Some Mega Man Classic Series Upgrades

[Chaos Jester25]

The main objective of this thread is to do a few minor High 5-A upgrades to some Classic Series characters. I also have a very possibly controversial 4-A or 3-A upgrade for a certain space bending robot master. Without further adieu, let's begin.

Torch Man and Dr. Wily’s Power Gear​

These two are probably going to be the simplest/least controversial of the 5 characters I want to upgrade. Rock’s Power Gear has already been accepted as a 10 times multiplier, which is where his current Post Stardroid Invasion High 5-A rating comes from. Torch Man and Wily both have access to the Power Gear and thus should also have their “higher with Power Gear" rating become “High 5-A with Power Gear ''. Pretty simple.

Upscaling Proto Man’s Big Bang Strike, and Bass’ Super Adaptor to High 5-A​

To start, the Classic Series cast is rated at Large Planet level, thanks to an 11.42 ninaton/ronnaton feat done by Duo.

Our Attack Potency page lists 16.512 ronnatons as baseline High 5-A. The Classic cast is currently only 1.44 times weaker than baseline High 5-A. I believe that this gap is small enough for the BBS & the SA to upscale. I’ll explain why I think these moves would be enough to get into High 5-A

Proto Man’s Big Bang Strike is the strongest move in his arsenal. It's an incredibly powerful attack but it uses up all of his energy. He uses it to destroy King’s Shield in Mega Man & Bass. King’s Shield was capable of easily blocking and deflecting multiple consecutive attacks from Rock & Bass. But Proto’s BBS was strong enough to break the shield in half. This move is clearly far stronger than what Proto is normally capable of and I think it warrants a High 5-A rating(especially since Proto isn’t even 2 times weaker than High 5-A normally).

Now for Bass. Bass’ Super Adaptor is a fusion between himself and Treble. Treble is a character who’s able to harm robot masters comparable to Bass. Meaning that it’s a fusion between two 5-A+ character. So I feel the fusion should be enough to get into High 5-A.

BBS does not scale to anyone else. Proto’s Big Bang Strike is his ultimate attack and nobody else should scale to it. Bass’ Super Adaptor could scale to Super Adaptor Rock thanks to the similar nature of their transformations. Despite their fight in MM8, Base Rock should not scale to Super Bass because Rock is normally on par with base form Bass, so the scaling chain would be circular if he was scaled to Super Bass

Astro Man​

I believe his AP section should say either “ 4-A with Pocket Dimension Creation" or "3-A with Pocket Dimension Creation" My reasoning for this is pretty simple. Astro Man creates an alternate dimension with a starry sky in his fight. This starry sky is not an illusion and was not created by the machine in the background. It was confirmed to be an alternate dimension made by Astro Man himself in his Robot Master Field Guide entry. There’s also his MegaMan & Bass CD Data that says that he can create Artificial universes. The manual for Mega Man & Bass says he does it with an Alternate Dimension Generator. It disappears when Astro is defeated, further proving it wasn’t created by the device in the background.This should not scale to anyone else for obvious reasons. It would be a huge outlier for the Classic Series characters.

That is all.

Agree: Migue79, Reploidnoridomix, LephyrTheRevanchist

Neutral: LephyrTheRevanchist (On the Astro Man stuff)

Disagrees: None at the moment

 

[It_is_i_wyatt]

Artificial universes.

4-A?

 

[Da_Lunge_Fish]

4-A?

I think Astro Man's feat should be at least galaxy since we saw actual galaxies in the background

 

[Rodri_"Dante"]

Rock states that once given his Super Adaptor enhancements, that Wily would be “history”. This implies that Rock would have been easily able to defeat Wily if he got the enhancements that Bass stole. Meaning, the enhancements likely give the user a big power boost. So I feel the fusion should be enough to get into High 5-A.

I just want to point out this piece of dialogue is made up by the localization.
Mega Man only says that "(...)when Dr. Light gets back, he’s going to power [Mega Man] and Rush up.", which is a bit more vague and could just refer to Light giving both of them new abilities.

 

[Migue79]

Alright… What do we have here? Another neat looking CRT?

Okay, so I agree with Torch Man and Dr. Wily getting High 5-A with DGS, since… you know, they also get it.

I also agree with Proto Man’s BBS being High 5-A with the reasons you have given… And Ngl, I also feel like Bass with Treble Boost should be High 5-A as well. After all, the boost’s blueprints were originally for Rock but Bass stole them, and given Wily built Bass around Rock’s data & combat abilities to essentially be his equal? I don’t really see why Treble Boost Bass shouldn’t be High 5-A (this might mean Rock might have to get a High 5-A rating with the Super Adaptor too since it’s probs the same nature).

On another note (before talking about Astro Man), does Bass have Evil Energy as Optional Equipment in his profile? I feel like that could be added due to him having had it in possession, especially since it was intended for Bass to have access to it in MM10, but was ultimately scrapped due to time constraints or some shit iirc

NOW… Onto Astro Man… HOO BOY, this fuckery. I find it weird how peeps say it’s MSS-Galaxy, when the thing’s called a universe. It would just straight up be 3-A (assuming the celestial bodies in the background are real). :/ Nevertheless, I agree that in the case that this wouldn’t scale to anyone: he creates this with a specific generator he has and not through sheer AP or abilities that are linked to AP, and there’s no proof he can weaponise the Alternate Dimension Generator. So it’s not meeting the requirements for scaling to AP/Dura as demanded in the Pocket Reality Page.

 

[Rodri_"Dante"]

On another note (before talking about Astro Man), does Bass have Evil Energy as Optional Equipment in his profile? I feel like that could be added due to him having had it in possession,

He doesn't have it and he should.

especially since it was intended for Bass to have access to it in MM10, but was ultimately scrapped due to time constraints or some shit iirc

The timeline where Duo sucks at his job.

 

[Migue79]

The timeline where Duo sucks at his job.

His radar device had a skill issue.

 

[AguilaR202]

Meh, even if it doesn’t scale to AP it sets precedent for pocket realities being 100% legit feats for the few times we see it later in the MMX /Zero / ZX timeline.

 

[Migue79]

Meh, even if it doesn’t scale to AP it sets precedent for pocket realities being 100% legit feats for the few times we see it later in the MMX /Zero / ZX timeline.

Yea, it does. But it also should not be the only thing to use when justifying their legitimacy & scaling.

Also, good thing the feats used don’t involve creation but instead use things like sustaining or destroying the celestial bodies themselves inside of the pocket dimensions (both of which are justifiable).

 

[TyranoDoom30]

Centaur Flash is stated to twist space through sheer power, so maybe we can get something out of it?

Also, considering X Era is supposed to be beyond anything in the Classic Era, couldn't they possibly scale to the Generator? (Considering the fact Mavericks like Cyber Peacock are stated to wanting to destroy a Network Space filled with galaxies)

 

[Chaos Jester25]

4-A?

I’m mostly just using 4-A as a lowball. I do think that 3-A could work as well.

I just want to point out this piece of dialogue is made up by the localization.
Mega Man only says that "(...)when Dr. Light gets back, he’s going to power [Mega Man] and Rush up.", which is a bit more vague and could just refer to Light giving both of them new abilities.

Thanks for pointing this out. I’ll remove this from the op.

I also feel like Bass with Treble Boost should be High 5-A as well. After all, the boost’s blueprints were originally for Rock but Bass stole them, and given Wily built Bass around Rock’s data & combat abilities to essentially be his equal? I don’t really see why Treble Boost Bass shouldn’t be High 5-A (this might mean Rock might have to get a High 5-A rating with the Super Adaptor too since it’s probs the same nature).

On another note (before talking about Astro Man), does Bass have Evil Energy as Optional Equipment in his profile? I feel like that could be added due to him having had it in possession, especially since it was intended for Bass to have access to it in MM10, but was ultimately scrapped due to time constraints or some shit iirc

I wouldn’t mind scaling Super Rock to Super Bass. Especially since the RM Field Guide states that Super Bass is weak to Super Rock’s rocket fist ( I’m away from home right now, so I can’t send the scan. I will send it later though).

The Evil Energy is probably worth noting. I guess Super Bass could become “High 5-A, higher with Evil Energy”.

Centaur Flash is stated to twist space through sheer power, so maybe we can get something out of it?

I don’t think it would really grant anything other than Spatial Manipulation.

 

[Migue79]

Centaur Flash is stated to twist space through sheer power, so maybe we can get something out of it?

It’s funny. There is some space-time distorting fuckery via AP in the franchise, just not via Centaur Flash (one of the JP books said that it twists space-time, and then high-frequency energy is generated). A funny example of this being an actual thing is the Wily Star’s Ion Cannon doing just that (I’ll provide sauce in a bit, I’m out rn).

 

[Chaos Jester25]

I just noticed that you edited your comment. I’m sorry for not responding to the second part, earlier.

Also, considering X Era is supposed to be beyond anything in the Classic Era, couldn't they possibly scale to the Generator? (Considering the fact Mavericks like Cyber Peacock are stated to wanting to destroy a Network Space filled with galaxies)

I don think that 3-A is consistent enough for us to scale it to the X series. Especially since every other pocket dimension feat in the Robot timeline had only ever been called at low end 4-B. And like Migue said, we’ve never seen the generator be weaponized so there’s no reason to scale it to AP anyway.

 

[TyranoDoom30]

Migue did said there's stuff involving space-time warp with AP which he would later provide, so it could get interesting

 

[Migue79]

I have been cooking a potential AP upgrade argument for X-Era to 4-A at least, but just like food in a cooking pot, it needs some time… It’ll come in due time!

 

[Migue79]

Anyways… as I promised!

Now… all technology is built for different purposes. So idk how one could just use this to say that Astro Man’s Alternate Dimension Generator would be AP upon a cursory glance. Tbh, use just this for Low 2-C Rock

 

[TyranoDoom30]

I got a different translation for Astro Man, which mentions no generator

 

[Migue79]

The 疑似空間 (giji-kūkan) probs means to say artificial space. It doesn’t make sense for it to be pseudo-space given... MM&B tells us that he can manipulate actual space. But I digress...

 

[TyranoDoom30]

Probably because it isn't natural.

 

[Chaos Jester25]

Bump

 

[TyranoDoom30]

I got a different translation for Astro Man, which mentions no generator

So what about this?

 

[Chaos Jester25]

So what about this?

Generator or no generator, I still son't think its consistent enough to be scaled to anyone else.

 

[TyranoDoom30]

Generator or no generator, I still don't think its consistent enough to be scaled to anyone else.

As we've seen, there's statements of distorting space (and time) wtih sheer power, and Cyber Peacock (Someone beyond Astro Man) is indeed stated to be capable of destroying a space filled with galaxies. That, and the fact there is no anti-feat, would mean this isn't inconsistent. Also, you can just argue that the space blows up with Astro Man's defeat and Rock survived it, which is oddly familiar. Also, since Astro Man's space is directly noted to be an entire universe, that means it's a manifold, which makes the distorting space time statements even more legit.

Just because a feat seems high from the average doesn't mean it's an outlier, otherwise we would've downgraded a bunch of characters a long time ago.

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Just because a feat seems high doesn't mean it's an outlier

While this is true, in-verse context may suggest certain statistics may not be as applicable as we may initially think. Not saying this is the case here, of course.

Can someone give me a summary of the current arguments explained to someone that has never delve into anything Megaman beyond the gameplay and music?

 

[AguilaR202]

Cyber peacocks intro in mmx4 says something about him living in cyberspace and that he wants to destroy the network system, unless there are some extra guides that verify he can go through with his own power I don’t think there is sufficient evidence for an upgrade, although since his stage is Cyberspace and we see galaxies in it, it might have some use for future feats involving it.

 

[TyranoDoom30]

Cyber peacocks intro in mmx4 says something about him living in cyberspace and that he wants to destroy the network system, unless there are some extra guides that verify he can go through with his own power I don’t think there is sufficient evidence for an upgrade,

I'm not saying it's legitmate, i'm saying that it's a supporting evidence (Like Ghidorah's planet destroying statements)

 

[Chaos Jester25]

Can someone give me a summary of the current arguments explained to someone that has never delve into anything Megaman beyond the gameplay and music?

Okay, so to start, Mega Man is a verse split into multiple subseries. The Classic Series (the most iconic one) is pretty consistently Large Planet level. There is a boss from the Classic Series who was said to create an alternate universe using his powers. I'm arguing that Astro Man(the Robot Master who did the feat) should be 3-A using his Pocket Reality Manipulation.

Later in the timeline, comes Mega Man X and the reploids. A new era which is known for having far superior technology than the previous era. Tyrano is arguing that because the tech is superior, the X era characters should be 3-A for being superior to Astro Man (The Robot Master with the 3-A feat). There is also another vague feat where a character stated that they would destroy the cyberworld(a place with multiple galaxies) but its not confirmed how he would do it. The feat is vague and it could be an overtime process.

The reason I'm skeptical is because we have no other clear feats in the timeline that get anywhere close to 3-A, The next best feats are low end 4-B.

 

[TyranoDoom30]

The reason I'm skeptical is because we have no other clear feats in the timeline that get anywhere close to 3-A, The next best feats are low end 4-B.

The problem is that the 4-B feats were all done extremely casually (Lumine just suddenly blows up the Sun, both him and the Hunters survives unnafected but his other attacks can harm the Hunters and Albert just declares he is a god, shatters his dimension and blows it up with his defeat)

 

[TyranoDoom30]

Also, while doing some digging, i found that X is hilariously outright stated to have limitless strength (Hmmmm why does this remind me of something? /hj). So uh, yeah.

 

[Migue79]

That and the vague Cyber Peacock & casual 4-B stuff are unfortunately still not enough to justify such a massive jump. At this point, they’d need an actual feat on that level.

Also, read your translation again: odd that their first sentence turned out like that. If one would say they came from another dimension, they’d say “異次元から” (ijigen kara) not what was actually written on the pic. And everytime I punch in “発生装置” (hassei souchi) on Google Images, I get images of electrical generators & shit.

Would probs be best to send the scan to the Translations Request Threads to see who’s right, I guess…

While this is true, in-verse context may suggest certain statistics may not be as applicable as we may initially think. Not saying this is the case here, of course.

Can someone give me a summary of the current arguments explained to someone that has never delve into anything Megaman beyond the gameplay and music?

Putting the Astro Man stuff aside, what do you make of the rest of the OP?

 

[TyranoDoom30]

Would probs be best to send the scan to the Translations Request Threads to see who’s right, I guess…

Makes sense

 

[LephyrTheRevanchist]

Putting the Astro Man stuff aside, what do you make of the rest of the OP?

I was searching our upscale standards, and found a bit of conflicting info. The tiering page suggests is a case-by-case basis, but on other threads I saw it being applied for a difference of x1.2

Seeing that here the difference is less than double and we got a fusion of two people with the rating, I suppose upscaling should be okay given the context.

The rest seems completely fine.

 

[Mr.Cinos15]

3-A scaling should probably be left for another thread (if it even needs a thread).

 

[TyranoDoom30]

3-A scaling should probably be left for another thread (if it even needs a thread).

Tbh, that would make more sense

 

[It_is_i_wyatt]

is there a possibly low 2-C for the 3-A?

 

[Migue79]

Naw. I think Low 2-C is for timelines & 4-D spaces that are infinitely larger than the Universe iirc, and Astro Man don’t got evidence for either.

 

[TyranoDoom30]

Naw. I think Low 2-C is for timelines & 4-D spaces that are larger than the Universe iirc, and Astro Man don’t got evidence for either.

Problem is, the universe is made of space and time according to physics.

 

[It_is_i_wyatt]

and just the assumption that an artificial universe would include space-time

 

[AguilaR202]

That’s not standard assumption and afaik Astro man’s dimension isn’t universe sized outright.

 

[TyranoDoom30]

and afaik Astro man’s dimension isn’t universe sized outright.

Then the feat isn't 3-A