handful of times = intelligence.

Neji was the one who helped Hinata train and she learn that technique during the timeskip. He was interested in rotation and in getting stronger so why wouldnt one of the most powerful techniques interest hm? Again unless he learned it the middle of a fight its not BIQ. And again assuming there are scrolls or manuals or even teachers even though she was the only user alive is the same as your headcannon that he reinvented the technique, he copied a technique that already existed.

No it doesn't what are you talking about? Ah yes, Jiraya creating the "shuriken whatever jutsu" is so superior to kid Neji reinventing a high class hiden above jonin level jutsu by himself.
I guess in that case prepubescent Naruto inventing the sexy jutsu means he's as smart or smarter than adult Hinata.

So are you comparing shuriken throw and transformation jutsu twith TLF? TLF is an high level technique and if you dont remember Minato never managed to add an element to the rasengan and he was a genius Naruto did that in a week or so. So yes inventing a new variation is a huge deal. And Shuriken whatever jutsu is not even a real jutsu and i would consider Sexy jutsu actually impressive considering Naruto is not just copying apparence he is making small changes to his body which should be considered impressive

 

[DavidTPPM]

But he was not only the clan leader as it was him to formed the hyuga clan on the moon, so you can say that Hamura created the main family branch

You can say he created whatever you want. He was still not a part of the Hyuga himself. To deny Nejis statement over a headcanon that Hamura OTSUTSIKI is somehow a Hyuga would be ridiculous.

But sure as hell didnt trained her which still measn she had to learn it on her own. First those scrolls/books are your assumption. Also Neji learn rotation is not a BIQ feat anyways he didnt learned it in the middle of a fight, no one knows how long it took him to learn it and weither or not he had to study the theory before the practice after all Neji apparently knew the theory enough to explain it to Tenten.

Prove he didn't train her. Actually let me stop you before you even try to come up with another fanfiction. It's verbatim stated in The Last novelization that HE DID TRAIN HER. It's ridiculous how you call the scrolls and books my assumption where your entire belief she learned it herself out of nowhere is equally an assumption. The only difference being mine has actually implications and evidence behind it while your are just arguments from ignorance.

Neji CAME UP with rotation himself. Both the databook and the manga state he created it on his own. He couldn't study anything because it's spread through word and was verbatim stated to have came up with it rather than learning it. It's funny you say it's not BIQ but follow it up with

"Neji apparently knew the theory enough to explain it to Tenten."

When that literally proves he was smart enough to completely understand a high level beyond jonin level difficulty jutsu to such an extent he could explain it to someone else. The ability to break down and understand techniques to this level from just hearing about them (or at best seeing them few times) is BIQ feat that surpasses most of the verse. Combining punching gloves with punching is a BIQ feat for maybe monkeys.

So is TLF and yet Hanabi doesnt know it neither does Hiashi so it doesnt mean there is a eaasy way using scrolls.

No, it just means they don't have the chakra control skill to use it. If I show you a book on how to do a back flip it doesn't mean you will be able to a backflip.

First why would a war be the only situatuon to show? Neji just used it right away in the middle of the chunin exam in front of a bunch of people, so the clan is not so secretive about showing it to outsiders. Boruto is not hyuga clan and Hanabi was not supposed to be main branch to begin with since Hinata was born first so either way Boruto and Hanabi would not be able to learn it. Even the enemies of the hyuga knew and saw rotation so even if Neji wouldnt have seen it which is unlikely he would have heard of it and that was the whole point he didnt created the technique he copied the one already existed.

I never said war would be the ONLY circumstance under which Neji could have seen it. I even said he might have seen it in one of my replies. I also never said the clan is secretive about showing it to people but it's funny you try to use the logic on Neji of all people since the clan treats Hinata as royalty but Neji tried to kill her literally in the same arc .

Anyway I went over this. It would be extremely unlikely for Neji to encounter a rotation user, not to mention see them use rotation several times at that age. You haven't addressed any of my arguments for why this is the case so I'll just be staying with my argument that Neji either hasn't seen it in action ever (since he supposedly came up with it in his own) or he's only seen it like once or twice. Same thing for 64 palms.

Neji was the one who helped Hinata train and she learn that technique during the timeskip. He was interested in rotation and in getting stronger so why wouldnt one of the most powerful techniques interest hm? Again unless he learned it the middle of a fight its not BIQ.

There's just simply no evidence Hiashi wasn't teaching Hinata during the timeskip. If anything, it would only be logical he did since Neji was actively going on missions and becoming a jonin and whatnot. So it would only be logical for Hinata to train with Hiashi while Neji is busy since she "put herself under strict training" according to the 4th databook.

Whether Neji was or wasn't interested in TLF doesn't even really matter. He was actively going on missions and improving in every other direction possible. Why would he try to learn an extremely high difficulty ability like TLF which nobody alive even knows it when he already has 2 one shot techniques lmao? He could have just considered it as not important or useful enough to learn.

You really don't understand what BIQ even is. When Neji learned it doesn't matter. The fact that Neji completely understood it to a point where he could perfectly replicate it is what matters and what shows his intelligence

And again assuming there are scrolls or manuals or even teachers even though she was the only user alive is the same as your headcannon that he reinvented the technique, he copied a technique that already existed.

You're a goofyass dude lmao. You have this same nick in Quora right? I remember a goofyahh mfer like this with the nick "Suigetsu Hyuga" in my comments on there. First of all, YOU made the assumption that since we don't know if someone taught Hinata the jutsu it means she learned it out of nowhere. I countered that claim with the fact it's stated to be a technique "taught to the main family" and that there could have been books or scrolls she used. I didn't make a claim that there are. I replied to your argument from ignorance.

Second of all, it's not my headcanon. Hiashi says Neji could "independently recreate it on his own" while the databook states he "came up with it on his own".

So are you comparing shuriken throw and transformation jutsu twith TLF?

I'm attacking your narrative of "creating a technique > learning a technique" by showing you an example of how ridiculous it is.

TLF is an high level technique and if you dont remember Minato never managed to add an element to the rasengan and he was a genius Naruto did that in a week or so. So yes inventing a new variation is a huge deal. And Shuriken whatever jutsu is not even a real jutsu and i would consider Sexy jutsu actually impressive considering Naruto is not just copying apparence he is making small changes to his body which should be considered impressive

Sooo your point is that inventing a technique (something that's implied Neji did with rotation) is far more impressive than creating a variation (something Hinata did with TLF in TL)? Okay?

Shuriken whatever jutsu is as much of a jutsu as anything else in the literal sense of things.

 

[LuffyRuffy46307]

looks good to me

 

[DavidTPPM]

So yeah, i agree with everything except Hinata being above Neji in terms of battle smarts.

I also think Hinata should probably get AD. Anyone else? @Tdjwo

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

You can say he created whatever you want. He was still not a part of the Hyuga himself. To deny Nejis statement over a headcanon that Hamura OTSUTSIKI is somehow a Hyuga would be ridiculous.

Lol you are basing everything on the last name? Really? To begin with all the hyuga are descendents of Hamura its a fact so he is an hyuga by all means and even worse considering he leaded the hyuga clan, that the same as saying hiashi is not a hyuga.

Prove he didn't train her. Actually let me stop you before you even try to come up with another fanfiction. It's verbatim stated in The Last novelization that HE DID TRAIN HER. It's ridiculous how you call the scrolls and books my assumption where your entire belief she learned it herself out of nowhere is equally an assumption. The only difference being mine has actually implications and evidence behind it while your are just arguments from ignorance.

He did trained her we saw that on the Hinata's flashbacks lol, Hiashi trained her when she was a kid before she was abandoned by him because she was "weak". Occam's razor the simplest explaination is she learned it by herself since there is no prove of anyone who could have taught her.

Neji CAME UP with rotation himself. Both the databook and the manga state he created it on his own. He couldn't study anything because it's spread through word and was verbatim stated to have came up with it rather than learning it. It's funny you say it's not BIQ but follow it up with

Both the statements just say he learned the rotation by himself by recreating a technique that already existed, which by all means imply he copied it knowing it existed prior.

"Neji apparently knew the theory enough to explain it to Tenten."

When that literally proves he was smart enough to completely understand a high level beyond jonin level difficulty jutsu to such an extent he could explain it to someone else. The ability to break down and understand techniques to this level from just hearing about them (or at best seeing them few times) is BIQ feat that surpasses most of the verse. Combining punching gloves with punching is a BIQ feat for maybe monkeys.

Lol I can go to university and take 5 years to learn medicine that doesnt make me a battle genius. All the theory was a result of him studying the technique for God knows how long.

No, it just means they don't have the chakra control skill to use it. If I show you a book on how to do a back flip it doesn't mean you will be able to a backflip.

Chakra control is product of trainning and also being a genius helps considering Sakura was a genius on chakra control so lack of chakra control is no excuse to not learning it.

I never said war would be the ONLY circumstance under which Neji could have seen it. I even said he might have seen it in one of my replies. I also never said the clan is secretive about showing it to people but it's funny you try to use the logic on Neji of all people since the clan treats Hinata as royalty but Neji tried to kill her literally in the same arc .

What does that have to do with anything? Even if she was royalty there was no one alive who could have teached her, on the other hand Neji could have easily watched while Hiashi taught it to Hanabi or someone else, heck we saw Neji present when Hinata was training.

Anyway I went over this. It would be extremely unlikely for Neji to encounter a rotation user, not to mention see them use rotation several times at that age. You haven't addressed any of my arguments for why this is the case so I'll just be staying with my argument that Neji either hasn't seen it in action ever (since he supposedly came up with it in his own) or he's only seen it like once or twice. Same thing for 64 palms.

Hinata couldnt have watched anyone use TLF because there was no one alive to do it. And it's pretty easy considering how the hyuga clan is about fighting that Hiashi could have used daily as trainning or like we saw in Boruto if Hyuga dojo gets challanged they would fight other marcial artists.

There's just simply no evidence Hiashi wasn't teaching Hinata during the timeskip. If anything, it would only be logical he did since Neji was actively going on missions and becoming a jonin and whatnot. So it would only be logical for Hinata to train with Hiashi while Neji is busy since she "put herself under strict training" according to the 4th databook.

Just because Hiashi didnt actually ban her from the family doesnt mean he got back to trainning her, he still though her too "weak". And Hinata was also being a chunin, Hinata didnt stopped being a ninja during the timeskip.

Whether Neji was or wasn't interested in TLF doesn't even really matter. He was actively going on missions and improving in every other direction possible. Why would he try to learn an extremely high difficulty ability like TLF which nobody alive even knows it when he already has 2 one shot techniques lmao? He could have just considered it as not important or useful enough to learn.

So was Hinata going back on the anime jounin actually seem much more free to do whatever they want that other chunin Kakashi, Guy, Kurenai, Asuma passed almost the entire time on missions for the team not really having their own, and Neji doesnt have a genin team to train. Really? Ok then i guess increasing the range of byakugan didnt matter considering he increased a lot but Hinata still far passed Neji on that too, and Hinata learned the 64 palms and TLF even thought she already had learned the empty palm which Neji also learned during the timeskip.

You really don't understand what BIQ even is. When Neji learned it doesn't matter. The fact that Neji completely understood it to a point where he could perfectly replicate it is what matters and what shows his intelligence

So does when i complete my university does that mean my BIQ is bigger than others? Better yet Sakura has a better BIQ since she can understand how to actually control her chakra into using medical ninjutsu that she studied for about 2 years.

You're a goofyass dude lmao. You have this same nick in Quora right? I remember a goofyahh mfer like this with the nick "Suigetsu Hyuga" in my comments on there. First of all, YOU made the assumption that since we don't know if someone taught Hinata the jutsu it means she learned it out of nowhere. I countered that claim with the fact it's stated to be a technique "taught to the main family" and that there could have been books or scrolls she used. I didn't make a claim that there are. I replied to your argument from ignorance.

I never said she created the technique lol I said she learned it alone since there is no main family to explained it to her since no one else knew how to use it.

Second of all, it's not my headcanon. Hiashi says Neji could "independently recreate it on his own" while the databook states he "came up with it on his own".

Yes all of it just saying he copied a technique.

I'm attacking your narrative of "creating a technique > learning a technique" by showing you an example of how ridiculous it is.

Really? Then Minato is a dumb person because he created a jutsu instead of learning one that was already there? Maybe Hagoromo is also dumb after all creating bijuu its stupid its better to just copy whatever kaguya had done before. (Sarcasm)

Sooo your point is that inventing a technique (something that's implied Neji did with rotation) is far more impressive than creating a variation (something Hinata did with TLF in TL)? Okay?

Again Neji never did create the rotation he copied it, She made a better version of an high level ninjutsu from her clan, considering Neji was unable to even learned the base one its pretty fair to say Hinata creating a jutsu> Neji copying a jutsu

Shuriken whatever jutsu is as much of a jutsu as anything else in the literal sense of things.

Its a movement at best, and he didnt created the act of throwing shuriken he just gave it another name.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Lol you are basing everything on the last name? Really?

"lol you are really basing everything in the thing which indicates what clan you are from?"
Yes? Yk what **** these goofyahh headcanon games of yours. PROVE Hamura is from an official Hyuga clan member AND that he's a bigger genius than Neji. Go ahead…

To begin with all the hyuga are descendents of Hamura its a fact so he is an hyuga by all means and even worse considering he leaded the hyuga clan, that the same as saying hiashi is not a hyuga.

Not how clans work broski. Kaguya isn't from every clan ever either. He's not a Hyuga, cope.

He did trained her we saw that on the Hinata's flashbacks lol, Hiashi trained her when she was a kid before she was abandoned by him because she was "weak". Occam's razor the simplest explaination is she learned it by herself since there is no prove of anyone who could have taught her.

Hahaha define occams razor for me please.
We don't have any evidence for her learning it by herself. That would be equally an assumption as saying Hiashi or someone else taught it to her.

Hinata taught it herself = assumption
Someone taught it to Hinata = assumption
Hinata learning it from books = assumption

Hence why I'm not making any claims and I'm just listing possibilities.

Both the statements just say he learned the rotation by himself by recreating a technique that already existed, which by all means imply he copied it knowing it existed prior.

I'm not saying he didn't know about it lmao. Bro if I were to tell you nuclear reactors exist would that be enough for you to create one yourself? No. Exactly. Which is what makes Neji doing so with rotation and 64 palms so damn impressive.

Lol I can go to university and take 5 years to learn medicine that doesnt make me a battle genius. All the theory was a result of him studying the technique for God knows how long.

Holy mother of false equivalences what ?

A better comparison would be "If someone told me Brazilian Jiujitsu exists and I mastered it from that information alone it would make me a battle genius".

Also, wdym "studying the theory" ? What parts of "came up with it by himself" and "Hiden technique only taught to main family through oral tradition" did you not understand?

Chakra control is product of trainning and also being a genius helps considering Sakura was a genius on chakra control so lack of chakra control is no excuse to not learning it.

Okay first of all it's not just about chakra control but about controlling it in a specific way. Narutos chakra control is the best out of any human but he can't even perform medical ninjutsu for example. By your logic kid Sakura would be better at CC than Naruto. Hinata literally didn't master anything besides TLF in the span of 3 years despite being outright taught the technique. So it is a pretty hefty time investment. Especially if you consider how useless it is for someone with TWO one shot techniques.

And do you wanna know what's an excuse for not learning it?
NEJI NOT HAVING ACCESS TO THE DAMN TECHNIQUE SINCE HE IS NOT A MEMBER OF THE MAIN FAMILY

What does that have to do with anything? Even if she was royalty there was no one alive who could have teached her, on the other hand Neji could have easily watched while Hiashi taught it to Hanabi or someone else, heck we saw Neji present when Hinata was training.

You have the reading comprehension of a chainsawman fan istg . The royalty thing was in reference to Neji not giving a crap about what the clan wants and doesn't want.

"the side family member could have easily watched as Hiashi taught Hanabi the secret technique only taught to the main family" must be the most disingenuous attempt at an argument ever. So for the last time. I won't repeat this again.

1. Neji COULDN'T have been near them when they trained rotation because HE'S NOT ALLOWED TO LEARN THE TECHNIQUE
2. Neji didn't copy it, he, and I'm quiting the databook verbatim, CAME UP WITH IT HIMSELF

Hinata couldnt have watched anyone use TLF because there was no one alive to do it. And it's pretty easy considering how the hyuga clan is about fighting that Hiashi could have used daily as trainning or like we saw in Boruto if Hyuga dojo gets challanged they would fight other marcial artists.

Irrelevant. Just because nobody can perform it doesn't mean nobody has the knowledge of how to perform it. You can know how to do something without being able to do it yourself.

Just because Hiashi didnt actually ban her from the family doesnt mean he got back to trainning her, he still though her too "weak". And Hinata was also being a chunin, Hinata didnt stopped being a ninja during the timeskip.

Yeah I do not care, I'm saying him training her during the time skip is possible because he clearly had a change of heart + Hinatas whole narrative in CE was that she changed from her weak self. If you want to claim he didn't train her go ahead and prove it. I don't care if he did.

So was Hinata going back on the anime jounin actually seem much more free to do whatever they want that other chunin Kakashi, Guy, Kurenai, Asuma passed almost the entire time on missions for the team not really having their own, and Neji doesnt have a genin team to train.

Lolz Hinata did 25 missions in the time skip, most of which were D and C rank (only 8 B and 1 A rank) while Neji did 29, (out of which 2 were S rank and 11 A rank. So I guess to you freedom means more missions with higher difficulty .
And your eyeballs getting stronger doesn't mean you're a genius lmao. Actually if anything we should give Neji a 10km range as well since the databook states Hinatas BoS byakugan rivals Nejis implying they're similar.

So does when i complete my university does that mean my BIQ is bigger than others? Better yet Sakura has a better BIQ since she can understand how to actually control her chakra into using medical ninjutsu that she studied for about 2 years.

Ah yes creating and mastering a highly advanced attack is definitely the same as learning about healing dead fish.

I never said she created the technique lol I said she learned it alone since there is no main family to explained it to her since no one else knew how to use it.

I didn't say you said she created it lmao. I said you said she learned it out of nowhere. Since you deny the possibility of books or clan members telling her how to perform it (despite the databook literally saying it's TAUGHT to the main clan). Either way I'm done with this point until you bring proof she learned it by herself with no assistance from the clan or shit like books and scrolls.

Yes all of it just saying he copied a technique.

"came up with it by himself"
"independently recreated it"

Really? Then Minato is a dumb person because he created a jutsu instead of learning one that was already there? Maybe Hagoromo is also dumb after all creating bijuu its stupid its better to just copy whatever kaguya had done before. (Sarcasm)

Fun fact actually (not really, this is common Naruto knowledge): the rasengan is just a copy of the tailed beast bomb . Yk, there was this whole Manga one shot about it and stuff…

Again Neji never did create the rotation he copied it, She made a better version of an high level ninjutsu from her clan, considering Neji was unable to even learned the base one its pretty fair to say Hinata creating a jutsu> Neji copying a jutsu

"came up with it by himself"
"independently recreated it"

Prove Neji tried learning TLF.

Its a movement at best, and he didnt created the act of throwing shuriken he just gave it another name.

Wowza, define the term jutsu. Actually let me have a go at it first.

Jutsu (術)—meaning technique, method, spell, skill or trick—is a bound morpheme of the Sino-Japanese lexical stratum of the Japanese language.

Now please stop spamming, thanks.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

"lol you are really basing everything in the thing which indicates what clan you are from?"
Yes? Yk what **** these goofyahh headcanon games of yours. PROVE Hamura is from an official Hyuga clan member AND that he's a bigger genius than Neji. Go ahead…

Is it? I mean not so long ago you tried to say Boruto is a hyuga as far as i remember his last name is Uzumaki. There is the novel a character called Mukai Kohinata that was a family that split off from the hyuga clan so apparently there are people that dont have the hyuga last name but are still part of the hyuga clan. He created teseigan what more do you need? He fought kaguya and was stated to be equal to his brother hagoromo.

Not how clans work broski. Kaguya isn't from every clan ever either. He's not a Hyuga, cope.

Every clan comes from her, and even if you dont like that Hamura was stated to be the leader of the hyuga clan on the moon, as far as i know to be a leader you need to belong to that clan.

Hahaha define occams razor for me please.
We don't have any evidence for her learning it by herself. That would be equally an assumption as saying Hiashi or someone else taught it to her.

We have more than enough evidence to assume she learned it by herself its called being the only user. Are you telling me that someone teached Itachi to use Amaterasu? Or susanoo? He was never stated to have learned it alone.

Hinata taught it herself = assumption
Someone taught it to Hinata = assumption
Hinata learning it from books = assumption

Hence why I'm not making any claims and I'm just listing possibilities.

And still you are trying to use it as evidence that she is not as smart as she is, she learned it alone otherwise there would be another user to teach her, regardless of having books or not she learned it alone.

I'm not saying he didn't know about it lmao. Bro if I were to tell you nuclear reactors exist would that be enough for you to create one yourself? No. Exactly. Which is what makes Neji doing so with rotation and 64 palms so damn impressive.

If i saw someone else making one i could copy their movements and do it myself too.

Holy mother of false equivalences what ?

A better comparison would be "If someone told me Brazilian Jiujitsu exists and I mastered it from that information alone it would make me a battle genius".

Thats not a better comparison. And its nothing like Neji did to begin with he was a hyuga which means he already new all the basic techniques and mostly how it works, he aint learning an entirely marcial art out of the mere information it exists.

Also, wdym "studying the theory" ? What parts of "came up with it by himself" and "Hiden technique only taught to main family through oral tradition" did you not understand?

He knew it existed most likely saw it happening and copied already aware of all the basics and very much likely after analysisng it with byakugan.

Okay first of all it's not just about chakra control but about controlling it in a specific way. Narutos chakra control is the best out of any human but he can't even perform medical ninjutsu for example. By your logic kid Sakura would be better at CC than Naruto. Hinata literally didn't master anything besides TLF in the span of 3 years despite being outright taught the technique. So it is a pretty hefty time investment. Especially if you consider how useless it is for someone with TWO one shot techniques.

Naruto can heal people lol, and by all means medical ninjutsu falls under Yang release which Naruto couldnt normally use until he mastered the use thanks to Hagoromo.
Hinata learned the empty palm and learned how to use 32 and 64 palms. And how long did Neji took to learn rotation and 64 palms? he could have taken over 5 years considering he started to train at the same age as everyone else which means 5, he had 7 years until the chunin exam.

And do you wanna know what's an excuse for not learning it?
NEJI NOT HAVING ACCESS TO THE DAMN TECHNIQUE SINCE HE IS NOT A MEMBER OF THE MAIN FAMILY

Then whats the excuse for having learned rotation which was also a technique from the main family? Or are you telling me Neji never gone over the rules to try to learn more than he was supposed to?

You have the reading comprehension of a chainsawman fan istg . The royalty thing was in reference to Neji not giving a crap about what the clan wants and doesn't want.

He cares too much about what the clan wants thats why he was mad of Hinata for most of the time.

"the side family member could have easily watched as Hiashi taught Hanabi the secret technique only taught to the main family" must be the most disingenuous attempt at an argument ever. So for the last time. I won't repeat this again.

1. Neji COULDN'T have been near them when they trained rotation because HE'S NOT ALLOWED TO LEARN THE TECHNIQUE
2. Neji didn't copy it, he, and I'm quiting the databook verbatim, CAME UP WITH IT HIMSELF

So i mean Hiashi has no problem about showing it to an enemy why isnt he afraid that the enemy would copy it? Rotation doesnt even actually need the byakugan to work just the chakra control.
Lets see he didnt created the rotation technique because we know it already existed so he copied it.

Irrelevant. Just because nobody can perform it doesn't mean nobody has the knowledge of how to perform it. You can know how to do something without being able to do it yourself.

Just because you are not allowed to learn it doesnt mean Neji never heard the knowledge about the technique. Both are the same thing assumptions.

Yeah I do not care, I'm saying him training her during the time skip is possible because he clearly had a change of heart + Hinatas whole narrative in CE was that she changed from her weak self. If you want to claim he didn't train her go ahead and prove it. I don't care if he did.

He had a change of heart about how he never told Neji the truth not about his whole life. Why would Hinata not be weak anymore would suggest she was teached by her father? Her whole narrative was that she had to train all by herself because her clan quited on her. Pretty sure the burden is on you to prove it since there is no proof that happened.

Lolz Hinata did 25 missions in the time skip, most of which were D and C rank (only 8 B and 1 A rank) while Neji did 29, (out of which 2 were S rank and 11 A rank. So I guess to you freedom means more missions with higher difficulty .

And Hinata has to do it on a team with a jounin Neji could do it by himself, like how Jiraya can even go to brothels during missions chunin not so much. And just a reminder NEji started 1 year before Hinata so having a difference of 4 missions for a year is not a good way to compare.

And your eyeballs getting stronger doesn't mean you're a genius lmao. Actually if anything we should give Neji a 10km range as well since the databook states Hinatas BoS byakugan rivals Nejis implying they're similar.

As far as i saw the databook states Hinata's byakugan is not inferior to Neji not that they rival each other

Ah yes creating and mastering a highly advanced attack is definitely the same as learning about healing dead fish.

What are you even talking about?

I didn't say you said she created it lmao. I said you said she learned it out of nowhere. Since you deny the possibility of books or clan members telling her how to perform it (despite the databook literally saying it's TAUGHT to the main clan). Either way I'm done with this point until you bring proof she learned it by herself with no assistance from the clan or shit like books and scrolls.

They never said its taught to the main clan it states "its only taught to the main house" It doesnt mean it was teached to Hinata and databook states Neji was her teacher, if she had been taught by her father it would have been there, and there is another databook stating her talent increased thanks to her teachers and friends never mentioning her father or family for that matter.

"came up with it by himself"
"independently recreated it"

Im a genius i can use 2 stones to make fire something that was invented tons of years ago but i "came up" with it too. "recreated it" do you know the meaning of it? He didnt invented rotation he copied the already existed one by himself thats what it means.

Fun fact actually (not really, this is common Naruto knowledge): the rasengan is just a copy of the tailed beast bomb . Yk, there was this whole Manga one shot about it and stuff…

He was inspired by it but Minato cant perform the bijuu dama he created a jutsu with the goal to defeat the bijuu dama something that the one shot makes sure to mention. The point that matters is that Minato didnt copied the bijuu dama to give it another name he created a jutsu with a completely different method since he doesnt have positive and negative chakra.

"came up with it by himself"
"independently recreated it"

Prove Neji tried learning TLF.

He studied and he taught Hinata and he still cant use it, so thats it he cant use it.

Wowza, define the term jutsu. Actually let me have a go at it first.

Jutsu (術)—meaning technique, method, spell, skill or trick—is a bound morpheme of the Sino-Japanese lexical stratum of the Japanese language.

Now please stop spamming, thanks.

Where does it state there that throwing shuriken is a different jutsu just because he gave it another name? Jiraya is throwing shuriken which does have a name Shurikenjutsu which is what Jiraya did the fact he refered it with another name doesnt make it another completely new jutsu. Thats the same as i buy an iphone and call it Myphone and sell it as if i invented it myself.

 

[Tdjwo]

Alright, this is becoming quite absurd. The back-and-forth argument won't bring about any meaningful change, which is acceptable because none of us truly disagrees with the central point. Our divergence lies in our opinions regarding who possesses the superior BIQ, whether it's Hinata or Neji.

Firstly, the notion here that implies Neji "created" the rotation and 64 palms by himself sounds very ridiculous. The manga directly implies that Neji learnt the technique through observation. The mere fact that Hiashi wasn't aware that Neji could do the rotation yet Neji knew the name of the technique means he is quite knowledgeable on the jutsu which also means he's either seen someone from the main branch perform it before, or he was told about how the technique works. For him to know the name of the technique and even explain it to TenTen means he didn't create the technique on his own. He probably got the idea from a scroll or saw someone performing it. What makes Neji's feat superb isn't that he came up with the jutsu himself. Rather, it's the fact that he was able to replicate the technique without any teacher which is only possible by a genius.

Secondly, Hinata's feat of combining the Twin Lion Fist with the 64 palms is truly a skill feat as David TPPM noted. But that doesn't mean it isn't a BIQ feat. If you take a look at Hinata's current profile, her progress in combat and chakra control is noted and tied to her intelligence. Although there's a little contention on that "medical-nin part"

Intelligence: Above average (Although she was criticized as a failure and unworthy to be the heir of the Hyuga clan, Hinata quickly honed her skills after reconciling her with cousin Neji, managing to hold her own against numerous Zetsu clones and eventually Juubi spawns during the Great Shinobi War. True to her clan's traditions, she is a specialist in close-range combat who attempts to disable her opponent by sealing off their tenketsu before going in for the finish. She also has pronounced chakra control, acting as a medical-nin and assisted in the erection of numerous seals. Also, she produced various techniques of her own from what she already knew in the anime (which reappeared inside materials and the games), demonstrating creativity and ingenuity)

Nonetheless, it shows that as Hinata overcame her weaknesses, her progress improved as she tied in her intelligence and knowledge on chakra control to improve her abilities and perform extraordinary chakra control feats. This is why her chakra control is tied to her intelligence.

Now for the Hinata vs Neji BIQ situation, I still believe Hinata creating TLF and mixing it with 64 palms(which she literally just achieved right on the spot), is better than Neji performing rotation and 64 palms which are techniques even Hanabi could do.

The rotation is never stated to be a high level gentle fist jutsu. Sure, it has great feats but that doesn't make it high-level "to the Hyuga Clan, at least". Meanwhile, the Twin Lion Fist is explicitly and verbatim stated to be High-level amongst the Hyuga clan. It requires absolute perfect control and focus where even the slightest mistake makes you fail. Yet Hinata is creative enough to conjoin it along with the 64 palms which until that point in the story, was considered the most prominent gentle fist technique. Neji never did anything on that level and there's no reason to assume he could have learnt it if he wanted to since it's already known that Neji strived to become stronger, not weaker. So claiming that he chose not to learn it sounds like an excuse to me.

Anyways, I don't want to talk about this anymore nor do I want us to clutter this thread on the same topic so if anyone still disagrees with Hinata having more BIQ than Neji, that's fine. I just need staff votes before creating the real Hyuga AP upgrades.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Is it?

0 evidence for what I asked, I take it as a concession. Either Neji > Hamura or Neji > Hyuga ≠ Hamura.

Firstly, the notion here that implies Neji "created" the rotation and 64 palms by himself sounds very ridiculous. The manga directly implies that Neji learnt the technique through observation. The mere fact that Hiashi wasn't aware that Neji could do the rotation yet Neji knew the name of the technique means he is quite knowledgeable on the jutsu which also means he's either seen someone from the main branch perform it before, or he was told about how the technique works. For him to know the name of the technique and even explain it to TenTen means he didn't create the technique on his own. He probably got the idea from a scroll or saw someone performing it.

I already addressed all of this. First of all, knowing the name doesn't mean he's "quite knowledgeable" on the technique. I know the name "string theory" but I don't know anything about it. Second of all, "came up with it" and "independently recreated" imply he either remade it from scratch or only really heard about it's existence and essentially invented it from that. Him explaining the technique to Tenten does mean he understood it extremely well, but since he had no way of gaining that knowledge from an outside source it would mean he simply found it all out himself. Lastly, there should be no scrolls (especially ones Neji has access to) as the technique is spread through the main branch by word.

I can explain this to you more in depth on discord if you want since I agree it's not super relevant to the main topic and it's pointless to spam this thread about it.

Now for the Hinata vs Neji BIQ situation, I still believe Hinata creating TLF and mixing it with 64 palms(which she literally just achieved right on the spot), is better than Neji performing rotation and 64 palms which are techniques even Hanabi could do.

The rotation is never stated to be a high level gentle fist jutsu. Sure, it has great feats but that doesn't make it high-level "to the Hyuga Clan, at least".

You are still completely missing the point of what's impressive about Neji mastering 64p and kaiten… also I straight up sent a scan calling Kaiten a high grade jutsu that even jonin couldn't perform. Please read my points before replying .

Yet Hinata is creative enough to conjoin it along with the 64 palms which until that point in the story, was considered the most prominent gentle fist technique. Neji never did anything on that level and there's no reason to assume he could have learnt it if he wanted to since it's already known that Neji strived to become stronger, not weaker. So claiming that he chose not to learn it sounds like an excuse to me.

I already talked about this. It's about as creative as a monkey punching things with a rock instead of its hands. Neji not doing anything on that level doesn't matter because it has nothing to do with BIQ to begin with.

We know that Neji wanted to become stronger but that doesn't mean that he wanted to learn TLF nor that he had the means to do so. Idk why both of you love to ignore that NEJI IS A SIDE BRANCH MEMBER AND THE TECHNIQUE IS A MAIN BRANCH EXCLUSIVE lol.

Just think about what you're saying please. The only person he could have seen it use (to learn it from that) would be Hinata and as far as we know she could has learnt it one day before the Pain Arc (while Neji was out of the village for a mission btw). So we need to assume Hinata learned it fast enough to show it to Neji.
Second of all we would have to assume their free time perfectly aligned to where they could train with it together.
Third of all, we would have to assume Neji would consider the technique worth the time investment (if it's going to take him months to learn just to deliver below average results it would be pointless).

This whole argument of "if he's so smart why didn't he learn every jutsu in existence" is ridiculous. By this logic, why didn't Hinata learn the rasengan from Naruto? Or the shadow clone jutsu? Is she less skilled and more stupid than kid Konohamaru? Exactly. She's not. The argument is just ass

 

[DavidTPPM]

Anyways, I don't want to talk about this anymore nor do I want us to clutter this thread on the same topic so if anyone still disagrees with Hinata having more BIQ than Neji, that's fine. I just need staff votes before creating the real Hyuga AP upgrades.

I agree.
What AP upgrades are you referring to btw? I know TL Hinata desperately needs to have her AP updated rn but idk about the other hyugas

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

0 evidence for what I asked, I take it as a concession. Either Neji > Hamura or Neji > Hyuga ≠ Hamura.

Or and hear me out Hamura>Neji as it its a fact.

I already addressed all of this. First of all, knowing the name doesn't mean he's "quite knowledgeable" on the technique. I know the name "string theory" but I don't know anything about it. Second of all, "came up with it" and "independently recreated" imply he either remade it from scratch or only really heard about it's existence and essentially invented it from that. Him explaining the technique to Tenten does mean he understood it extremely well, but since he had no way of gaining that knowledge from an outside source it would mean he simply found it all out himself. Lastly, there should be no scrolls (especially ones Neji has access to) as the technique is spread through the main branch by word.

Knowing the name implies he at least either saw it or heard about it.

I can explain this to you more in depth on discord if you want since I agree it's not super relevant to the main topic and it's pointless to spam this thread about it.

You are still completely missing the point of what's impressive about Neji mastering 64p and kaiten… also I straight up sent a scan calling Kaiten a high grade jutsu that even jonin couldn't perform. Please read my points before replying .

High grade for jutsu compared to any other jutsu is different from high grade among gentil fist. Jounins cant release chakra from all the tenketsu but for hyugas is not that hard because their techniques depend on it, so what jounins consider high level for hyuga is mid level difficulty.

I already talked about this. It's about as creative as a monkey punching things with a rock instead of its hands. Neji not doing anything on that level doesn't matter because it has nothing to do with BIQ to begin with.

And that monkey is concidered a genius among his monkey peers because he just invented a better way.

We know that Neji wanted to become stronger but that doesn't mean that he wanted to learn TLF nor that he had the means to do so. Idk why both of you love to ignore that NEJI IS A SIDE BRANCH MEMBER AND THE TECHNIQUE IS A MAIN BRANCH EXCLUSIVE lol.

Its funny that you ignore that whenever its convenient, "he cant learn because its a main branch thing" yet most of your argument falls on him learning an ability from the main branch without the main branch consent

Just think about what you're saying please. The only person he could have seen it use (to learn it from that) would be Hinata and as far as we know she could has learnt it one day before the Pain Arc (while Neji was out of the village for a mission btw). So we need to assume Hinata learned it fast enough to show it to Neji.

So now 2 years is "fast enought" or the other option is she learning an high level technique in a few days? Are you just siding on Hinata high intelligence or Neji?

Second of all we would have to assume their free time perfectly aligned to where they could train with it together.

We dont have to assume we know Neji was her mentor the databook state as much and manga also says it.

Third of all, we would have to assume Neji would consider the technique worth the time investment (if it's going to take him months to learn just to deliver below average results it would be pointless).

Why would Neji need anything else other than 64 palms since its "one shot"? I guess any other technique is useless and not worth his time, and why was it not worthy for neji but very powerful for Hinata?

This whole argument of "if he's so smart why didn't he learn every jutsu in existence" is ridiculous. By this logic, why didn't Hinata learn the rasengan from Naruto? Or the shadow clone jutsu? Is she less skilled and more stupid than kid Konohamaru? Exactly. She's not. The argument is just ass

Orochimaru's gola is learn every jutsu in existance he cant because he doesnt have the kekai genkais, and because he doesnt have enough time.
Chakra amount, remind you rasengan is a high level technique that needs high amount of chakra which Hinata didnt have considering even Kakashi cant keep it for long, the same with shadow clones. Will you argue Neji as having less chakra than Hinata?

 

[DavidTPPM]

Or and hear me out Hamura>Neji as it its a fact.

Knowing the name implies he at least either saw it or heard about it.

High grade for jutsu compared to any other jutsu is different from high grade among gentil fist. Jounins cant release chakra from all the tenketsu but for hyugas is not that hard because their techniques depend on it, so what jounins consider high level for hyuga is mid level difficulty.

And that monkey is concidered a genius among his monkey peers because he just invented a better way.

Its funny that you ignore that whenever its convenient, "he cant learn because its a main branch thing" yet most of your argument falls on him learning an ability from the main branch without the main branch consent

So now 2 years is "fast enought" or the other option is she learning an high level technique in a few days? Are you just siding on Hinata high intelligence or Neji?

We dont have to assume we know Neji was her mentor the databook state as much and manga also says it.

Why would Neji need anything else other than 64 palms since its "one shot"? I guess any other technique is useless and not worth his time, and why was it not worthy for neji but very powerful for Hinata?

Orochimaru's gola is learn every jutsu in existance he cant because he doesnt have the kekai genkais, and because he doesnt have enough time.
Chakra amount, remind you rasengan is a high level technique that needs high amount of chakra which Hinata didnt have considering even Kakashi cant keep it for long, the same with shadow clones. Will you argue Neji as having less chakra than Hinata?

All of this just to not give a single piece of evidence that Hamura is a Hyuga clan member or that Hamura is a greater genius than Neji . Cope and seethe bro

Hey they didn't actually specify it's the greatest genius in just the hyuga clan so Neji might as well be a bigger genius than everyone in the verse by the time of Sasuke Shinden as the statement only wouldn't apply to Kaguya (and Momoshiki+Kinshiki)

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

All of this just to not give a single piece of evidence that Hamura is a Hyuga clan member or that Hamura is a greater genius than Neji . Cope and seethe bro

Hey they didn't actually specify it's the greatest genius in just the hyuga clan so Neji might as well be a bigger genius than everyone in the verse by the time of Sasuke Shinden as the statement only wouldn't apply to Kaguya (and Momoshiki+Kinshiki)

Or and hear me out here Hamura is from the Hyuga clan

Then I'm guessing Shikamaru who actually has +200 IQ doesn't count

 

[DavidTPPM]

Or and hear me out here Hamura is from the Hyuga clan

"Hamura and his clan immigrated to the moon"
Naruto trivia for babies:
What clan lived on the moon with Hamura Otsutsiki?
A. The Otsutsiki clan
B. The Hyuga clan
C. The Sayian clan
(hint, they're the same clan as the one Toneri OTSUTSIKI belongs to)

 

[GrathOfLux]

"came up with it by himself"
"independently recreated it"

@DavidTPPM I ask you to refrain from mocking comments like these further into the discussion. Civil discussion and debate is an expectation for all users. Consider this an unofficial warning.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

"Hamura and his clan immigrated to the moon"
Naruto trivia for babies:
What clan lived on the moon with Hamura Otsutsiki?
A. The Otsutsiki clan
B. The Hyuga clan
C. The Sayian clan
(hint, they're the same clan as the one Toneri OTSUTSIKI belongs to)

And D. Both A and B. Since we know the Hyuga clan was created by Hamura and the ninja from the moon.
Indra was Otsutsuki yet he originated the Uchiha clan like how Hamura did for Hyuga. Except Hamura creates an army on the moon and fought each other. It's obvious at some point the Hyuga clan was created because some descendent of Hamura lost his last name through marriage. Hyuga is basically a sub family from the otsutski like Uchiha and senju.

 

[Suigetsuhyugs]

"Hamura and his clan immigrated to the moon"
Naruto trivia for babies:
What clan lived on the moon with Hamura Otsutsiki?
A. The Otsutsiki clan
B. The Hyuga clan
C. The Sayian clan
(hint, they're the same clan as the one Toneri OTSUTSIKI belongs to)

Also about him being the best genius of the world well Shikamaru was stated to be the smartest person on konoha so he can't be the best in the world.

 

[Tdjwo]

Ok I've been watching both of yall going with this for fr too long now. If you can't have the same opinion, that's fine. Stop bickering about this and let's move on damn. Y'all are cluttering my thread.

 

[Tdjwo]

@DavidTPPM I ask you to refrain from mocking comments like these further into the discussion. Civil discussion and debate is an expectation for all users. Consider this an unofficial warning.

Can you please give your thoughts about the crt?

 

[DavidTPPM]

I ask you to refrain from mocking comments like these further into the discussion. Civil discussion and debate is an expectation for all users. Consider this an unofficial warning.

Sure, no problem .

And D. Both A and B. Since we know the Hyuga clan was created by Hamura and the ninja from the moon.
Indra was Otsutsuki yet he originated the Uchiha clan like how Hamura did for Hyuga. Except Hamura creates an army on the moon and fought each other. It's obvious at some point the Hyuga clan was created because some descendent of Hamura lost his last name through marriage. Hyuga is basically a sub family from the otsutski like Uchiha and senju.

Just go write your own fanfictions and leaves this be pls. Creating a clan doesn't mean you belong to that clan (and you couldn't even prove it was specifically him who did so). This is like the 5th time you failed to prove he's officially a member of the Hyuga clan AND that he's a greater genius than Neji. This topic is done. You lost. Don't spam this thread, Tdjwo asked us to stop like 5 replies ago.

Also about him being the best genius of the world well Shikamaru was stated to be the smartest person on konoha so he can't be the best in the world.

Doesn't mean he's a greater genius in the context that Neji is a genius. Shikamaru is smart in general. Neji is mainly battle smart. I would also like to see that statement pre-Sasuke Shinden since I can't really remember a single time people called him the smartest by that point. The wiki doesn't saying anything like that either meaning if there's such a statement it would probably be good to add it to Shikamarus profile.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Either way, I won't be replying to the Neji BIQ topic anymore. It's not getting us anywhere.

I agree with the additions the CRT proposes in general, and I think potentially giving her AD should be discussed as well (might be a topic for a separate thread, idk)

 

[DavidTPPM]

Bump

 

[DavidTPPM]

Bump