Some big changes (Genshin Impact)

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

I feel like a possibly is more safe option for H6-A since Avenger noted on the discussion thread that it might be a flowery language

 

[TWILIGHT-OP]

AGREE FRA

 

[BoastJr]

High 6-A looks convincing to me

I think its looks more simpler and probably more easy to accept then the blackhole feat

Anyways I agree FRA minus the 5-A feat

 

[JohnHendrix212]

Yeah, I also agree with High 6-A, but if it is indeed flowery language (kinda), then Likely or Possibly High 6-A is fine.

5-A is just too iffy for me, however.

 

[Giannysmag]

I've mentoned to Aether in private that i have gripes with the black hole feat so i'm fine if people don't wanna use it.

As for Raiden's feat i think a possibly or likely High 6-A is better

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

We shall wait for Avenger to explain further on why "possibly or likely H6-A" is the best/safe option here

 

[Avengershows]

We shall wait for Avenger to explain further on why "possibly or likely H6-A" is the best/safe option here

Why the hell would I need to explain more and why is it dependant on me, I literally gave my reasoning here and y'all went with it.
A) it's inconsistent with other feats from Archons
B) it's narratively inconsistent, but that's subjective
C) in Chinese, it doesn't say 'turn day into night' but 'destroy the light of day' (approx. translation, not entirely sure what the best choice of words is), meaning that saying it means to turn the planet around is an entirely subjective choice
D) The phrase itself 'destroy the light of day' is very flowery, as is the entire text. The only really scalable part is the 'vaporize the oceans' part and that's entirely because it's very literal, but again, it's flowery language, so we can't just assume it to be true because yeah.
E) The entire battle was described as a battle of will, and is meant to be a mental thing, I don't know how applicable that is to actual physical stats anyway.

 

[Giannysmag]

Bump

 

[Aether2734]

And they also show traits that realistic black holes don't.

Perhaps can elaborate this? I am not expected the same issue with johnhendrix, i feel weird when you said this.
The entire fight of narwhall don't have cutscene to know it's effect are "realistic" Or "not realistic". What i am trying to calc is because there is exist description for this which canonly narwhall and shadow made one, not in gameplay where we use random character to break it by pneumaousia which you should be know it's not actually happen by default if you watch it. And it's description are fits for criteria according to three cgm who check it, infact the official name for this also called as "Lightless Maelstorm" which other fancy name to say a vortex that even light can't escape (even description say so) aka black hole. How do you jump to conclusions to say it's "not treat realistic" When it didn't even show it, while the description really implied it's black hole thing.

If then the "everything" is Fontaine, as it is only them who committed the original sin and have the special property that attracts the whale. Aka, not a star.

This wrong, it's blatantly treated as world fate not just fontaine, as neuvilette and later skirk statement, narwhall nature was a monster that traversed across stars and devouring it's all. But keep in mind i am not trying to upgrade him to star level because from what we know he takes long time to digest primordial sea which mean devouring stars are literal but overtime. It's doesn't really weird if he can make black hole by this.

 

[Aether2734]

Why the hell would I need to explain more and why is it dependant on me, I literally gave my reasoning here and y'all went with it.
A) it's inconsistent with other feats from Archons

It's come from archonless raiden, and i put the entire reason in op. Please note there's big gap between archon status and gods, you can take venti for example which only powerless human vessel and wind spirit without gnosis. Even raiden and nahida admit if gnosis carry big elemental energy.

B) it's narratively inconsistent, but that's subjective

Not really

C) in Chinese, it doesn't say 'turn day into night' but 'destroy the light of day' (approx. translation, not entirely sure what the best choice of words is), meaning that saying it means to turn the planet around is an entirely subjective choice

From what i get in deepL it's say "wipe out light day" Which still share same context with "change rotation of planet" To make disappear daylight into night. But wait, i am asking garrixianXD to translate this so perhaps we can wait for this.

D) The phrase itself 'destroy the light of day' is very flowery, as is the entire text. The only really scalable part is the 'vaporize the oceans' part and that's entirely because it's very literal, but again, it's flowery language, so we can't just assume it to be true because yeah.

E) The entire battle was described as a battle of will, and is meant to be a mental thing, I don't know how applicable that is to actual physical stats anyway.

I already address this in my blog, what they're literally talking is "Total Energy Output" It's can't be flowery words when they're literally talking about energy output, you should be know genshin always using fancy word. Also it's makes no sense when only "vaporize ocean" Are literal while next sentence are not. Plus the feats are not really happen, it's raidens talking if their energy output hypothetically can do what it's said which still scale.

 

[Avengershows]

From what i get in deepL it's say "wipe out light day"

I literally speak Chinese but ok. I'm not arguing with 'he said she said' translations, if you don't speak the language you don't.

archonless raiden

How is she archonless?

Which still share same context with "change rotation of planet"

No it doesn't.

It's can't be flowery words

Yes it can, a hyperbole can be added to 'the total energy output', there's absolutely nothing saying that it can't. Like genuinely what type of crack logic are you using for this reasoning.

you should be know genshin always using fancy word.

??? None of this is fancy wording.
I hate to be this person but when your English level is on the same as yours where syntactically your sentences become borderline confusing you shouldn't argue about semantics of anything scaling wise.

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Yeah this is why i ask Avenger to further explaining about his rebuttal here, OP will not take this easy

But overall i trusted more on Avenger judgement here as he's the most knowledgeable one here which can help Everything and DDM for evaluate this thread
How about you guys?

My final verdict here is disagree on the 5-A things that has been pointed out by the opposite users here, and agree on "H6-A" rating but with "possibly/likely" on it

 

[ZENZUYA]

5-A tiering due to the narwhal "blackhole" just isn't solid enough no matter how I see it.

The description in this in-game image just doesn't cut out for me, other than the image icon depicting it as closely resembling real-life blackhole. The following texts just likens it to a blackhole, and seemed to describe the general characteristics of a blackhole, rather than that particular blackhole. "The light can't escape from the vortex of darkness" line seems to refer to a real blackhole to me. I don't know if that's enough to warrant it being a real blackhole in this site's standards without corresponding feats, however.

This item description also doesn't refer to the blackhole. Everything in this is employed with copious amounts of flowery langauge, and the "destroy the fabric of the universe" line refers to the concept of discord itself, rather than anything relating to the blackhole. The description also mentions these threads as being physically entangled with your weapon whilst fighting the narwhal, so its definitely not any sort of part of a real blackhole.

It also strikes me as strange how it can be obtained physically by the traveler. I haven't played Genshin in a while and haven't gone through Fontaine yet. Is the blackhole used by the Narwhal even the same as this item? These descriptions seems to hint more that these items that you're trying to tie in with the Narwhal's blackhole seems more like physical objects that can be interacted with, and even picked up, physically as if they're tangible objects.

Overall, 5-A is just very suspect to me.

Well the black hole say smth that can absorb anything

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Well the black hole say smth that can absorb anything

Only that one wouldn't enough for us to be convinced

 

[Aether2734]

I literally speak Chinese but ok. I'm not arguing with 'he said she said' translations, if you don't speak the language you don't.

Sorry about that but I mean it's still need for formality due she was translation member. Your translastion suggestion also bit different than her.

How is she archonless?

Neither gods every nation currently have their gnosis except murata.

No it doesn't.

Then how do you expect "annihilation daylight" Could be? Destroying the daylight source the actual sun?

Yes it can, a hyperbole can be added to 'the total energy output', there's absolutely nothing saying that it can't.

How literally a reason energy output can translate to flowery word for sure? Seriously i feel even more weird if we're treating statement vaporize/overturn ocean only straight ap while the other one is not. If it was flowery words, it's should be both not only one to pick literal since the context was to both "the energy they exerted is great enough".

Like genuinely what type of crack logic are you using for this reasoning.

Energy output it's should be something that connected to AP and can't be a hax or something.

 

[Aether2734]

Only that one wouldn't enough for us to be convinced

It's not only that what it's criteria said, or cgm wouldn't accept it


I am also would give a note, even both of this nuked, they still scale to other tier 5 feats in op

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

It's not only that what it's criteria said, or cgm wouldn't accept it

I don't want to be sound like a d***head buy those CGM evaluated it way too early or careless tbh, yes even Executor as well

I am also would give a note, even both of this nuked, they still scale to other tier 5 feats in op

Which one? And majority has disagreed with the tier 5 so H6-A is your to go, and even so it will be a "possibly/likely" rating

 

[Aether2734]

Which is why it's the problem here, otherwise Bora Ra from Boboiboy will have tier 5 just because of the hole can suck/absorb anything

The narwhall made one was fits criteria though according to cgm atleast.

Which one? And majority has disgreed with the tier 5 so....

Not sure majority though, only johnhendrix and everything12 disagree and he not replying yet, while ddm not giving vote yet.

By default this make Archon massively scale above other gods like three sister of moon which being a literal moon, and atleast comparable to sovereign dragon like Neuvilette itself and apep who has the entire world as teyvat blueprint inside herself and prime azdaha as vishap overlord of old world who multiple time got state by reliable statement if he can shake and split earth

• Apep as sovereign dragon having a pocket dimension entire world inside herself
• azdaha tremble earth
• goddess sister of moon being literal moon

 

[Giannysmag]

• Apep as sovereign dragon having a pocket dimension entire world inside herself

That's just pocket dimension creation aka hax. There's no reason to assume it scales to her AP

• azdaha tremble earth

I'm obviously not a cgm so take this with a grain of salt, but i'm pretty sure you can only use Total Seismic Energy when measuring natural earthquakes and using the radiated waves it ends up at only High 6-A. You are also assuming that the Magnitute at distance (this particular distance being the other side of the planet) is Magnitute 8 which is pretty hard to justify imo

• goddess sister of moon being literal moon

This wouldn't really scale to anyone aside from the moon sisters themselves and the Primordial one. In the OP you brought up how the archons are the strongest gods in every nation thus scaling them above the moon sisters, but the moon sisters aren't really part of any nation on account of them being ... you know the moon

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

The narwhall made one was fits criteria though according to cgm atleast.

Hence why i said it above that those CGM were evaluated it way quick or careless without dwelling more on it

 

[Aether2734]

That's just pocket dimension creation aka hax. There's no reason to assume it scales to her AP

Pocket dimension can translate to ap too if it was reasonable also oftenly used to upscale the character ap. Infact it was part of her body

I'm obviously not a cgm so take this with a grain of salt, but i'm pretty sure you can only use Total Seismic Energy when measuring natural earthquakes and using the radiated waves it ends up at only High 6-A.

Seismic energy only for natural earthquake, there's no possible way to use total seismic energy for artificial quake, even if you can manipulate planet plate structure.

You are also assuming that the Magnitute at distance ( this particular distance being the other side of the Plane) is Magnitute 8 which is pretty hard to justify imo

Already address this, but one of cgm said this kind feat just need linked the previous accepted calc.

This wouldn't really scale to anyone aside from the moon sisters themselves and the Primordial one. In the OP you brought up how the archons are the strongest gods in every nation thus scaling them above the moon sisters, but the moon sisters aren't really part of any nation on account of them being ... you know moons

The whole point of gnosis was to made archon atleast having same power as sovereign dragon, cause it's carry sovereign dragon power itself. As far we aware the sovereign dragon are still supreme being literally above the rest of gods not only nation, aside primordial one. Which mean still scale.

 

[Giannysmag]

Pocket dimension can translate to ap too if it was reasonable also oftenly used to upscale the character ap. Infact it was part of her body

Only works if the series has UES iirc, which genshin doesn't. Also given Apep is not as large all of Teyvat i don't think the scond point really maters

Seismic energy only for natural earthquake, there's no possible way to use total seismic energy for artificial quake, even if you can manipulate planet plate structure.

Which proves my point, since Azdhaha's quakes are artificial ones

Already address this, but one of cgm said this kind feat just need linked the previous accepted calc.

Aight then the Azdhaha statements can act as support for High 6-A

The whole point of gnosis was to made archon atleast having same power as sovereign dragon, cause it's carry sovereign dragon power itself.

Gnosis vary in power so this wouldn't apply to the archons

As far we aware the sovereign dragon are still supreme being literally above the rest of gods not only nation, aside primordial one. Which mean still scale.

Dragon Neuvillette would be the only person that would scale to then. Aguess some thing like "6-C possibly High 6-A" for his base and "At least 6-C possibly 5-C" for his dragon form could work

 

[Aether2734]

Also given Apep is not as large all of Teyvat i don't think the scond point really maters

There's actually statement if there is big void within entire world inside apep

Which proves my point, since Azdhaha's quakes are artificial ones

Aight then the Azdhaha statements can act as support for High 6-A

Can't really understand this, my calc and the calc linked was not using total seismic, also the result not H6A though

Gnosis vary in power so this wouldn't apply to the archons

Uhhh.... I am sure it's apply to the archons, the variety was only in how to use it like zhongli to create mora, rukkhadevata use it to create akasha, raiden wanted to use it as energy supply but cancel. By narrative the entire archons also was fighting rhinnedotr in cataclysm which part of hexenzirkel that was implied by skirk and treated neuvilette as "equal" to her and surtalogi.

Dragon Neuvillette would be the only person that would scale to then. Aguess some thing like "6-C possibly High 6-A" for his base and "At least 6-C possibly 5-C" for his dragon form could work

....
Wasn't the possibly rating you guys purpose only in raiden calc

 

[Spinoirr]

Anyways someone get some mods in here

 

[Giannysmag]

There's actually statement if there is big void within entire world inside apep

Once again that's pocket reality hax, it wouldn't scale to her physical body

Can't really understand this, my calc and the calc linked was not using total seismic, also the result not H6A though

Nevermind i missinterperted something in your blog. Still the Low 5-B rating for Radiated waves is for Mag 10 while you said you were using Mag 8 which is High 6-A

Uhhh.... I am sure it's apply to the archons, the variety was only in how to use it like zhongli to create mora, rukkhadevata use it to create akasha, raiden wanted to use it as energy supply but cancel. By narrative the entire archons also was fighting rhinnedotr in cataclysm which part of hexenzirkel that was implied by skirk and treated neuvilette as "equal" to her and surtalogi.

No both Venti and Nahida blatently sate that the power archons get from their Gnosis is based on the faith their people have in them

....
Wasn't the possibly rating you guys purpose only in raiden calc

Well my idea was that Dragon Neuvillette scales far above anyone else in we've seen in the verse anyway so his base is possibly High 6-A based on Raiden's feat while his full dragon self is possibly 5-C scaling from the moon sisters and upscaling massively from Raiden's feat

 

[Avengershows]

bit different than her.

All of those are synonyms.

 

[JohnHendrix212]

The proposed feats here are the Raiden High 6-A, and the Black Hole one.

We agreed on a possibly High 6-A for the Raiden statement, while we disagree with the Black Hole.

Create another CRT for these other tier 5 feats you're mentioning after this one is done. Don't stray from the current topic.

 

[Giannysmag]

The proposed feats here are the Raiden High 6-A, and the Black Hole one.

We agreed on a possibly High 6-A for the Raiden statement, while we disagree with the Black Hole.

Create another CRT for these other tier 5 feats you're mentioning after this one is done. Don't stray from the current topic.

In Aether's defense the feats he mentioned were also brought up in the OP as support

 

[JohnHendrix212]

In Aether's defense the feats he mentioned were also brought up in the OP as support

They were? My bad then.

I only read the main ones.

 

[Giannysmag]

Bump

 

[Vzearr]

Agree with the OP.

 

[Giannysmag]

Bump

 

[Spinoirr]

We need the mods back

 

[JPro_3002]

Bump

 

[Kisaragi_Megumi]

Did you guys already recalled Qawsed and Medeus to come back here on their Walls? And no, don't relying on me as i'm a bit busy atm

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Why not 5-A?

Let Genshin have inflated tier lol.

 

[Spinoirr]

Bump

 

[Smashtwig]

Bump

 

[DAGE9]

Will the top 3 harbingers stay as below Kami until we get actual feats for them?

 

[Avengershows]

Who the **** is Kami